Proxies, How Legal?

[Mr. Pickles]

I was wondering how legal proxies are now that GW does not support tournaments. How much leeway will TOs give under the current circumstances? I know it depends on each individual case, but it would be nice to see the organized 40k scene let in wysiwyg proxy conversions.

Pig Iron Productions has some amazing newer stuff and they only get better with each new set. If people started to use proxies from PIP or Warpath then GW might start feeling the heat. There are cheaper alternatives out there, and other companies are catching up with the flagship of the miniatures industry in terms of quality.

So, how far can I go, how far do you think it will go, and how far should it go in your opinion?

[Wolfshade]

A lot depends on what you mean by proxys.
There are proxys as in that can of pop over there is my dreadnought, and there are that guy with a flamer is actually a guy with a meltagun.
Most TOs will say that the models you have must be WYSIWYG, using suitably sized 3rd part models and converting them to have the correct armament is another thing.
My opinion on this sort of thing is that GW built the game, they made the rules, therefore it is only right that they should expect us to use their models, and lets face it most of them look fantastic!

[Chaoschrist]

With that I wonder; would anyone run a tournament for the gameplay (and as such use of the ruleset GW provides) or does one run a tournament that has to be of GW aesthetic? I mean, if you're running competition it's all about the rules and how the game is played, not if you have those exact models provided in the rules.

As long as one has models that function (in design, size, loadout), like the ones provided in the ruleset. I wouldn't see a problem in general. As long as it's clear what represents what clearly.

On the other hand; if it's only gameplay (in tournaments), why even bother having proxies around?

Personally, I like themed armies, even if it's a totally converted army (like; pre-heresy Thousand sons as Grey knights or so, or an Ad-mech army as IG)... but how much of a proxy is this? And to add to the argument; what if I use GW models (and GW bits) to convert an army. Or even have only a different paint job that would correspond with a different army (For instance; if I like red, I paint my vanilla marines as Blood angels; but still play them as Vanilla marines).

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

In answer to this I post a comic. DAMN PROXIES (http://www.wobblymodelsyndrome.com/comic-8.html)

[sangrail777]

Tzeentch's Dark Agent that comic is awesome!

[dannyat2460]

how most people play it it has to look like what its suposed to be so convert it to atleast have the same weapons, size, fire arks ext my local GW staff also say it should be 70% GW product but who listens to them anymore anyway lol

[Tynskel]

This is clearly a case by case event.

Ask the TO. Pretty simple.

[RGilbert26]

Im generally of the opinion that proxies are ok as long as it isnt something silly. Once played a big game at a local GW store and a kid said "This ork biker is Waz Dakka". We looked at the model and it had no guns, no arms and no head and told him that at best it's a Warboss on a bike with a slugga and choppa.

[Tynskel]

A friend n' I made a thunderhawk outta styrofoam. We attached model airplane missiles to it, drew doors with a sharpy, and painted it in rainbow colours. It was for an apocalypse game.
On board was an honor squad, Captain Tycho, 2 Squads of Marines, a Chaplain, a librarian in terminator armor w/ Storm Shield, and a sanguinary priest. Meltas all over the place. The squads were all Combat Squads to maximize their tactical ability.

In the last shooting/assault phase of the game, the Thunderhawk and the marines disembarked and unloaded on an armored company claiming an objective. The 10 Leman Russ didn't stand a chance.

What was really awesome, though, was because it was styrofoam, you could do things no one in their right mind would do with a model. We were the only group to have a flyer (out of 30 people). No one brought any standard AA guns (because pintle mount doesn't do squat to a Thunderhawk). So, the turn the Thunderhawk arrived, we ran around the entire hall with the thunderhawk, stating that the Battle Barge 'Songs of Sanguinius' had arrived, and reinforcements were coming. Placed in on the board behind a Warlord titan (within the void shields), and outflanked a Ancients Assaults Force. The Warlord was dead in the second round of assault (hurray for immobilized dreads with twin Blood Fists).

The TO loved it.
The leman russ guy was pissed.

Come on. Marines are supposed to be amazing, and quite frankly, 10 Leman Russesssessess being killed before they have a chance to fire back at the target is Epic!

If you haven't played Apocalypse, you should. That's where proxies really come out, because people make all sorts of crazy things for Apoc. I have seen a reaver sized Tau Battle suit. Looked like something outta Macross–covered in burst cannons, missile pods, and marker lights. I have also seen a multiple chassied devilfish super heavy tank. Main turret was a Twin-Linked hv railgun. The 'defense' weapons were a series of ion cannons.

[inquisitorsog]

A friend n' I made a thunderhawk outta styrofoam. We attached model airplane missiles to it, drew doors with a sharpy, and painted it in rainbow colours. It was for an apocalypse game.
That comes down to what Wolfshade said "it depends on what you mean by proxy".
When I hear "proxy", I think "using something totally wrong to represent something else".

A styrofoam thawk, no matter how quickly or badly done, if recognizable at least as an attempt at a thawk, wouldn't be a proxy to me. Even paper minis wouldn't be proxies to me. They're just not 3d models.