Space Marine physiology

[Deltagreen]

Hello all,

Forgive me for posting this here, I am new to the BoLS forums but I was wondering if you could answer me a question (if it has already been previously answered please could you direct me to the relevant thread).

My question is this:

Given that Space Marine scouts are initiates, neophytes or whatever their chapter refers to them as, what are the pysiological differences between them and their full blown battle brothers?. I appreciate that they have not had all the implants, etc., therefore, what is missing? Can anyone advise?

Many thanks,

Deltagreen

:confused:

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

In many cases they lack the under-skin implant the Black Carapace, which allows a Space Marine to interface with his Power Armour. Space Wolves give their recruits all implants immediately, though.

It's sometimes implied that they're missing other implants - judging by their S4/T4, though, they definitely have Stage 5 and earlier implants (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#.T8o6zD5YshB).

And this is totally the right place to post a question like this, don't worry!

[Black Hydra]

Actually they do have the Black Carapace. It just hasn't developed enough to be able to interface with power armor yet. Space Wolves have scouts but for some reason they are actually veterans and not initiates since they are elites. Black Templar just don't care for subtlety and put PA on their initiates. Honestly I think that's a funny but efficient approach. They are arguably one of the most successful chapters after all, Matt Ward's opinion on them not withstanding.

[Kawauso]

Black Templar just don't care for subtlety and put PA on their initiates..

I think you're thinking of Space Wolves, there (Blood Claws, the new recruits, get power armour right off the bat; they do have to go through some crazy stuff while they're getting all the implants though).

Initiates in the BT army are the guys who have graduated from scout to full marine. Neophytes are the new recruits, and they're scouts with carapace armour and all that.

[Black Hydra]

But Black Templar don't have scouts. They put their neophytes (sorry not initiates) into power armor right off the back and they are apprenticed to a battle brother.

I forgot about the Blood Claws but aren't those initiates not neophytes?

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

But Black Templar don't have scouts. They put their neophytes (sorry not initiates) into power armor right off the back and they are apprenticed to a battle brother.

I forgot about the Blood Claws but aren't those initiates not neophytes?Blood Claws are the Space Wolf equivalent of a Scout-in-training, in Power Armour. No idea how they line up with Neophyte/Initiate. Space Wolves tend to throw all the organs in at once, I believe, part of the Canis Helix shenanigans.

Black Templar Neophytes are apprenticed to an Initiate, but they only wear Scout Armour, not Power Armour.

Fairly sure Scouts don't necessarily have all the organs implanted, but will need to find the source for that.

[Deltagreen]

Hi and thanks for all the info so far.

So a question or two leading on from my last...

Scouts within a standard chapter (Ultramarines, Iron Fists, Blood Ravens, etc, or even a bog standard vanilla chapter) what would they be likely to be short of in implants then? According to http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Gene-Seed it implies that all gene seeds are implanted at around abut the same time in a space marine's "birth" with the exception of the black carapace and the sus-an membrane. Does anyone else have anything on this? Evidence certainly points to socuts being fitted with everything bar the black carapace at around age 18/19 and then spending time as a scout until they have proved themselves. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this.

Many thanks,

Deltagreen

:D

[The AKH]

The Lexicanum article (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine#.T8vEfrBfF95) on the creation of a Space Marine suggests that the implants are done in stages, two or three at a time, between the ages of ten and nineteen. Therefore a Scout squad in the field might have members in different stages of the implantation process? The article also brings up the subject of indoctrination; a Scout at that stage in his career might have the requisite implants, but not the mental training or self-awareness to draw upon them properly.

I would guess that once the Black Carapace is fully active, a Scout's transition to power armour would be fairly quick. Even if they display particular aptitude for more "scout-esque" skills, that probably just earmarks them for a job as a scout sergeant somewhere down the line. Chapters probably can't afford to have too many neophytes loitering in the Tenth Company, especially if they're on a particularly grueling campaign.

[Wildeybeast]

I'm not sure on what organs are missing and such like, but something worth considering is the transition point from scout to battle brother. As far as I'm aware it is dependent on conduct in the field rather than physical concerns. As such I would assume marines who have been scouts for a while have all the necessary physical adaptations and are simply honing their skills. Maybe when that first start out as scouts they don't have everything, but one near the end of their training would surely have everything a normal marine does?

[Deltagreen]

Thank you all so far for the replies. They have been very informative and have allowed me to get my head around some ideas for the fluff for my army list.

It may be going a little overboard here, but as I am still on the subject of scouts, does anyone know anything about the sniper rifle that they use? Is it a las rifle or is it a modified bolter weapon? Does anyone know of any fluff surrounding it? There's plenty of fluff on bolt guns but the rifle appears to have virtually nothing on it? does anyone know who the manufacturer is? Is it similar in design to an IG long las? Any input you may have will be most appreciated.

Thank you kindly,

Deltagreen

:D

[The AKH]

I read in a WD Index Astartes article that the Scout sniper rifles use a high-powered but highly focused laser to punch holes in enemy armour, but the killing power comes from a crystallized toxic dart. Essentially, against hard targets, the laser punches a small hole for the 'dart' to zip through.

In contrast, the long las is a powered-up lasrifle that fires more powerful laser bolts, delivering a presumably kinetic and thermal payload.

So, in short, it is neither a las nor a bolt weapon (it does not fire solid/mass-reactive rounds, and the stopping power is not las-based).

[Wildeybeast]

Further to my last post, I've just checked the fluff in the codex and it says that the scout training process is about learning the art of war and getting used to the biological enhancements. To me that suggests they have everything they need physiologically and are just getting trained up to the standards of normal marines. Sadly nothing informative about the sniper rifle.

[inquisitorsog]

Further to my last post, I've just checked the fluff in the codex and it says that the scout training process is about learning the art of war and getting used to the biological enhancements. To me that suggests they have everything they need physiologically and are just getting trained up to the standards of normal marines. Sadly nothing informative about the sniper rifle.

What he said.

That's also the view in the Sons of Dorn novel as I recall. The three protagonists are physically ready, but not seasoned in combat yet. As scouts, they are expected to be able to get a taste of battle without drinking the whole cup.

[Wildeybeast]

What he said.

That's also the view in the Sons of Dorn novel as I recall. The three protagonists are physically ready, but not seasoned in combat yet. As scouts, they are expected to be able to get a taste of battle without drinking the whole cup.

Same with the Raven Guard in Helion Rain. After fighting their way through waves of bugs, a genestelaer brood and a massive Trygon/Mawloc (I forget which) the surviving scouts get told they are now full Space Marines)