GW digital products

[Houghten]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=22200010a

So it seems GW are making available a number of gaming resources - such as Codex: Space Marines and some Scrolls of Binding - but only if you have an iPad.

My first thought: DAMNIT GW! I neither have nor want an iPad - indeed I want nothing to do with Apple and their "bend over and grease up" customer policy.

My second thought: Day was, those Scrolls of Binding would have been free PDFs on the website.

[robrodgers46]

I read this on my iPad.

r

[Bracchus]

Hope they do something similar for Android and Windows ARM systems :)

[Father]

I'm mindboggled that GW actually caught on that they could do that.

[wittdooley]

I typed this on my iPad. It is glorious. You're missing out.

[gendoikari87]

I typed this on my iPad. It is glorious. You're missing out.

WTF is the point to an iPad? It seems like it's a cross between a smart phone and a lap top while doing neither job well.

[The AKH]

WTF is the point to an iPad? It seems like it's a cross between a smart phone and a lap top while doing neither job well.

The touchscreen is kind of nifty. That's... about it.

[sergentzimm]

As usual a little too little, a little too late. Ipad only? Yeah ignore the market potential of the android platform and its numbers which are starting to dwarf the ipad... Guess I will just pirate the copy to use on my android instead. smart move.

[faolan]

Hrm, in the gaming community around here, we have a few iPads and a metric crapton of Androids and ARMs.

Way to dick yourself, GW.

[Brandoncbaker]

Ahhh .. I pads rock,don't hate. I use mine for all type of gaming goodness. Quartermaster is awesome, I keep all kind of codexs and rule books in my I Book app in PDF form. It's all I bring when I visit my gaming location.GW needed to do this release,because all there books are available for free via shareware sites,may as well try and get a little back

[Kawauso]

Nice of GW to be doing this, but damn they're slow when it comes to technology.

[Brakkart]

Nice of GW to be doing this, but damn they're slow when it comes to technology.

Very true. They are... which really doesn't bode well for 3D printing and their response too it.

[wittdooley]

WTF is the point to an iPad? It seems like it's a cross between a smart phone and a lap top while doing neither job well.

You mean besides:

Mobile web browsing
Mobile movie watching
PDF storage and viewing
Video Conferencing
Mobile presentations
Mobile Boardgaming

I could go on.

We use ours all the time. My boss uses his almost exclusively for his business interactions.

Also:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/256625/apples_ipad_will_be_more_popular_than_pcs_in_2020. html

I'd wager this is also a primary reason to go with iOS first as it is already has a deeper market penetration for tablets.

[Kawauso]

Very true. They are... which really doesn't bode well for 3D printing and their response too it.

I'm not sure they need to have a response to that.

It's no different from people sculpting things out of green stuff and creating resin or pewter casts based off of those.

3D modeling is sculpting in a fancy digital suit. It takes just as much skill and isn't any more accessible to the average person. Less, actually. All you need to do traditional sculpting is putty and some simple tools.

[sergentzimm]

I'm not sure they need to have a response to that.

It's no different from people sculpting things out of green stuff and creating resin or pewter casts based off of those.

3D modeling is sculpting in a fancy digital suit. It takes just as much skill and isn't any more accessible to the average person. Less, actually. All you need to do traditional sculpting is putty and some simple tools.

Give it a few years and the 3d printers will make an impact. Once it becomes hard to distinguish the models, they will be in for trouble. It's already bad enough with replicating finecast, once someone can replicate plastics it will get ugly.

Their diss on the Android market shows they are not able to adapt. Look at the numbers and its clear there are more potential customers in the Android market. At least give us an option in there. I want to pay for this, hell even on top of the paper book. Not giving me the option because I don't have an Ipad... bad business.

[Kawauso]

Give it a few years and the 3d printers will make an impact. Once it becomes hard to distinguish the models, they will be in for trouble. It's already bad enough with replicating finecast, once someone can replicate plastics it will get ugly.


Um, again, people can already do that. Without 3D printing.

People do already do that. There's an infamous company in China that sells knockoffs of GW and FW bitz and full kits. I've heard their stuff is pretty good, too, in terms of the detail. And they -don't- use 3D printing, from what I can tell, because it's actually pretty far behind in terms of quality compared to knock-offs or original sculpts you can make the old-fashioned way.

And again, even when it catches up, 3D printing I think is going to be a lot less useful than people seem to think it's going to be.

[Gotthammer]

Also:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/256625/apples_ipad_will_be_more_popular_than_pcs_in_2020. html

I'd wager this is also a primary reason to go with iOS first as it is already has a deeper market penetration for tablets.

A bigger reason for this is iOS is better to deal with and has a better toolset - I've got a mate who had to make an App for his company and Apple's tools were a dream to work with and no problem. Android was nowhere near as smooth, and I've heard this from a number of programmer friends.

Edit: while I can see the use on an iPad, I don't have one so won't be buying any downloads. If they were viewable on my lappy, that'd be a different matter.

[eldargal]

I see your 'too little too late' and raise you a 'better late then never'. Seriously, this just goes to show that no matter what GW does people will never be pleased. They don't include rules in WD, that is terrible, they include rules in WD, the rules aren't good enough or there aren't enough of then, they include painting tutorials and they aren't the right sort of painting tutorial, the include terrain guides they aren't in depth enough. Now they go digital which has been one of the number one demands of the online playerbase and what is the result? Whining. Is it any wonder GW love their 'f*** you' approach to customer relations.:rolleyes:

As usual a little too little, a little too late. Ipad only? Yeah ignore the market potential of the android platform and its numbers which are starting to dwarf the ipad... Guess I will just pirate the copy to use on my android instead. smart move.

I actually have no interest in digital codices and whatnot, though if the scrolls of binding and various other rules are digital exclusive (which I believe they are) I may have to find some way of getting hold of them. Can you print from an iPad?

[robrodgers46]

Apple seems to be a company people love or hate. Rarely does someone have a neutral opinion. Hmmm, remind you of another company?

Wait about 3 weeks, when the new iOS version comes out, decoupling the iPad from iTunes. Then not only will the hardware be vastly superior, the software will be too.

r

(typed on my beloved iPad, Julie.)

[pgarfunkle]

Eldargal you took the words out of my mouth! People on have whined and b*tched on this forum about the lack of digital army books Now we get them and still the whining!

When I saw the blog this morning I thought how long did I sleep is it April fools already? But this is awesome and what people have to remember before they jump on the "GW screw you, you haven't catered to my specific taste/platform" bandwagon is this is GW just starting to do digital gaming books. They've picked probably the most globally recognised platform and produced a selection of products, apparently with extra content no less!

Where do they go from here? Maybe android and windows platforms etc. If there is sufficient demand for it why not?

[Houghten]

I'll get off the "damnit why iPads?" wagon if the stuff becomes available on a platform that doesn't cost twice as much as its competitors. Not hoping it might.

[eldargal]

It makes more sense for GW to establish their digital stuff on the dominant service first, but there is no reason to assume it won't be available on android and whatnot if it goes well.

[AnEnemy]

This doesn't effect me as a SWs and DE player, but I do appreciate GW trying new things. Especially, when fans have been asking them to do something like this for a while.

BUT...

The blanket of secrecy that GW clings too is really self destructive.

[Denzark]

Of course Mark Wells has done this just to upset all the Android users.

By the way, do you dream of electric sheep whilst considering GW has done this to personally 'Diss' you?

I can't believe someone actually used the word 'Diss'

Are you going to get all East coast West coast and pop a cap in their arse? Or possibly get Mediaeval on their arse with a pair of pliers and a blow torch?

What a bunch of nay-sayers.

Its a step in the right direction and you just drip like a f*cked tap.

Some people are never happy.

[apahllo]

this is awesome. such a clever thing to do. strait genius. i think it will be on android soon as well.

this and the flyers gives me huge hopes for the epicness of 6th edition. if it goes digital...:rolleyes:



and for those ipad haters. its awesome. such a useful tool and makes internet browsing so easy!!

[UltramarineFan]

It's sad it's only available on iPad true but from looking at the video they have done an excellent job with transferring codex:SM to digital form. They haven't just copied it page by page, they've actually added useful intereface (eg, when they're looking at the bestiary entry for the dreadnought and you can press on 'dreadnought close combat weapon' and it gives you the details of what that is as you would find it in the wargear section)

[Deadlift]

Has anyone noticed that the hard copy of the space marines codex is £20 but the digital one is £25.
I dont disagree with most of GWs prices but this is a bit backward to me.

[eldargal]

One assumes it is because 6th will bring hardcover codices at five pounds more, though someone on Warseer said they heard theer won't be a switch to hardcover with 6th. I find it bit hard to believe personally.

[DrLove42]

Was considering getting a Kindle Fire when they came out, but might have to save for an Ipad now....

[Diagnosis Ninja]

>GW Goes digital.
HOLY ****, REALLY?
>£24.99
Lol, there's me never buying a Codex through that medium.

[morninson]

Not sure what to think of this, am sure will come to android eventually. A lot of companies produce content for iPad or android first, and then roll it out to other platforms later. The thing that gets me is that if you already own the codex you have to pay £25 for the digital version.

I don't play, but paint the miniatures and read the fluff like it's going out of fashion. I have all the current codices and a number of the older now defunct ones, you should be able to take your copy into the store and request a voucher that gives you the right to buy for 2.99 or something. They look great, just not sure at all that the price is worth the 'extra content'. Handy for FAQ and new unit updates, am assuming they could be updated like an app update?

I only generally buy paper books, and I still buy CD's. I wouldn't buy the mp3 version if I already have the album...

[MarneusCalgar]

Very good news...

Finally, GW enters the age of technology...

The lack is that not everyone has an iPad (and they´re not cheap), but seem the prices won´t be very expensive

[Captainparty]

If you don't have an iPad, they still make the physical books. It's a cool concept and apple actively support developers with the tools to easily make books like this as well has owning the vast majority of the tablet market, it's a perfectly reasonable business decision, if it works well enough they could make them as android apps

[westside]

GW's site states the Apple deal is 'exclusive'.

Considering Apples recent collusion with book publishers and their cell phone distribution schemes it is easy to conclude we won't be seeing non pirated copies on other formats anytime soon.

[eldargal]

It is exclusive, but it doesn't mean it will always remain so.

[westside]

I did just read on GW Facebook page, GW stating, "Android users, please be patient, we hear and respect your comments".

So hopefully, "exclusive", isn't contractual, but rather just lazy and unaware.

[pgarfunkle]

I notice that you need iBooks2 which is the interactive version of iBooks. Is similar software available on other platforms? Could this be something which GW is waiting for on other platforms if not currently available now?

[miksaa]

I applaud this, but I do not understand why GW went all Apple iOS exclusive.

The best way would be to do a PDF version that would be usable on all platforms, granted it could take more effort and cost some more at least that would open up a larger market.

The only real reason would be to have more protection for the digital copy, as Apple has a tighter security on how you can spread the digital copies around. This is also one thing that is annoying with the “iProducts”.

And as for iOS vs. Android; Apple have a great product but there are things lacking like Flash and other things that I want/need in my life. So I would not buy an iPad, as it doesn't cater to all my needs and I find the lack of freedom in how I arrange my music and digital media on my computers frustrating.

Well as someone put it: As it is not available for my hardware, at least I will save 25£…

[DrLove42]

I agree a more generic pdf would have made more sense. If its for piracy concerns, its not like there arent pdfs of all the codexes out there already anyway.

Maybe its for some interactiveness we havent seen yet. How hard would it be to have an app that built army lists and linked to a version of the dex on the pad? click units to add them, select wargear, have an army list that you can click on and it fast jumps to the stats and rules?

[Gir]

Guess I'll have to stick with my current plan of PDF's on a Windows 8 tablet.

[flekkzo]

I agree a more generic pdf would have made more sense. If its for piracy concerns, its not like there arent pdfs of all the codexes out there already anyway.

Maybe its for some interactiveness we havent seen yet. How hard would it be to have an app that built army lists and linked to a version of the dex on the pad? click units to add them, select wargear, have an army list that you can click on and it fast jumps to the stats and rules?

It's more than a carbon copy of the dex. It's made using Apple's authoring software (free) to get all the fancy interactivity features. The output of this app is exclusively sold in Apple's book store. There is nothing stopping GW from taking their original copyrighted material and transform it in some other way and sell it.

This digital dex is nothing short of sci fi. For those of you that are young let me remind you that this would have been impossible ten years ago (and I was working with the top of the line prototype smartphones of that era). This is mindblowing type of stuff. This is what Star Trek almost had in their shows.

I personally is happy that GW went with a high quality product (I downloaded the sample and it looks great. Now I just need an iPad of my own) rather than a cheap PDF (which would have taken then two minutes to make).

Also, I hope they incorporated the errata and included the FAQ. And that this way they can release an expanded SoB dex. Wouldn't that be nice?

[scadugenga]

GW fails spectacularly again.

They had such an awesome new market to explore, and they went and tossed it away with their crappy pricing strategy.

$41.99 for an ebook? The actual hard copy is cheaper, and actually uses resources...

People are buying fewer ebooks due to the "same price as paper" marketing strategy, and you want them to pay more? Publishers are already getting sued for stupid price gouging tactics.

My iPad will get along just fine without an ebook version of a codex, thanks much.

And while I enjoy and play multiple games...PP's ibodger is still free.

GW will never learn as long as sheep continue to allow themselves to be fleeced.

[miksaa]

I personally is happy that GW went with a high quality product (I downloaded the sample and it looks great. Now I just need an iPad of my own) rather than a cheap PDF (which would have taken then two minutes to make).
Well the same thing can be done in an PDF, cheap or not. Actually Adobe have programs to produce the same kind of interactive documents and they can be exported for both iBook, PDF, Flash or HTML the biggest difference is the cost for the program. But I guess they are using the Creative Suite from Adobe today so it would save a lot of time and money to use the same program for both printed and digital content (even if the tool from Apple is free) and also have the added benefit of reaching the Android community as well as any PDF able device there is.

Still this is a beginning and I hope they realize that there are other platforms than Apple that could be a market for this.

[gendoikari87]

You mean besides:

Mobile web browsing
Mobile movie watching
PDF storage and viewing
Video Conferencing
Mobile presentations
Mobile Boardgaming

I could go on.

We use ours all the time. My boss uses his almost exclusively for his business interactions.

Also:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/256625/apples_ipad_will_be_more_popular_than_pcs_in_2020. html

I'd wager this is also a primary reason to go with iOS first as it is already has a deeper market penetration for tablets.

yeah but I have my laptop for that stuff. and it's more powerful.

P.S. an iPad won't work for the sorts of presentations I do.

[Thiselton]

yeah but I have my laptop for that stuff. and it's more powerful.

P.S. an iPad won't work for the sorts of presentations I do.

Who Cares about your Epic Computer Skillz, or that your computing needs are more awesome than an iPad can handle.

This is probably just a beginning into going digital with their stuff, iPad just has a huge accessible marketshare, kind of like most big smartphone apps come out on iPhone first. Quit yer *****in and roll dice.



You guys are getting so caught up on the Apple Hate that you are missing the actual problem with this release, you know the $42 price point!

$9 more for a digital copy? Yes valuable time was spent making this and the eBook stores all take their fees and charge bandwidth fees but $42 is pretty outrageous.

[Defenestratus]

As I write this post using my android powered xoom, I get angry that yet again GW has shot itself in the foot by only having this be available on the ipad. Get with the times GW. Android commands twice the marketshare of iOS globally. Twice! Apple is losing its death grip on the mobile world and you're still clinging onto that outdated model.

[olberon]

ok so to have the latest goodies from GW i need to buy an Ipad *grumble* lets see if there is another way to view that "digitally enhanced" codex :cool:

[gendoikari87]

here's a question, why not go the obvious rout and just release it for something like the kindle?

[Wildeybeast]

To those complaining/wondering why it is only available on Apple, not Android, the answer is pretty simple. I asked my games designer mate this very question when he made his first app, only on Apple (I have an Android phone). Firstly, you need an entirely seperate development process for Android to Apple. In effect, you have to make your product twice (with associated time & costs). Secondly, and more importantly is people buying it. Whilst the number of devices carrying Android is significantly larger, most people do not buy stuff on there. The majority of apps have free trial versions or fulll versions which carry advertising, whereas people buy stuff on Apple. So, for a start up app (which this is) it makes perfect sense to release it on Apple first. If it proves successful there, you can justify the costs of developing for another platform safe in the knowledge that plenty of people will buy it. I don't know how much this has cost to develop, but to give you some context a top end app such as Angry Birds can easily set you back 100k. Even for a company as big as GW, that is signifcant investment in what is entirely new field for them and one in which they have no idea how successful they will be. In summary, if you want to see it on Android, encourage people to buy it on Apple!

[Sckeetch]

Meanwhile, In Australia...

We save ~$14 by buying the digital Space Marine codex. Not too mention the extra content! I don't play Marines, but this may very well be how I buy all my army books from now on!

[wittdooley]

As I write this post using my android powered xoom, I get angry that yet again GW has shot itself in the foot by only having this be available on the ipad. Get with the times GW. Android commands twice the marketshare of iOS globally. Twice! Apple is losing its death grip on the mobile world and you're still clinging onto that outdated model.

Not for tablets it doesn't.

[Feth]

here's a question, why not go the obvious rout and just release it for something like the kindle?

Because the license agreement for the "free" authoring tools for the IBook2 is unique on the planet and I doubt anyone at GW understood what they were signing.


Section 2 of the EULA:

B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be distributed as follows:

(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may distribute the Work by any available means;

(ii) if your Work is provided for a fee (including as part of any subscription-based product or service), you may only distribute the Work through Apple and such distribution is subject to the following limitations and conditions: (a) you will be required to enter into a separate written agreement with Apple (or an Apple affiliate or subsidiary) before any commercial distribution of your Work may take place; and (b) Apple may determine for any reason and in its sole discretion not to select your Work for distribution.


No Droids, no Kindles, believe or not this prohibition includes Apple desktops and laptops since the authoring tools will output a product that can only be used by the IBook2 standard, aka iBooks® 2 for iPad, period.

This is bold faced in the next paragraph"


Apple will not be responsible for any costs, expenses, damages, losses (including
without limitation lost business opportunities or lost profits) or other liabilities you may incur as a result of your use of this Apple Software, including without limitation the fact that your Work may not be selected for distribution by Apple.

That means Apple may chose to not publish your product but since you signed it over to Apple they will not let you publish it anywhere else...

Apple also takes 30% of the App store price, that's why the price is what it is, GW passed it along.

Good job GW...


Apple has changed its iBooks Author End User License Agreement last night. Naturally I see it a little while after I post....



The new agreement’s Section 2:

B. Distribution of Works Generated Using the iBooks Author Software. As a condition of this License and provided you are in compliance with its terms, works generated using iBooks Author may be distributed as follows:
(i) if the work is provided for free (at no charge), you may distribute it by any means;

(ii) if the work is provided for a fee (including as part of any subscription-based product or service) and includes files in the .ibooks format generated using iBooks Author, the work may only be distributed through Apple, and such distribution will be subject to a separate written agreement with Apple (or an Apple affiliate or subsidiary); provided, however, that this restriction will not apply to the content of the work when distributed in a form that does not include files in the .ibooks format generated using iBooks Author. You retain all your rights in the content of your works, and you may distribute such content by any means when it does not include files in the .ibooks format generated by iBooks Author.

The old agreement’s Section 2:

B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be distributed as follows:
(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may distribute the Work by any available means;
(ii) if your Work is provided for a fee (including as part of any subscription-based product or service), you may only distribute the Work through Apple and such distribution is subject to the following limitations and conditions: (a) you will be required to enter into a separate written agreement with Apple (or an Apple affiliate or subsidiary) before any commercial distribution of your Work may take place; and (b) Apple may determine for any reason and in its sole discretion not to select your Work for distribution.

[wittdooley]

Yes. Leave out the fact that what they've done wouldn't even work on a kindle. IMO reading PDFs on a kindle is a poor experience.

[Gir]

To those complaining/wondering why it is only available on Apple, not Android, the answer is pretty simple. I asked my games designer mate this very question when he made his first app, only on Apple (I have an Android phone). Firstly, you need an entirely seperate development process for Android to Apple. In effect, you have to make your product twice (with associated time & costs). Secondly, and more importantly is people buying it. Whilst the number of devices carrying Android is significantly larger, most people do not buy stuff on there. The majority of apps have free trial versions or fulll versions which carry advertising, whereas people buy stuff on Apple. So, for a start up app (which this is) it makes perfect sense to release it on Apple first. If it proves successful there, you can justify the costs of developing for another platform safe in the knowledge that plenty of people will buy it. I don't know how much this has cost to develop, but to give you some context a top end app such as Angry Birds can easily set you back 100k. Even for a company as big as GW, that is signifcant investment in what is entirely new field for them and one in which they have no idea how successful they will be. In summary, if you want to see it on Android, encourage people to buy it on Apple!

That's because Apple use a horrendously poor and proprietary language (objective C), while Android can run native languages, much like Windows. They could have gotten a windows and android version going with very little code differences.

[Chuck777]

And again, even when it catches up, 3D printing I think is going to be a lot less useful than people seem to think it's going to be.

You forget how creative people are when there's no effort involved.

If all they have to do is scan an item and click a few buttons, it will become immensely popular. The only reason creating your own models isn't popular today is that it requires thought and effort - you have to buy the materials, use your hands create molds, pour resin... Way too much effort!

Plus, by the time 3-D printing hits the mainstream, GW will have raised their prices at least 3 or 4 more times.

At that point, we'll be paying like 70 bucks for a Tac Squad. People will be far more willing to learn how to print in 3-D to avoid the horrendous cost of GW models.

[Wildeybeast]

That's because Apple use a horrendously poor and proprietary language (objective C), while Android can run native languages, much like Windows. They could have gotten a windows and android version going with very little code differences.

They could indeed, but they would still have to pay the costs of developing for Apple somewhere down the line. If you are developing an app to make money like this one, far better to make it on Apple first where people pay for stuff rather than struggle in market where people expect free stuff. I'm not saying they shouldn't expand to other platforms, quite the opposite, but for their first foray into this market it makes good business sense to start with Apple and test the market that way. They do say on the website that this is just the first wave of stuff, I expect plenty more to come and other platforms if it sells well.

[Chuck777]

Do iPad's batteries even last long enough to see the end of a 2000 point game (2.5-3 hours)? I suppose they want us to just magically find an outlet some where in the store to use? Looks like my FLGS will have to be rewired!

[Kawauso]

You forget how creative people are when there's no effort involved.

If all they have to do is scan an item and click a few buttons, it will become immensely popular. The only reason creating your own models isn't popular today is that it requires thought and effort - you have to buy the materials, use your hands create molds, pour resin... Way too much effort!

Plus, by the time 3-D printing hits the mainstream, GW will have raised their prices at least 3 or 4 more times.

At that point, we'll be paying like 70 bucks for a Tac Squad. People will be far more willing to learn how to print in 3-D to avoid the horrendous cost of GW models.

3D scanning and 3D printing are not one and the same. That's 2 pieces of equipment you have to buy now, plus the software and knowledge to operate them.

The technology for both is likely to remain quite expensive for a long time because the practicality of having that technology in your home for everyday use isn't there the same way it is for, say, paper printers. This is opinion, of course, but I have a pretty hard time seeing 3D printing becoming mainstream in the same way.

What does the average person need a 3D printer for? Or a 3D scanner? Let alone both?

Like I said, there's very little effort involved in something like ordering a knock-off from a certain Chinese manufacturer, but it's not exactly taking the wargaming community by storm.

3D printing will (and has) make an impact on the hobby...to the extent you're saying, though? I doubt it, myself.

[Chaoschrist]

Is it just me who is excited and hopes that in the future GW might give us some awesome Warhammer themed ipad sleeve? If this digital codex thing sticks around that is.

I have mixed feelings about it because an ipad already is an expensive gadget as is. I don't own one, I'm saving up for one though. But that has nothing to do with a new product GW wants to sell me. I can just see how little kids, besides an army, now ask mom and dad for an ipad because... they need to play warhammer. And with that obviously comes the problem of "I can only spend my money once". If I'm shelling out for an ipad, I'm not spending money on GW plastics. Yes, priorities... but we're talking about both luxury items.

As for people complaining about the price; I think it's 1. Apple takes a cut and 2. GW price rise imminent, chances are paper codexes will cost just as much in the following weeks. So the "digital is more expensive" is probably not really justified until we compare that with a price rise next week.

Besides that... I feel that it's an awesome idea, having those interactive books with 360-view, a plethora of galleries and stuff like that. Though I can see how some people think it's a gimmick and just want a paper book without everything flashing.

Technically GW could update their codexes more often like this. New model coming out for army X... let's put out a new digital codex. It's cheaper in distribution and we don't have to pull everything from the shelves.

The mixed feeling I have with it, is that now GW has found a way to actually make a decent profit over something they don't physically have to make. But I'm not complaining about digital media either...

A thing, and it's something, someone adressed on this thread. Power and battery life. Bringing a codex to a game is fine, but I'm well aware of the fact that some people don't remember to charge their cellphones or ereaders frequently, so I can just see stuff happening like "oh... it's in my codex, but I can 't show you, my battery is empty".

[StarWarsDoug]

Wow! Lots of iPad Hate. If I may point out:

1. This is not a simple PDF of the C:SM. it is a interactive, cross linked, 360 degree model view, zoom in, instant reference, errata updated wonder piece!
2. No other format provided the digital rights protection level of iBooks.
3. Price will match or be cheaper than future paper codex. It's just sticker shock because the price hike and new style codex for 6th haven't started hitting yet.


And finally, unless you own and iPad and have downloaded a copy of the book, your statements against this make you look ignorant. I'm not saying to inflame, but I would like to see less zombified automatons repeating their opinions as fact, so please, if I am referring to you, do some of your own research.

Cheers!

[juliusb]

3D scanning and 3D printing are not one and the same. That's 2 pieces of equipment you have to buy now, plus the software and knowledge to operate them.

The technology for both is likely to remain quite expensive for a long time because the practicality of having that technology in your home for everyday use isn't there the same way it is for, say, paper printers. This is opinion, of course, but I have a pretty hard time seeing 3D printing becoming mainstream in the same way.

What does the average person need a 3D printer for? Or a 3D scanner? Let alone both?

Like I said, there's very little effort involved in something like ordering a knock-off from a certain Chinese manufacturer, but it's not exactly taking the wargaming community by storm.

3D printing will (and has) make an impact on the hobby...to the extent you're saying, though? I doubt it, myself.

I couldn't disagree more; this sounds like the record companies when Napster launched. 3D printers are just like any other tech; they rapidly get better, cheaper and easier to use. I've already heard about a $500 home version. I don't think it's crazy to speculate that in 2-3 years a $500 printer will be able to make GW-quality parts. Let's say raw materials cost me $200 to make what would've cost me $500 at GW... $700 for $500 of GW isn't bad at all. Especially when I know my next $500 will cost me $200, and the next year when GW cost $600, it'll cost me $200...

GW has to do what the record companies did but they have to do it sooner; GW doesn't have the $ to fight the world for years in a losing battle. There's a balance where you can sell product cheap enough where most people won't bother cheating (like iTunes) and still expensive enough to make doing business worthwhile. They should embrace 3D printing instead of fight it; if they do it right most people will just go with the legitimate stuff for convenience; you'll never stop all of the thieves but you'll eventually find the balance that the music industry did.

[apahllo]

Meanwhile, In Australia...

We save ~$14 by buying the digital Space Marine codex. Not too mention the extra content! I don't play Marines, but this may very well be how I buy all my army books from now on!

Hahahahahahaha. You save money in Australia?? That's a first.

Don't you have to pay more for video games? Something like the government wants to ban them but they can't so they jacked up the prices?

[wittdooley]

Do iPad's batteries even last long enough to see the end of a 2000 point game (2.5-3 hours)? I suppose they want us to just magically find an outlet some where in the store to use? Looks like my FLGS will have to be rewired!

I can watch 2-3 movies on it with a full battery no problem. So yes, captain sarcasm, they can.

Why the apple hate again?

[flekkzo]

Who Cares about your Epic Computer Skillz, or that your computing needs are more awesome than an iPad can handle.

This is probably just a beginning into going digital with their stuff, iPad just has a huge accessible marketshare, kind of like most big smartphone apps come out on iPhone first. Quit yer *****in and roll dice.



You guys are getting so caught up on the Apple Hate that you are missing the actual problem with this release, you know the $42 price point!

$9 more for a digital copy? Yes valuable time was spent making this and the eBook stores all take their fees and charge bandwidth fees but $42 is pretty outrageous.

I very much agree, I rather buy all codexes/army books for $9/$14 or something a piece than just the ones I play for $41.99. 16 codexes and 15 army books. 31x9 is 279 bucks. Which is 6 ones for $41.99.

[wittdooley]

I couldn't disagree more; this sounds like the record companies when Napster launched. 3D printers are just like any other tech; they rapidly get better, cheaper and easier to use. I've already heard about a $500 home version. I don't think it's crazy to speculate that in 2-3 years a $500 printer will be able to make GW-quality parts. Let's say raw materials cost me $200 to make what would've cost me $500 at GW... $700 for $500 of GW isn't bad at all. Especially when I know my next $500 will cost me $200, and the next year when GW cost $600, it'll cost me $200...

GW has to do what the record companies did but they have to do it sooner; GW doesn't have the $ to fight the world for years in a losing battle. There's a balance where you can sell product cheap enough where most people won't bother cheating (like iTunes) and still expensive enough to make doing business worthwhile. They should embrace 3D printing instead of fight it; if they do it right most people will just go with the legitimate stuff for convenience; you'll never stop all of the thieves but you'll eventually find the balance that the music industry did.

So where are you getting all of these 3D plans again? Presumeably you have an over abundance of z-brush talent? Or do you also have this fantastic 3D scanner in your house as well?

And then theres the whole notion that, for these things to become even remotely affordable there has to be a larger market. I can't think of that many people that would really be in the market for both a 3D printer and 3D scanner.

Analogizing this to burning CDs seems like a gigantic stretch at best.

[Kawauso]

So where are you getting all of these 3D plans again? Presumeably you have an over abundance of z-brush talent? Or do you also have this fantastic 3D scanner in your house as well?

And then theres the whole notion that, for these things to become even remotely affordable there has to be a larger market. I can't think of that many people that would really be in the market for both a 3D printer and 3D scanner.

Analogizing this to burning CDs seems like a gigantic stretch at best.

Thank you.

[Gir]

They could indeed, but they would still have to pay the costs of developing for Apple somewhere down the line. If you are developing an app to make money like this one, far better to make it on Apple first where people pay for stuff rather than struggle in market where people expect free stuff. I'm not saying they shouldn't expand to other platforms, quite the opposite, but for their first foray into this market it makes good business sense to start with Apple and test the market that way. They do say on the website that this is just the first wave of stuff, I expect plenty more to come and other platforms if it sells well.

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty Windows and Android devices outnumber iPads more than 100 fold.

[wittdooley]

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty Windows and Android devices outnumber iPads more than 100 fold.

You are. The market share for smart phones is in favor of android with a 51%ish market share while iPhone is at 37%ish. However, when it comes to tablets iPads are king at about 68% with android in the mid 20s.

So bear in mind the design of these products will be more focused towards tablets, and in terms of smartphones, iPhones aren't even available to many US providers.

So, sorry Fandroid-iOS haters; it actually DOES make more sense for GW to initiate their tablet designed product on the iPad. And that's without considering the increased security and more profitable app store.

[Gir]

You are. The market share for smart phones is in favor of android with a 51%ish market share while iPhone is at 37%ish. However, when it comes to tablets iPads are king at about 68% with android in the mid 20s.

So bear in mind the design of these products will be more focused towards tablets, and in terms of smartphones, iPhones aren't even available to many US providers.

So, sorry Fandroid-iOS haters; it actually DOES make more sense for GW to initiate their tablet designed product on the iPad. And that's without considering the increased security and more profitable app store.

Huh? Are you honestly trying to tell me that there are more iPads in the world than Windows machines? You realize that when make it for windows, you have a market on every PC/laptop/netbook, as well as every Windows 8 tablet that comes out in the next few years.

[ozybonza]

Huh? Are you honestly trying to tell me that there are more iPads in the world than Windows machines? You realize that when make it for windows, you have a market on every PC/laptop/netbook, as well as every Windows 8 tablet that comes out in the next few years.

Astute poster is astute.

I'd say the DRM Apple use may be a reason they are IPad exclusive for now, the irony being that now the only way Android/Windows/Linux users can get it is by pirating a ripped/converted version. Mark my words, torrents of the new digital codex's will be up within a week or so and be readable on other devices (although they may be epub and be missing the interactive bits). This will be the ONLY way for non-Apple users to obtain the digital codex's.

That said, I applaud GW for not only going digital, but actually *adding value* to the digital version over the paper version.... please GW, LET ME PAY YOU MONEY FOR THIS SOMEHOW!!!!!!!!

[Brandoncbaker]

The flame war over is is unbelievable, or is it?Ether buy it or not. trashing the I pad because you don't have one is silly.

[Gir]

The flame war over is is unbelievable, or is it?Ether buy it or not. trashing the I pad because you don't have one is silly.

My girlfriend has one. It's nice, but too restricting, which makes it feel like a toy. I'm waiting for Windows 8 tablets so I can actually have control over my device.

[wittdooley]

Huh? Are you honestly trying to tell me that there are more iPads in the world than Windows machines? You realize that when make it for windows, you have a market on every PC/laptop/netbook, as well as every Windows 8 tablet that comes out in the next few years.

No one is talking about computers man. We're talking about tablets. There is a big difference. I have ZERO interest lugging a laptop around to game. I love bringing my iPad to game.

We need some proof that these windows 8 tablets are even going to gain market penetration. Based on smartphone windows, I'd argue those prospects are not looking good.

[Gir]

No one is talking about computers man. We're talking about tablets. There is a big difference. I have ZERO interest lugging a laptop around to game. I love bringing my iPad to game.

We need some proof that these windows 8 tablets are even going to gain market penetration. Based on smartphone windows, I'd argue those prospects are not looking good.

Windows 8 on tablets is the same version as PC, so it should have some pretty serious market penetration.

[ozybonza]

No one is talking about computers man. We're talking about tablets. There is a big difference. I have ZERO interest lugging a laptop around to game. I love bringing my iPad to game.

We need some proof that these windows 8 tablets are even going to gain market penetration. Based on smartphone windows, I'd argue those prospects are not looking good.

Understandable, but newer ultrabooks are iPad-like in weight and form factor. Some even swivel round into a tablet type thing.

Not to mention that you might just want to read it at home? Personally, I'd still rather a paper version over iPad or anything else for games but would fork out the cash for all the extra content.

Bringing it to games on a tablet is certainly what many people will do and there's no denying that iPad is dominant in the tablet space right now, but it's hardly the only usage case for an expanded, interactive digital codex.

[Kataklysm]

Gw switching to a digital format? No whining here. I will happily be browsing all the torrent sites for a ripped copy within the next few weeks.

"Thats wrong, snivel snivel...!!" You might say. 41.99 USD is wrong I reply.

I also bought items from a certain asain "counterfitting" company a while back.

Ethical or not in your opinion, I care not. I dont want to pay high prices, so I will find another way around it.
If MY purchase personally has a hand in the destruction of GW, then there are always other games.


Lets see how many people try to tear me apart.

[Nicho]

All codexes will be £25 pounds after this months price hike so it evens out.

[Defenestratus]

To those complaining/wondering why it is only available on Apple, not Android, the answer is pretty simple. I asked my games designer mate this very question when he made his first app, only on Apple (I have an Android phone). Firstly, you need an entirely seperate development process for Android to Apple. In effect, you have to make your product twice (with associated time & costs). Secondly, and more importantly is people buying it. Whilst the number of devices carrying Android is significantly larger, most people do not buy stuff on there. The majority of apps have free trial versions or fulll versions which carry advertising, whereas people buy stuff on Apple. So, for a start up app (which this is) it makes perfect sense to release it on Apple first. If it proves successful there, you can justify the costs of developing for another platform safe in the knowledge that plenty of people will buy it. I don't know how much this has cost to develop, but to give you some context a top end app such as Angry Birds can easily set you back 100k. Even for a company as big as GW, that is signifcant investment in what is entirely new field for them and one in which they have no idea how successful they will be. In summary, if you want to see it on Android, encourage people to buy it on Apple!

What you say may be true from an app development perspective (although there are plenty who say that android development is easier and less costly than iOS without all of apples restrictions) it absolutely has nothing to do with content creation. Why they didn't publish this as a standard ebook in the kindle store is beyond me. Again this isn't an app. It took no more developement time to publish than an ebook.

[Wildeybeast]

What you say may be true from an app development perspective (although there are plenty who say that android development is easier and less costly than iOS without all of apples restrictions) it absolutely has nothing to do with content creation. Why they didn't publish this as a standard ebook in the kindle store is beyond me. Again this isn't an app. It took no more developement time to publish than an ebook.

A fair point. I guess it gives them a relationship with Apple to build off for future apps. I'm sure plenty of people would pay good money for an offical GW army list builder on the their Ipad etc. Imagine never having to print one off again. But that's just speculation. It could be any number of perfectly valid reasons. Does kindle support high quality colour pictures necessary for the painting guides? Does Ibooks have a bigger market share? Does the Apple agreement have some sort of exclusivity clause? Could they afford to develop for two different platforms? Whatever the reasons, it mkaes good sense to test the water on one format rather than developing for multiple sytems when you have no idea what sales will be like.

I'm sure GW will have thought this decision through quite carefully rather than just randomly picking a format to work on and I don't think the reaction to GW exploring a new market in an attempt to give customers access to their products in a new way should be to slam them because they haven't done so on a product people don't own. We should encourage this venture in the hope it will be successful and lead to them expanding it to other platforms.

[Deadlift]

All codexes will be £25 pounds after this months price hike so it evens out.

Eldargal pointed this out too, and after actually looking at the promo video I now take back my previous statement saying it was priced too highly.

I spoke to too soon and now think that the £25 price is actually quite reasonable considering the interactivity of the codex and its obviously an improvement over the hard copy.

I know when I am wrong and quite happy to say so :) however I don't have an iPad, just an iPhone. This may be the time to take the plunge.

[gendoikari87]

Because the license agreement for the "free" authoring tools for the IBook2 is unique on the planet and I doubt anyone at GW understood what they were signing.



No Droids, no Kindles, believe or not this prohibition includes Apple desktops and laptops since the authoring tools will output a product that can only be used by the IBook2 standard, aka iBooks® 2 for iPad, period.

This is bold faced in the next paragraph"



That means Apple may chose to not publish your product but since you signed it over to Apple they will not let you publish it anywhere else...

Apple also takes 30% of the App store price, that's why the price is what it is, GW passed it along.

Good job GW...


Apple has changed its iBooks Author End User License Agreement last night. Naturally I see it a little while after I post....



The new agreement’s Section 2:

B. Distribution of Works Generated Using the iBooks Author Software. As a condition of this License and provided you are in compliance with its terms, works generated using iBooks Author may be distributed as follows:
(i) if the work is provided for free (at no charge), you may distribute it by any means;

(ii) if the work is provided for a fee (including as part of any subscription-based product or service) and includes files in the .ibooks format generated using iBooks Author, the work may only be distributed through Apple, and such distribution will be subject to a separate written agreement with Apple (or an Apple affiliate or subsidiary); provided, however, that this restriction will not apply to the content of the work when distributed in a form that does not include files in the .ibooks format generated using iBooks Author. You retain all your rights in the content of your works, and you may distribute such content by any means when it does not include files in the .ibooks format generated by iBooks Author.

The old agreement’s Section 2:

B. Distribution of your Work. As a condition of this License and provided you are in compliance with its terms, your Work may be distributed as follows:
(i) if your Work is provided for free (at no charge), you may distribute the Work by any available means;
(ii) if your Work is provided for a fee (including as part of any subscription-based product or service), you may only distribute the Work through Apple and such distribution is subject to the following limitations and conditions: (a) you will be required to enter into a separate written agreement with Apple (or an Apple affiliate or subsidiary) before any commercial distribution of your Work may take place; and (b) Apple may determine for any reason and in its sole discretion not to select your Work for distribution.

Wow, okay this explains a lot. It's also kinda funny.

[Rapture]

Eldargal pointed this out too, and after actually looking at the promo video I now take back my previous statement saying it was priced too highly.

I spoke to too soon and now think that the £25 price is actually quite reasonable considering the interactivity of the codex and its obviously an improvement over the hard copy.


Interactivity? Rotatable pictures and searchable text is completely worthless to me. 90% of the time you would spend looking at the 360 degree pictures would probably be at home (if at all) and you likely have a computer at home. The rule gathering is silly. The rules are available in the book/PDFish that you own and are never difficult to find.

The digital codex nothing more than the ordinary codex loaded with gimmicks. They can keep their 'interactivity.'

[Mr Mystery]

So GW offer something the Interwebs has been demanding for ages, and the Interwebs, without having purchased, played with or otherwise messed around with, declares it simply not good enough.

Yeesh. It's like an abusive relationship.

[Ryar]

I hope they release a digital version of 6th edition. I've been waiting for digital content from geedub for years. Finally between last October i think we started getting digital black library books and artwork and now they've started on some codexs. Not just any dex, their holy grail the space marine dex! if this means anything geedub is jumping into digital format with their main line of products face first and i bet you future releases of codexs, rulebooks, supplements, and the like will all be available for digital download at release. Just think about the money side of this for geedub. No printing costs, no shipping costs, and lastly you've removed the middleman in your sales channel(flgs). oh and not to mention all the ppl who will simply buy both the digital and the print version. Great move geedub!

[Deadlift]

Interactivity? Rotatable pictures and searchable text is completely worthless to me. 90% of the time you would spend looking at the 360 degree pictures would probably be at home (if at all) and you likely have a computer at home. The rule gathering is silly. The rules are available in the book/PDFish that you own and are never difficult to find.

The digital codex nothing more than the ordinary codex loaded with gimmicks. They can keep their 'interactivity.'

I like gimmicks, and being able to update my codex when new units and PDFs are released is great,An extra fiver which wouldn't even cover a couple pints is I think quite good value. When the prices go up even more of an excuse to go digital really.

[Tynskel]

WTF is the point to an iPad? It seems like it's a cross between a smart phone and a lap top while doing neither job well.

I use it for work.
When you read ~1000 pages of .pdfs a month, and you want to mark them up, an iPad is a wonderful thing.

You don't have to be printing (let alone carry all that crap) all the time.
Nor do you have to sit in an uncomfortable position with the laptop.

:::
It looks like they went all out on the app, though. Which is really cool.

[Tynskel]

What you say may be true from an app development perspective (although there are plenty who say that android development is easier and less costly than iOS without all of apples restrictions) it absolutely has nothing to do with content creation. Why they didn't publish this as a standard ebook in the kindle store is beyond me. Again this isn't an app. It took no more developement time to publish than an ebook.

this is *NOT* an ebook.
The tabs n' stuff makes it an interactive book, and most ebook readers don't do the interactive stuff. GW didn't make a 'pdf' and slap ebook on it. They made an application that has looooots of words (but many many many pictures).

[Tynskel]

Do iPad's batteries even last long enough to see the end of a 2000 point game (2.5-3 hours)? I suppose they want us to just magically find an outlet some where in the store to use? Looks like my FLGS will have to be rewired!

dooooood.
Do you have an iPad?

I charge mine basically once to twice a week. I watch netflix, and read full color multiple layered pdfs on the thing all week long.

[wittdooley]

Based on the comments it seems like about 90% of those complaining have never even USED a kindle or iPad.

No the kindle couldn't handle what they did for this first release. No, the kindle isnt very good for reading PDFs. I love my kindle, but it's good for reading books.

@Rapture-- The interactivity of this DIgi codex is awesome. Complain all you want about how 'you' don't need it, but having it searchable with pop ups and interactive pictures is a really great value add to the product. I think it's priced a bit high, which is the white elephant everyone seems to be ignoring while throwing these hissy fits regarding android and apple.

My hope is that they offer the hard backed codeces with a redeem code for these interactive ones later. I'd pay an extra 5-10 dollars for that.

[Rapture]

@Rapture-- The interactivity of this DIgi codex is awesome. Complain all you want about how 'you' don't need it, but having it searchable with pop ups and interactive pictures is a really great value add to the product. I think it's priced a bit high, which is the white elephant everyone seems to be ignoring while throwing these hissy fits regarding android and apple.

Complain? I don't think a reasonable person would classify my statement as a complaint - more of a statement. I don't own the document, don't plan on owning the document, and don't even really have a desire for an electronic codex at all. That does not mean that I cannot, through hearing what it has to offer, deem it a silly product that falls short of market desire.

Value added? Most people already own the codex and have no trouble finding the rules required. They are organized by section for a reason. To search my codex, I don't need to type anything in (or spend more money) - I simply open it to the relevant section and then the appropriate page. This takes only seconds. As far as the 'interactive' pictures go, their practically nonexistent charm will be lost on most people after the first viewing. Adding, literally, anything to the document would technically add value. That does not mean that the value is worth even a thought never mind the increased cost.

The price is ridiculous and everyone knows it. Most people mention the lack of availability first because, regardless of price, they cannot even use the document.

[eldargal]

People who want a digital codex now have the option to have a legal digital codex they can take into a GW store or tournament. Digital codices were also one of the more requested things for GW to produce. That they aren't cheaper is really irrelevent, GW have chosen to cater to people wh owant one or the other rather than offering a discounted version to sell both but perhaps instead having saled of the more expensive printed copy decline. Whatever you may think of the sense of this, they are still catering to a demand for digital products.

[wittdooley]

So have you used or viewed the sample yet? I have. It's really nice.

As someone who has self-proclaimed little to no interest in digital copies of a codex, how can you really speak to what the whole of the market desires. Clearly a lot of the market wants these files digitally, despite whether or not you do. I'm amazed that people are taking GW to the shed for doing a ton MORE than the bare minimum of slapping a PDF on the iBooks store. Then again, if it was ONLY a PDF, we'd have people complaining about it ONLY being a PDF. If anything, this product is well beyond "market desire"

The ability to carry multiple books in a single portable device is proven to be a desire in the "geek hobby" market. See: drivethrurpg.com. The market is there. I think the price here is about 50% too high. But then, I already stated that.

[Chris Copeland]

So GW offer something the Interwebs has been demanding for ages, and the Interwebs, without having purchased, played with or otherwise messed around with, declares it simply not good enough.

Yeesh. It's like an abusive relationship.

Mr. M, you have knocked this one out of the park! I am starting tho get the sense that a LOT of the GW fan base that takes time to post on-line is composed of negative whiners who all seem to have overblown senses of entitlement! It's bizarre. GW makes a new model=whining. GW prints a new codex=whining. GW embraces the digital age=whining that GW didn't do it the way the phanbois would have done it. Oi vay!

Y'know how this news was received by my local club? With excitement and cheers. There is something about the interwebz that brings out the negative side of folks... sheesh... Cope

PS I don't think that the vocal minority that does so much of the GW bashing on the boards is all that representative of the real world GW gaming community...

[Deadlift]

PS I don't think that the vocal minority that does so much of the GW bashing on the boards is all that representative of the real world GW gaming community...

The real world GW gaming community are too busy enjoying painting models and playing their games to bother us here in our cave :)

That's the problem, some people here sometimes forget why they enjoy the hobby and start looking for it's negatives.

Not for me, some may say fanboi, I would just call myself a fan.

[Rapture]

As someone who has self-proclaimed little to no interest in digital copies of a codex, how can you really speak to what the whole of the market desires. Clearly a lot of the market wants these files digitally, despite whether or not you do. I'm amazed that people are taking GW to the shed for doing a ton MORE than the bare minimum of slapping a PDF on the iBooks store. Then again, if it was ONLY a PDF, we'd have people complaining about it ONLY being a PDF. If anything, this product is well beyond "market desire"

I, as an individual not doing serious research on the subject, am equally capable of yourself as making a determination about what I see as the market's current desire. Since your comment shows that you clearly see yourself qualified to make such determinations, how can you possible argue that my opinions are any less valuable?

Why would anyone complain about it only being a PDF? Doing more than the bare minimum is only meaningful if what is done has actual utility. In this case it does not. Simply releasing any digital version of the codex would have satisfied the market. Adding useless features and up-charging takes away from the success of such a document.

Point: Objectively speaking, GW finally released an official digital copy but chose to burden it with a higher price in favor of adding either unnecessary or useless features. I say they missed the mark. Possibly a sound business decision, but I am not convinced that it matches what people wanted - simply to store and access a codex electronically.

[gendoikari87]

So GW offer something the Interwebs has been demanding for ages, and the Interwebs, without having purchased, played with or otherwise messed around with, declares it simply not good enough.

Yeesh. It's like an abusive relationship.

I think most people simply don't like the platform. if it wasn't for that I'd say this was a huge step forward for them. as it is, meh. Don't have an iPad and am not getting one just for this.

[gendoikari87]

I use it for work.
When you read ~1000 pages of .pdfs a month, and you want to mark them up, an iPad is a wonderful thing.

You don't have to be printing (let alone carry all that crap) all the time.
Nor do you have to sit in an uncomfortable position with the laptop.

:::
It looks like they went all out on the app, though. Which is really cool.

Now that makes more sense, like an advanced digital notebook/calander/planner/e-reader. kinda like the old PDA's only with actual graphics and a screen you don't have to squint to see.

[Mr Mystery]

I think most people simply don't like the platform. if it wasn't for that I'd say this was a huge step forward for them. as it is, meh. Don't have an iPad and am not getting one just for this.

Yet there's a massive assumption that this is it the ONLY form they will produce them in.

I mean, seriously. It's barely 36 hours since the annoucement was made, and already the trolls are gathering, picking holes, and generally desperate for something to whine about.

See my earlier point about abusive relationships. It's like the violent husband, who tells his wife he wants Curry for dinner, then when she cooks a Bhuna, he decides he wants a Vindaloo, and cracks her in the jaw. And had she made the Vindaloo, he'd have wanted a Bhuna, Korma or anything that isn't what was made...

I often wonder what the Designers and clever types at GW make of the Interwebs. I reckon it's pounds to pennies it''s a pretty negative one.

[scadugenga]

So have you used or viewed the sample yet? I have. It's really nice.

As someone who has self-proclaimed little to no interest in digital copies of a codex, how can you really speak to what the whole of the market desires. Clearly a lot of the market wants these files digitally, despite whether or not you do. I'm amazed that people are taking GW to the shed for doing a ton MORE than the bare minimum of slapping a PDF on the iBooks store. Then again, if it was ONLY a PDF, we'd have people complaining about it ONLY being a PDF. If anything, this product is well beyond "market desire"

The ability to carry multiple books in a single portable device is proven to be a desire in the "geek hobby" market. See: drivethrurpg.com. The market is there. I think the price here is about 50% too high. But then, I already stated that.

I have not viewed the sample yet. Though I do have an iPad. The price point is what is making me shake my head and go "nice try..." again.

If they were offering their codices at say, $25.00 USD, I would have zero problem with it, and would probably buy more than just the codices for the armies I have.

And yes, the allure of lugging rules around on the iPad is high. I can carry 40lbs or more worth of Pathfinder books, or have everything on the ipad.

It's quite simple, actually. :)

[Deadlift]

Has no one twigged that GW are also going to release the new rule book for 6th for the iPad too.

Yay :). I always thought of the iPad as a bigger version of my iPhone, not anymore.

[Chris Copeland]

Deadlift, it looks to me like they are going to charge the same amount for physical and digital copies of any given codex. Given the value-added features that the digital versions will have I'm quite happy to pay the same prices I would have paid for the dead-tree versions... :)

I'm really looking forward to a digital 'Nids Codex! That will be so cool!

[gendoikari87]

Has no one twigged that GW are also going to release the new rule book for 6th for the iPad too.

Yay :). I always thought of the iPad as a bigger version of my iPhone, not anymore.

Can we not get cybernetic implants yet? Those are going to be awesome. Something with the power of a full computer, a large field of vision "screen" and phone capability.

that's not asking for much is it?

[wittdooley]

I have not viewed the sample yet. Though I do have an iPad. The price point is what is making me shake my head and go "nice try..." again.

If they were offering their codices at say, $25.00 USD, I would have zero problem with it, and would probably buy more than just the codices for the armies I have.

And yes, the allure of lugging rules around on the iPad is high. I can carry 40lbs or more worth of Pathfinder books, or have everything on the ipad.

It's quite simple, actually. :)

Right with you on the price point. As I already have the physical and PDF versions, it's a tough sell for me. But only this codex. Ideally for me, I'd like to buy the paper version and pay a MODEST fee more to get access to the digital. We've yet to see where this is going, but besides the price, I like it

@rapture -- to be fair, I've done a fair amount of market research on tablets recently for my profession, so, and I don't mean this condescendingly at all, I probably have a bit more knowledge than the "average joe" in this instance. Apple is overwhelmingly in control if the tablet sector. We had looked at the RIM playbook because in the past blackberry = business, but it simple didn't have the capabilities that the iPad has. Now RIM is almost dead. Android isn't in dire straights like that, but according to our developers, it is harder to work with and they have to consider ALL android devices when programming, all of which have their interface idiosyncrasies. Apple, on the other hand really only has 1 tablet to worry about.

@gendo -- dude just go to best buy, kick a little kid off the booth, and play with an iPad for 10 minutes. You really have no idea what the iPad is capable of with comments like "oh, so it's like a PDA with color."

[gendoikari87]

@gendo -- dude just go to best buy, kick a little kid off the booth, and play with an iPad for 10 minutes. You really have no idea what the iPad is capable of with comments like "oh, so it's like a PDA with color."

can it play diablo III?

[wittdooley]

Is the hardware capable? Probably. Infinity Blade and Epoch pretty much prove that. I have a very average PC with a dedicated but average graphics card, and both of these look better on the iPad than they probably would on my PC that runs Diablo 3 just fine.

Can your Xbox or PS3 play diablo 3? Point being here that just because it isn't supported doesn't mean it can't play it.

Again, go check one out at best buy. I think you grossly underestimate what the iPad can do.

[Rapture]

@rapture -- to be fair, I've done a fair amount of market research on tablets recently for my profession, so, and I don't mean this condescendingly at all, I probably have a bit more knowledge than the "average joe" in this instance. Apple is overwhelmingly in control if the tablet sector. We had looked at the RIM playbook because in the past blackberry = business, but it simple didn't have the capabilities that the iPad has. Now RIM is almost dead. Android isn't in dire straights like that, but according to our developers, it is harder to work with and they have to consider ALL android devices when programming, all of which have their interface idiosyncrasies. Apple, on the other hand really only has 1 tablet to worry about.

To be even more fair, the market we were talking about was that of GW digital documents. Their break into that market is overdone and unnecessarily overpriced.

They either should have kept it simple for a lower price or they should have done something worth while.

[Deadlift]

Is the hardware capable? Probably. Infinity Blade and Epoch pretty much prove that. I have a very average PC with a dedicated but average graphics card, and both of these look better on the iPad than they probably would on my PC that runs Diablo 3 just fine.

Can your Xbox or PS3 play diablo 3? Point being here that just because it isn't supported doesn't mean it can't play it.

Again, go check one out at best buy. I think you grossly underestimate what the iPad can do.


I hope your right :). The mrs has just ordered us both an iPad each. Just the basic 16gb wifi ipad 2 models. As soon as they come and if nobody beats me to it I will do a little review on the codex.

[wittdooley]

You realize we agree on the price point being too high, right?

And a major part of this discussion has been based on the merits (or lackthereof) of having the product debut on iOS and not Android, so I think people having the correct information regarding tablet market saturation is important.

Regardless, You're not interested in hearing anything different tban your opinion that the product is "overdone" or "worthwhile", nor have you actually fooled around with the sample product, so there's trying to convince you otherwise will be fruitless.

Like I said earlier, if it was ONLY a PDF, all the blowhards would be complaining that it was ONLY a PDF.

[wittdooley]

I hope your right :). The mrs has just ordered us both an iPad each. Just the basic 16gb wifi ipad 2 models. As soon as they come and if nobody beats me to it I will do a little review on the codex.

Check out those two games I mentioned. Theyre sterling examples of what the hardware can do. I hear the implementation of Minecraft is really great, though I've yet to explore it.

[Rapture]

Regardless, You're not interested in hearing anything different tban your opinion that the product is "overdone" or "worthwhile", nor have you actually fooled around with the sample product, so there's trying to convince you otherwise will be fruitless.

I am fully aware of what I am interested it. If I wasn't interested in what people thought about it I would not be here. When something bad is released by a company that I like, I voice my opinion as I want the company to stay healthy. Also, I want them to release products that are worth purchasing. Convincing me fruitless? Go for it. If anyone would like to argue that imbedded reels of pictures (especially when the are taken from the original codex) and a search function are either desirable or necessary, I would be glad to read it. The document's toy functions are silly and should be left out.

The 'don't use what you don't like about it argument' is worthless as all features - good or bad - increase costs which increases the price.



Like I said earlier, if it was ONLY a PDF, all the blowhards would be complaining that it was ONLY a PDF.
Maybe. There are always blowhards - on both sides.

[wittdooley]

Here ya go. Yak face really sums up my thoughts.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/yakface_Reviews_the_Digital_Ultramarines_Codex

If you think all of the wonderful abilities to search, highlight, and quickly cross reference are "toy features," then I dont know If there will ever be value in this product for you.

Maybe GW could get John Hurt to read the entire book for ya?

[Tielc]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=22200010aMy first thought: DAMNIT GW! I neither have nor want an iPad - indeed I want nothing to do with Apple and their "bend over and grease up" customer policy.

So what you're telling me is you hate Applefor these reasons, but not GW for the same? Makes perfect sense to me.

[Brandoncbaker]

Is there any actual conformation on the new rule book being released on this format? I certainly hope so!!

[Tynskel]

The book is fantastic. Searchable glossary!
Completely up to date, including the new storm talon.

I am liking the idea of this thing, and I am looking forward to seeing more.
The reviews on iBooks are crap-- just a bunch of Internet whiners complaining about $$$. Whatever.

[eldargal]

Some info from Stickmonkey about it:

Works fine on iPhone 4s, just problematic. The interactive features are nearly impossible to work properly due to the area fencing being too small. Thus, due to quality control, you cannot purchase or download it to the iPhone.

I had it early for a specific reason that doesn't matter here. No Nda was violated, no boffins were harmed.

I did not discuss it here prior or it's release. Not even mention it privately. Trust me, it was serious business.

As far as what's expanded/ added...

1. Errata has all been incorporated.
2. Stormtalon is in it in fast attack section
3. Models released since the original codex release are included in showcases.
4. The book is fully indexed and a complete glossary is included.

The fluff is mostly identical, just some corrected grammar.

Some of the nice features include crosslinking from unit description to army list entry and vice versa.
In each entry you can highlight a entry, say StormBolter on a terminator wargear list, and bring up a pop up which shows stats, or go to the dictionary entry for it, or index.

My only disappointment is the decision to leave the painting guides as a separate purchase. But we can't win them all.

[gendoikari87]

So what you're telling me is you hate Applefor these reasons, but not GW for the same? Makes perfect sense to me.

Epic lol.

[wittdooley]

You know... I've never quite understood the iPod/iPad hate. I understand a bit more why people don't like Macs, but for the mobile devices, I don't quite get it. iPods and iPads are simply the best products at what they do and they're not egregiously priced.

Again, I'd love if GW adopted a new marketing structure where you could still buy the paper codex for your shelf and pay 5-10 bucks more for the digital version (I'd pay on the higher side for this because the digital ones are not simply PDF ports) which is similar to what the comic book industry is trying out with some of their larger titles. I believe DC offers JLA as a packaged deal for $3.50 (instead of $2.99) where you get access to a digital copy as well. The movie biz already does this with Blu-Rays & Digital copies, where you're looking at paying about $5 more for a version that includes the digital copy.

But then again, you can't exactly take precedents set in other industries and apply them to GW. Like...ever. :p

I did purchase the Jabberslythe rulesheet. I like it a lot. I hope they do a Storm of Magic conversion with an in-book spinner. That would be great.

[gendoikari87]

You know... I've never quite understood the iPod/iPad hate. I understand a bit more why people don't like Macs, but for the mobile devices, I don't quite get it. iPods and iPads are simply the best products at what they do and they're not egregiously priced.


They're just too funky. We're used to a mouse and keyboard. And a screen that stands up on it's own.

[eldargal]

Some more from Warseer regarding The Future:

...

The release schedule is a little wonky time wise, but my info tells me we should see roughly 1-3 codexes released a month, but not all are being converted...right now. Pace may be sporadic. In addition, there will be roughly 4-5 other supplements per month. (fantasy should see the same.)

Up next are BA, Necrons, GK, and DE.

I expect these by sept. as well as 6th Ed, and the new CSM book.

Painting guides for specific armies should roughly coincide with releases for those armies.

Later this year should see IG, Tyranids, and SoB.

Notably absent...you can figure that out ;)

(for fantasy players existing army books for 8th are all to be released by dec)

Cheers.

[Defenestratus]

this is *NOT* an ebook.
The tabs n' stuff makes it an interactive book, and most ebook readers don't do the interactive stuff. GW didn't make a 'pdf' and slap ebook on it. They made an application that has looooots of words (but many many many pictures).

Ok so they made an offline-viewable HTML5 website.

Again, what precisely about it requires that it be platform dependent? Nothing. They have lost a lot of business by not supplying a more universal format.

There are plenty of interchangeable media formats that they could have used that would have done everything this "app" does while opening it up to users who refuse to buy into the cult of apple.

[wittdooley]

They're just too funky. We're used to a mouse and keyboard. And a screen that stands up on it's own.

"Too Funky?"

I don't even know what that means. I think you keep comparing the iPad to a PC, and simply put, it isn't meant to be a PC. They're completely different devices. But if you want to type with a keyboard on the iPad, guess what? You can, and easily, with any Bluetooth enabled keyboard. The touch screen eliminates any need for a mouse. It's like a track pad, but better.

People also thought you could never do an FPS on a console. The Call of Duty and Halo Franchises would seem to have countered that notion fairly well.

I used to rile against the iPod when it came out. I had the Creative MP3 player, and later another Creative MP3 Player, and they I finally got an iPod. I would never go back. The iPod is one of the most revolutionary devices of my lifetime, and there's a reason people don't ask "what are you listening to on your MP3 player" but instead ask, "what's the last thing you listened to on your iPod." Not only that, but BECAUSE of the iPod the App Store, another absolutely revolutionary way to conduct eCommerce, exists.

I don't "get" the hate. Apple sets the bar. Others then approach that bar 2-3 years after Apple sets it. And then as they near it, Apple raises the bar again. Why the hate when, if anything, Apple only pushes other brands harder to innovate?

[wittdooley]

There are plenty of interchangeable media formats that they could have used that would have done everything this "app" does while opening it up to users who refuse to buy into the cult of apple.

Do any of them provide the security of iBooks2 or a built in marketplace like the App Store? <--- Real Question, Don't know the answer.

[Defenestratus]

You know... I've never quite understood the iPod/iPad hate. I understand a bit more why people don't like Macs, but for the mobile devices, I don't quite get it. iPods and iPads are simply the best products at what they do and they're not egregiously priced.


YOU think they are the best.

I think they are rubbish.

I also think that a lot of the android ecosystem is rubbish - but the fact of the matter is, it offers enough variation in both hardware and software so that I can get the experience that I demand.

Apple falls short in almost every regard to how I want my device to operate. iOS looks dated and stale. I don't like that my homescreens have to be an ugly jumble of launcher icons. Ugly. I don't like the fact that I only can run apps that Apple has approved. I don't like the fact that I have to pretty much use the device exactly how Apple says I have to use it, instead of how I want to use it.

Plus, I can't stand the small screens and stupid aspect ratio of their devices.

Consumer choice - its a wonderful thing.

[Defenestratus]

Do any of them provide the security of iBooks2 or a built in marketplace like the App Store? <--- Real Question, Don't know the answer.

I'm not familiar with the iBooks "security system" so I cannot comment on it - but digital publishers have been doing business in this marketplace for years with success.

Plus, I'm sure there are plenty of ways to circumvent Apple's "security". There always is.

[eldargal]

I hate Apple products as much as the next PC girl, but this really isn't the place for it.:) Getting back to the digital codex, everyone who has actually bought it seems quite impressed. One or two people here, a few more on Warseer, a couple in my local gaming circle, all very impressed with it. Price aside, at least GW are putting some effort into it.

[Mr Mystery]

Ahoy-hoy.

Just a quick question....to those bemoaning it only being on a single platform.....and specifically, those who appears to have decided that it's some kind of tailored and targetted personal attack....

Why have you decided that this product won't be ported over to other platforms? Or is it just another excuse for a cheap shot, and another opportunity to declare yourself a winner over the corporate beast that is GW when they do inevitably release it on other platforms, declaring it to be a direct response to your whinging, even though it's most likely already in production?

[wittdooley]

Apple falls short in almost every regard to how I want my device to operate. iOS looks dated and stale. I don't like that my homescreens have to be an ugly jumble of launcher icons. Ugly. I don't like the fact that I only can run apps that Apple has approved. I don't like the fact that I have to pretty much use the device exactly how Apple says I have to use it, instead of how I want to use it.



So.... You're basically looking for a PC in a tablet? I'd argue that isn't the function of an iPad, or most other tablets for that matter. That seems to be where this is getting twisted. I don't quite know what the alternative for a home screen is? The Android tablets I've seen operate pretty much the same way, as does the Kindle Fire (and yes, I know it's an Android system). How WOULD you like to use your tablet?



Plus, I can't stand the small screens and stupid aspect ratio of their devices.



Are there other tablets with a larger screen than the iPad? Or with higher resolution? I was under the assumption that the Retina screen for the iPad 3 had a higher native resolution than most PC monitors?

EDIT: As an aside, I think the uniformity and familiarity with how the iPad/iPod menus function from generation to generation is a major part of their appeal. I imagine in 5 years when we're on the iPhone 10S 8G the menus will looks similar enough to what we presently have with i0S 5 that I'll be able to hop on my phone easily and comfortably and know 'how to do stuff.' That can't really be said for the evolution of other OSs on phones.

[lattd]

Looks promising and for all the people complaining about the £5 price rise how many codex's do you know that have 360 view of models and some of the other funky stuff you can do in this digital format, plus they actually added a glossary, and a search feature so type the word you want and it will find the page does remove some hassle.

[gendoikari87]

People also thought you could never do an FPS on a console. The Call of Duty and Halo Franchises would seem to have countered that notion fairly well.

Warning: <- This person is a PC fanboi and obviously biased

Pfffffft. you can't reliably do headshots with a controller. FPS's on consoles are for nubs. Consoles are for RPG's and platformers.


I don't even know what that means. I think you keep comparing the iPad to a PC, and simply put, it isn't meant to be a PC. They're completely different devices. But if you want to type with a keyboard on the iPad, guess what? You can, and easily, with any Bluetooth enabled keyboard. The touch screen eliminates any need for a mouse. It's like a track pad, but better.

That's nice about the keyboard, but if it's not supposed to be PC what IS it supposed to be? An ultra advanced E book/notepad?

[wittdooley]

That's nice about the keyboard, but if it's not supposed to be PC what IS it supposed to be? An ultra advanced E book/notepad?

I think that's probably the key question. It's a great, great eReader. But then it's more than that. It does a lot of gaming really well (nothing exceptional, IMO) but then, it's more than that. It's fantastic for travelling and watching videos on the drive to Adepticon. But then, it's more than that. For me, it's what nearly all of my internet browsing is done on.

And yeah, I've posted plenty of BoLS posts from the crapper :D.

I know it's not trying to be a PC, but rather an extension of one. I guess that's why the customizablity doesn't bother me a ton. I really happen to love iOS. For me, and for what I want out of my phone and tablet, it's damn near perfect.

FWIW, I couldn't imagine playing an RTS or an MMORPG or Diablo III on any of my consoles. Something about it just doesn't "feel" right. It acutally sounds awful. I was right with you regarding FPS's until Quake III came out, and my PC couldn't keep up with the elite gaming rigs. Then Halo dropped. Since then, I've been 100% about shooters on the consoles, despite losing a touch of accuracy and having to deal with quick-scoping in CoD.

[gendoikari87]

the problem i have with shooters on consoles is a personal one, I'm a sniper, even ran a platoon on homefront for TAW. and to me joy sticks are very clumsy and hard to control, a mouse, get's em right between the eye.

Also, yeah RTS's I play on computer as well as diablo style RPG's, Xenogears, chronotriggers, final fantasy, lost Odyssey, breath of fire, ect, ect, and the like I play on console.

I'm not dating myself am I.

[Lancel]

Annnnd I suspect this is why we haven't gotten a PDF copy of Codex: Sisters of Battle. With this little revelation I have to wonder if they'll even bother with a hard copy now. I suspect what they'll do is another "minor" release where they release something similar for the Sisters as a compilation of the four or so White Dwarf issues that had various content for them.

Somehow it feels weird that they're coming out with this right before the prophesied 6th Edition, given the tendency for Codex: Space Marines to always be the first codex, but I guess we've already determined that's not happening this time around. Just feels weird. It may mean it will be some time before Codex: Space Marines gets a new print codex.

[gendoikari87]

Annnnd I suspect this is why we haven't gotten a PDF copy of Codex: Sisters of Battle. With this little revelation I have to wonder if they'll even bother with a hard copy now. I suspect what they'll do is another "minor" release where they release something similar for the Sisters as a compilation of the four or so White Dwarf issues that had various content for them.

Somehow it feels weird that they're coming out with this right before the prophesied 6th Edition, given the tendency for Codex: Space Marines to always be the first codex, but I guess we've already determined that's not happening this time around. Just feels weird. It may mean it will be some time before Codex: Space Marines gets a new print codex.

didn't someone say this edition is updateable?

[gendoikari87]

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/07/neon-genesis-evangelion-sh-06d-android-release-date/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook

yeah they need to release this for the android. That phone trumps iPad.

[Denzark]

I have bought the painting guide. To trial the format. I like it. It is quite functionable and probably easier to follow WHILST painting than a book.

Bearing in mind my last PC I bought in 2006 was £2.6k, I think high end PCs rape Mac products for what PC should be used for - Ebay, porn and games that are best with mice - ie FPS or Strategy.

But don't wrote off the Ipad. Particularly if you can't afford one. Its a very plebian thing to do.