Chapter Champ vs Command Squad

[Brandoncbaker]

Im building my White Scars command squad and was curious what are the pros and cons from a Chapter Champ to a Regular Command Squad marine aside from wound allocation. Am I missing something obvious which I'm offer guilty of? Thanks for any replies

[DarkLink]

SM honor guard are absurdly overpriced. Command squads are still expensive, but much, much more useful.

CC upgrades are too expensive, and the points add up very quickly, but taking lots of combi and/or special weapons gives you a lot of firepower.

[helvexis]

bike command squads are disgusting in the amount of firepower they can take t5 with feelnopain and a stormshield .. .absurdly expensive ... but takes so much to kill thats my 2 cents worth

[Brandoncbaker]

Thanks for the replys, I guess my question is worded correctly. I was wondering what advantages A Chapter Champion has over a regular member of the Command Squad?

[Wildeybeast]

He gets WS5, a power weapon and combat shield for 15 pts whereas the others have to pay 15 pts just for a power weapon. Other than that, he has no advantages and is stuck with the power weapon and combat shield, he can't take any of the equipment the rest can. Personally, I've never bothered with one as I'd rather they all had storm sheilds.

[Kawauso]

He gets WS5, a power weapon and combat shield for 15 pts whereas the others have to pay 15 pts just for a power weapon. Other than that, he has no advantages and is stuck with the power weapon and combat shield, he can't take any of the equipment the rest can. Personally, I've never bothered with one as I'd rather they all had storm sheilds.

As written I don't see anything that prevents the veteran which upgrades to the Champion from taking any other upgrades...works that way in Army Builder (not that it's never wrong) and that how I've always used it/seen it used.

[helvexis]

probably the same reason the apothecary cant take upgrades he is no w a champion instead of a veteran?

[The AKH]

probably the same reason the apothecary cant take upgrades he is no w a champion instead of a veteran?

I agree with this - also the fact that in the similar Honour Guard entry, the Chapter Champion has a specific wargear line - and the line about Relic Blades says "any model".

The wargear options in the Command Squad entry reference Veterans, so it stands to reason that the squad members who are not Veterans by statline (the Company Champion and Apothecary) are stuck with the wargear that they are supplied with.

[Kawauso]

I understand that, but the Apothecary comes with the squad.

You can upgrade a veteran with, say, a storm shield, and then upgrade him to a champion.

The champion gains a power weapon and combat shield, but he doesn't lose any other wargear (such as his grenades).
Which is why in something like Army Builder when you load him up that way he gets a goofy amount of gear: a power weapon, a chainsword, a boltgun or bolt pistol and a combat shield.

Also explains why the combat shield that comes with the Command Squad box set has a bolt pistol strapped on. :P

[The AKH]

Combat shield rules actually state that it's designed to be used with a bolt pistol. So the one in the Command Squad kit is WYSIWYG.

I suppose if you add upgrades in that order it becomes possible... which, hey, by all means.

The question that raises (don't have my codex handy so I can't verify) - does the order that upgrades are listed in the Codex have any bearing on the way you pick wargear? If we presume that an option listed before another overrides the latter option, then the Champion "upgrade" might invalidate other wargear pickings by virtue of "upgrade order". That's pure speculation on my part, though.

[Kawauso]

Combat shield rules actually state that it's designed to be used with a bolt pistol. So the one in the Command Squad kit is WYSIWYG.

I suppose if you add upgrades in that order it becomes possible... which, hey, by all means.

The question that raises (don't have my codex handy so I can't verify) - does the order that upgrades are listed in the Codex have any bearing on the way you pick wargear? If we presume that an option listed before another overrides the latter option, then the Champion "upgrade" might invalidate other wargear pickings by virtue of "upgrade order". That's pure speculation on my part, though.

The combat shield fluff says it's designed to be used with a bolt pistol - has no bearing on the rules for it, though. The only rule it has is that it confers a 6++ save.

I wouldn't imagine that the order in which you pick options overrides anything. If the champion 'upgrade' invalidated wargear, then he loses his pistol and grenades in the process of becoming a champion.

This is the way I've always understood it, at least.