Second Flyer Wave

[eldargal]

Little rumour about a second batch of flyers from a couple of sources:

July/August or just 'later this year' (speculation: November)
Voidraven, Tau and Eldar flyer included.

[daboarder]

sigh....oh harpy where are you

[eldargal]

Well, we don't know that the three above are all that are coming in the wave (though I admit as the first wave is three kits it would br reasonable to assume). Not to mention thre may be another wave early next year for all we know.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Suddenly, PLANES! :D

[SotonShades]

All makes sense I guess. Would be interesting to see how this interacts with the rumours of both Xenos races getting their own codex early in 6th. WD giving us the rules to be able to use the Tau and Eldar craft would have to give more than a couple of hints at what to expect when we see the new codex. That said, onlt regular Tau/Eldar player I know (DrLove) all ready has too many Eldar flyers :P Well, until I get hold of my new Orky jets!

[DrLove42]

Crap. DOn't release all 3 at the same time, I don't want to buy 6 aircraft in one go....

Least by then 6th ed will be out so we'll know if they're any good

[Ulthwé Guardian]

This all makes sense, thanks again Eldargirl. Been looking forward to the Voidraven release since last year.

Those Voidravens will do some serious damage, I think enemy players will soon learn to hate Dark Eldar all over again! lol

[Daemonette666]

I would have expected to see a Chaos Marine Flyer or Fast Skimmer Transport that can be used by the General Chaos Space Marine Codex, and the new Chaos Legions Codex.

[eldargal]

I believe a Chaos flyer is coming with the codex rather than in a seperate wave.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The Dudedragon, as I am now calling it.

[MajorWesJanson]

sigh....oh harpy where are you

Probably waiting for another Nid wave with a Spore pod and character models for Doom and Parasite.

As for these three models? Nice. Will have to get 1 Raven and 2-3 Tau planes.

Chaos flier will likely be with their dex, a dragon daemon engine thing. I wonder if Chaos Daemons can take it as well, if it is a daemon engine.


November ought to be Hobbit stuff, to lead into the movie. I could see a trio of fliers as a December release, in addition to scenery and bundles, as last year they did a few Fantasy monster kits in december.

[eldargal]

I may have misinterpreted what I was told, the three flyers may not be coming in a wave this year, perhaps just the Voidraven. Trying to get some clarification but just a warning in case.

[AnEnemy]

I'll take two Void Ravens to go alongside my one Razorwing. Thanks.

[Defenestratus]

Whatever the eldar flyer is, I kind of hope its not the nightwing or the phoenix.

[DrLove42]

I think it'll be different. Everyone was saying "how can they make another Ork fighter, they've already got a Fighta and a Bomma - so will they just copy FW's rules?" and then GW managed to make not 1, but 3 brand new rule sets and models....

[eldargal]

Agreed Defenestratus, and I also agree with DrLove, I doubt it will happen. We will get some kind of Eldar fighter and perhaps an Eldar bomber with new names but roughly analogous to the FW kits (like dakkajet=FWfighta) but not copies so people with both won't be left out. We know next to nothing about the Eldar kit, I do wonder if it will be dual kit or single kit. Can't imagine it being a triple kit like the Ork one but who knows. I might ask around actually.

[Defenestratus]

Agreed Defenestratus, and I also agree with DrLove, I doubt it will happen. We will get some kind of Eldar fighter and perhaps an Eldar bomber with new names but roughly analogous to the FW kits (like dakkajet=FWfighta) but not copies so people with both won't be left out. We know next to nothing about the Eldar kit, I do wonder if it will be dual kit or single kit. Can't imagine it being a triple kit like the Ork one but who knows. I might ask around actually.

Well that's good news to me.

While you're asking around, ask them why Eldar don't yet have a transport that they can assault out of? You figure that the most advanced culture in the universe would figure out how to strap a forwards-facing ramp on a wave serpent.

[eldargal]

Sadly none of my sources of information seem to get any news about rules whatsoever, all I get is little bits of info about new models.:(

[Admiral Kenaris]

I really hope they make the Vulture 40k legal. If so I'll be making a very expensive trip to the Forgeworld website.

[MajorWesJanson]

I really hope they make the Vulture 40k legal. If so I'll be making a very expensive trip to the Forgeworld website.

That would be nice. Bump the Vendetta up by about 25 points, and add the Vulture as a 1-3 option in Heavy support.

The nice thing about the Dakkajet and other rules is that they work not only for the plastic kit, but you can use them for the FW models as well. The Fighta Bomba kit from FW works fine for the bomber rules, and the Ork Fighta makes a fine Dakkajet. I'd guess the Eldar Flier rules may also represent the Nightwing fine as well if the pattern follows.

Not in a wave? Well the Void Raven is an odd duck right now, as besides it, the only Dark Eldar kits left really are some characters. Tau are likely early next year, so a flier for them could wait to come with the book. Eldar maybe late next year means they could either wait for the book and suffer without fliers for a while, or get an early flier release.

Who knows. The pair of 5 saturday months this year is messing all sorts of schedules up.

[ksoh75]

The new rumor just posted debunks this if it's true that there are no more waves.

That means my Tau flyer will come out with it's army

[SotonShades]

The new rumor just posted debunks this if it's true that there are no more waves.

That means my Tau flyer will come out with it's army

I wouldn't say it debunks it. At the moment they are both equally valid if contradictory. Until one of them proves to be true, you have to take both with a certain small measure of a certain well known seasoning.

[ksoh75]

I wouldn't say it debunks it. At the moment they are both equally valid if contradictory. Until one of them proves to be true, you have to take both with a certain small measure of a certain well known seasoning.

Thus...the "if it's true" in my statement....until I see, I'll believe it


But then...if Tau should of been out this year too and you see how some of us got excited only to be kicked in the groin and told early 2013....lol

[eldargal]

Personally I think the no waves rumour is utterly nonsense, there is no way GW would do something so detrimental to regular sales accross the range.

Re: the flyers, I checked with sone of the more reliable rumourmongers and he says he heard that there would be a second flyer wave but he is also hearing that they may be out with the books instead. Except the Voidraven which is still coming lter this year. Basically no one is sure what is going on as far as I can tell.:rolleyes:

[eldargal]

Some clarification from Harry:




. . . But the Voidraven is coming . . . right?
Yes



Harry might mean that combination is not the wave- could be the voidraven just with another combination of flyers in the next wave so don't panic just yet.
That was what I meant.

[TSINI]

I really hope they make the Vulture 40k legal. If so I'll be making a very expensive trip to the Forgeworld website.

I've got 2 of the buggers already, im hoping to take one loaded with twin punisher cannons to a local tourney as they have FW allowed. Would be nice to see the valkyries, vendettas and vultures reach their true flyer status in regular 40k, 6th better deliver!

[DrLove42]

Problem is Vendettas and Valks are already cheap for what they are. The Ork and Marin fliers are relativly expensive for what they are under current rules, suggesting they get better next edition.

Also the guard stuff doesn't have the air rules (Aerial Asault or Supersonic) in their rules. If they gain these, they had better get a points price raise....

[MajorWesJanson]

Valks are priced fine. Vendettas need about a 25 point bump as is. Maybe make the missiles the default and make the TLLC a 25 point upgrade.

Vulture with twin punishers? I run it with 4 Rocket pods, as they are defensive weapons.

Harry over at warseer shot down the idea of Void Raven + Tau + Eldar fliers as a wave. Probably the Eldar flier is the odd one out. Maybe Deffkoptas or the Harpy in it's place?

[robrodgers46]

Valks are priced fine. Vendettas need about a 25 point bump as is. Maybe make the missiles the default and make the TLLC a 25 point upgrade.

Vulture with twin punishers? I run it with 4 Rocket pods, as they are defensive weapons.

Harry over at warseer shot down the idea of Void Raven + Tau + Eldar fliers as a wave. Probably the Eldar flier is the odd one out. Maybe Deffkoptas or the Harpy in it's place?

Hydra/Artillery kit? IG has gotten anything new in a couple of years iirc.

r

[inquisitorsog]

Personally I think the no waves rumour is utterly nonsense, there is no way GW would do something so detrimental to regular sales accross the range.

The "no waves" rumor doesn't seem to me to be contradiction. The "no waves" rumor as I understand it means "we won't release rules for models before we've got the models at least close to ship" and maybe even a return to more rules in WD and Chapter Approved like omnibuses.

Which means "waves" are still there, just the "ship a codex with some minis then release a second wave of the codex's minis later" won't be.

Releasing the rules for 3 flyers now along with the kits and then releasing three more later with their rules and kits still fits that rumor.

[Admiral Kenaris]

I've got 2 of the buggers already, im hoping to take one loaded with twin punisher cannons to a local tourney as they have FW allowed. Would be nice to see the valkyries, vendettas and vultures reach their true flyer status in regular 40k, 6th better deliver!


The problem is after seeing that cool Apoc. Vulture formation I want at least three of them. Dropping a strength 5, AP 3, no cover saves allowed Apocalyptic Barrage on some enemies sounds like good times to me. Another issue would be that I would like to outfit my Vultures with the 6 bomb payload but I doubt the Apoc. Barrage template is going to find it's way into regular 40k games.

[billytwix]

no uuber pics yet? man - my DE need to rest peacefully with a voidraven.....

[Kawauso]

no uuber pics yet? man - my DE need to rest peacefully with a voidraven.....

It's still an early rumour. The 'first' wave isn't even out yet.

There will be pics about a week before these kits hit the shelves unless we are especially lucky - if the rumour happens to be accurate.

[eldargal]

I've asked around, no rumourmonger I'm in communication with and none of my factory sources have heard anything abotu waves ending.

[DrBored]

I've asked around, no reumourmonger I'm in communication with and none of my factory sources have heard anything abotu waves ending.

This doesn't surprise me. There's all this hubbub about waves going away and GW wanting to secure their IP on models... I can understand GW wanting to do this, but their current business model doesn't support it.

One rumor suggests GW will have all models done for a range, so that at least they have their picture in the Codex.. If this is the case, and people see the models without being able to buy them.. well, they'll have a decent picture of what to expect, so they can just convert their own stuff from those images. Doesn't make it any different from the hobbyists perspective.

[eldargal]

From Warseer:

Hears some new info...

I expect releases for tau, eldar, dark eldar before end of August.

Based on what I've heard/seen

Eldar are getting a dual kit. A fighter, bomber/heavy attack, and transport were in the works. The heavy attack craft and transport most share a design aesthetic. So this is what I am expecting.

Tau are getting a fighter/gunship in a single kit. Roughly the size of a Stormtalon. Has new missile options. Not the existing tau seekers.
Rule wise ( remember Im not good at getting accurate rule info, so add your own salt and keep it off the forum please) its supposed to take advantage of markerlights in a different way...allowing for indirect fire on any target in range with a markerlights on it from any other tau unit. This is with all it's weaponry, not just missiles. Or so the rumor goes.
Tau have a transport flyer also which should be out with the codex, not before.

Dark eldar should finally see their bomber.

And the most interesting bit, which some may have already had a hint of, there is a third Necron flyer, it uses one of the sprues from the new scythe kit...but don't hold your breath for it...I don't expect it until 2013-...ish....


Cheers

Also regarding the supposed end of waves:


There has been a lot of chatter being posted about the end to waves. I want to chime in and say this isnt entirely accurate. But the way gw is thinking about wave releases now will make more sense to the community...I think.

[DrBored]

Here's hoping stickmonkey's right!

And here's hoping that what he means about wave releases means that GW will release all kits for a Codex in good time instead of waiting years to release something that most hobbyists have already converted!

[MarneusCalgar]

Hope then he´s right!

[DrLove42]

An eldar transport would be interesting. Bet it still wont have assault ramps though :-P

[JMichael]

I've asked around, no rumourmonger I'm in communication with and none of my factory sources have heard anything abotu waves ending.

Lucky...I want factory sources! >jealous<

[Mr Mystery]

Ah. Engage Smug Mode.

Regarding the possibility of the third necron flier, I myself started a thread about the possibility of this not two days ago, in 40k General.

There's superfluous cables supplied with the kit, and the design itself suggests the engine section is ready for a 'bolt on' (it has pegs and holes on the engine exhasts, a design cue not seen elsewhere in the Necron range).

Also, where the Tesla Destructor mounts is oddly shaped, being like a half funnell. The Destructors mount nicely, using post and hole...but it does suggest something else is meant to go there. Furthermore, the whole underside is remarkably undetailed, again suggresting the flat area is designed to be covered up.

For those who cannot be arsed to go find my thread, pics of what I'm gibbering about are below!

Now, what role this new aircraft might fulfil? Not a clue myself. There's the possibility of a more anti-infantry type craft. But it would be hard to top just whacking another Tesla Destructor on there....

[musical-fool]

If the end of waves is to be brought in with 6th, would we see the end of a monthly army release for any one of the universes? I just find it extremely un-businessminded to release everything for an army every month.

Is it just me?

[lattd]

I believe this rumour has become a bit cross fed, i believe the original rumour was met to say that there will be no guessing what a model looks like as there will be pictures of them in the codex but they wont be released all in one go.

[Defenestratus]

An eldar transport would be interesting. Bet it still wont have assault ramps though :-P

If it doesn't (or have a way to assault after moving), then I'm just going to commit seppukku I think.

[Kawauso]

I don't know that I would be hoping for assault ramps on a transport/heavy gunship flyer for the Eldar - just think of how many points it'd cost.

Then again if it gets the normal Eldar vehicle trickery, it will probably be worth it.

[Mr Mystery]

If it doesn't (or have a way to assault after moving), then I'm just going to commit seppukku I think.

Why the general obsession with giving Eldar assault ramps? You want speedy fighty punchy Eldar, just go Dark and be done with it.

Eldar armour is horrendous enough to deal with, without it being able to simply vomit troops straight into combat. Not calling it beardy as is, btw. A tricked out Eldar tank is extremely pricey in terms of points! But to add assault ramps to that would just make them dull as dishwater, requiring little tactical finesse beyond picking the right upgrades, and loading in a well hard squad before the battle starts.

[Defenestratus]

Why the general obsession with giving Eldar assault ramps? You want speedy fighty punchy Eldar, just go Dark and be done with it.

Eldar armour is horrendous enough to deal with, without it being able to simply vomit troops straight into combat. Not calling it beardy as is, btw. A tricked out Eldar tank is extremely pricey in terms of points! But to add assault ramps to that would just make them dull as dishwater, requiring little tactical finesse beyond picking the right upgrades, and loading in a well hard squad before the battle starts.

I hate the fluff of the DE, I hate the look, I hate the "sailboats in space" theme to them. If its possible to be racist against a fictional race, then I am a Dark Eldar bigot. Tau come in a close second.

Wave Serpents are ridiculously easy to blow out of the sky without holofields. You ever try a missile launcher or an autocannon? Both of those are superb at wave serpent removal services.

Simple solution for an Eldar assault vehicle ... get rid of the heavy weapon turret on the Serpent. Add assault ramp.

voila!

Alas I should not wishlist. Its the by-product of weak resolve :P

[Mr Mystery]

And the only unit I can think of to fully benefit from this are Banshees. Scorpions can infiltrate, and have better armour. Banshees do need some care as they hit fairly hard, but can't soak up attrition at all.

So, Wave Serpent with Assault Ramp and Holofields. What can I realistically do to stop it's payload of Power Weapon wielding nastiness hitting my line? Precious little. Boost it up the flank, vomit out troops, and we're right back to 3rd Ed Rhino Rush, which wasn't any fun at all.

Sorry dude. Not meant to be a personal attack, just really don't want this to happen!

[eldargal]

Read what Defenstratus says, a wave serpent without a weapon turret and with assault ramps. Nothing about holofields as well, that was a seperate point. Even then I'm not sure how an AV12 transport with energy field, holofields and assault ramp is anymore overpowered than an AV14 transport all round with assault ramps at every access point, PotMS and twin linked heavy bolters and lascannons. The key is appropriate costing. If WS could take holofields to get vaguely near what a Land Raider has you are paying 180pts (TL Shurican cannon, TL bright lances (inferior to lascannon) and holofields). For 70 points more you get +2 front AV, +2 Side AV, +4 rear AV, +1BS, +2access points, the ability to assault out of the vehicle and the ability to fire one more weapon than usual, at a different target.

I know comparing unit pricing accross different codices is silly, but I don't understand why htere is always such a fuss when people propose a simple, common sense solution to make-up for the fact that Eldar transports are obscnelky overpriced at present.

[Mr Mystery]

Easy now! Not saying the guy isn't entitled to his opinion, just expressing my own.

Hell, far as I'm concerned Assault Ramps as a whole should go. Driving any well armoured or otherwise protected vehicle into the midst of the enemy, then vomiting a well hard assault unit just where you want them is hardly encouraging tactical thought.

Keep it to open topped vehicles. It makes sense for the most part, and their general fragility means tactical forethought plays a bigger role in their usage.

Seriously not having a pop at any one person here, just discussing the overall requirement!

[eldargal]

That did sound a lot stronger than I meant it to, now that I read it back, sorry about that. Basically the issue is that the Wave Serpent is currently obscenely overpriced, it either needs a major buff or a significant price drop. Or both. Giving it assault ramps would be one way of buffing it. I'm not to keen on the idea of assault ramps myself but as they are a reality it just seems bizarre that the most advanced race in the galaxy (along with the Necrons) haven't figured out how to charge out the bloody door.:rolleyes:

[Mr Mystery]

All part of a mature discussion, and no offence taken!

Techwise is does seem a little daft, but style wise for the Eldar, it just doesn't quite fit in terms of ramps.

I was browsing the Epic Section the other day, and spotted that Super Heavy Portal Tank the Eldar have. Now, a Flier or some such which could drop Webway portals or somesuch? That could be cool, if a little infringey on the Dark Eldar!

So, back on topic. Speculation about what we're going to see!

Tau : Standard fighter type, and some kind of Drone Transport, potentially dropping a Drone Minefield (seems inkeeping with the Tau to me)

[flekkzo]

Read what Defenstratus says, a wave serpent without a weapon turret and with assault ramps. Nothing about holofields as well, that was a seperate point. Even then I'm not sure how an AV12 transport with energy field, holofields and assault ramp is anymore overpowered than an AV14 transport all round with assault ramps at every access point, PotMS and twin linked heavy bolters and lascannons. The key is appropriate costing. If WS could take holofields to get vaguely near what a Land Raider has you are paying 180pts (TL Shurican cannon, TL bright lances (inferior to lascannon) and holofields). For 70 points more you get +2 front AV, +2 Side AV, +4 rear AV, +1BS, +2access points, the ability to assault out of the vehicle and the ability to fire one more weapon than usual, at a different target.

I know comparing unit pricing accross different codices is silly, but I don't understand why htere is always such a fuss when people propose a simple, common sense solution to make-up for the fact that Eldar transports are obscnelky overpriced at present.

I've felt that 40k is becoming less and less diverse (stat lines, available types of units per army, etc) so I would like to see Eldar becoming more and more elite (not GK elite mind you) and specialized. First up, their BS should be higher. Vehicles should have BS 5. They also should have no higher AV than 12, but tricks like holo-fields etc. High S long range weapons. But few shots. Deciding what to shoot should be important rather than a "I shoot everything and see what happens" SM approach.

Also one aspect should have an inherit "always be allowed to assault" special rule. Either HB or SS. Like a super-fleet. Like a machine-spirit for assaulting. Narrow focused elites. Not army wide rules. That's how I'd like my Eldar :)

[Defenestratus]

So, Wave Serpent with Assault Ramp and Holofields. What can I realistically do to stop it's payload of Power Weapon wielding nastiness hitting my line? Precious little. Boost it up the flank, vomit out troops, and we're right back to 3rd Ed Rhino Rush, which wasn't any fun at all.

Wave Serpents cannot, and never have been able to get holofields. They have an cool energy field that basically neuters anything > str 8 and throws more than one dice for penetration. Its a nice trick, but lascannons, vindicators, and rail guns aren't what are best at taking down a wave serpent. Missile launchers are best, and in the current meta, there are a-plenty. Autocannons also work well. Anything str 7/8 works amazingly well. The falcons are rather resilient (although I'm sure that SM player whinging will nerf the holofields in the new edition) but the wave serpents, as a transport, are only moderately more resilient than a storm raven (which, co-incidentally, has an assault ramp, holds a dreadnought, and has more weapons strapped to it than it can shoot in a round, oh and ceramite all for a modest price increase over a tooled out wave serpent that has less guns, vulnerable backside, no PoTMS, no assault ramp, no skies of blood, and cannot ever put something like assault terminators in its hold).

As for what I'd like to put in a wave serpent to assault out of.

Banshees, Harlequins, Seer Council, Phoenix Lords, Yriel...

[Ignis]

I'm glad I will be able to get an eldar flyer without giving FW my first born son.

[Defenestratus]

I'm glad I will be able to get an eldar flyer without giving FW my first born son.

Well, a nightwing or phoenix is really only about $20 USD more than a storm raven after the price hikes :P

[Ignis]

Ha that's true I guess either way i'm having to fork out around the same amount of money. Although the extra 20 saved will leave the wife with less reservations.:D

[lattd]

The thing is eldar having assault transports is part of their fluff when they use webway portals in tanks to spew out troops.

[eldargal]

Actually the webway portal transport is an Engine of Vaul, a superheavy. Eldar have always had falcon chassis transports.

[daboarder]

I always figured that humanity was the only race psychotic enough to charge out of a metal box with absolutely no idea what galaxy terror was waiting on the other side, every other race has more brains. Of course I love being said humanity.

edit: look at it this way, one of the keyt problems with the normandy landing craft was that those doors opend towards the enemy with the troops bunched up behind them. To the enemy this is a big sign that translates to "aim here, be patient." suicidal attacks may work for marines and humanity with numbers on their side, but their not the best idea for a race trying to conserve its numbers.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Mehtul bawkses!

[LostInTheDark]

That did sound a lot stronger than I meant it to, now that I read it back, sorry about that. Basically the issue is that the Wave Serpent is currently obscenely overpriced, it either needs a major buff or a significant price drop. Or both. Giving it assault ramps would be one way of buffing it. I'm not to keen on the idea of assault ramps myself but as they are a reality it just seems bizarre that the most advanced race in the galaxy (along with the Necrons) haven't figured out how to charge out the bloody door.:rolleyes:

You could always integrate the ye olde epic rules where the wave serpent could "fire" its field to stun the enemy (or something similar, it was a long time ago!). So you would have to choose either fire away your shield and get a counts as assault ramp, but lose the protection for a turn, or keep the protection and sneak out the back :)

[Aetaosrau]

You could always integrate the ye olde epic rules where the wave serpent could "fire" its field to stun the enemy (or something similar, it was a long time ago!). So you would have to choose either fire away your shield and get a counts as assault ramp, but lose the protection for a turn, or keep the protection and sneak out the back :)

So how does that work, let me guess it spins on the spot really fast throwing out its field like a exploding star and its men also get chucked out as a result :p

sound cool to me:D