Dakkajet - Who would or why would you take it?

[planet psyrum]

So, I just played a ork player that had put in an order for the dakka jet, and proxied it during our game. My question is why would anyone take this vehicle? An AV 10 vehicle with little chance of getting cover, except if it turbo boosts, in an army that is already poor at shooting, makes no sense to me. Sweet, you get 9 str 6AP 4 shots. You will hit 4.5, and wound 3.75 times. It would be good against 'ard boyz, scouts, elf, and necron warriors. Except for the point that a 5 man immortal squad could render it useless for the whole game. Seriously, his first turn he turbo boosted it to a corner, I had a solar pulse go off, so he couldn't see, my turn 1 I immobolized it with a 5 man plus eldritch lance. It should have been blown up right then and there. But, we forgot about the skimmer rule where on the turn you turbo boost and get immobolized, the vehicle wrecks. Next turn, I shot at it with the same unit, scored a cannot shoot. Turn 3, I assaulted it with an overlord, and blew it up. I didn't feel bad because it was only a proxy, but c'mon, a AV 10 vehicle floating in the sky. Random bolter fire could blow it up.

Two ways it could work:

1. You reserve it, and you just so happen to get it on the turn you Waagh! and you fire 18 shots.

2. 6th edition makes flyers harder to kill.

If, either of those things don't happen. I will have a 5 man scout squad deal with it.

Dakkajet FAIL!!!

Now the bombers, I would like to find there rules.

[Black Hydra]

Uh, immobilizing skimmers doesn't wreck them. Only flyers are destroyed when immobilized and that's only apocalypse. But yeah they need to be tougher.

Edit: My bad. If they moved flat out and you score an immobilized hit, it gets wrecked.

[DarkLink]

Well, it does if they moved flat out.

[Black Hydra]

Yeah I added that in. Also, can you squadron up the Bomma's? That would go a long way towards helping them out. I know Stormtalons don't squadron up, so that sucks for them. I forgot if Doomscythes do.

[planet psyrum]

Lets be honest, these jets are made for 6th edition. The only way they will become useful is if that evasion score enters the game. To hit a jet going supersonic should be almost impossible for a space marine bolter.

[Necron_Lord]

So far no flyers squadron up, including the new ones in the June WD.

[DarkLink]

The only way they will become useful is if that evasion score enters the game.

That leaked document isn't 6th ed, nor was it even a prototype. There likely isn't any evasion value or equivalent. That doesn't mean there are plenty of other ways to make skimmers better, though.

[planet psyrum]

That leaked document isn't 6th ed, nor was it even a prototype. There likely isn't any evasion value or equivalent. That doesn't mean there are plenty of other ways to make skimmers better, though.

This may be true, but they have to have something in mind to make an AV 10 flyer. Because that is just ridiculous. I hope there is some type of modifier. Because for a marine to have the same chance of hitting an ork in a horde as a flyer zooming at super-sconic speed, is a little off.

[Mr.Pickelz]

I'm personally up in the air about how they will perform within my speed freakz list, and based on looks i'm thinkin the bommer will offer more fun (crazy scatters and such) but a dakkajet that can either absorb firepower and/or distract my opponent, keeping my bikerz alive another turn, could be worth it. Could be...

[The AKH]

The Dakkajet can take an upgrade that gives it BS3 against other fast skimmers, so I'd wager it will see most use as a counter against the other new "flyers"/Razorwings/Valk'dettas/Stormravens.

[GrogDaTyrant]

I'm personally up in the air about how they will perform within my speed freakz list, and based on looks i'm thinkin the bommer will offer more fun (crazy scatters and such) but a dakkajet that can either absorb firepower and/or distract my opponent, keeping my bikerz alive another turn, could be worth it. Could be...

125 pts of bikers will absorb more firepower than one of those Ork planes.


Personally, I'm very *meh* about them. The models don't look very interesting, nor do they look particularly... 'orky.' It's a good effort, but mediocre and very half-arsed in my humble opinion. And rules-wise, they're very sub-par. Interesting for a extensive conversion/kitbash, not particularly engaging to use in a game. Perhaps if instead of 3 separate 'meh' entries, they actually made 1 entry with a colossal mess of options, it might be more inspiring to use.

[Black Hydra]

@GrogDaTyrant- I was thinking of using them as flyers for IG in Apoc. Since I'm doing a traitor IG army anyway, the bombas' orkiness is fine.

Anybody know if the ork flyers are close enough in size to the IG flyers?

[The AKH]

Depends which IG flyers you're talking about - I'd wager the new Ork plane is considerably slimmer and possibly shorter than the Valkyrie, but might be on par sizewise with a Lightning fighter. The Thunderbolt is considerably chunkier, and, well, the Marauder has structure points.

I saw someone point out in another thread that the Dakkajet could actually do a decent job of hunting Rhino chassis tanks/other APCs. I don't think its strenghts lie in anti-infantry use at all, to be honest.

[MajorWesJanson]

It's a mid-strength gun platform that is very fast and has better BS than most normal ork units. Keep it in your center rear to start, then zoom it up a flank to escort units or try to gt side shots on transports. The ability to move 36" in a turn is quite nice, allowing it to become a threat quickly. Zoom it up early in the enemies face to stall an advance, or lategame to contest an objective.

Rhino hulls are nice targets, as well as the 20 armor sides of chimaera hulls, 10 armor trukks and dark eldar transports. Landspeeders and other fliers are good prey as well, with armor 10 and 11. Strength 6 guns also make it easier to wound most other fast units, like bikers. It is also in the FA slot, while it competes with Storm Boyz, buggies, and Deffcoptas, it does not compete with lootas, kans, battlewagons, or deffdreads.

I'm also thinking of putting it with a pair or trio of missile deffcoptas, to open transports then shoot up the contents with pinning shots.

Supersonic and Aerial assault are only stopgaps for rules until proper flier rules come out. Then I expect fliers to simply have larger range bands- 12" combat, 24" cruising, 36" flat out. That would make the bomba limitation on no flat out make more sense, and give it a more acceptable range.

[DrLove42]

Have it turn up from reserve, hopefully turn 3 or so. Call your Waagh this turn. Thats 18 twinlinked shots at S6 and BS3. That'll kill nearly anything short of stupid armour.

Interestingly in Apoc games, none of its weapons are AA mounted (all the "fliers" in IA that are skimmers then fliers say they are specifically") so it still needs 6's to hurt other aircraft :P

[MajorWesJanson]

Have it turn up from reserve, hopefully turn 3 or so. Call your Waagh this turn. Thats 18 twinlinked shots at S6 and BS3. That'll kill nearly anything short of stupid armour.

Interestingly in Apoc games, none of its weapons are AA mounted (all the "fliers" in IA that are skimmers then fliers say they are specifically") so it still needs 6's to hurt other aircraft :P

For the moment, yes. I expect flier rules to change in the 6th edition rulebook though.

[Defenestratus]

Dakkajet - Who would or why would you take it?

Because you like the model?

Its as good a reason as any.

[planet psyrum]

Because you like the model?

Its as good a reason as any.

Yeah, it is a cool model. I like it best of any of the others. I'm not a waac player or anything, but I would be annoyed if I only got to shoot my shiny new guns, once a game, and only if i got first turn or reserved it.

I could see it used if you went second and reserved it. If, you came in on turn 3 or later, most of your ork army should be close to waagh! Range. And if that is the case, your opponents Target priority might changed, and the supporting fire squads may be dead or positioned where you could avoid them. That's when you drop in amd eiyher get the 18 shots or even the 9 shots can kill a marine or 3 scouts, but then contest late or force your opponent to adjust his plans. This is the only way I see them useful.

I had another thought. This flyer would be pointless in kill point games. On a decent turn, you may MAY blow up a rhino. Still wouldn't bet on it, though. Then it would be blown out of the sky. This leads me to thinking that kill points may be out of the game, or not as prevalent in 6th edition.

[the jeske]

Seriously, his first turn he turbo boosted it to a corner, I had a solar pulse go off, so he couldn't see, my turn 1 I immobolized it with a 5 man plus eldritch lance. It should have been blown up right then and there. But, we forgot about the skimmer rule where on the turn you turbo boost and get immobolized, the vehicle wrecks. Next turn, I shot at it with the same unit, scored a cannot shoot. Turn 3, I assaulted it with an overlord, and blew it up. I didn't feel bad because it was only a proxy, but c'mon, a AV 10 vehicle floating in the sky. Random bolter fire could blow it up.

Two ways it could work:

1. You reserve it, and you just so happen to get it on the turn you Waagh! and you fire 18 shots.

2. 6th edition makes flyers harder to kill.

If, either of those things don't happen. I will have a 5 man scout squad deal with it.

Dakkajet FAIL!!!

Now the bombers, I would like to find there rules.

dude technicly if someone is playing against a necron puls build then anything shoty [so IG , any form of razor gunline out of any meq codex] fails . those are good flyers [so better cover in the 6th]. yes you added them after buying other stuff[but you can be sure that GW is going to do everything to make the point of games go up] , but they are in a slot that doesnt realy have much competition . they work well out of reservs. just as others said.

ah the bombers . those actualy do fail .

[Snikrot64]

From what I read in the V6 rulebook (draft), everything relies on the Supersonic rule.

What it will do is more or less place an attack marker in your front arc, move at high speed, get a Flyer rule (which makes your Dodge characteristic rise from 3 to 6) and attack enemies around 2" of the attach marker.

That is - I think - the explanation for the high cost in points for the Burna and Blitza Bombas : with this Dodge value, enemies with a BS of 4 or less will hit you on a 6+ :) So go Supersonic on Turn 1, and in Turn 2 you should be able to drop your bombs on them.

If you prefer not to move too much, the simple fact of moving your ship will give it a +1 modifier to its Dodge value :) So Space Marines will hit it on a 4+ for instance.

So what I'll do is buy a Bomba, use it as a Dakkajet for the moment, but I will add some "decorative" bombs and missiles... Just in case the new rules really favour this kamikaze style of play :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I would take it... because I want to win games.

[inquisitorsog]

Well, remember the 9 shots becomes 18 when your on your WAAGH!

So, if you have anything that allows you to perform more than one in a game, you're adding significantly to your shooting. However, these do seem a bit too pricey. It's a paper tiger, which means your opponent knows (s)he should deal with it right away. (yeah, pointing out the obvious)

So, don't send it winging across the board on turn one when it will be the only thing to be shot at. Again, it's obvious. But GW just handed Ork players a jet. It's zooming across da board on turn one, shut up wit yer tinkin'!

[GrogDaTyrant]

So, if you have anything that allows you to perform more than one in a game, you're adding significantly to your shooting.

The only thing that lets you do that, is probably probably the worst HQ choices in the Ork codex. So to add the 1-in-6 (or rerolled) chance of pulling off a second Waaagh all for your plane(s), you're limiting yourself by burning an HQ slot that could easily go towards a KFF, AP 2 Ordnance, a Str 10 PK on a bike, or the only HQ choice capable of standing toe-to-toe to most other HQs (Ghaz). Personally, I wouldn't bother trying to go for a potential extra Waaagh. And that's saying nothing about how Wyrdboyz/Warpheads have no survivability, no real combat ability, and can't even provide a Ld boost to the unit they're attached to.


As far as the dakkajet goes, I'll pass on them in any army I field. Str 6 AP4 shooting isn't anything special in the Ork codex, and busting low AP vehicles is only a problem if you're spamming AoBR boxes. I can think of a lot of things outside of Fast Attack that those 135 points should probably be going into.

[inquisitorsog]

The only thing that lets you do that, is probably probably the worst HQ choices in the Ork codex.

If you're going only with standard missions that's right. But, once you get past the standard missions, you occasionally get ways to get extra WAAGHs which may make it worth it in those special scenarios. If you can figure out how to reliably triggering those extra Waaghs, then it may be worth it for that particular scenario. Especially so if you know the other side is required to take fast skimmers/flyers too.

Other than that., I can't really see how this model's useful at all unless you know you get to trigger it's special +1 BS ability. If you're building an all-comers list, definitely keep this at home. In the end, I think this is just an option that probably is only useful for special cases. The kit is called the "Bommer" which makes me think that they did the "Fighta" as an afterthought.

[Rissan4ever]

I'm pretty sure 6th Ed. will feature flyers rules that will make them a bit more durable and worth the points, and also to differentiate them from skimmers.