Time for a GW boycott?

[gendoikari87]

Yup, it's painfully obvious that GW is going to keep raising prices above inflation until they price everyone they can out, intentionally or not. That said if you are tired of the GW price increases, don't just "keep the budget the same", join me in my already year long boycott and lets teach Mr. Wells this is not the correct business model, and that we are not happy.

[eldargal]

I boycott companies that kill people, destroy the environment or otherwise do harm. I don't boycott a company that makes expensive toy soldiers.

[gendoikari87]

I boycott companies that kill people, destroy the environment or otherwise do harm. I don't boycott a company that makes expensive toy soldiers.

then enjoy your high prices. They are going to keep going up and up.

[wittdooley]

I thought you didn't even play the game right now?

And sure... I'll boycott....after I buy 2 or three of the new fliers. And after the 6E books drop. And after.....

You're really speaking to the wrong audience here. The bigger concern should be new buy in. I don't quite understand vets that have armies getting so angry. I mean, if you're a vet, you SHOULD own most of what you need for your army.

So, for me, I look at the price increase list and think, "Oh well, I have pretty much all that I need already..."

[eldargal]

Ineffectually calling for a boycott won't change that. Also if prices go up behind what I feel is a reasonable amount for what you get in terms of quality and quantity I will stop buying. I still won't call it a boycott though, because it wouldn't be.

then enjoy your high prices. They are going to keep going up and up.

[Deadlift]

Where's Big Red when you need him ?

[gendoikari87]

Ineffectually calling for a boycott won't change that. Also if prices go up behind what I feel is a reasonable amount for what you get in terms of quality and quantity I will stop buying. I still won't call it a boycott though, because it wouldn't be.

What is your breaking point then eldergal? Just curious because they will reach it, maybe they didn't this year, but next year, they'll do this again.

Why you ask?

Because you people keep spending your same budgets and simply buying less, that makes them more money and is thus more profitable. So where is your breaking point, because they are going to reach it. Mostly because of people like you and witt.

[DrLove42]

We get this every year, when people throw all their toys out of their prams at a few more pounds per models

Just get over it. GW may be expensive, but they deliver a high quality, desireable luxury product. And people are earning more year on year, and materials are getting more expensive, transit of goods is getting more expensive.

Tell you what. GW could close all their stores, minimise their staff, slow the rate of release and cut the costs. You cna pointat all the other companies and say they're not putting prices up, but they don't have to support the infrastructure that GW does.

So do your boycott and piss off. The rest of us will be better off without you whinging

[Psychosplodge]

Just become more selective with your purchasing, I used to start new armies on a whim, or expand existing ones cause "another unit of x would be cool in the display case" It then reached a price point where I limited purchases to books and limited edition stuff, though if a new model is cool enough I might buy it...

But considering still working through several years of backlog there's no rush...

And I certainly don't want to lose the universe, do you?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

We get this every year, when people throw all their toys out of their prams at a few more pounds per models

Just get over it. GW may be expensive, but they deliver a high quality, desireable luxury product. And people are earning more year on year, and materials are getting more expensive, transit of goods is getting more expensive.

Tell you what. GW could close all their stores, minimise their staff, slow the rate of release and cut the costs. You cna pointat all the other companies and say they're not putting prices up, but they don't have to support the infrastructure that GW does.

So do your boycott and piss off. The rest of us will be better off without you whinging

*claps* Well said.

GW are increasing costs to match THEIR increasing costs. Unfortunately, the world doesn't run on love and cuddles, if it did then I'd be a millionaire. Stuff costs money bro.

[wittdooley]

then enjoy your high prices. They are going to keep going up and up.

So... what you're saying is that they're following trends with pretty much every other industry?

How Much things cost in 2000 --> 2012

Average Cost of new house $134,150.00 -->$291,200 = 117% increase
Cost of a gallon of Gas $1.26 --> $3.79 = 200% increase
US Postage Stamp 33 cents --> 42 cents = 27% increase
1 LB of Bacon $2.97 --> $4.55 = 53% increase
Ground Coffee per IB $3.44 --> $6.99 = 103% increase
Gallon of Milk $1.88 --> $2.89 = 54% increase

So...it's not a GW exclusive thing.

[gendoikari87]

*claps* Well said.

GW are increasing costs to match THEIR increasing costs. Unfortunately, the world doesn't run on love and cuddles, if it did then I'd be a millionaire. Stuff costs money bro.

Proof bro, proof.

[SotonShades]

Even if every BoLS member boycotted GW it'd barely register as a dip in their profits. Personnally, I'd suggest writing a letter to GW management explaining my views and argument in a clear and non-volatile manner, asking why they fealt a price rise was required.

On the otherhand, I have looked over their financial statements of the last few years (started doing it for a written project for a Business and Managemkent module for my degree) and they have consistently shown that they reinvest their profits into giving us bigger, better, more detailed models, kits with greater componant counts, increased manufacturing, storage and distribution capabilities, among other things. Now, I'm not saying that a noticable portion of those profits don't go into shareholders' pockets, but guess what; GW are a business. That is their primary aim. Now, I'm not saying I personnally want to see the prices go up, just that I can fully understand why companies can, will and do.

As Eldargirl pointed out, boycotts are for businesses that violate human rights or unethically treat the environment. GW produces luxury products. We pay a luxury price tag for that. If it becomes too big a price tag for you, then it is a luxury you have to do with out. That said I bet most of us have a decent collection of miniatures and can comtinue to play games without buying new bits? I'm currently unemployed and living of Job Seeker's Allowance (approximately £50 a week) and yet I am still able to get my hobby fix. If you have more and really can't afford everything you want from GW (whether directly or via other stores) maybe you need to look at saving up for things rather than buying as soon as something comes out, or being less greedy. Maybe focus on improving the army you have (better paint job etc) and slowly building it up rather than selling it and buying a new army.

Note, none of this is directed specifically at the OP, just the complaints of price hikes i read about every year.

[gendoikari87]

Average Cost of new house $134,150.00 -->$291,200 = 117% increase

this one you pulled out your ***, housing is still down 20% and that's a conservative esitmate.

[gendoikari87]

Okay I get why GW does this now, you're all completely insane and will pay whatever their asking price. I suggest going to addiction counseling.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm a plumber, copper and PLASTIC (the material GW use!) is going up because it's getting more expensive to get hold of.

[SotonShades]

Proof bro, proof.

GW have their financial reports freely availible in the investors section (http://investor.games-workshop.com/) of their website.

Plenty of proof. Just a bit more work for you than saying "Waaaah. GW are putting up prices just to make more money so I shall now cry waaaah"

[Psychosplodge]

Even if every BoLS member boycotted GW it'd barely register as a dip in their profits. Personnally, I'd suggest writing a letter to GW management explaining my views and argument in a clear and non-volatile manner, asking why they fealt a price rise was required.


Note, none of this is directed specifically at the OP, just the complaints of price hikes i read about every year.

They became a PLC, I'm sure when I started in the 90's the prices seemed static for longer, but as a PLC they have to show an increase in profit to keep the shareholders happy..

[gendoikari87]

I'm a plumber, copper and PLASTIC (the material GW use!) is going up because it's getting more expensive to get hold of.

I know my dad's a plumber and it hasn't gone up that much (at least plastic, copper keeps going through the roof), and GW was already selling at an exorbitant cost. Again to the GW defenders out there, addiction counseling.

[eldargal]

We aren't insane, we just have a sense of perspective that stops us getting too hysterical about a toy soldier company raising its prices. I don't think it was the best thing they could have done, but it isn't the end of the world. Especially since UK retailers haven't got the email yet so it is possible it won't happen here (there was a US specific price rise a year or two ago).


Okay I get why GW does this now, you're all completely insane and will pay whatever their asking price. I suggest going to addiction counseling.

[wittdooley]

Because you people keep spending your same budgets and simply buying less, that makes them more money and is thus more profitable. So where is your breaking point, because they are going to reach it. Mostly because of people like you and witt.

You're sort of missing the point that a lot of us have tried to explain to you numerous times:

Nearly everyone on this forum, based on knowing folks like Deadlift and EG and DrLove for more than a year, have a particular budget they stick to on a monthly basis for their gaming. If prices go up, we simply get less. Our budget isn't dictated by GW. Our budget is dictated by our income.

And again, the people that seem to complain the most are veterans that shouldn't NEED to add that much to any army. For instance, I simply couldn't tell you when the last time I purchased a Rhino, or a Tactical Squad, or hell, even an Assault squad was.

[gendoikari87]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

[gendoikari87]

You're sort of missing the point that a lot of us have tried to explain to you numerous times:

Nearly everyone on this forum, based on knowing folks like Deadlift and EG and DrLove for more than a year, have a particular budget they stick to on a monthly basis for their gaming. If prices go up, we simply get less. Our budget isn't dictated by GW. Our budget is dictated by our income.

And again, the people that seem to complain the most are veterans that shouldn't NEED to add that much to any army. For instance, I simply couldn't tell you when the last time I purchased a Rhino, or a Tactical Squad, or hell, even an Assault squad was.

so you don't care one bit about new member being turned away at these prices, and old vets like me quitting. I hope you have a well established gaming group.

P.S. on a good note Apocalypse and baneblades are now relatively affordable.

[wittdooley]

this one you pulled out your ***, housing is still down 20% and that's a conservative esitmate.

I call your bluff, sir, with a report directly from the US Census Bureau:

http://www.census.gov/construction/nrs/pdf/newressales.pdf

[wittdooley]

I thought you didn't even play the game right now?

And sure... I'll boycott....after I buy 2 or three of the new fliers. And after the 6E books drop. And after.....

You're really speaking to the wrong audience here. The bigger concern should be new buy in. I don't quite understand vets that have armies getting so angry. I mean, if you're a vet, you SHOULD own most of what you need for your army.

So, for me, I look at the price increase list and think, "Oh well, I have pretty much all that I need already..."

Read the part in Bold, please, Gendo. It was a part of my first response post. I'm all about having discourse with you, but you need to read the other posts if we're going to even attempt to do this intelligently.

[gendoikari87]

Read the part in Bold, please, Gendo. It was a part of my first response post. I'm all about having discourse with you, but you need to read the other posts if we're going to even attempt to do this intelligently.

Oh I read it but you still seem to not care. Which if you have a good gaming group and you all have your armies I can see.


EDIT: WTF is with the difference between the bols and dakka polls. this one has almost no one boycotting while bols is almost half and half with the same number of votes. Small sample sizes?

[eldargal]

Also, I'm not defending the price rise, I think it is stupid. A 5% accross the range would have been better than 5-75% across selected things. I'm just saying it isn't the end of the world and it isn't worth a boycott as no one is being hurt except possible GW themselves. Maybe.

[Deadlift]

Over 76% of people in your poll said no to your boycott or 1 out of 19 I think, either Gen there's your answer. You asked the question, you got your answer.

Folks, I have a vision of this boy sat at home having a great time try to wind us all up. **** that ****, I am not giving him the satisfaction.

[Defenestratus]

I'm not going to participate in a "boycott". Boycotts are stupid and most of them are ridiculously ineffective.

What I WILL do is make a decision as a free market consumer and choose to purchase less GW product. GW prices were always within the "impulse purchase" price range. I'd walk into a game shop, play a game and be like "I really could have used another land raider" or "Damn I feel like painting a new wraithlord" - then walk out of the shop with one.

Those types of purchases aren't going to happen anymore at these prices for me as a consumer. I'm not a tightwad by any means but I'm also not going to throw good pocket change out the window.

My purchases are now going to be based on what kind of army I want to build. Everything will be planned from now on.

GW seems to think that their luxury items are inelastic in their demand versus their cost. Its simply not the case and I think GW is going to really be surprised just how much in sales they're going to lose because of this.

THAT will be the boycott - the unintentional one. The one that happens when thousands of consumers independently make informed decisions on the value of their potential purchases.

[gendoikari87]

Also, I'm not defending the price rise, I think it is stupid. A 5% accross the range would have been better than 5-75% across selected things. I'm just saying it isn't the end of the world and it isn't worth a boycott as no one is being hurt except possible GW themselves. Maybe.

of course THIS one isn't the end of the hobby, my point is taht GW is going to keep doing this until they get to a point where new players are few and far between and when that happens, GW will be looking at it's last days. Well GW won't, the table top game will.

[gendoikari87]

I'm not going to participate in a "boycott". Boycotts are stupid and most of them are ridiculously ineffective.

What I WILL do is make a decision as a free market consumer and choose to purchase less GW product. GW prices were always within the "impulse purchase" price range. I'd walk into a game shop, play a game and be like "I really could have used another land raider" or "Damn I feel like painting a new wraithlord" - then walk out of the shop with one.

Those types of purchases aren't going to happen anymore at these prices for me as a consumer. I'm not a tightwad by any means but I'm also not going to throw good pocket change out the window.

My purchases are now going to be based on what kind of army I want to build. Everything will be planned from now on.

GW seems to think that their luxury items are inelastic in their demand versus their cost. Its simply not the case and I think GW is going to really be surprised just how much in sales they're going to lose because of this.

THAT will be the boycott - the unintentional one. The one that happens when thousands of consumers independently make informed decisions on the value of their potential purchases.


I'd like to think your right here, but unfortunately from what i've been seeing from the people on this board (assuming they are a representation, which is a bad assumption) they're going to keep spending their "budget" and simply buying fewer items. which is a net gain for GW because they're making the same amount of money on less actual production.

The telling part is what will this do to new customers, and by how much they get priced out.

[Kawauso]

of course THIS one isn't the end of the hobby, my point is taht GW is going to keep doing this until they get to a point where new players are few and far between and when that happens, GW will be looking at it's last days. Well GW won't, the table top game will.

Even if the new price increases wind up hurting GW, the company won't evaporate overnight.

They'll notice if there's any sort of measurable backlash to a decision like this, and try something (or multiple somethings) to compensate, like maybe lowering prices at the cost of spacing out releases a bit more.

[Defenestratus]

of course THIS one isn't the end of the hobby, my point is taht GW is going to keep doing this until they get to a point where new players are few and far between and when that happens, GW will be looking at it's last days. Well GW won't, the table top game will.

Businesses that price their customer base out of the market tend to either make adjustments to their business model or go out of business.

Obviously GW thinks that they can increase revenue with these price increases.

My gut disagrees but I'm looking at the equation from the consumer side with no research data to back up my feeling.

[wittdooley]

Oh I read it but you still seem to not care.


EDIT: WTF is with the difference between the bols and dakka polls. this one has almost no one boycotting while bols is almost half and half with the same number of votes. Small sample sizes?

So what... You just ignored the statement then?

The difference between the Dakka and BoLS polls is the demographic. Dakka has a much, much higher number of younger players on it than BoLS does. This means there are lot more irrational folks prone to complaining, whereas here we have a much higher amount of pragmatism going on.

[khsrio621]

I'm not going to boycott them. I'm just not going to buy from them anymore. I start living on my own after this summer, so quite frankly I can't afford too much GW anymore. It would be more worth my time to use what I already have, and if I really feel like I have money to spend, I'll probably spend it on Warmahordes or Dust.
I Don't think an organized boycott is worth the effort here. if GW actually starts losing profit because of the price change, they will have to figure something out. Otherwise, good luck to the new players who don't know how good the would have had it if they started earlier.

[Wolfshade]

I would wager that GW know what their market is, and know how much tolerance it has for pricing. I think that is evidenced in their financial statements for the last couple of periods. The fact that not only are the profitable, but they are increasing revenue in times during a recession is a testament to the fact that they are doing something right.

[DrLove42]

The poll on here also revelas a lot about the community. 5 votes for a boycott, but only one person commenting to that effect

Ergo Lurkers - Nothing good to say - Overreacting Whingers.

[Renegade]

If I cant afford the plastic, so be it. I am not sure if anyone has noticed, but our neighbours on the continent look like going bust causing economic shock waves. Those from the US should read the news in other parts of the world more, as GW is a British company with British concerns.

Like it or not, that is the heart of the matter. If GW was a US company, then they may not be putting up prices, but it is not.

I will buy what I like, and if I can afford less then so be it. As I prefer Black Library to the plasticrack, and those prices have not been going up, I'm ok.

[gendoikari87]

The poll on here also revelas a lot about the community. 5 votes for a boycott, but only one person commenting to that effect

Ergo Lurkers - Nothing good to say - Overreacting Whingers.

I take it more i'm the only one insane enough to argue with those who are clearly insane themselves.

All I can say is thank god for vassal because the only thing worth GW's prices any more are their books.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Just as planned.......

[Defenestratus]

Those from the US should read the news in other parts of the world more, as GW is a British company with British concerns.

Thankfully the UK is separated from the "mutually assured destruction" of the EU - but since its a regional partner with the economic super bloc its going to suffer horribly. Plus the UK is technically in a recession now.

A lot of us do pay attention to the news - and those that are paying attention are very scared for the future of the EU - and the US for that matter. Taxageddeon is an economic cliff that we're headed towards full-speed with the brake lines cut.

[DrLove42]

I really don't like the Euro stuff recently...I don't see a way out of the situation cleanly.

Greece leaves - We're screwed
Greece stays - We're less screwed, but the world still suffers...

Englands insulated a bit cos we don't have the Euro, and could even benefit a bit against a weak Euro, but we're too tied to each other over here.

Not to mention Spain and Italy are both in dire straights....

[Wolfshade]

I take it more i'm the only one insane enough to argue with those who are clearly insane themselves.
I am not sure that just because you disagree with some people that that qualifies you as being insane, and vice versa.

[Psychosplodge]

I really don't like the Euro stuff recently...I don't see a way out of the situation cleanly.

Greece leaves - We're screwed
Greece stays - We're less screwed, but the world still suffers...

Englands insulated a bit cos we don't have the Euro, and could even benefit a bit against a weak Euro, but we're too tied to each other over here.

Not to mention Spain and Italy are both in dire straights....
Also Portugal and the Irish republic aren't really much more viable...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Why don't we all just calm down?

[ksoh75]

[QUOTE=gendoikari87;200239]Oh I read it but you still seem to not care. Which if you have a good gaming group and you all have your armies I can see.QUOTE]

We have a great group......we average about 30-50 people for our big tournies once a year in Cincinnati and the Tri State area with many monthley tournies through out the area that will have between 20-30 per tourny.

Thus various leagues as well as support from our GW store as well as LGS's.....

Cincinnati is Hom to CAG and Queen City Guard.....google us.....

[gendoikari87]

Thankfully the UK is separated from the "mutually assured destruction" of the EU - but since its a regional partner with the economic super bloc its going to suffer horribly. Plus the UK is technically in a recession now.

A lot of us do pay attention to the news - and those that are paying attention are very scared for the future of the EU - and the US for that matter. Taxageddeon is an economic cliff that we're headed towards full-speed with the brake lines cut.

taxageddon? Oh noes, the gubmints asking us poor corporations to pay the same rate as normal People? [/sarcasm]

Silver lining: Hey lookit, forgeworld is now affordable...

[Defenestratus]

taxageddon? Oh noes, the gubmints asking us poor corporations to pay the same rate as normal People? [/sarcasm]

Go educate yourself on the taxageddeon issues. Its not just corporations that are going to be hit. If you don't take my word for it, take it from the CBO since you seem willing to trust statist institutions more than private enterprise.



Silver lining: Hey lookit, forgeworld is now affordable...


Anyone who has been paying attention has realized that certain FW kit has been priced competitively for quite some time. Its limited distribution channel and game cultural stigma of being "unofficial" are the only reasons you don't see more of them in my opinion.

[gendoikari87]

Go educate yourself on the taxageddeon issues. Its not just corporations that are going to be hit. If you don't take my word for it, take it from the CBO since you seem willing to trust statist institutions more than private enterprise.

... yeah, because private enterprise is completely trustworthy. You're obviously an ignorant and or psychopathic right winger(redundant I know), you're going on the ignore list.

[The AKH]

Speaking from a Canadian perspective, the prices I currently pay for pretty much everything on the price adjustment list - save maybe the books - are already on average $2-3 higher than the increased US prices. I started off with the hobby seven years ago when the price disparity was warranted by a weaker Canadian dollar - now, when the dollar has been pretty much par for at least three or four years, GW still seems to be keeping us on a sliding scale of "paying more than the US". Land Raiders have been more than $75 since the last price rise. I think the last blister pack I bought for under $16 was a pack of Harlequins, four years ago. Recently I bought an Emperor's Champion in Finecast - $19.

When I started the hobby, you could still get a troops box for $30 (or $40, but the $40 ones usually had 12-16 models in them) and codices were $30 tops. The latest Space Marine book was $40 on release day here... three years ago.

It isn't as much a question of "willingness to pay $X" as it is "willingness to spend $X". I wouldn't mind paying $75 or $79 for a Land Raider if I wanted a Land Raider. It would take me marginally longer to set aside the... four extra dollars, which simply means a longer interval between purchases. If we talk monthly schedule, fewer models bought per month. Sure, this means that it'll take longer for a newbie to build up an army... to the arbitrary 1850/2000/2500 tournament standard, maybe. The game plays just as well at 1000/1250/1500 points. Maybe there'll be a newfound interest in smaller points games among new players unable to match the collections of gamers with ten years and 35000 points of models in their bag.

And as far as boycotting GW - my entire gaming group (five or six of us, so about the number voting for a boycott as of my writing) has been on an involuntary "boycott" for the last two years because we've all started university. As far as I can tell, GW has not been adversely affected. I suppose the question to ask yourself before you suggest a boycott is, if GW, say, DROPPED prices by, oh, $3 next year... would you really be buying that many more models?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

WELP. Rage going on in here.
All I'm hearing is "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"

[MarneusCalgar]

We get this every year, when people throw all their toys out of their prams at a few more pounds per models

Just get over it. GW may be expensive, but they deliver a high quality, desireable luxury product. And people are earning more year on year, and materials are getting more expensive, transit of goods is getting more expensive.

Tell you what. GW could close all their stores, minimise their staff, slow the rate of release and cut the costs. You cna pointat all the other companies and say they're not putting prices up, but they don't have to support the infrastructure that GW does.

So do your boycott and piss off. The rest of us will be better off without you whinging


You also spoke for me...

I hate all this whines and crying threads...

Toy soldiers never was a cheap hobby.

[eldargal]

Rage Goddess, sing the rage of Plumbers son Gendoikari87
murderous, doomed, that cost Games Workshop countless losses

WELP. Rage going on in here.
All I'm hearing is "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"

[Renegade]

Go educate yourself on the taxageddeon issues. Its not just corporations that are going to be hit. If you don't take my word for it, take it from the CBO since you seem willing to trust statist institutions more than private enterprise.

Anyone who has been paying attention has realized that certain FW kit has been priced competitively for quite some time. Its limited distribution channel and game cultural stigma of being "unofficial" are the only reasons you don't see more of them in my opinion.

I don't know how things are in the US, but GW has to contend with Brussels red tape which is very costly. Hopefully the reds taking control on the continent will drive the wealthy to the UK, which means more money in the pot... and hopefully they will be Warhammer players, meaning GW can make more money without pushing prices to high.
However, with fuel at about £1.40 per litre for unleaded, it is no wonder that prices will rise where shipping is involved.

I never got that FW thing, they have always been ok to use in my local gaming community as long as nothing over the top is used.

[wittdooley]

If I cant afford the plastic, so be it. I am not sure if anyone has noticed, but our neighbours on the continent look like going bust causing economic shock waves. Those from the US should read the news in other parts of the world more, as GW is a British company with British concerns.

Like it or not, that is the heart of the matter. If GW was a US company, then they may not be putting up prices, but it is not.

I will buy what I like, and if I can afford less then so be it. As I prefer Black Library to the plasticrack, and those prices have not been going up, I'm ok.

This viewpoint is a bit myopic; I don't have any statistics to back it up, but I'd wager the US Market is probably pretty important to GW's profitability. It's akin to saying Sony is Japanese company so they only have Japanese concerns.

As for Black Library-- looks like the next HH book, Fear to Tread, is going to be $9.99 US instead of $8.99 US. That's an 11% increase. Bring out the pitchforks!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Rage Goddess, sing the rage of Plumbers son Gendoikari87
murderous, doomed, that cost Games Workshop countless losses

Pretty much what I'm thinking. ;)
Time to sacrifice the goats!!! Where's my shiny firestick?

[alshrive]

i am in consensus with several previous posters. Every year people complain, every year we all get mildly irked, every year we get over it. it's kind of the like the New Years Hangover , we all know about 11 months in advance that it is inevitable, it happens, we go along with it and we get over it. i would end up more miserable boycotting my plastic soliders than if i paid a little bit more!

[Defenestratus]

... yeah, because private enterprise is completely trustworthy. You're obviously an ignorant and or psychopathic right winger(redundant I know), you're going on the ignore list.

Psychopathic - Yet I am not the one reverting to name calling.

I feel that I have reached a place of honor. Instead of trying to legitimately debate issues surrounding economics - I've been put on ignore. To each his own I suppose. If you choose to live in an echo chamber without having your opinions challenged then - ignorance is bliss I suppose.

I've said nothing about the trustworthiness of private enterprise. Corporations are just like individuals - each one is unique and conforms to its own moral compass. You seem to paint each one with a the same broad stroke of moral condemnation.

That being said - our discussion has gone severely off course from the original topic of this thread.

[alshrive]

am i the only who finds it ridiculous that some resort to insulting people just because they feel slightly worse off? I mean if the supermarket puts the price of one of my favourite foods up i don't turn around and insult my friends or family. i may curse the supermarket a little bit but i don't take it out on like minded people! i truly pity some people's mentalities and that is all i will say on the matter.

ALShrive

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been locked or deleted yet.

[ksoh75]

Psychopathic - Yet I am not the one reverting to name calling.

I feel that I have reached a place of honor. Instead of trying to legitimately debate issues surrounding economics - I've been put on ignore. To each his own I suppose. If you choose to live in an echo chamber without having your opinions challenged then - ignorance is bliss I suppose.

I've said nothing about the trustworthiness of private enterprise. Corporations are just like individuals - each one is unique and conforms to its own moral compass. You seem to paint each one with a the same broad stroke of moral condemnation.

That being said - our discussion has gone severely off course from the original topic of this thread.



I would be more than happy to copy and paste your posts so he's sees them...LOL

[Renegade]

This viewpoint is a bit myopic; I don't have any statistics to back it up, but I'd wager the US Market is probably pretty important to GW's profitability. It's akin to saying Sony is Japanese company so they only have Japanese concerns.

As for Black Library-- looks like the next HH book, Fear to Tread, is going to be $9.99 US instead of $8.99 US. That's an 11% increase. Bring out the pitchforks!

Yet Sony does not have its core in Japan, GW has its core in the UK. If you were to look at this on a spread of purchases by percentage of population, the UK would be the golden egg laying goose. Though this kind of moves from what I was saying before. Not to mention that Sony uses cheap labour in countries where workers have few rights an crap pay.

GW has to account for cost where it's main operations are, and shipping costs to elsewhere. This is what those that are raging are ignoring, and it matters not what the costs are locally to them if they are not in the UK.

Instead of raging at GW, you should write to your government to make it cheaper for GW to import their goods to the US or where ever you're from, as I have no doubt that some of the costs are down to duty on imports.

[Akaiyou]

Unfortunately the fan base for GW is too 'fanboyish' to be boycotted.

I read on one of the blogs on BoLS that 40k is like a comic book style game of toy soldiers. So yeah with that in mind, we all know how fan boys are about their fav comic books, they'll take a bullet for it, walk on fire, split the seas, summon the apocalypse to make sure they keep supporting it.

It takes something gravely wrong to be done onto their holy totems before they run up in an uproar.

So yeah boycotting would be awesome to force more reasonable prices but let's face it, without the community as a whole uniting on it, it'll be pointless.

As I said in that China Bootlegger thread, money is our voice and a dictator is not gonna care about the voices of a few thousand in a population of millions. Those of us that can look past the 'awesome-sauce' factor of 40k are few so as others have said, becoming more 'selective' seems to be the best way to both let em know 'we aint gonna keep just buying whatever you throw at us' while still being able to enjoy the hobby.

The Hobby itself is not the problem. Someone here said something ridiculous along the lines of 'GW price increase goes hand in hand with their cost increase' normally that would make perfect sense...what makes it ridiculous is that GW is NOT charging us a fair price to begin with.

Here's an example

We all love music right? Do you all know that CDs costs pennies and that those albums you buy cost next to nothing to produce. Yet they still cost like $15 dollars

That money is redistributed back to all the staff, markerters, artist etc etc etc, basically a lot of ppl get paid (in pennies usually) for each album sold. But the cd with the music itself (if any of you have EVER created your own custom music CD) costs very little, that's why some artists do double or triple albums that still retail for the same price as if it had just 1 CD.

The music industry as a whole makes a killing on selling albums but the money doesn't just go to one entity/company it's like a Tree with dozens and dozens of branches.

GW on the other hand is just one entity that creates a whole sale product (technically they ARE wholesalers) but they end up selling their wholesale price at a ridiculously inflated retail price that does NOT reflect the cost of production & distribution as with most other companies.

They take an active role in their product which is all great and nice but they are still the ONLY wholesaler for their product because they own the IP for it. So it IS a monopoly in the sense that the only way to get legit GW products is from GW itself regardless of wether you are a consumer or a retailer. This is what lets them control the prices as they do

Any other normal wholesaler would be selling that stuff to retailers for a lot less and making their profit from expanding the market for their product, allowing the retailers to fight for consumers and bring reasonable prices to the hobby.

But on the other hand it is intentionally not done this way to maintain this 'elitist' mentality to the hobby and make the same amount of earnings with less effort because they are the only wholesaler and they can do that.

Can't really fault them for taking advantage of that, but it IS ****** up, for us. We bear the burden, so saying 'omg they raise prices cuz costs went up for them' is BS because their prices are NOT reasonable from the start, their win margin is ridiculous because they dont redistribute in the same way another company has to for their product. So raising their prices to match current costs is how they maintain their ridiculous win margin

It is akin to knocking down someone in a wheelchair to be able to win the race. Totally unnecessary

For the record their costs HAVE gone down since switching to finecast and plastics only. Do the research. They are currently way more efficient in their cost production to earnings ratio than ever before so really why raise prices? If you support prices being raised when 'costs to produce' go up, then why not support them going down when costs to produce goes down?

[Wolfshade]

This viewpoint is a bit myopic; I don't have any statistics to back it up, but I'd wager the US Market is probably pretty important to GW's profitability. It's akin to saying Sony is Japanese company so they only have Japanese concerns.

As for Black Library-- looks like the next HH book, Fear to Tread, is going to be $9.99 US instead of $8.99 US. That's an 11% increase. Bring out the pitchforks!

In terms of profitably the EU is GW's biggest market
from the latest half year statement, figures in millions of £
UK 15.0
Continental Europe 17.0
North America 15.7
Australia 4.9
Emerging Markets and Capital Cities 3.5
Asia 0.8
All other sales businesses 5.1

[wittdooley]

In terms of profitably the EU is GW's biggest market
from the latest half year statement, figures in millions of £
UK 15.0
Continental Europe 17.0
North America 15.7
Australia 4.9
Emerging Markets and Capital Cities 3.5
Asia 0.8
All other sales businesses 5.1

So ~ 1/3 of their total sales? Looks like the US market being important was an accurate statement. :D

[Necron2.0]

Boycot!! Boycot I say!!

'Course, as a former devotee of Mikhail Bakunin, I've always had a soft spot for revolution, not as a means to and ends, but as an ends in and of itself.

Necron2.0, the Coy Bot.

[Kawauso]

So ~ 1/3 of their total sales? Looks like the US market being important was an accurate statement. :D

Try 1/4. And North America isn't just you guys - we live here too. :P
Not to say you're wrong about it being unimportant as a market.

[wittdooley]

Try 1/4. And North America isn't just you guys - we live here too. :P
Not to say you're wrong about it being unimportant as a market.

Yeah, I realized it said North America and not simply the US. Whoops ;) My apolgies to the country up north!

TBH, I'm actually surprised the numbers for NAm are that low. Where are those from?

[gendoikari87]

GW has to account for cost where it's main operations are, and shipping costs to elsewhere. This is what those that are raging are ignoring, and it matters not what the costs are locally to them if they are not in the UK.

Instead of raging at GW, you should write to your government to make it cheaper for GW to import their goods to the US or where ever you're from, as I have no doubt that some of the costs are down to duty on imports.

Duty and import taxes has nothing to do with it, GW has a NA manufacturing facility. Might be true for canada, I don't know if it's more than just the tennesee facility.

[gendoikari87]

Unfortunately the fan base for GW is too 'fanboyish' to be boycotted.

I read on one of the blogs on BoLS that 40k is like a comic book style game of toy soldiers. So yeah with that in mind, we all know how fan boys are about their fav comic books, they'll take a bullet for it, walk on fire, split the seas, summon the apocalypse to make sure they keep supporting it.

It takes something gravely wrong to be done onto their holy totems before they run up in an uproar.

So yeah boycotting would be awesome to force more reasonable prices but let's face it, without the community as a whole uniting on it, it'll be pointless.

As I said in that China Bootlegger thread, money is our voice and a dictator is not gonna care about the voices of a few thousand in a population of millions. Those of us that can look past the 'awesome-sauce' factor of 40k are few so as others have said, becoming more 'selective' seems to be the best way to both let em know 'we aint gonna keep just buying whatever you throw at us' while still being able to enjoy the hobby.

The Hobby itself is not the problem. Someone here said something ridiculous along the lines of 'GW price increase goes hand in hand with their cost increase' normally that would make perfect sense...what makes it ridiculous is that GW is NOT charging us a fair price to begin with.

Here's an example

We all love music right? Do you all know that CDs costs pennies and that those albums you buy cost next to nothing to produce. Yet they still cost like $15 dollars

That money is redistributed back to all the staff, markerters, artist etc etc etc, basically a lot of ppl get paid (in pennies usually) for each album sold. But the cd with the music itself (if any of you have EVER created your own custom music CD) costs very little, that's why some artists do double or triple albums that still retail for the same price as if it had just 1 CD.

The music industry as a whole makes a killing on selling albums but the money doesn't just go to one entity/company it's like a Tree with dozens and dozens of branches.

GW on the other hand is just one entity that creates a whole sale product (technically they ARE wholesalers) but they end up selling their wholesale price at a ridiculously inflated retail price that does NOT reflect the cost of production & distribution as with most other companies.

They take an active role in their product which is all great and nice but they are still the ONLY wholesaler for their product because they own the IP for it. So it IS a monopoly in the sense that the only way to get legit GW products is from GW itself regardless of wether you are a consumer or a retailer. This is what lets them control the prices as they do

Any other normal wholesaler would be selling that stuff to retailers for a lot less and making their profit from expanding the market for their product, allowing the retailers to fight for consumers and bring reasonable prices to the hobby.

But on the other hand it is intentionally not done this way to maintain this 'elitist' mentality to the hobby and make the same amount of earnings with less effort because they are the only wholesaler and they can do that.

Can't really fault them for taking advantage of that, but it IS ****** up, for us. We bear the burden, so saying 'omg they raise prices cuz costs went up for them' is BS because their prices are NOT reasonable from the start, their win margin is ridiculous because they dont redistribute in the same way another company has to for their product. So raising their prices to match current costs is how they maintain their ridiculous win margin

It is akin to knocking down someone in a wheelchair to be able to win the race. Totally unnecessary

For the record their costs HAVE gone down since switching to finecast and plastics only. Do the research. They are currently way more efficient in their cost production to earnings ratio than ever before so really why raise prices? If you support prices being raised when 'costs to produce' go up, then why not support them going down when costs to produce goes down?
Very sad but true.

[The Madman]

I've yet to see a boycott on anything to do with games actually have an effect on the companies. after all the offline consumers far outnumber those who come on to sites like these where such boycotts are suggested.

[Deadlift]

I suggest those that wish to boycott do so. When the rest of us a happily building, painting, playing, talking about 6th, chaos codex, new starter set and shinty new storm bricks, you and the rest of you Billy no mates can look on in envy. F*ck me these forums are getting mightily whingy these days.

[Kawauso]

Yeah, why isn't there some sort of middle-ground option for this poll?

Like, "if you want" or "buy less"?

[olberon]

actually i dont mind the increase , means more value for my stocks :D
to bad i spend to much on warhammer...... well just have to buy one less flyer then :D

[Aldramelech]

I suggest those that wish to boycott do so. When the rest of us a happily building, painting, playing, talking about 6th, chaos codex, new starter set and shinty new storm bricks, you and the rest of you Billy no mates can look on in envy. F*ck me these forums are getting mightily whingy these days.


I really don't see that playing GW or buying GW is a prerequisite for having mates, I belong to a large and diverse gaming group and am still relatively active on this forum without doing either.

Buy the stuff, don't buy the stuff, make your own choice and be happy.

I stopped buying GW when the new edition off WFB came out, IMO there were better figures out there that cost less and I moved into those systems instead.

To the OP I would say, If you feel it's time to move on to something else (and there's lots to choose from) then great, welcome to the wider world of gaming, but stay off the soapbox, it'll get you nowhere.

[Asimodeus]

Dennis is a troll. Dennis is a troll. Dennis is a troll.

[ksoh75]

I hit the boycot button.....But I also turned around and bout 3 Broadsides and 5 Pirahna's also today...

I'm bi-polar with a small case of terets you ****ers....:D;)

[Deadlift]

I hit the boycot button.....But I also turned around and bout 3 Broadsides and 5 Pirahna's also today...

I'm bi-polar with a small case of terets you ****ers....:D;)

:) funny

[gendoikari87]

I hit the boycot button.....But I also turned around and bout 3 Broadsides and 5 Pirahna's also today...

I'm bi-polar with a small case of terets you ****ers....:D;)

It's not your fault, they call it plastic crack for a reason.

[ksoh75]

It's not your fault, they call it plastic crack for a reason.

And that good sir...is the only thing I'm agreeing with you on...LOL

[Renegade]

Duty and import taxes has nothing to do with it, GW has a NA manufacturing facility. Might be true for canada, I don't know if it's more than just the tennesee facility.

The majority of the products are made in the UK, go check your boxes mate. The UK is the main manufacturing and distribution base, the US is not, so the costs for the US need to factor in import duty, shipping etc and factors effecting the UK over the US.

I for one don't mind an increase, as it is very likely that GW will have to factor in for an explosive euro-zone and loss of sales and possible damage to property etc. It is something that many businesses this side of the pond have been factoring in, and building reserves against.

Looking at things from a US perspective is a waste of time as it misses the major factors of GW's running costs, you have to look at the market in the UK to get a proper perspective.

[Chris Copeland]

Okay I get why GW does this now, you're all completely insane and will pay whatever their asking price. I suggest going to addiction counseling.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I suspect it goes more like this: we have some perspective and realize that this is a completely luxury product that no one has a right to. With that in mind we enter the hobby with eyes wide open. We know what our sheckles are worth to us and STILL choose to buy stuff from GW. We each have breaking points but (right now) many of us don't feel we've hit them.

We are confused by YOU: Genny, you seem to think of playing 40K as a right like education, housing, and health care. You can't seem to understand that many of us might agree with you about OTHER things being rights but NOT stuff like GW products. Here are some of my beliefs in black and white:


You have a right to be safe.
You have a right not to starve to death.
You have a right to a public education up through a high school diploma.
You SHOULD have a right to Universal Health Care (I think we Americans are insane when it comes to how we manage health services).
You have a right to Free Speech.
You have a right to an honest, living wage and a safe work environment.
You DON'T have the right to play polo. It costs a lot of money, you have to buy a horse, and probably have to join an elite club to play. You're going to have to make a LOT of money to engage in this hobby...
You DON'T have the right to be on the football team... that's why they have tryouts. If you are good enough you'll make it but many people won't...
You DON'T have the right to a 87" plasma TV... they cost a LOT and you're going to have to save up if you want one... see my point about "polo" above...
You DON'T have the right to play 40K at prices determined by you... you have to play at the prices set by GW... if it's too expensive then you'll have to find a hobby you can afford... see my note about "polo" above.
You DON'T have the right to a Porsche. Again, if you REALLY want a Porsche (I know I do) you'll have to earn a lot of money and save for it... I could do that (it would take a ridiculously long time) but I choose NOT to because I have higher priorities (such as my mortgage payment, preparing for my kids' college educations, a nice bottle of wine from time to time, and getting my central AC fixed because it's starting to get hot here in Texas).

So, there ya go. I look forward to your well reasoned response... Copeland

[Cherub]

Compared to gas for my car gw is cheap. Right now I live in vancouver bc canada. Guess what we have the highest gas in north america. I'll save my whining for high gas prices, my plastic models are still cheap in my eyes and totally worth it. You can do what you want but me ill keep buying my plastic models, assembling, painting and playing with them.

@copeland: well thought out response i totally agree with you :cool:

[Morgan Darkstar]

I'm surprised that this thread hasn't been locked or deleted yet.

Did you not get the memo? the mods are gone.......

at least thats the impression i get from some of the OT threads lately!

Duke where are you?

[Deadlift]

Where's Big Red when you need him ?

:) I had the very same thoughts this morning......and still here we are.

[Chris Copeland]

It's been a hot day here in Texas (seriously! the AC in my house is out!)... perhaps all of the Mods (who live just up the road from me in Austin, Tx are taking siestas!

[Chuck777]

GW reminds me of the Comic Book industry.

“The truth is people are leaving anyway, they’re just doing it quietly, and we have been papering it over with increased prices.”

- Dan Didio, co-publisher of DC Comics, Los Angeles Times, August 22nd, 2011.


That is EXACTLY what GW is doing.

There are a few easy solutions GW can use to solve its problems.

1. Farm out its IP more.

2. Lower prices and make up the difference in revenue by selling more product.

3. Come out and tell us WHY you are raising prices. We can speculate all we want but there seems to be no rhyme or reason for the percentages of the increases. Why is the Stormraven being hit harder than a Land Raider, which is being hit more than a Finecast Character.

4. Bundle products to save money. Why have 2 kits for the Rhino and Razorback when one will do? Why have 2 land Raiders when one will do the job? Do we really need a separate kit for a Librarian, a Chaplain and a Captain? Why not bundle those together and give us the bitz necessary to make the model we want?

I'm sure there are far more things GW could do to help revitalize their game but many those solutions go unseen by the average player (i.e. they are behind the scenes issues).

[Morgan Darkstar]

It's been a hot day here in Texas (seriously! the AC in my house is out!)... perhaps all of the Mods (who live just up the road from me in Austin, Tx are taking siestas!

Nah been this way for over a week must be some sort o holiday

[wittdooley]

GW reminds me of the Comic Book industry.

“The truth is people are leaving anyway, they’re just doing it quietly, and we have been papering it over with increased prices.”

- Dan Didio, co-publisher of DC Comics, Los Angeles Times, August

4. Bundle products to save money. Why have 2 kits for the Rhino and Razorback when one will do? Why have 2 land Raiders when one will do the job? Do we really need a separate kit for a Librarian, a Chaplain and a Captain? Why not bundle those together and give us the bitz necessary to make the model we want?

I'm sure there are far more things GW could do to help revitalize their game but many those solutions go unseen by the average player (i.e. they are behind the scenes issues).

Good god I wish they'd do a plastic character kit for MUhreens. Price it at $30, let us make a regular and termi in any of those 3 flavors and I'd buy at least 3 boxes.

[Bean]

Good god I wish they'd do a plastic character kit for MUhreens. Price it at $30, let us make a regular and termi in any of those 3 flavors and I'd buy at least 3 boxes.

It's true.

With all of these awesome new plastic kits coming out, part of me thinks we might actually see this.

On the other hand, I'm not sure they'll do anything to detract from their Finecast line.

[Daemonette666]

I do not think a Boycott is the term to use here. I have naturally tended to avoid GW shop, atleast for the last 2 years, ever since a new store opened up near to my home. They sell NON-GW products as well as GW products, and I am finding I am buying more NON-GW models now than ever before.

My budget has increased with my new job, but that just means I can get about the same amount as before - accounting for inflation, and the fact that I am buying NON-GW products which are a lot cheaper.

GW prices here in Australia are WAAAAAAAY to over priced, and with the GW ruling that stops you buying from companies like Maelstrom games and getting them sent to Australia, they are forcing me to decide to either pay way more than the ammount people pay for an item in the UK or USA. I could try and find a company in the USA and get them shipped from there, but USA postage is more expensive than getting items from the UK.

My solution is to keep buying, but buy smarter. I buy figurines from - The Wargames Factory, and other specialists manufacturers who produce miniatures that could be easily adapted to suit a similar GW miniature.

I have also worked out that if I save my money up and put an order into Forge World, I can add items from their GW KIts range at the same time, and providing I keep the total price below AU$1,000.00 , I avoid paying import tax. I can then get together with other gamers once a year just after tax time (big refund this year), and put an order in for 2 to 3 thousand dollars Australian between us, break the order up into smaller amounts, each atleast 250.00 english pounds to get the free postage, and include the GW kits which I find are less expensive getting them this way rather than buying them in a GW shop in Sydney.

I voted YES to the Boycott, because I am sort of boycotting them without even actively trying to. I also spend less on 40K these days, and more on other gaming systems, and have increased spending on my old love Classic Battletech, and have now expanded into Dystopian Wars.

I find the GW shop tend to have really stupid inhouse/ inshop rules and I feel like I am a number not a person when I go into one - they constantly push the sell and cross sell (yes it is their job, but it gets very annoying after a while). You can not talk about doctor who, etc, but that is digressing from the point.

I am also sick and tired of the Over Powered, loyalist forces. The aliens and heretics shold get descent Codexes as well. Let us hope they do not stuff up 6th edition 40K and the Chaos Legions Codex.

I have heard on a number of sites that since GW is no longer actively suporting the hobby in events such as CANCOM, MOAB, GENCON, etc, that the event organisers have relaxed the rules on GW only miniatures, and the NON GW armies being used to represent GW only model armies has flourished. I have an army of Traitor Guard, that consists of wargames factory miniatures, GW cadians with alternate heads, some Forge World stuff, and lots of conversions from other manufacturers and even plastic 1:35 scale modern tanks made up to resemble what they should be.

I can now play that army using the Imperial Guard Codex as a recently fallen from grace IG Army, and use all the non GW miniatures I want in a legal tournament, and at my local gaming club which had 10 6'x4' gaming tables.

I still love playing the game. I just collect smarter. You should find that once a newbie has collected their first army and survived the GW buy- buy - buy hype. They tend to digress to local gaming shops and collect non GW models. That is the trend I have found in Australia. It might be a local thing because of the extra price increase Australia has had to live with in the last 5 years or so, but GW will lose sales to other countries. That is probably why they brought out their new rules for European union and UK suppliers making it impossible for them to sell overseas to the USA, Canada, South America, Australia and Asia.

I know I will probably get a lot of people picking at my comments, but I do not care. I collect, I paint, I play the game. Just not so much with new GW miniatures anymore.

[wittdooley]

I'm boycotting so hard I accidentally bought 2 Landraiders and an Empire Gryphon on the way home.

I think I may not be good at this boycotting thing.

[Deadlift]

I'm boycotting so hard I accidentally bought 2 Landraiders and an Empire Gryphon on the way home.

I think I may not be good at this boycotting thing.

I think your confusing boycotting with budgeting, either way your failing hard :)

I myself am boycotting until the storm talons up for preorder, at least 2 I am thinking.

[Chris Copeland]

EDIT: WTF is with the difference between the bols and dakka polls. this one has almost no one boycotting while bols is almost half and half with the same number of votes. Small sample sizes?

I believe he meant Dakka had half voting for and BoLS almost none... an easily understood typo... here is my answer: perhaps the BoLS crowd is a bit older, better educated, less reactionary, and (overall) better suited to dealing with how the world actually works. Perhaps the Dakka crowd is populated by more kids with less worldly experience, a greater sense of entitlement, and a lesser understanding of the basics of capitalism. I am open to hearing differing theories... cheers... Copeland

[gendoikari87]

I believe he meant Dakka had half voting for and BoLS almost none... an easily understood typo... here is my answer: perhaps the BoLS crowd is a bit older, better educated, less reactionary, and (overall) better suited to dealing with how the world actually works. Perhaps the Dakka crowd is populated by more kids with less worldly experience, a greater sense of entitlement, and a lesser understanding of the basics of capitalism. I am open to hearing differing theories... cheers... Copeland

Seeing how well established BOLS is I could believe that BOLS has the older base that have been in the game so long they've acquired Stockholm syndrome after having gone through the early years when prices were reasonable, and so can't understand what it means to be new trying to get into the game, since a lot of what GW has been doing wrong has been recent and not affected them much as they had well established armies, plus they're older and have more disposable income so they're like "$75 for a land raider, eh, okay, WTF are these noobs whining about it's just $75". While the dakkaites are younger and having trouble starting up a proper army on top of trying to learn and improve at the game with very limited resources and look at $75 dollar land raiders and go "WTF that's a month or twos savings for a plastic toy? **** this ****. It's cool but it ain't $75 dollars cool." Because money means more when you have less of it to spend.

[Chris Copeland]

Gendoi, please go back one page and respond to THAT post. That's the one I want to hear from you on. :)

[gendoikari87]

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I suspect it goes more like this: we have some perspective and realize that this is a completely luxury product that no one has a right to. With that in mind we enter the hobby with eyes wide open. We know what our sheckles are worth to us and STILL choose to buy stuff from GW. We each have breaking points but (right now) many of us don't feel we've hit them.

We are confused by YOU: Genny, you seem to think of playing 40K as a right like education, housing, and health care. You can't seem to understand that many of us might agree with you about OTHER things being rights but NOT stuff like GW products. Here are some of my beliefs in black and white:


You have a right to be safe.
You have a right not to starve to death.
You have a right to a public education up through a high school diploma.
You SHOULD have a right to Universal Health Care (I think we Americans are insane when it comes to how we manage health services).
You have a right to Free Speech.
You have a right to an honest, living wage and a safe work environment.
You DON'T have the right to play polo. It costs a lot of money, you have to buy a horse, and probably have to join an elite club to play. You're going to have to make a LOT of money to engage in this hobby...
You DON'T have the right to be on the football team... that's why they have tryouts. If you are good enough you'll make it but many people won't...
You DON'T have the right to a 87" plasma TV... they cost a LOT and you're going to have to save up if you want one... see my point about "polo" above...
You DON'T have the right to play 40K at prices determined by you... you have to play at the prices set by GW... if it's too expensive then you'll have to find a hobby you can afford... see my note about "polo" above.
You DON'T have the right to a Porsche. Again, if you REALLY want a Porsche (I know I do) you'll have to earn a lot of money and save for it... I could do that (it would take a ridiculously long time) but I choose NOT to because I have higher priorities (such as my mortgage payment, preparing for my kids' college educations, a nice bottle of wine from time to time, and getting my central AC fixed because it's starting to get hot here in Texas).

So, there ya go. I look forward to your well reasoned response... Copeland

This the one?

Lets get one thing straight, you are correct you don't have a RIGHT to play GW games, that does not make it right to charge exorbitant prices above what the cost of production is (which if GW is offering their product at a 20% discount to retailers means they are already overcharging 20%, and god knows how much they've marked it up for the retailers). This goes for everything, Luxury, need, resource. Whatever. Why? because of the way it skews the market of labor and sets up a required imbalance, and that is where the right comes in, you have the right to the full value of your input into society, nothing more nothing less. Now because of the way capitalism is set up, the rarer your skills, the more you get paid. The more common your skills the less. So the imbalance is placed on the backs of the majority. And in any case the goal of any company is to minimize costs (which include labor costs) and sell their product for as high a price (well maximizing Number of units sold x price). Which with all these factors in place it is impossible to have a system that comes near allowing for everyone to come close to attaining fair compensation due to the nature of the system.

So, yes things will never be "fair" under a capitalist system because corporate profits are needed to reinvest in firms, and provide innovation (which is only for a capitalist system but we're assuming that's all that's available here). But that doesn't make it right to go full blast and exacerbate the system which inherently feeds off the majority to give to a minority, Irregardless of how well the majority may or may not have it. We're humans, technological and societal achievements are for everyone, not just the rich, the rich get to get it first, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to increase the standard of living for everyone at the same time, otherwise we'd all be living like most people did in the middle ages.

And we didn't used to go full blast either, there was a time when honor and fairness meant something. Luckily americans and most of the free world have some form of limitations on capitalism, otherwise you get crap like china where you're paid pennies an hour.

[ksoh75]

This the one?

Lets get one thing straight, you are correct you don't have a RIGHT to play GW games, that does not make it right to charge exorbitant prices above what the cost of production is (which if GW is offering their product at a 20% discount to retailers means they are already overcharging 20%, and god knows how much they've marked it up for the retailers). This goes for everything, Luxury, need, resource. Whatever. Why? because of the way it skews the market of labor and sets up a required imbalance, and that is where the right comes in, you have the right to the full value of your input into society, nothing more nothing less. Now because of the way capitalism is set up, the rarer your skills, the more you get paid. The more common your skills the less. So the imbalance is placed on the backs of the majority. And in any case the goal of any company is to minimize costs (which include labor costs) and sell their product for as high a price (well maximizing Number of units sold x price). Which with all these factors in place it is impossible to have a system that comes near allowing for everyone to come close to attaining fair compensation due to the nature of the system.

So, yes things will never be "fair" under a capitalist system because corporate profits are needed to reinvest in firms, and provide innovation (which is only for a capitalist system but we're assuming that's all that's available here). But that doesn't make it right to go full blast and exacerbate the system which inherently feeds off the majority to give to a minority, Irregardless of how well the majority may or may not have it. We're humans, technological and societal achievements are for everyone, not just the rich, the rich get to get it first, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to increase the standard of living for everyone at the same time, otherwise we'd all be living like most people did in the middle ages.

And we didn't used to go full blast either, there was a time when honor and fairness meant something. Luckily americans and most of the free world have some form of limitations on capitalism, otherwise you get crap like china where you're paid pennies an hour.




I can simplify this......GW is a company that creates models for several games as well as many other things. They can do what they want. It's their company. They also don't care if you or the Queen of England plays the game or buys their product because they know The King of France and Santa Clause will buy the $75 Land Raider because they want to.

In other words, we all have the right to our opinions. We all do. We all however have different philosophies on life. I believe in God and am Catholic. You may believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. Do I push my beliefs and come in here screaming BOYCOT BOYCOT THE ANTICHRIST CONTROLS THE BANKS....

so....yeah...........you are 1....we are many.....simple as that.

[gendoikari87]

I can simplify this......GW is a company that creates models for several games as well as many other things. They can do what they want. It's their company. They also don't care if you or the Queen of England plays the game or buys their product because they know The King of France and Santa Clause will buy the $75 Land Raider because they want to.

In other words, we all have the right to our opinions. We all do. We all however have different philosophies on life. I believe in God and am Catholic. You may believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. Do I push my beliefs and come in here screaming BOYCOT BOYCOT THE ANTICHRIST CONTROLS THE BANKS....

so....yeah...........you are 1....we are many.....simple as that.

You didn't even understand a word I spoke did you? No, because if you did you'd realize the irony in your post.

[Rissan4ever]

I boycott companies that kill people, destroy the environment or otherwise do harm. I don't boycott a company that makes expensive toy soldiers.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Eldargal. Boycotts are for stuff that MATTERS, not plastic dudesmen.

[ksoh75]

You didn't even understand a word I spoke did you? No, because if you did you'd realize the irony in your post.

Ya know what......I don't care.....you know why?? Cuz I don't give 2 ****s that you do or don't understand.

I don't care anymore. Simple as that. I'm going to keep buying......you're not going to change my mind or stop me cuz I have free will and am an adult and do what I please. Simple as that.

It all comes down to choice.


Maybe I'm too simple minded for you....

[Gyar]

Whats wrong with a Land Raider being $75 if you just started the game. If you just started, or started not long ago, whoopity do? You knew the game was expensive when you got into it. If on the other hand you were turned off by a $75 Land Raider when you were hobby shopping, you probably kept going past the GW shelf and saw something that caught your eye that was more "reasonable."

GW is its own beast, it will florish or die when its ready, that's not our choice, its theirs. As for me, I am probably going to keep feeding the beast because I like when it does tricks and entertains me. If one day I can't afford it, I will probably pass it off to someone that can.

Can we stop this silly topic and agree to disagree or roll a D6 and see which side is right and be done with it?

[Chuck777]

GW is charging too much for their luxury item. My perceived value for their product was strained 4 years ago. it has only become more strained as time has marched on.

I have more than one hobby and GW doesn't really allow you to embrace their games AND play other games at the same time.

I used to be the kind of gamer that bought every codex and even dabbled into half the available armies just for the fun of it. But I can't afford to do that any more. Codexes used to be 20 dollars. You could afford to own every one of them. Now Codexes are going to cost 45 dollars. I cannot and will not shell out that much money just so I can read the rules of the armies I do not play. The prices of models have also skyrocketed. I cannot afford to dabble any more.

This price hike frustrates me so much because I LIKED the way I played the game. It brought me a lot of joy and happiness.

GW robbed me of my happiness and I am sad.

[lobster-overlord]

I'm going to just get better at sculpting my own stuff now...

[Bean]

I've been thinking for a while now that it's time to learn some 3d modeling software...

3d printing, I think, is where it's at.

[wittdooley]

GW is charging too much for their luxury item. My perceived value for their product was strained 4 years ago. it has only become more strained as time has marched on.

.

To you.

Much like it seems like others on this thread can, I am able to budget my modest income to afford a MONTHLY budget. With the price increase, I simply may not get as much. In turn, I may actually get more painting done.

With all that being said, I have plenty of friends that are a part of this hobby that make well into the six figures.

The thing about "dorky" hobbies is that they tend to have a lot of high income earning people participating in them. There's a reason a company like Geek Chic (http://www.geekchichq.com/) can stay in business. There's a reason FFG can sell $100 games consistently.

I'm probably going to come of sound callous, but if you're living paycheck to paycheck, or are unemployed, this probably isn't the hobby for you jump into. It's a moderately expensive hobby, but no more so than Golfing, or Skiing, or even being a videogamer.

As for GW not "allowing" you to play other games. What? That's ludicrous. There are plenty of games you can play instead of or in addition to 40k. And GW doesn't prevent you from purchasing them. No one from GW HQ sent me a cease and desist when I made a Dust Warfare purchase last week.

TBH, your "happiness" sounds like the most expensive way to participate in this hobby. And claiming GW "robbed" you of that happiness is just silly. Are they refusing to let you play with ALL of the stuff you still have? No?

As for Gendo -- You keep trying to claim this moral high ground to dictate the "right" price to pay for plastic soldiers. We've been around this merry-go-round before. The "right" price for 40k is the price the market will bear. As a public company, GW owes you nothing unless you're a shareholder, and then they owe you their best effort to maximize profits.

And I'm sorry. Not everyone is entitled to the same privileges. I'm probably never going to own a Maserati or a 15-bedroom house. I'll probably never own a race horse or a yacht. I've never felt slighted because of these things. Your notion of entitlement is absurd, and as I've intimated plenty of times before, is one of the prevailing problems in the United States.

[gendoikari87]

To you.

Much like it seems like others on this thread can, I am able to budget my modest income to afford a MONTHLY budget. With the price increase, I simply may not get as much. In turn, I may actually get more painting done.

With all that being said, I have plenty of friends that are a part of this hobby that make well into the six figures.

The thing about "dorky" hobbies is that they tend to have a lot of high income earning people participating in them. There's a reason a company like Geek Chic (http://www.geekchichq.com/) can stay in business. There's a reason FFG can sell $100 games consistently.

I'm probably going to come of sound callous, but if you're living paycheck to paycheck, or are unemployed, this probably isn't the hobby for you jump into. It's a moderately expensive hobby, but no more so than Golfing, or Skiing, or even being a videogamer.

As for GW not "allowing" you to play other games. What? That's ludicrous. There are plenty of games you can play instead of or in addition to 40k. And GW doesn't prevent you from purchasing them. No one from GW HQ sent me a cease and desist when I made a Dust Warfare purchase last week.

TBH, your "happiness" sounds like the most expensive way to participate in this hobby. And claiming GW "robbed" you of that happiness is just silly. Are they refusing to let you play with ALL of the stuff you still have? No?

As for Gendo -- You keep trying to claim this moral high ground to dictate the "right" price to pay for plastic soldiers. We've been around this merry-go-round before. The "right" price for 40k is the price the market will bear. As a public company, GW owes you nothing unless you're a shareholder, and then they owe you their best effort to maximize profits.

And I'm sorry. Not everyone is entitled to the same privileges. I'm probably never going to own a Maserati or a 15-bedroom house. I'll probably never own a race horse or a yacht. I've never felt slighted because of these things. Your notion of entitlement is absurd, and as I've intimated plenty of times before, is one of the prevailing problems in the United States.

I see your lips moving but all I hear is "blah blah blah* you deserve to have the rich steal part of your labor.

I know that's not what you're saying because you don't understand the greater socio-economic principals at work here but that's what you're saying.


And I'm sorry. Not everyone is entitled to the same privileges.

never did I say they were entitled to the same privileges.


I'll probably never own a race horse or a yacht.

no **** sherlock, not everyones capable of that level of earning, but the ones that do, usually but not allways, do it on the backs of others.

[gendoikari87]

Gendoi, please go back one page and respond to THAT post. That's the one I want to hear from you on. :)

I responded, no response?

[Uncle Nutsy]

If you can't pay for the models, you got problems in your life that no one but yourself can help.


no, don't bother to respond with an essay-like post because I won't respond to it and frankly... I don't care! I have too much fun in life to even bother responding to wah posts.

[gendoikari87]

If you can't pay for the models, you got problems in your life that no one but yourself can help.


no, don't bother to respond with an essay-like post because I won't respond to it and frankly... I don't care! I have too much fun in life to even bother responding to wah posts.

Wasn't going to, it was fun arguing with small brained people who can't grasp a larger picture than their own circumstances but now it's just pathetic.

[wittdooley]

I see your lips moving but all I hear is "blah blah blah* you deserve to have the rich steal part of your labor.

I know that's not what you're saying because you don't understand the greater socio-economic principals at work here but that's what you're saying.


Enlighten me. Have the "rich steal part of my labor?" Please, enlighten me. The company I work for makes money as a result of my labor, and I am compensated for said labor. They're not "stealing any part of my labor." As we discussed before, if one is unhappy with their compensation, they are under no obligation to stay in that employ.

If anyone is "stealing part of my labor" it's the government through taxation to support all the lazy and uneducated people sucking on the teat our or social services.



never did I say they were entitled to the same privileges.

So...perhaps that would include little plastic men?




no **** sherlock, not everyones capable of that level of earning, but the ones that do, usually but not allways, do it on the backs of others.

"On the backs of others?" You seem to be under some delusion that the people that run successful Fortune 500s got in those positions through voodoo or magic. Typically, these people EARN those position and are compensated thusly for doing so.

And you "claim" you respond to questions asked of you, except that you don't. You've typically show yourself to be one that selectively responds to questions raised, usually with the same redundant argument that doesn't hold much water, and conveniently claims "morality" as the source of support, and is therefore impossible to disprove due to the personal nature of what is or is not moral.

So please, enlighten me on these "greater socio-economic principles" that you claim to know so much about that I'm too obtuse to get.

[Chris Copeland]

I responded, no response?

No response was necessary. The very words you used proved that you are either a troll or lack any basic understanding of economics... neither option has a future. It was fun interacting with you, though! I prefer to think that you were just trolling us because, c'mon, no one could actually believe the crap you were espousing about a luxury like expensive army men!

Good luck, Gendo! If you weren't trolling us (Dear God, let that NOT be the case) the world will teach you the differences between necessities and luxuries right quick. If you were trolling us then you are the best of the best and I admire your work! Bravo, sir... bravo!

Copeland

[Gir]

I see your lips moving but all I hear is "blah blah blah* you deserve to have the rich steal part of your labor.

I know that's not what you're saying because you don't understand the greater socio-economic principals at work here but that's what you're saying.



never did I say they were entitled to the same privileges.



no **** sherlock, not everyones capable of that level of earning, but the ones that do, usually but not allways, do it on the backs of others.

Serious question: Are you 12?

[inquisitorsog]

Unfortunately the fan base for GW is too 'fanboyish' to be boycotted.

I read on one of the blogs on BoLS that 40k is like a comic book style game of toy soldiers. So yeah with that in mind, we all know how fan boys are about their fav comic books, they'll take a bullet for it, walk on fire, split the seas, summon the apocalypse to make sure they keep supporting it.

Funny you mention comic books.
This is a link everyone really should read:
http://www.vonallan.com/2011/08/minimum-wage-and-prices-of-comics.html

And yes, I'll keep posting that link in various spots til I'm quite sure everyone has read it. I think it is stunningly relevant to the discussion.

[Akaiyou]

To you.

Much like it seems like others on this thread can, I am able to budget my modest income to afford a MONTHLY budget. With the price increase, I simply may not get as much. In turn, I may actually get more painting done.

With all that being said, I have plenty of friends that are a part of this hobby that make well into the six figures.

The thing about "dorky" hobbies is that they tend to have a lot of high income earning people participating in them. There's a reason a company like Geek Chic (http://www.geekchichq.com/) can stay in business. There's a reason FFG can sell $100 games consistently.

I'm probably going to come of sound callous, but if you're living paycheck to paycheck, or are unemployed, this probably isn't the hobby for you jump into. It's a moderately expensive hobby, but no more so than Golfing, or Skiing, or even being a videogamer.

As for GW not "allowing" you to play other games. What? That's ludicrous. There are plenty of games you can play instead of or in addition to 40k. And GW doesn't prevent you from purchasing them. No one from GW HQ sent me a cease and desist when I made a Dust Warfare purchase last week.

TBH, your "happiness" sounds like the most expensive way to participate in this hobby. And claiming GW "robbed" you of that happiness is just silly. Are they refusing to let you play with ALL of the stuff you still have? No?

As for Gendo -- You keep trying to claim this moral high ground to dictate the "right" price to pay for plastic soldiers. We've been around this merry-go-round before. The "right" price for 40k is the price the market will bear. As a public company, GW owes you nothing unless you're a shareholder, and then they owe you their best effort to maximize profits.

And I'm sorry. Not everyone is entitled to the same privileges. I'm probably never going to own a Maserati or a 15-bedroom house. I'll probably never own a race horse or a yacht. I've never felt slighted because of these things. Your notion of entitlement is absurd, and as I've intimated plenty of times before, is one of the prevailing problems in the United States.

This was a fair counter-point in general.

Goes along with some of the things i've said earlier about the hobby being on some elitist bull crap.
And that is one of the reason why we have these ridiculous prices

Which supports my statement that whoever here is trying to claim that GW is simply increasing price due to increase in cost is being absurd. Because they are just trying to keep their elitist hobby in the elitist category.

Their costs have gone down since their switch to finecast and plastics they are more profitable as shown in their latest reports so this increase is nothing short of unnecessary if only for the sake of pillaging our wallets further.

Also I want to note that they are indeed entitled to price their products as they wish as long as the market supports it. But this doesn't make it a 'fair' price.

And it is the 'elitist' bunch that are also partially responsible for the ridiculous prices, after all if us 'normal' low hobby budject folk did some day go on strike against GW, as with yachts and maseratis and all the other 'high class luxury items' in the world, im sure this would just motivate them to make it even more elite and those folk would fully support it.

I blame that sense of entitlement to play the hobby that some of you people have just because you can afford it to be quite nauseating. In the end this is a game of toy soldiers, that's quite fun and could appeal to a much wider base audience if the push was made.

There's just 1 GW store in New York conveniently placed right by NYU. Rich kids, rich community, etc takes me an hour by train to get there (yup TRAIN can't afford a car). Would be nice to get a store closer you know in the area of the city where not everything is all rainbows and poodles. I started the hobby out with 6 other friends from the "poor" part of town so its quite clear that even those less fortunate are attracted to the hobby for what it is not for what it costs.

Yet that will never happen...sad truth. I'm sure many of you have similar stories with your local GW store if there is any at all locally for you.

I bet richie rich has a GW store in his house =P

[jonsgot]

You can make your point without a boycott. Just order something off thie price increase list before the 28th May and then try not to buy anything else on it for 12 months. I'm not going to do this by the way. While some of the increases are shocking, it's a very small section of the range, there's lots that didn't go up.

[Deadlift]

Wasn't going to, it was fun arguing with small brained people who can't grasp a larger picture than their own circumstances but now it's just pathetic.


We all knew it, but you just outed yourself, TROLL ;)

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

gendoikari87... You seem like a fundamentalists, you respond with your own Dogma and opinion to rational arguments. The price increase isn't fun, but I've never changed my buying rate... Well maybe a little, but thats because I understand how to game now :). I never brought true masses of the Plastic-crack.

Like people said... it isn't a boycott it's just some people not buying models. But as always the money wont be the only reason your not buying, oh and the fact you are getting on the Soap box means you still give a crap :D... If you truly didnt then you wouldn't feel the need to complain :).

[uleeno]

Just before you boycott.... remember to stock up a lot of storm ravens now to exchange for stuff you need at any GW after the price hike!

A storm raven now can almost get you two dreadnoughts!!!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I am STILL surprised that this is STILL here.

I wonder what shananigans Gendo has for us today!

[Chuck777]

To you.

Much like it seems like others on this thread can, I am able to budget my modest income to afford a MONTHLY budget. With the price increase, I simply may not get as much. In turn, I may actually get more painting done.

Except you are missing the point.

I am not poor. Nor do I lack the understanding of the finer points of budgeting and saving up.

My point was that, TO ME, I am not getting my money's worth out of the game. I loved my opulent lifestyle because I felt like each dollar I spent was netting me hours of fun.

Four years of double digit price hikes later and I don't feel the same any more.

34 dollars for a single model in terminator armor? 40 dollars for a Rhino? 82 dollars for a dinky jet?

These are not prices that scream "value for money." Not that they ever did, really. Prices were high because they served as a gate keeper and I was more or less ok with that. But these new price points feel, TO ME, to be too high. I don't perceive them as giving me the same kind of value for my money as they once did.

This FEELING is not quantifiable and it will differ from person to person. This FEELING is really where this whole debate is centered upon. You do not FEEL GW is bilking you. I do. Neither of us can take our arguments and hold them up as the undeniable truth that all mankind should look to in awe of.

This is just a discussion between a bunch of nerds who all spend too much on toy soldiers. Some of us feel the prices are too high to continue their investment, while others disagree.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Then take advantage of the FREE part of the game and play!

Apart from a few bits in the new wave of 'crons I haven't actually bought any models in months!
Nowadays I only buy paints and novels. £2.30 for paints is not a big take out from my budget, and neither is £7.99 for a novel.

[Wolfshade]

Where are those from?
They are from the latest half year report by GW http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2011-12-Press-statement.pdf its on page 3

They also don't care if you or the Queen of England plays the game or buys their product because they know The King of France and Santa Clause will buy the $75 Land Raider because they want to.
Santa plays 40K ZOMG!!!!1111one111
The only Boycott I'd like to see in GW is this one:
http://www.biographyonline.net/sport/cricketers/geoff-boycott.jpg

[Psychosplodge]

£2.30 for paint?
find yourself an independent stockist selling off the old paint cheap...
£1 a pot I paid last time I was buying paint, for the previous range of citadels.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I like the new paints, much easier to use.

Plus, I really like texture paint, it is my new god!

[JonnyRoxtar]

The prices are going up again.

Hows that boycott working out for you?

[fuzzbuket]

every time theres a price increase this happens, people rage and say they wont buy. gw releases some new plastic crack. BUY BUY BUY

[Chuck777]

every time theres a price increase this happens, people rage and say they wont buy. gw releases some new plastic crack. BUY BUY BUY

Australia has proven people don't always buy buy buy. Lots of people STOP STOP STOP. :)

[Ketharim]

Hehehe I like these discussions about GW´s price increases :)

When I read the comments I sometimes imagine that there must be a bunch of GW sales reps out there, knocking on doors with a big club in hand, forcing people to buy their stuff ^^

I do not really care much for the GW prices and you know why? Because I simply like their products and the game and if I have the feeling a specific modell is not worth the price (like for example most Finecast stuff right now) I simply do not buy it or take a look at Ebay or independent resellers for a better price.

Also I do not buy all stuff I want to have at once, why should I, I am not able to build and paint that fast anyway^^ And if you split the purchases over some weeks or even months/years, its not that expensive at all ;)

Just my 2 cents and thanks a lot for the entertaining, gets sometimes quite boring in office ;)

[Wolfshade]

Not really, 2011 sales 10630, 2010 sale 10795 (in £000s) drop of 1.5% during downturn, combined with increased operational profits in 2011 would seem to suggest that there isn't a big effect

[ksoh75]

We're we just called small brained???

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes we were. My small and inferior brain cannot comprehend the complexities of this retort.

[Col.Gravis]

Ah, another price rise, another 'quick lets boycott them' thread, nothing changes eh?

If you can't afford it, or are outraged by the latest rise, fine dont buy GW, but please please please stop whinging about it? Nobody really cares! :rolleyes:

[Renegade]

Yes we were. My small and inferior brain cannot comprehend the complexities of this retort.

I am still finding it amusing that Gendo can't get his head around basic economics.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I am still finding it amusing that Gendo can't get his head around basic economics.

WHAT IS THIS! HOW DOES MONEY WORK.
http://www.troll.me/images/arnold-disgusting/what-is-this-i-dont-even.jpg

[DrLove42]

I've realised what this thread reminds me of...its like all the facebook groups of

"No one us Facebook on this date and they'll change everything back!!"

or "Don't buy any petrol on this date, that'll show those oil companies!"

They achieve nothing. This acheives nothing. And both are usually suggested for and pushed by idiots.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

True story!

Is it possible to boycott a boycott? YO DAWG.

[sangrail777]

Why is it every time I see one of these boycott threads I'm reminded of a guy on the side walk with a sign telling every one in ear shot that the "end is nigh".........(or whatever)

I for one like GW and GW products and will continue to buy from them.

[miteyheroes]

this one you pulled out your ***, housing is still down 20% and that's a conservative esitmate.

Nonsense. In the UK average house prices went over £100,000 in Feb 2002 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1803810.stm
In Jan-Mar 2012 they were at £226,887 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/html/houses.stm

They've risen over 126% since 2002!

In much the same way GW boxes that used to cost £10 are now over £20. That's just what happens. GW increases are normally over inflation, it's true, but they're making a complete luxury product. And their costs are increasing over inflation. So yeah, whatever.

[Chaoschrist]

I won't boycott them, but I'll buy less from them. Especially if it's directly from them. I'll ebay more.

I do however, but I have no proof of this, feel that the "problem" of price increases is mainly a thing by people who own a lot of grey hordes. I'm not saying everyone who has unpainted mini's whines now, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the reality. "I want to buy and buy and buy... oh, GW ups prices... but I want to buy just as much as I did before. GW I hate you!".

Space out your purchases more, take your time to paint, and spending 50 or 55 a month on a box of mini's isn't a problem. It is if you spend say 200 a month, and cause then it's like 220 to 225 for the same amount of stuff.

Besides; if I were to buy every release of GW (and eventually own every army to some extent)... I don't even think I can find the time (or motivation) to paint all of it (and I do have lots of spare time), before a new wave gets released. But then again, I never have grey hordes around. I'll drop by GW when I'm out of models, not when they push something new on me.

So, price increases... no of course I'm not happy with it, but with that I'm not funding the existence of a GW brick and mortar store with my hoarding of mini's bought at their stores either, so those 5 bucks extra I pay for a box in a while... meh.

If you're not too happy with the price increase but want GW items. Buy everything you want from them before price increase... if that's way beyond your budget (say over 300%), I'll point back to "grey hordes" like stated earlier.

[flekkzo]

Yup, it's painfully obvious that GW is going to keep raising prices above inflation until they price everyone they can out, intentionally or not. That said if you are tired of the GW price increases, don't just "keep the budget the same", join me in my already year long boycott and lets teach Mr. Wells this is not the correct business model, and that we are not happy.

May I suggest writing to GW? If you, and all who feel that their pricing model do hurt the hobby (economy of scale vs luxury items and all that stuff) sit down and write a hand written letter and mail it to GW (to Jervis for instance) and keep it short and polite it will send more of a message than internet rage or a boycott (they don't know why you are not buying, how could they?).

[wittdooley]

This FEELING is not quantifiable and it will differ from person to person. This FEELING is really where this whole debate is centered upon. You do not FEEL GW is bilking you. I do. Neither of us can take our arguments and hold them up as the undeniable truth that all mankind should look to in awe of.


Well, you're right there.

Everyone is entitled to their feelings (which, by the way, is a phrase I learned in our pre-marriage Catholic camp thing; I encourage all of you married folks to use this on your spouse when they're being unreasonable. It is amazing).

Anyways. As I tried to mention at this start of this rambling thread of nonsense, I don't want to hear the *****ing and moaning from veteran players. If you're a vet, you should have all that you need to play the game. Last time I checked, like Tzeentch said, playing the game is free. And while hobby paints and brushes are not, painting is also free.

If we'd like to discuss how we think this will impact a new player base, then we can more than go into that, as I think it's probably the more prudent issue to discuss. Bear in mind that a video game is only marginally less expensive than a Warhammer model, and buying into a videogame system is near the same pricepoint at $250-$350 bucks, depending. As that is really the major competitor for the demographic 40k is aimed it, it seems like that's the comparison we should be closer addressing.

[wittdooley]

Nonsense. In the UK average house prices went over £100,000 in Feb 2002 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1803810.stm
In Jan-Mar 2012 they were at £226,887 - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/in_depth/uk_house_prices/html/houses.stm

They've risen over 126% since 2002!

In much the same way GW boxes that used to cost £10 are now over £20. That's just what happens. GW increases are normally over inflation, it's true, but they're making a complete luxury product. And their costs are increasing over inflation. So yeah, whatever.

Don't even bother. I pointed out where I sourced my information from. When he's directed to concrete fact that contradicts his viewpoint, he ignores you and apparently now calls you small-minded.

[stebloke]

Like some others have said: buy if you want them and think the prices are worth it, or don't buy if you don't want them or think the prices are not worth it.

I myself had been buying pretty much entirely online to get the discounts for a few years, but I stopped buying altogether in Jan last year. It's not that I can't afford the stuff, I just don't think they are worth what we are now being asked to pay. They are just little plastic figures after all. Why so expensive? I don't get it.

But this is definielty not just GW though, as they are definitely not the most expensive makers out there. Every now and then I look for alternate models, mainly for Blood Bowl (love that game so much) but almost every other manufacturer is more expensive than GW or produces models that are nowhere near as good.

My main problem with the GW price rises is that they seem to do it every year no matter what, as if it's part of their business model, rather than rise the prices when it's really necessary which I would understand. I don't know what really happens behind the scenes, but that's just what it seems like to me.

It's a real shame as GW are probably my fave model maker, and if their prices were cheaper I and other friends of mine would buy many more models and armies, but we've all now pretty much stopped collecting. We haven't even had a game or even really discussed wargaming in getting on for 6 months. Our collective spirit is a little broken, and it's poop.

[DrLove42]

. Bear in mind that a video game is only marginally less expensive than a Warhammer model, and buying into a videogame system is near the same pricepoint at $250-$350 bucks, depending. As that is really the major competitor for the demographic 40k is aimed it, it seems like that's the comparison we should be closer addressing.

I had this thought earlier on. You can't say kids won't spend the money when they regularly drop £50-$60 on a game that last 5-6 hours.
Yes you can talk about trade in and stuff like that, but only the really big game models get to the same price point.
A decent painter will get the same length of time out of painting as you would playing a game, and then gets lots of games afterwards.

Also bear in mind the improvement we've had over the years. We've gone from this
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AfIQ2AogLLc/TMB5ztjO_xI/AAAAAAAAAN8/kW_ou-C3JjI/s1600/dark%2Beldar%2Bwyches%2Bold.jpg

to this

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1420154a_99120112008_DEWyches1_873x627.jpg
In 5 years (yes i know the DE are much older than thta, but GW was still selling these models 5 years ago)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Last time I checked, like Tzeentch said, playing the game is free. And while hobby paints and brushes are not, painting is also free.

Glad to see that someone admires the master's work. :D


But seriously, as a veteran, I have everything that I need to play a game, and the majority of it is painted.
You can't really be called a veteran if you don't have an army as you can't play the game to be a veteran.

[ksoh75]

$5 bucks or a blister says I actually keep this army!!!! LOL:D

[Macerio]

Gendo, legitimate viewpoints or not, insulting people solely because they don't agree with you is not an aid to enlightened discourse or due weight to your positions, brother. (Though curiously, are you in Georgia? You remind me of a player who I consistently see taking similar positions during casual games.)


May I suggest writing to GW? If you, and all who feel that their pricing model do hurt the hobby (economy of scale vs luxury items and all that stuff) sit down and write a hand written letter and mail it to GW (to Jervis for instance) and keep it short and polite it will send more of a message than internet rage or a boycott (they don't know why you are not buying, how could they?).

THIS. This was precisely what I wanted to state. While as a publicly traded company, GW has a duty to its shareholders, they're in the hobby business. They might produce a luxury good, but they'd be fools to not consider the viewpoints of their consumers.


Well, you're right there.
Anyways. As I tried to mention at this start of this rambling thread of nonsense, I don't want to hear the *****ing and moaning from veteran players. If you're a vet, you should have all that you need to play the game. Last time I checked, like Tzeentch said, playing the game is free. And while hobby paints and brushes are not, painting is also free.

This, in my opinion, is missing at least part of the point, though. Though you did make a point of mentioning the concerns about involving new players (something friends of mine have personally encountered), part of keeping gamer involvement is not raising price barriers to keeping players already involved from purchasing new armies. (Accounting of course for the normal attrition that games like this always go through as some parties grow up and some parties - like, um, me - don't.) For instance, I already own three armies (well, two and a half). I'm working slowly on painting my gray hordes, so I can deal with the new prices. While I can add piecemeal to these armies, perhaps over time even retool my third army, the price barriers to creating a new army actively interfere with the odds that I'll build a new Chaos Legions army, something I'd really like to do. (As other commenters have noted similar mentalities of buying less or no more out of budgetary concerns and not nerd rage, I'm not alone on this one.) So, if older players don't continue to stay and actively grow within the hobby, it pretty much means that they're going to have to make up the short fall by relying on new entrants more and more -- an issue that might not be viable if price barriers keep out new and/or younger players.

Additionally, I don't think it's "whining" to note, perhaps even complain in a reasonable fashion about, habits that might diminish short- or long-term enjoyment and growth of a hobby. Many of us are personally invested in it, frequently for a much longer time than other miniature games. (I'm 28, been playing since middle school with necessary breaks in college and law school, and I've just now started thinking that there are other viable miniature games.) If GW continues down a path that I honestly think will be detrimental to the continued viability and growth of a game, it behooves me to move with more than just my feet or my money; after all, if it damaging to the continued growth of the hobby, it increases the chance that I'll be stuck with a bunch of fun ol' metal men and no one to play them with. Labeling such reasonable discourse "whining" (which might or might not have been what you were doing) I think perhaps diminishes the legitimacy of the arguments themselves.

On that note, reading through this discussion has just convinced me to perhaps buy a few shares of GW stock if only to be a thorn in their side. Then you couldn't call me a "whiner," but a "person to whom GW owes a fiduciary duty" ... :D


My main problem with the GW price rises is that they seem to do it every year no matter what, as if it's part of their business model, rather than rise the prices when it's really necessary which I would understand. I don't know what really happens behind the scenes, but that's just what it seems like to me.

It's a real shame as GW are probably my fave model maker, and if their prices were cheaper I and other friends of mine would buy many more models and armies, but we've all now pretty much stopped collecting. We haven't even had a game or even really discussed wargaming in getting on for 6 months. Our collective spirit is a little broken, and it's poop.

Again, this is precisely my issue. I love the models, like the rules as a whole, and love the universe in a way it's hard to imagine being as invested in, say, WarmaHordes or Malifeux. However, it's hard for me to justify buying a whole new army in a way that I could if the prices were moderately lower or better balanced.

[wittdooley]

This, in my opinion, is missing at least part of the point, though. Though you did make a point of mentioning the concerns about involving new players (something friends of mine have personally encountered), part of keeping gamer involvement is not raising price barriers to keeping players already involved from purchasing new armies. (Accounting of course for the normal attrition that games like this always go through as some parties grow up and some parties - like, um, me - don't.) For instance, I already own three armies (well, two and a half). I'm working slowly on painting my gray hordes, so I can deal with the new prices. While I can add piecemeal to these armies, perhaps over time even retool my third army, the price barriers to creating a new army actively interfere with the odds that I'll build a new Chaos Legions army, something I'd really like to do. (As other commenters have noted similar mentalities of buying less or no more out of budgetary concerns and not nerd rage, I'm not alone on this one.) So, if older players don't continue to stay and actively grow within the hobby, it pretty much means that they're going to have to make up the short fall by relying on new entrants more and more -- an issue that might not be viable if price barriers keep out new and/or younger players.

I'm right with you there, though my question would be, "Can't you start a new army, but do it gradually?" I'm with many that, despite being the Emperor's Whoredog, would love to do a Thousand Sons Chaos army if they release some new bangin plastics. Now, to be fair, I'm more of a buy-at-the-onset-and-not-spend-the-following-month kind of guy, but couldn't I simply buy the boxes my monthly budget allows in the release week, then buy the rest that I need the following month? I almost wonder that, if I did this, if I wouldn't have more than just one full painted army and have less random painted squads sitting around.



Additionally, I don't think it's "whining" to note, perhaps even complain in a reasonable fashion about, habits that might diminish short- or long-term enjoyment and growth of a hobby. Many of us are personally invested in it, frequently for a much longer time than other miniature games. (I'm 28, been playing since middle school with necessary breaks in college and law school, and I've just now started thinking that there are other viable miniature games.) If GW continues down a path that I honestly think will be detrimental to the continued viability and growth of a game, it behooves me to move with more than just my feet or my money; after all, if it damaging to the continued growth of the hobby, it increases the chance that I'll be stuck with a bunch of fun ol' metal men and no one to play them with. Labeling such reasonable discourse "whining" (which might or might not have been what you were doing) I think perhaps diminishes the legitimacy of the arguments themselves.

I think that sense of investment is one of the unique, sometimes great, but often times maddening, aspect to any "dork" hobby. Because they're smaller, and more niche, more players feel that sense of entitlment that I've alluded to before, particularly in the sense that the company "owes" them something or that they should have a larger role in the development of said hobby. You see this a TON in boardgaming as well, so it isn't simply 40k.

I had to smile a bit at your assertation that some of the whining on here has been reasonable. I'm totally down with your points; they're well thought out and well meaning. But come on. I realize this thread has grown exponentially, and I agree there has been some reasonable discussion, but so much of the dissent has been boiled down to, "I can't afford X amount so this isn't fair." Is that really reasonable? I get the cost-benefit associated with making a decision to no longer invest in the game, but here's the thing: you can simply play with, or hobby with, what you already have. If you have a a dedicated game group, this shouldn't have any affect on you save for your financial inability to purchase more models.

I often feel like there are too many people in this hobby stretched paper thin who then complain when their costs go up. Do you feel bad for smokers that complain when a carton of cigarettes go up in price? I don't. Smoking is a choice you make for yourself to participate in, just like playing 40k is. The good thing about 40k when juxtapozed to smoking is that there's no special tax placed on playing 40k, but also that you can keep using your goods you already own, despite any price rise.

I make cost-benefit analyses all the time. I made one recently with Diablo III. Was I willing to shell out $60 bucks for ANOTHER video game. I mean, I have Mass Effect III and Kingdoms of Amalur sitting there unfinshed. I chose to because I have friends playing it and it would thus allow me some additional socialization time with them. Further, I figured I'd play it enough to justify spending the $60 bucks.

If you use the standard "Dinner & a Movie" to measure your "entertainment" budget, you figure you're looking at every hour of "entertainment time' costing about $15 bucks an hour (4 hours and $60 bucks for the Dinner/Movie). Looking at a Land Raider, and I'll even give you the new price of $75, I'll probably get 10 hours out of the model (not including playing with it), bringing it to my entertainment time costing $7.50 an hour. It's part of the reason I like buying RPGs when I buy video games. I feel like it's a good value for my money. This reasoning is why nearly every video game includes a multiplayer mode these days. You've gotta fight for those entertainment dollars, and giving a game more replayability figures into this. For me, anything that weighs in less than that a dinner and a movie cost is usually pretty good with me, but I recognize that other's may have lower "entertainment dollar" thresholds. So even at $75 bucks, buying a Land Raider is, to me, a decent enough value.

It all comes down to perspective, of course. I still hold to the notion that, if you're living paycheck to paycheck, then maybe this hobby isn't for you. There are other, much more affordable ways to enjoy Warhammer 40k than playing the miniatures game, but there are still affordable ways to enjoy the miniatures hobby, especially if you're already invested in it.

BTW, welcome to the BoLS forums. I really enjoyed your thoughtful response, and hope to hear more!

[Nemesis]

When my 3 lads were just little lads, back in the early '90's, we used to go to the GW store here in Edinburgh. At that time, you had to fight, (politely of course), to get in the door! A great guy named Martin was manager at that time, got really friendly with the guy. Anyhoo, the whole shop was absolutely chock a block. Piles of school satchels lying in a corner, loads of noise from the gaming tables--wonderful atmosphere. You really felt you were part of something special.

You could get a bubble pack of 3 metal orcs for £1.50 then.

I go in now, on a Saturday afternoon and there is, on average, 3 people in the shop. Now tell me there's nothing wrong with GW's pricing policy.

If things go on the way they are, that shop will be empty every day and they will end up closing it. What other shops will follow them?

[Bushido]

I see your lips moving but all I hear is "blah blah blah* you deserve to have the rich steal part of your labor.

Oh get off your cross Trotsky. Why don't you go live in a country where the biggiest worry is not weather or not some toy company is going to raise it's prices, and the real problem is weather or not you can feed your kids or have a bayonet jabbed in your back because you happened to be born on the wrong side of some fence. People like you disgust me. You don't think for yourselves, you don't really learn anything, you just parrot the words of others.

Go read your copy of adbusters over a cup of organic fairly traded 7 dollar coffee and stop whining like the spoiled child you are. You don't like the toy company's prices, stop playing with toys, or buy different toys from some other company. Your moral outrage and proposed social crusade against the injustice of not being able to buy plastic army men for the price you want is the silliest example of outrage I've ever even heard of.

[MarneusCalgar]

When my 3 lads were just little lads, back in the early '90's, we used to go to the GW store here in Edinburgh. At that time, you had to fight, (politely of course), to get in the door! A great guy named Martin was manager at that time, got really friendly with the guy. Anyhoo, the whole shop was absolutely chock a block. Piles of school satchels lying in a corner, loads of noise from the gaming tables--wonderful atmosphere. You really felt you were part of something special.

You could get a bubble pack of 3 metal orcs for £1.50 then.

I go in now, on a Saturday afternoon and there is, on average, 3 people in the shop. Now tell me there's nothing wrong with GW's pricing policy.

If things go on the way they are, that shop will be empty every day and they will end up closing it. What other shops will follow them?

Wellcome to the Internet era, my friend...

Here in Spain it´s also happening not only on miniatures´s shops, even in comic stores too, why?

Because too many people download them from Internet.

As books themselves...

[DadExtraordinaire]

When my 3 lads were just little lads, back in the early '90's, we used to go to the GW store here in Edinburgh. At that time, you had to fight, (politely of course), to get in the door! A great guy named Martin was manager at that time, got really friendly with the guy. Anyhoo, the whole shop was absolutely chock a block. Piles of school satchels lying in a corner, loads of noise from the gaming tables--wonderful atmosphere. You really felt you were part of something special.

You could get a bubble pack of 3 metal orcs for £1.50 then.

I go in now, on a Saturday afternoon and there is, on average, 3 people in the shop. Now tell me there's nothing wrong with GW's pricing policy.

If things go on the way they are, that shop will be empty every day and they will end up closing it. What other shops will follow them?

FYI Warhammer Historical has closed - all things have moved to Forgeworld - it would seem all rules booklets are no longer available.

I concur with your point. I envisage an actual reduction in store space over the next 5 years......

[ksoh75]

Wellcome to the Internet era, my friend...

Here in Spain it´s also happening not only on miniatures´s shops, even in comic stores too, why?

Because too many people download them from Internet.

As books themselves...

Print is dying out....I work in advertising for Kroger, a grocery chain. We are converting alot of stuff to the internet. Give it 5-10 more years....newspapers will be a thing of the past. Everythig is digital now. Even at the grocery store. Self Checkouts, loyalty cards you can down load coupons. Money is now exchanged through credit and debit.....

[DrLove42]

When my 3 lads were just little lads, back in the early '90's, we used to go to the GW store here in Edinburgh. At that time, you had to fight, (politely of course), to get in the door! A great guy named Martin was manager at that time, got really friendly with the guy. Anyhoo, the whole shop was absolutely chock a block. Piles of school satchels lying in a corner, loads of noise from the gaming tables--wonderful atmosphere. You really felt you were part of something special.

You could get a bubble pack of 3 metal orcs for £1.50 then.

I go in now, on a Saturday afternoon and there is, on average, 3 people in the shop. Now tell me there's nothing wrong with GW's pricing policy.

If things go on the way they are, that shop will be empty every day and they will end up closing it. What other shops will follow them?

Then your store is doing something wrong. My store isn't a big one (actualy the smallest GW I've ever been to) and theres always a minimum of 3 people in the store, even at 10am on a Tuesday morning. Sunday its always packed. I've given up trying to go to Vets night cos theres too many people you can barely get into the store, let alone get a game

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Wow, this thread is still going? Jeese these threads are like aids, you just cant get rid of them.

[Brettila]

GW have their financial reports freely availible in the investors section (http://investor.games-workshop.com/) of their website.

Plenty of proof. Just a bit more work for you than saying "Waaaah. GW are putting up prices just to make more money so I shall now cry waaaah"

I understand that costs rise, etc. However, in defense of current complaints, 16-25% increases in the costs of models IS a wee tad more than current inflation. If they had raised prices 2-3% across the board it would be much easier to swallow.

[Uncle Nutsy]

Wasn't going to, it was fun arguing with small brained people who can't grasp a larger picture than their own circumstances but now it's just pathetic.


yes, i'm small brained because I understand that it's futile to create an internet boycott because I don't like the new prices.

does the lollipop lane and the wall candy taste delicious?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

does the lollipop lane and the wall candy taste delicious?

It tastes absolutely fantastic! OMNOMNOMNOM! :D

[fuzzbuket]

i see the same thing getting repeated over and over agian:



HEY GUISE I JUST HAD A IDEUR LETs BOI COTT GW BECAUSE it COSTS MONIES


NO WAI I LIKE MODELS AND YOU NEED TO PAY MONIES FOR THEM


NO WAI

YA WAI
(rinse and repeat.)
also im guessing that the guy who started this thread is from PP lol :P

-fuzz

[eldargal]

I doubt that, a lot of the people at PP still play 40k/WFB, someone from teh company said so on a forum a while back.;)

(I know it was a joke, just saying...)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

BUT WHY SHOULD I PAY FULL PRICE FOR A PRODUCT! RAWREEFHPRHSFPOHPCVNCPIOEFJ;;FLFKLGKLDFEAAAA!!

Seriously, I don't understand why haggling exists. =/

[Wolfshade]

I'm boycotting Aston Martin based on the price of their new Vanquish

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm boycotting Aston Martin based on the price of their new Vanquish

I support this boycott, allow me to join in on your rage.

[Denzark]

I think everyone should have a big boycott of GW, sell their armies at knockdown prices on Ebay and then commit Hari-Kiri.

By 'everyone' I mean all the plebs who come out with tosh about boycotts.

Luxury unecessary product, its not cake and GW ain't the Bastille...

[Dyrnwyn]

May I suggest writing to GW? If you, and all who feel that their pricing model do hurt the hobby (economy of scale vs luxury items and all that stuff) sit down and write a hand written letter and mail it to GW (to Jervis for instance) and keep it short and polite it will send more of a message than internet rage or a boycott (they don't know why you are not buying, how could they?).

This.

This, this, THIS.

I don't play 40k or Fantasy anymore. A boycott of a product I no longer play is pointless. But when I made the decision to get out of GW systems, I sent a letter to GW and let them know that I was no longer a customer, why they lost me, and what could be done to make me want to buy again. I kept it civil. Simply not buying GW product is not going to tell GW anything except 'some stuff isn't selling.' On top of this, there isn't universal rage or upset at GW over prices. So a boycott will not be total, and won't seriously impact the company, because those upset enough to boycott are a minority, as most disgruntled customers... cease to be customers.

If you're upset, write a letter. A physical, snail-mail letter that someone will have to open and read, rather than an email that can be cleared out of a junk mail box.

@ Gendo, you can have all the smart points in the world, but if you do nothing but insult your audience, nobody will give your word any weight, and you may actually damage your side's position just by being the face of your argument. As it stands, despite being on the side of 'no longer buying GW products,' I have to agree with a lot of other people here that you aren't showing much skill at either economics or debate.

@wittdooley, I'm with Chuck777 on this. I feel I would not get the same value from a purchase now as I did when I started the game in 4th ed. 'Value' is a nebulous term which encompasses aesthetics, quality, worth of each pieces as part of my army, and how much fun I get out of each game in which I'd use a piece. I felt like the value of my purchases dropped below the prices charged two years ago. Obviously 'value' is different for everyone, but Chuck and I feel the same, surely for different reasons.

[Deadlift]

I'm boycotting Aston Martin based on the price of their new Vanquish

That actually did make me LOL

*claps* very funny

[ksoh75]

I'm boycotting wearing underware to work......Im sitting at my desk this morning already and will prolly be here until meh....8 pm tonight cuz of Memorial Day and early releases and I'm sitting here...ball sweating.....wedge going up my *** crack....these gotta go....underware is pointless.....what's the use of them besides holding up your testies cuz your hung like a rhino and keeping your junk out of sight....

THAT'S WHY THEY MAKE LONG PANTS PEOPLE.....I swear if I have to grab my crotch one more time to adjust, you might as well call me Micheal......

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

My eyes! I can never unsee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[miteyheroes]

FYI Warhammer Historical has closed - all things have moved to Forgeworld - it would seem all rules booklets are no longer available.

I concur with your point. I envisage an actual reduction in store space over the next 5 years......

Warhammer Historical never fitted well into GW. And now Rick Priestley has left and is writing rules for Warlord Games, it's no surprise it folded.

[Bean]

I'm boycotting Aston Martin based on the price of their new Vanquish

Exactly.

[Deadlift]

I'm boycotting Aston Martin based on the price of their new Vanquish


http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab3/joenortonjones/aston-martin-cygne_1544666c.jpg

But theres always something for everyone :p

[aznthecapn]

You boycott when a company is doing something foul or harmful. This is a luxury item you don't NEED. Stop buying it.
Boycotting is a juvenile reaction that serves no purpose. Write them a letter and put your money where your mouth is.

[commissar camenzuli]

And in the long run, if you boycott for too long some gw shops will go bust and that would ruin it for the people there

[Foxhound2delta]

My thing with prices sooo high, is how does a 12 year old kid get into the hobby? I didn't start this hobby until I came back from my tour in Iraq and so thankfully I had some money saved up on the side to buy what I want. Furthermore I continue to make a great income and have disposable income to spend. Yet there aren't many people, even in the military, who have the freedom that my wife and I have. Back when I was a kid there was no way in hell my parents were going to spend X amount for 40K. Here's an example: A few years ago my much younger cousin was really liking the look of 40K. So I gave him my copy of the BA Codex and a five man SM tactical squad hoping it would jump start him into the hobby. Then when I visited for holidays, we turned the kitchen table into a war zone. Afterwards he was sold!! Yet when I took My Aunt down to the local store to get my cousin some stuff for Christmas, she couldn't believe the cost of the models and rule books. Now my Aunt is among the higher tax brackets in the US and she and her husband make a great deal of money, yet to hear her complain about the price is something else. Afterwards my cousin moved on and never got into the hobby.

For me, when I go to gaming stores I see people playing and buying who are barley making it (financially) and not to sound shallow but who are wearing second hand clothes. I really don't know how they do it or do it especially after this next big increase. Even with my steady paycheck I'm not even looking forward what the 6th ed rule book will and I'm seriously considering checking out Dropzone Commander. The biggest problem that I see with the prices increases is that this is only going to encourage other people to continue making knock off models and even worse fake GW/FW casts. To be perfectly honest, I just bought a Contemptor and enough GK bits to make a ton of paladins from an infamous website for next to nothing!! to change and get back on subject here's the thing, back in 2008 the national average of gas was at over $4 a gallon. Now flash forward and the national average right now is a little over $3.60 a gallon. So my thing is, how does a toy soldier company (as describe in their company mission statement) continue to up prices when even the price of oil per barrel has gone down some? If anything the plastic models that GW makes have know become more valuable then the oil based products that is used to make them.

Going back to the main issue though, is how does a kid get into this hobby? Especially when he/she doesn't have a job and is expectant of their parents to buy these way overpriced models. These are toys after all. I don't know maybe I speaking from the standpoint of an American and table top wargaming must be the happening thing in the UK but growing up I never even heard of table top wargaming and instead had a great time playing with 3 1/2 inch GI Joes. So what is GW doing to to ge kids into this hobby?

[Uncle Nutsy]

A boycott is used to punish a company for doing something unethical, illegal, or socially objectionable.

GW sells HOBBY materials. HOBBY. Trying to punish GW for a perceived slight against your predetermined notions is corrupting what a boycott is intended for.


Disagree? you're wrong. why? because you need to understand you are not entitled to plastic toys.

[wittdooley]

But then, parents seem to have no problem dropping $60+ for a video game every month... I mean, it's all about perspective I guess.

Also..Gas in 2008 was not cheaper than it is now. I'd have to look at a trend chart, but I'm pretty sure the price per gallon has ballooned to nearly 200% of the 2008 cost.

It is an expensive hobby. But if people do the hobby as it was intended (buy a box, build it, paint it, add more) I think it's a reasonable hobby that gives you a lot of hours of fulfillment. Somehow we've gotten to the place where people are playing with Grey Hordes and have to buy EVERY MODEL NOW!!!!1

Thanks for serving, by the way. I have the utmost respect for all of our servicemembers, and I'm glad you made it back and can now play with soldiers instead of being in harms way yourself. God bless you.

[Kawauso]

But then, parents seem to have no problem dropping $60+ for a video game every month... I mean, it's all about perspective I guess.


This pretty much sums it up, I think.

I mean, when I have a steady income, I will spend quite a bit on recreational goods and activities over the course of a year. When I was playing Magic: The Gathering really regularly, I'd typically get at least a box or two of every set that released over the course of a year. That's at around $100-$120 a box with 4 expansions per year. That's a lot of money, and those boxes weren't the only part of the hobby I purchased in a typical year either.

But I didn't have to spend that money that way and I could have enjoyed the game just as much for a lot less.

With 40k getting more expensive again, that's all that's really going to happen. I'll be buying less, but that's alright by me, really. It actually gives me incentive to get units painted before making purchases, and I'll probably stop buying 'in bulk' so often...which kind of seems like a good thing, really. I've got like 9000 points or more in some of my armies and way too much of that is unpainted.

Not that I'm in favour of my toy soldiers costing more. But I have some perspective on the matter.

[templarboy]

Has anyone priced plastic scale models lately? I would say that GW is on par or below most of the really good 1/32 scale models out there. I don't like the price increases but I do have some perspective....and a steady job. I can afford my hobby. I will start buying more online though. All about choices....

[Foxhound2delta]

But then, parents seem to have no problem dropping $60+ for a video game every month... I mean, it's all about perspective I guess.

Also..Gas in 2008 was not cheaper than it is now. I'd have to look at a trend chart, but I'm pretty sure the price per gallon has ballooned to nearly 200% of the 2008 cost.

It is an expensive hobby. But if people do the hobby as it was intended (buy a box, build it, paint it, add more) I think it's a reasonable hobby that gives you a lot of hours of fulfillment. Somehow we've gotten to the place where people are playing with Grey Hordes and have to buy EVERY MODEL NOW!!!!1

Thanks for serving, by the way. I have the utmost respect for all of our servicemembers, and I'm glad you made it back and can now play with soldiers instead of being in harms way yourself. God bless you.

I actually pulled my gas statistic from gasbuddy.com. What I quoted was the national average across the nation in 2008 at it's highest. However I remember before leaving for Iraq that gas was getting to be $5 a gallon and that was in Fort Riley, Kansas. Gas hasn't ballooned 200% since then either as the price of oil per barrel has gone and back up several times over the last 4 years but it did just go back down right before this weekend and that is being reflected in the prices at the pump right now. For that stat you'll just have watch Fox Business News.

You make a good point about video games though but that's just it thought. I truly think kids would rather play a violent video game (or non violent but there aren't a lot of those these days) than roll dice and have to imagine an ork being vaporized by a lascannon. Plus this just seems a hobby that almost requires at least one receptive parent to be involved in it. With video games it 's just "here's your game, don't bother me while I play my own".

You are also correct in that people want to buy everything all at once rather than build and paint one unit at a time. But on the other hand, GW wants us to continue buying. Just look at the soon to be released flyers! 2 of which are intended for codexs over 4 years old.

All I'm saying is that these are toys and toys for children and we as adults are so pissed about the price increase that we are over looking what is a kids game. Could you imagine paying $100 or more for monopoly or risk or uno? Sure those are some pretty cheap games but even video games haven't increased in price as bad as GW has. I remember PS games being $40 new and that was before 2000. Now we're in 2012 and games are $60. So about a $20 increase over the span of 12 years. GW prices on the other hand has increased well quite a bit. Here's a personal example for me: When I came back form Iraq, I went to the local game store with the intent to buy a Land Raider Crusader. I really liked the look of them and thought they were cool as hell. I went buy it and I think it was something like $50 then. Now fast forward to the present and Land Raiders are now going to be $78. That's $28 more now then it was 4 years ago. It seriously cannot be costing GW that much money to manufacturer that model. Yet people will pay for them because they "gotta have it".

I really think that boycotting isn't the right answer but maybe store owners should say something because they are the ones out there making a sale. They are the ones who's ***** our on the line hoping to break even in some cases. Making the terrain and gaming boards and spending there time in a store where the prices are consistently going up every year. Hell, GW price is right behind that of FW with the Land Raider Achilles being $97 and GW's LR now at $78. Thats only and $19 difference! When GW is nearly on par with FW in price that should show people that something just isn't right.

[SilkySkullShell]

My thing with prices sooo high, is how does a 12 year old kid get into the hobby?
Going back to the main issue though, is how does a kid get into this hobby? Especially when he/she doesn't have a job and is expectant of their parents to buy these way overpriced models. These are toys after all. I don't know maybe I speaking from the standpoint of an American and table top wargaming must be the happening thing in the UK but growing up I never even heard of table top wargaming and instead had a great time playing with 3 1/2 inch GI Joes. So what is GW doing to to ge kids into this hobby?
GW must want, as a company, to win the hearts and minds. It isn't happening in the places I have been going to recently 'kids' without cash are playing card based games, token games, and proxy whatever for whatevre. In this environment I don't see young people really committing to and therefore investining in 40K. The Asian economies are huge markets too(not just Japan). In my opinion GW needs to maintain cheap options in their range such as Black Reach etc to attract young players. More than just a single box kids can splitit and play for the summer/winter holidays etc. Then after they are into it they can then expand into the more expensive model ranges. Moreover, it is a game that happens in the minds / psyches of players. Therefore it is important to not only make up profits from targetting the' middle class' or even 'rich' player who is possibly middle age o ryoung and well emplyed with disposable income. A long term increase in sales and growing player base can be encouraged and maintained, in part, by allowing access to a cheapish option. I don't mean ebay. I mean a new box set inteh Xmass stocking type product that even us established gamers can drop on people and moms and dads alike are able to go to the glitzy GW site and say hay I can affor that. Even some people I work with that will play with my toys say to me OH my gosh how do you afford all this stuff, it is so expensive! When I was younger living in Australia the prices kept me out of the hobby for a decade, so I played 1/72 cheap stuff. Now I'm one of the lucky ones. All that said - It is a really good point that cheap starter set packages (more than 2 factions) such as the ork v marines / nyds v guard / necron v wolves or what ever that have little fluff books to encourage interest a rules set and some cool models with a special character, so the player can think that cool one there that is me. Remember kids have endless imagination for playing games with limited financial resources. GW think community! That is the answer just think community and secure it as one for young and old. Get ya smarts out and provide a range with a price range for all.

It seems that they saw an incerease in FW popularity and a(relative decreas in the amount growth) in GW and have gone that route. all ba.d, but I would encourage a little imagination in marketting right now. Now is the time GW. Conceptualise the future of the hobby include the young or they will just play the video games only.

[wittdooley]

I actually pulled my gas statistic from gasbuddy.com. What I quoted was the national average across the nation in 2008 at it's highest. However I remember before leaving for Iraq that gas was getting to be $5 a gallon and that was in Fort Riley, Kansas. Gas hasn't ballooned 200% since then either as the price of oil per barrel has gone and back up several times over the last 4 years but it did just go back down right before this weekend and that is being reflected in the prices at the pump right now. For that stat you'll just have watch Fox Business News.

.

Holy smack my ***. You're right. Was it really that high at the end of 2008? And then it nose dived to under 1.60 / gal in Cincy. From jan 2008 were looking at a 230% increase. Wonder if it'll go down Again after the election.

[SilkySkullShell]

Oh and I am no to a boycott. Pro-active participation, letter writing, lobbying GW and assistance to things you love is the way to encourage moves in the right direction. FW is a huge success! GW is amodle of past huge success. Black Library is a Huge Success. The transformations in the company are obviously ongoing and huge I don't understand what you think a boycott might achieve perhaps you could elaborate on your idea to clarify the course of action so we can better understand.

[juliusb]

Calling for a boycott of a luxury item is redundant. I'm not going to stop buying these great models because you can't afford it and everyone gets to make up their own mind; it's called a market. I mean, are you going to call for boycotts of Ferrari, Tiffany's etc. because they're above your range?

I'm just glad that GW has a insane addiction to quality and I'm willing to pay for it. I always hear about WarmaDustHordesFlames form GW haters but as soon as I check out the models I'm just not impressed. I think there's room for another mainstream 'budget' tabletop game and I think it would be great for GW to have a serious threat. But whoever is making the best minis is getting my dollars.

If this was food or medical care or a necessity that a monopoly was pricing large portions of the people out of; I'd be with you in calling to bring down costs.