Flyer pictures (big pictures)

[eldargal]

Stayed up to 3am for this:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141024&d=1337736800
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141025&d=1337736816
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141027&d=1337737028
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141026&d=1337736830

[Dalleron]

WoW.....Ewwww.

SM thingy looks terrible, in my eyes. It just doesn't look right.

The Ork one. Slightly less eww. Looks orky which is a plus.

Necron one. Looks good. I'd buy one if I played 'Crons.

[Kawauso]

Yesss.

Now I just need to know if the Stormtalon is for Codex: SM only or if other chapters can take it...

[Colonel Kreitz]

Soooo...ugly...

Ugggghhhhh...why is the Storm Talon so hideous? It's like they took everything bad about the Storm Raven and made it worse. It's atrocious...

I like the Bomba, though. The Necron stuff is okay, but I'd really prefer a closed cockpit myself...

[robrodgers46]

Ork Plane: Amazing. I might get one or two, and I don't even play Orks. Where the Greenskins dig up an f-86?

Necron: No comment, I really could less about Necrons. Just not an army that appeals to me.

Storm Talon: Really, that is the best they could do? It's odd looking, even for the whole SM aircraft aesthetic that I think is strange. Plus, at least from these pictures, only Codex Marines get it? How lame is that?

So, 1 for 2, with an abstention on the Meh-Crons.

Just my 2 cents

r

[Kawauso]

Eh, I get why people don't like the Stormtalon, but I love it.

Looks a -bit- short in the tail, but that's alright. My biggest gripe about its looks actually are the landing gear on the chin-mount...I'll probably leave those off when I assemble one.

Damn. If we can have pics of the WD photos, where're the rules?
Because, you know, I need to figure out if this is Fast Attack or Heavy Support and what the costs are and which SM books get it. So I can plan lists with it. Right now. ;)

[eldargal]

I have to admit I really like the Stormtalon, I think it looks adorable. Going to get at least one for my Astral Kittens.

The Necron flyer I don't really care about much, I think it looks like a suitably impressive kit but the Necron aesthetic doesn't inspire me in general.

The Ork flyers are an ven more impressive kit, a 3 for one and each one looks different enough even if it is subtle. I'm not very fond of the Ork aesthetic either though so I won't be getting any.

[Archon Charybdis]

It might be a perspective issue too, the Stormtalons in the background don't look nearly as awkward.

[Shadoq]

I am sensing an extension kit from CHS in that SM flyer's future...
Looks like something out of GI Joe as is.

[Kawauso]

I agree that the Ork kit is the most impressive of the bunch. It looks great, and it's a 3-in-1.

It's one of those models that tempts me to start Orks. Every time I get tempted, though, I cringe at the thought of painting another horde army (it would have to be at least partly horde), and painting...I can't imagine how long it would take to paint an Ork army to make it look suitable beat-up, disheveled and ramshackle.

At least the fact that I have no money to speak of will hold me back for a while.

[Brandoncbaker]

I'm thinking the storm talon will be a perfect,fluffy addition to my White Scars

[DrBored]

The Ork fliers look... orky. Fewer plates riveted on than I expected, but then again they *do* have to obey at least a FEW laws of physics. I like the assortment of bombs on the Burna Bomber the most. I also like the turret on top of the Burna Bomber, really just looks right.

The Necron flyer is missing one key thing... a canopy. Even a robo skeleton would do well to have a dome of bulletproof glass to protect against high-velocity bugs getting in his face.

I love the look of the Stormtalon. It's a HUGE improvement over the Stormraven flying refridgerator. The angles are nice, the engines are right, the guns are where they should be, and the tail fin makes sense. Everything just looks really nice on that vehicle. I just don't like the color scheme :P I'll be excited to see how people paint those up or convert them.

Also, I can't help but have a nice big chuckle. If the Stormtalon is strictly a Codex: Space Marines vehicle... well, I'll be happy. I've had too many people at my FLGS raving about how they'd fill their army up with Stormtalons in their BA and BT and DA and SW and GK (and one IG guy was convinced he could take it too) armies. It was getting pretty annoying. In my opinion, Codex: Space Marines is the only one that should get it. The other Codices have enough of their own unique crud.

I was, however, hoping for a snippet on how to add one to a Codex: Chaos Space Marines army, but with that Codex coming up soon, it doesn't surprise me that there wouldn't be...

[Alrik_40000]

Because, you know, I need to figure out if this is Fast Attack or Heavy Support and what the costs are and which SM books get it. So I can plan lists with it. Right now. ;)


Check the icon on the intake vent on the roof... It's fast attack. Additionally, it's only for Space Marines.

[Chronowraith]

The stormtalon reminds me of the Raptors from Battlestar Galactica with weapon pods. Personally, I like it.

Necron flyer fits the picture and the aesthetic but still looks like a batarang to me.

Ork fighter looks spiffy but I don't play my Orks enough to justify the cost. Also waiting until 6th to see how that affects everything before I buy anything new for 40k.

[AwesomeWolf]

Hrm, after seeing how...not pretty...the Stormtalon is, I'm kinda glad that its looking like it is vanilla Marines only. The Wolfravens will continue to fly (in opponent's OK, friendly only games ;) )

[robrodgers46]

Also, I can't help but have a nice big chuckle. If the Stormtalon is strictly a Codex: Space Marines vehicle... well, I'll be happy. I've had too many people at my FLGS raving about how they'd fill their army up with Stormtalons in their BA and BT and DA and SW and GK (and one IG guy was convinced he could take it too) armies. It was getting pretty annoying. In my opinion, Codex: Space Marines is the only one that should get it. The other Codices have enough of their own unique crud.

I was, however, hoping for a snippet on how to add one to a Codex: Chaos Space Marines army, but with that Codex coming up soon, it doesn't surprise me that there wouldn't be...

So, you are happy that BA, BT, DA, SW, GK don't get it, but you think Chaos should? Because Chaos has no unique crud I guess. Schadenfreude much?

Also, which unique vehicle do Space Wolves have? Oh, yeah, they get to ride wolves, perfect justification for no airplane.

r

[DrBored]

So, you are happy that BA, BT, DA, SW, GK don't get it, but you think Chaos should? Because Chaos has no unique crud I guess. Schadenfreude much?

Also, which unique vehicle do Space Wolves have? Oh, yeah, they get to ride wolves, perfect justification for no airplane.

r

Yup! But I understand if they don't, since Chaos will be getting a new Codex :D

http://rlv.zcache.com/deal_with_it_retro_poster-re682f4cbdd384092b99f0748ea15e001_ztd_400.jpg

[Chuck777]

The Talons look... Terrible.

They're like Chibi Planes. They do not fit the Space Marine Ascetic in the least.

[daboarder]

WOW

I think I've seen more impressive looking things in the bowl. Glad My BA's run around with the Stormraven instead.

[eldargal]

Squat, block and ngular all fit the SM flyer aesthetic perfectly. Have you not seen the Thunderhawk? These are like chibi thunderhawks.:p

The Talons look... Terrible.

They're like Chibi Planes. They do not fit the Space Marine Ascetic in the least.

[DrBored]

The Talons look... Terrible.

They're like Chibi Planes. They do not fit the Space Marine Ascetic in the least.

They're not planes. They're gunships. More akin to helicopters than anything. Of course they're going to look snub and adorable. That's what I love about them.

[AwesomeWolf]

Squat, block and ngular all fit the SM flyer aesthetic perfectly. Have you not seen the Thunderhawk? These are like chibi thunderhawks.:p

That's kinda the problem. While the Stormraven got nicknamed the "chibi thunderhawk", it really was just more a scaled down version of the same aesthetic (and I lurve me the SR). The Talon is, well, actually chibi. Its over all shapes are too curved and bulbous...and sweet Eris, that chin turret.

[Bigred]

My problem is that somewhere the design studio has gone off the rails in the grimdark aesthetic.

When you look at the Land Raider, Chimera, Rhino, or even Thunderhawk, there is this sense of scale and design that holds them together with the rugged Imperium they serve.

Starting with the Stormraven and the Stormtalon, every one is becoming less a rugged combat vehicle that belongs in the dark millennium and more a toylike cartoon of what the actual vehicle should have been.

This newest Marine flyer makes me think of this: (see attachment).

Games Workshop has always said the target customer for 40k is teenage boys, now they are outright making toys for them.

Now that Ork flyer is ACE!!!

[daboarder]

Squat, block and ngular all fit the SM flyer aesthetic perfectly. Have you not seen the Thunderhawk? These are like chibi thunderhawks.:p

I think its the chibi part that's throwing them off though. the thunderhawk and raven could both conceivably fly given enough brute force....this thing however looks llike it would summers-ult all the way to the battlefield.

Perhaps better angles would help. the Ork and Necron models look hot though.

[Gir]

I think its the chibi part that's throwing them off though. the thunderhawk and raven could both conceivably fly given enough brute force....this thing however looks llike it would summers-ult all the way to the battlefield.

This looks like the only one that would fly. The SR is a grey area, and the Thunderhawk has no chance.

[daboarder]

Put enough thrust behind it and the thunderhawk would fly.....or orbit at really really low altitude I guess

[Kawauso]

Games Workshop has always said the target customer for 40k is teenage boys, now they are outright making toys for them.


Wait, you mean I haven't been playing with toy soldiers this whole time? :confused:

I don't think this in any way contradicts the 'grimdark' aesthetic...I'm not sure what about the Rhino chassis, specifically, is grimdark, anyway.

But to each their own. I love the new gunship, and can't wait to get my paws on a couple. :3

[olberon]

stormtalon: i feel a little conversion project comming up..... the tail is in my opinion way to short (needs at least to be the length of the entire craft) and the landing gear is oddly placed. overall i feel like its getting a fiat multipla from your boss
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Fiat_Multipla_silver_front.JPG/250px-Fiat_Multipla_silver_front.JPG you either love it or ... well hate it :P

ork bomber: i already like it, almost makes me going orky for a while

necron thingy: yeah what could i say about it ..... its necron!

[bobrunnicles]

I like them all....this could be bad....I'd prefer to be able to use the Stormtalon with my current Space Wolves project but if I can't I guess I'll use it with my existing Imperial Fists. Necrons I want at least two, and as for the Orks - I don't even play them and I want a Burna-Bommer :) That little ball turret behind the cockpit puts me in mind of the old Dauntless from WWII. Gotta have one!

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

The Bommas and the Scythes are amazing, although a cockpit-cover option for the Scythes would've been nice.

The Talon is a monument to all of humanity's sins. A plastic Land Speeder Tempest squadron could've pulled it off with a lot more grace.

[Dalleron]

I find with this stormtalon it is tempting to make into some sort of helicopter. Lengthen the tail end, lose the fins on the back. I can't imagine it would take that much effort.

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Must admit... I hate the Storm Raven... But I really quite like the Storm Talon. Has that ugly Apache feel that I love!

[ElectricPaladin]

No Tau flyer :-(?

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

If Tau rumours are correct in claiming it'll be out within a year, then I guess that'd explain it :S

[fuzzbuket]

the ork plane needs stretched IMHO it looks a little stubby
the marine plane needs larger engines,or helicopter blades (goes off to local hoby store to buy a pair of cheap revel helicopters)
and just like ninjabread said: the necron plane is a croissant (and i feel it needs a integrated pilot (think classic warlord pilots) or a closed canopy...

[Emerald Rose Widow]

The Necron flyer is missing one key thing... a canopy. Even a robo skeleton would do well to have a dome of bulletproof glass to protect against high-velocity bugs getting in his face.

Why would the necron need a canopy, they dont have biological eyes, and use different electronic means of seeing things, a canopy would be unnecessary so why would they waste the materials.

[Chuck777]

Squat, block and ngular all fit the SM flyer aesthetic perfectly. Have you not seen the Thunderhawk? These are like chibi thunderhawks.:p

I agree they look like Chibi Thunderhawks - which would be great if we were playing 40k SD (Super Deformed). But we aren't. I want grim dark not Barbie's jet!

[eldargal]

One thing I'd be tempted to do if I had a Necron army would be to make a canopy out of plasticard, slot it in there and use milliput or something to make the join as unobtrusive as possible to cover the cockpit completely. Give it a very alien look.

I just noticed the Ork pilot on the dakka-jet seems to wearing a scarf. I'm so tempted to make a flyer themed Ork army themed on a WWII British squad.

[daboarder]

One thing I'd be tempted to do if I had a Necron army would be to make a canopy out of plasticard, slot it in there and use milliput or something to make the join as unobtrusive as possible to cover the cockpit completely. Give it a very alien look.

I just noticed the Ork pilot on the dakka-jet seems to wearing a scarf. I'm so tempted to make a flyer themed Ork army themed on a WWII British squad.

Nice Ideas eldargirl, easily doable with a thin bit of plasticard and a hair drier, go for that polished metal look

Perhaps just filling the whole section with greenstuff? afterall if the aim is for an opaque finish the detail inside is irrelevant.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh eldargal, you don't half know how to make a guy happy. Hahahaha! :D

Can't wait to buy some Scythes. >_<

[eldargal]

I didn't do a good job of explaining what I meant, sorry. I'd put a recessed bit of plasticard in to cover the hole, coat it with greenstuff, smooth it as much as possible then wehen cured sand it back to it would be as seamless as possible. It saves wasting huge amounts of greenstuff filling the whole cavity in.

[Deadlift]

I like the Storm Talon, I love the squat bulky aggressive look it. It reminds me of a bulldog. I love bulldogs. I will be getting one or two. It would be nice to know where it fits into the FOC. I am hoping for FA.
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab3/joenortonjones/english_bulldog_1.jpg

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I like the Storm Talon, I love the squat bulky aggressive look it. It reminds me of a bulldog. I love bulldogs. I will be getting one or two. It would be nice to know where it fits into the FOC. I am hoping for FA.

By the looks of the hull it's going to be Fast Attack.

[The Madman]

The Necron flyer is missing one key thing... a canopy. Even a robo skeleton would do well to have a dome of bulletproof glass to protect against high-velocity bugs getting in his face.

"As Necrons' robotic bodies are immune to the hazards of interplantary space, traditional pressure-sealed and canopied craft were unnecessary from the very outset." - Necron Codex Page 43

Necron see no need for canopies as it is both a small target to hit and a waste of resources that could be used for other means. in addtion none of the necron vehicles have a enclosed area for the driver so to have a canopy on the Doom/Night Scythe would be against the aesthetics of Necron vehicles.

OT: I like the Doom/Night Scythe a lot, the Ork plane is pretty awesome with its 3-in-1 kit and again the Space Marine's flyer looks bad. i just don't feel like giving space marine flyers other then the thunderhawk fits them. don't know why, but it just don't feel right.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Just saw an earlier post about Ork Sqwadronz, I suggest the Waaaghwaffe! Grotwaffe! Some variation of the Luftwaffe!

[Wolfshade]

I like the look of the SM and Ork ones.
I agree with Eldargirl that the talon looks quite cute ::squeee:: though not sure it is the correct aesthetic to go for
but as for the Necron ones like Ninjabread commented, it looks like a flying croissant
http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/2012/05/11/the-wahankh-croissant/

[docbungle]

Like the Ork stuff (who wouldnt) and the necron is as expected but also nice.

The Talon HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA <cough> sorry about that. oh dear!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I like the look of the SM and Ork ones.
I agree with Eldargirl that the talon looks quite cute ::squeee:: though not sure it is the correct aesthetic to go for
but as for the Necron ones like Ninjabread commented, it looks like a flying croissant
http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/2012/05/11/the-wahankh-croissant/

HAHAHAHAHA! That's awesome!

Did no one think of this?? JAFFA KRII (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gCCLfa9SYtM/S7GPacJqlJI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/-lH8NPegwzU/s1600/QMSG1001Blg.jpg)

[SotonShades]

Damn it. Still don't like the Stormtalon. I think it's the bulky Assault cannon turret that ruins it for me. Still my chapter, the Brotherhood of Fire, are supposed to be siege specialists (successors of the Imperial Fists) so it wouldn't be out of place for them not to have too many of these in their arsenal.

Necron flyers are... well everything I expected them to be. can't complain, not overly enthused though. The front engine intakes almost look a little too eldar-y for me, but I think it just about works.

The Orks? I've all ready converted 2 from various Airfix/Revell kits. Sign me up for 3 or 4 more! I think they look awesome! Reqally looking forward to getting my hands on them. The KoptaForce need a little speed. Well, a little more!

[olberon]

http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/2012/05/...nkh-croissant/

hahaha that just made my day!!!!!

as for the talon: dont suppose any one have pictures from the side of the craft (conversion project !!!!)

as for the waffe theme id go grotwaffe tho no swastika's but nice orky glyph;s

[Lord Tothe]

Ork and Space Marine flyers look awesome. I'm just not a fan of the official GW Necron flyer design. I'd prefer to use GW bits to mod a Cylon Raider as suggested here if I were building a necron army: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/03/40k-on-budget-cheapass-necrons.html

[DrLove42]

Damn they're all very nice. Look forward to seeing what they manage for any of my armies...

[MarneusCalgar]

LOVE EM!!!

I will pick at least 2 Stormtalons

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm going to make a chapter that revolve around using all Storm variant airships.

The Iron Falcons!

[JonnyRoxtar]

Is the £45 price confirmed for these things?

If so I will be giving them a miss.

Just noticed the price in the june release thread was in $ not £. So I might get some after all.

[eldargal]

God no, they are only 45USD, not sure what that puts them in pounds, around thirty I suppose.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah, I'd say 30-35 quid. Retail seems about average for that kind of kit at release.

EDIT: I just realised, the Stormtalon is basically an Apache gunship, looks almost identical.

[Psychosplodge]

Initial impression isn't good, looks too "orky" though i'll wait till I see one properly, if they look better in the flesh I might add a couple cause my marines haven't had any new things in years, or I might just get the forgeworld flyer...

The ork bomber looks cool though, almost fancy getting one just because lol

[Bluesfart]

My biggest complaint about the stormtalon is that it doesn't match the blocky aesthetic that I am used to with Marine Vehicles (I thought this had something to do with the STC). Sure it doesn't look like it belongs to any other race in particular, but it doesn't seem like the 40k universe as much.

I think the comment about it looking cute is accurate, but that reduces its appeal to me.

[Psychosplodge]

EDIT: I just realised, the Stormtalon is basically an Apache gunship, looks almost identical.

I thought it looked like the gunship from "G-Police" handed to a mekanik...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I thought it looked like the gunship from "G-Police" handed to a mekanik...

Having just looked at it, yeah, I'd go with that.

[Sonikgav]

I find myself tempted to strap a set of Sentinel Legs to the underside of the Talon as a Dreadnaught replacement for a fast/scouty chapter like White Scars or RavenGuard.

Though this may leave it looking alot like a very aggressive Blue Midget from Red Dwarf.

Necrons are a guaranteed purchase for me. I need 2 Nightscythes to finish my list and I love the fact they've kept them relatively flat. Much easier to transport.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I need 2 Nightscythes to finish my list and I love the fact they've kept them relatively flat. Much easier to transport.

Also, much easier to use as makeshift shurikens. xD

[Sonikgav]

Also, much easier to use as makeshift shurikens. xD
Good job im not a poor loser lol

[Vlad78]

I find myself tempted to strap a set of Sentinel Legs to the underside of the Talon as a Dreadnaught replacement for a fast/scouty chapter like White Scars or RavenGuard.

Though this may leave it looking alot like a very aggressive Blue Midget from Red Dwarf.

Necrons are a guaranteed purchase for me. I need 2 Nightscythes to finish my list and I love the fact they've kept them relatively flat. Much easier to transport.

I would look like a zentran armor from the Macross saga.

Otherwise, the Talon looks like a cheap toy. meh

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Providing that it's Fast Attack, I want to have an army with this: 1 Stormeagle Assault Dropship, 2 Stormtalon Gunships, 3 Stormraven Gunships.

Hahaha! *cue Flight of the Valkyries*

[dwez]

Damn it. Still don't like the Stormtalon. I think it's the bulky Assault cannon turret that ruins it for me.

That's my reservation, it's just too big, think about the Land Speeder Assault Cannons - it doesn't need a massive box attached to the back of it. If I get one I'll probably replace it with the Ravenwing Assault Cannons or I'm sur ethe Razorback ones would fit better. Of course it may look very different in reality...

[BigGrim]

I think one reason it looks so big is that the front landing legs are part of the weapons housing. If I get them for Wolves (and I see no reason we wouldn't) I could see myself using one or two.

[Sonikgav]

I think one reason it looks so big is that the front landing legs are part of the weapons housing. If I get them for Wolves (and I see no reason we wouldn't) I could see myself using one or two.

I can see the Space Wolves not getting this. Its in the background that given a choice they dont like to fly not to mention the Wolves have plenty of Heavy firepower atm. Don't get me wrong, im not a Space Wolf hater, they're the army that got me into the game but its getting silly now with all the different Marine armies just expecting everything new that comes out for one, being 'obviously' available for the rest of them.

[Defenestratus]

Love the Ork and the Necron ones.

The Storm Talon's donkey guns are just too big and too "out there" for me to like. And I agree with BigRed about the lack of asthetic... the SR grew on me after a while but these... I donno... There's nothing about them that I can like.

Good thing I play BA and can't take them anyways :P

[Brakkart]

Yeah I'm gonna have to get a couple of those Storm Talon's I think. Twin-linked assault cannons and heavy bolters = death to horde armies, and quite a few of my friends armies are horde based. Plus it looks like the GI Joe Skyhawk and I'm a huge GI Joe fan, so it must be mine!

[Sonikgav]

Yeah I'm gonna have to get a couple of those Storm Talon's I think. Twin-linked assault cannons and heavy bolters = death to horde armies, and quite a few of my friends armies are horde based. Plus it looks like the GI Joe Skyhawk and I'm a huge GI Joe fan, so it must be mine!

I think I prefer the Assault Cannon/Typhoon Launcher variant. Turns it into a Light Vehicle/Walker Hunter but still capable of anti infantry. A friend used to run a LandSpeeder Tempest which wasn't too far off this with pretty good results.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'd run it like that. I'm very interested in the points value of this.

[Defenestratus]

I'd run it like that. I'm very interested in the points value of this.

130 points base with the Donkeyguns and HB's.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Is it? That's very good to know. :D

[Sonikgav]

130 points base with the Donkeyguns and HB's.

Hmm, comparable price point to a Dreadnaught, Similar if not superior weapon loadout and has the Speed aspect to make up for lack of combat ability. This things starting to sound tempting.

What's the armor values?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I imagine 12 12 12, like the rest of them, or 11 11 11, because it's smaller.

[eldargal]

AV11 I believe, form the BoW write up.

[Hightower]

http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/84/skyhawk/skyhawk_box.shtml

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

AV11 I believe, form the BoW write up.

Yey! My Night Scythe doesn't feel so awful now!
I can't wait to paint the Stormtalon in the colours of the Storm Wardens.

I imagine that you aren't pleased with ANOTHER SM release, eldargal?

[Deadlift]

Space Marine Fliers:
Storm Talon Gunship - 130 points
BS 4
11/11/11
Supersonic
Aerial Assault
Ceramine Plating
Escort Craft - Attach the Storm Talon to a unit in reserves to deep strike, and it automatically arrives from reserve 6" away from the deep striking unit
---Specific caveat banning you from attaching the Stormtalon to another Stormtalon in reserve
Special rule where it can hover in place for a turn to gain BS 5
--No Transport Capacity--
--No Melta weapons or flamers--
Twin-linked heavy bolters, can upgrade to twin-linked Lascannon
Twin-linked assault cannon
Potential upgrade to add Typhoon missiles
Skyhammer Missiles S7 AP 4

Via Kaika87

[eldargal]

Meh, two xenos races got kits too so that makes a refreshing change. More xenos flyers coming later in the year too (anywhere from 1-6 months:rolleyes:).

This amuses me somewhat:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141063&d=1337777737

[Brakkart]

http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/84/skyhawk/skyhawk_box.shtml

yeah, pretty nifty vehicle. I reckon at least one of the GW sculptors must be a GI Joe fan as not only does the Storm Talon bear a remarkable resemblance to the Skyhawk, but that top turret on the Ork Bomba immediately made me think of the Cobra Rattler:

http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/84/rattler/rattler_iso.jpg

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Oh yeah! I forgot about that Deep Striking thing.
That'd be very amusing with the BA codex and DSing Land Raiders!


EDIT: Also, eldargal, I can't see that picture. Seems that work has blocked it!

[eldargal]

'cept Blood Angels won't be able to take the Stormtalon. Only Codex: SM gets it.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

'cept Blood Angels won't be able to take the Stormtalon. Only Codex: SM gets it.

Balls. My Storm Wardens use Codex: Blood Angels sometimes...

[Psychosplodge]

Meh, two xenos races got kits too so that makes a refreshing change. More xenos flyers coming later in the year too (anywhere from 1-6 months:rolleyes:).

This amuses me somewhat:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141063&d=1337777737

It's not explosive lemons though is it? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=g8ufRnf2Exc);)

[Deadlift]

'cept Blood Angels won't be able to take the Stormtalon. Only Codex: SM gets it.

Not DA or Wolves then ?

That seems a bit harsh.

[Brakkart]

Not DA or Wolves then ?

That seems a bit harsh.

Course you say that now, but if DA's end up getting merged back into the basic Codex: Space Marines (which has been speculated on a fair bit) then they will get it after all, as it would fit right in with their Ravenwing.

[Sonikgav]

Balls. My Storm Wardens use Codex: Blood Angels sometimes...

Ah so you're one of 'those' players lol.

I think its good that anything Marine doesnt automatically get handed out to 5/6 different books. Gives it a bit more individuality and stops people making 1 army and switching which book it plays from every 5 min.

It sounds like a nice surprise for a drop pod assault list however at only AV11 im starting to wonder. For 20 points more you could just have a Squadron of 3 Speeders.

[aosol]

The Storm Talon looks like a it was built out of legos. GW spents 100,000 dollars to create 1 molding cast, this is the possibly the worst looking miniature I've seen in years. Much worst that the dull faced turtle Skorne battle engine and Kingdom Death Wet Nurse.

The Ork Flyer is moderate at best. Paint jobs are nicely done.

The Necron flyer is the best conceived model. Thankfully enough, the designs is keeps pushing away from the Forge World tomb stalker.

[Kawauso]

Thankfully enough, the designs is keeps pushing away from the Forge World tomb stalker.

*looks to his FW Tomb Stalker, then to pics of the new Spyders/Wraiths/Triarch Stalker, then back at the Stalker again*

Wat.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ah so you're one of 'those' players lol.

Not sure if I should take offence to that or not.

As I play a canon army that has NO guaranteed primogenitor and varying tactics that don't really fit any given codex I feel that I'm free to play them as I wish.

[darthken]

pity there wasn't a voidraven bomber in the mix. oh well lots of lovely big new models for my dark lances to shoot at

[Sonikgav]

Not sure if I should take offence to that or not.

As I play a canon army that has NO guaranteed primogenitor and varying tactics that don't really fit any given codex I feel that I'm free to play them as I wish.

No offence intended.

Its just my local scene is filled with people that play with the same models every week but change which book they use, seemingly at random. Getting sick of playing against DarkSpaceAngel ChaosKnights marine lists. Its as valid as someone playing Tau as Guard or Orks as Tyranids if it suits them.

End of the day its Proxy and if you say your army has no set style or tactic then im guessing they just become Blood Angels when you fancy doing a bit of deepstriking? Again no offence but to use u as the example then In my eyes this is using a different book to take advantage of another set of rules because your 'base' book doesnt have it.

Its like Dark Angel Deathwing armies all of a sudden gaining forceweapons because the GK codex has Paladins and Troop Termies etc.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

No offence intended.
Then I withdraw my "offended-ed-ness"? Hahaha!

I understand what you mean about proxies, but all models in my army are appropriately equipped dependant on which of the 2 Codicies I use that day.

They're very based on assaulting, and combat, so Blood Angels seems like an appropriate codex.
The Red Thirst even fits their lust to be in the midst of a fight.

[Sonikgav]

Then I withdraw my "offended-ed-ness"? Hahaha!

I understand what you mean about proxies, but all models in my army are appropriately equipped dependant on which of the 2 Codicies I use that day.

They're very based on assaulting, and combat, so Blood Angels seems like an appropriate codex.
The Red Thirst even fits their lust to be in the midst of a fight.

So why not just use then as Blood Angels full time? What does the Marine Codex get you?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Some better tech, and special characters like Kor'sarro Khan that fit with the army well.

[Anggul]

Still looks infinitely better than the Stormraven.

[Defenestratus]

I'm not too upset that I can't take this abortion of a model.

If I want twl donkeyguns I'd take an AV13 fast Baal in the FA slot.

[eldargal]

I like them both personally. I also think people should wait until they see the kit in person and with different paintjobs. Most of the stormraven rage evaporated when people started seeing it in the flesh (or plastic). Honestly I think most of it is just the relative unfamiliarity of SM flyers. We know what a thunderhawk looks like, we know what a rhino chassis looks like, we know what a land riader chassis looks like. They have been around for a long, long time even if the design has changed subtlely. But the flyers are new and people aren't used to the boxy marine aesthetic hovering above the ground.

[DrLove42]

I agree, real thing will likely calm a lot of people. Didn't like the Stormraven pictures, but like the model.

Although as I've said in the comments on front page...it looks like a Stormraven humped an Apache....

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Although as I've said in the comments on front page...it looks like a Stormraven humped an Apache....

Haha! That's exactly what I thought.

[The Shadow King]

Like the Storm Talon, nice aesthetic, looks like a high powered gunship with a lot of punch. Necron fliers are nice, not too sure about the length of those barrels though. Ork fighter is a bit meh, doesn't look orky enough for me, maybe I'm too fussy. :)

[Kawauso]

Agreed on all points above.

The snub Apache look that this has is what makes it so appealing to me, really. It looks exactly like the sort of close-in air support platform that Marines would need when they're clearing a block in a Hive City...or in need of something to take out a Chaos Vindicator that has them pinned down or something.

[The AKH]

Thought that the thumbnail of the Stormtalon on the front page must've been the Ork flyer... though, it's kind of grown on me, it looks suitably gunshippy and has kind of the same proportions as a Blight Drone going on (though I expect it's larger).

[doogansquest]

I think they all look pretty great. Certainly 200% better than anything from PP's Colawfuls.

Marines are chunky. That's why i didnt get it when people wanted skinny, anime Blood Angels, or a sleek Stormraven. It just doesn't fit their aesthetic. A 500 pound man on a 7' frame would be incredibly stocky. Dwayne Johnson is thick as a tree; now add another 240 pounds with only 8" of height. That's why their armor is bulky, their weapons are massive, and the vehicles required to accommodate them are suitability massive.

[Psychosplodge]

The chibihawks(stormravens) issue is the silly roof turret and and it's too short for the massive space marines you mention...

[BigGrim]

I can see the Space Wolves not getting this. Its in the background that given a choice they dont like to fly.

I don't recall any where saying they don't like to fly. There's the crap added in third ed that they don't like teleporting or jump packs. No flying? Except for starships and Thunderhawks. And with every army getting flyers, I see no reason for GW to cut Wolves, Templars and Dark Angels out. Standard equipment should be that. Standard.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The Hawk Lords are positively in love with flying! Chapters go to them to learn how to pilot Thunderhawks.

[GrogDaTyrant]

TNecron one looks about like what we've been seeing from the Necrons.
The marine is bleh. Good for parts, but looks like a smaller version of the storm-brick in the BA and GK codex.

But the ork one looks like crap in my opinion. I don't like the excessive use of rounded panels, or how it pretty much just looks like someone took a generic jet-model, added a (very small) handful of rivets, a random pipe on one side, and called it "ork plane!" Personally, the thing should look like an excessively riveted nightmarish death-plane (the plane that deaths you), and is fed a diet of large herbivores and tanks. And personally it shouldn't be a "hurr 3-in-1". All that means is they didn't bother to give it any options in the rules, and are instead shoe-horning the players into using one of 3 stock builds... Though given the bland mess the Ork codex is currently in, that's not surprising to me in the least.

Overall... my rating for the Ork jet is "half a jar of mayo". Good for parts, but needs more rivets (and teeth).

[Wolfshade]

The Storm Talon looks like a it was built out of legos. GW spents 100,000 dollars to create 1 molding cast, this is the possibly the worst looking miniature I've seen in years
See, this is what irritates me, not that you don't like it, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but the bit claiming it cost 100,000 dollars to make, you don't know that, and I am sure that if you did know the exact price of work hours that went into making the model it would be in terms of £s since the design studio is based in nottingham

[bubblehearthz]

I think they all look awesome! The space marine one will look better on the table than it does in a magazine.

[Brother Dibbz]

This is the issue of WD coming up right???

[cableguy7uk]

The Stormtalon reminds me of the venom from G Police and the scythe look like a Stargate death glider, minus canopy, both potent flyers.:cool::cool:

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes, it is the newest WD.

[MarneusCalgar]

This is the issue of WD coming up right???


Yes, hope it comes this weekend

[Zijan]

I like the Storm Talon much more than I do the Storm Raven. The lack of proper wings changes the aesthetic to the point where it fits more appropriately as a VTOL craft, in my eyes at least.

The Ork flyer is amazing, but very true to the artwork and Forge World pieces.

The Necron flyer is *meh.* I never cared much for the BFG look of Necron ships, but at least they're consistent.

[oldone]

[QUOTE=GrogDaTyrant;200295
But the ork one looks like crap in my opinion. I don't like the excessive use of rounded panels, or how it pretty much just looks like someone took a generic jet-model, added a (very small) handful of rivets, a random pipe on one side, and called it "ork plane!" Personally, the thing should look like an excessively riveted nightmarish death-plane (the plane that deaths you), and is fed a diet of large herbivores and tanks. And personally it shouldn't be a "hurr 3-in-1". All that means is they didn't bother to give it any options in the rules, and are instead shoe-horning the players into using one of 3 stock builds... Though given the bland mess the Ork codex is currently in, that's not surprising to me in the least.

Overall... my rating for the Ork jet is "half a jar of mayo". Good for parts, but needs more rivets (and teeth).[/QUOTE]

I really do agree with that, it doesn'tlook orky at all i may buy one for parts the convert it up to something more orky or may save my money and if they really have got "oh my lord rules " convert one out of bits, the old dark eldar raider and P.C. why i choose deffskullz, when current model is bland / or rubbish loota a different one :D
Btw next Thursday is the 31st of may (my b -day :D) if that helps to when WD is out

[Wildcard]

I've been thinking for a while now that i need to do complete Ultramarine company. These would definately fit in nicely.

Was it stated anywhere what slots and how many per unit you can take those Stormtalons?

+1 for the Ork flyers aswell, those look hilarious and capture the orky feelin' perfectly imo!

Now with the rumoured flyer rules in 6th, i would so much like to see plastic thunderbolts for the Guard.. (even tho i am aware that gw has stated that they wont redo any of the forgeworld stuff :( )

[Magos Deadareit]

IMHO the Stormtalon is nothing more than a beeffed up landspeeder. As a Spacewolf player I hope it is not able to be used by us ever.

[rabscutle]

Holy F'n Crap

I get an Ork Bommer... in time for Narrative... and one of them is all about the fire... Mad Mek... soooo happy.

That and I'm going to ork up the Marine one... it is far too goofy not to just make into some kind of looted Mek Junka

Any idea on Point costs?

[Emperor's Pride]

I dig them all and am looking forward to their use in my army. :)

[Tynskel]

the space marine gunship looks exactly as advertised: an Apache helicopter with VTOL instead of whirly blades.

[MuGGzy]

Stormtalon.. um, you are going to LAND and put all the weight of the aircraft onto the front turret? Too much reality in my Sci Fi?

[Kaiserdean]

I suddenly want an entire Ork air force.

Or I guess, "'ir fowce."

[GrogDaTyrant]

I suddenly want an entire Ork air force.

Or I guess, "'ir fowce."

The ork slang is to represent how difficult it would be to speak certain syllables with two large tusks in your mouth, emphasized by a cockney accent. In terms of 'air force', a likely spelling would be something along the lines of "Arr-Farss".

On a related note... you might find this entertaining, and a good idea of what roight-proppa ork pilots would be like. It's also the only thing worth reading from Black Library, in regards to anything Ork related. And I do mean the ONLY thing worth reading.
http://www.cold-moon.com/40k/Deff%20Skwadron/deff_skwadron.htm

[Lancel]

Storm Talon looks even more chibi than the Storm Raven. I like the look of a lot of its components but I think it needs a wider wingspan and a smaller horizontal stabilizer.

[MajorWesJanson]

Stormtalon.. um, you are going to LAND and put all the weight of the aircraft onto the front turret? Too much reality in my Sci Fi?

There is probably another landing gear in the centerline rear. I personally plan to take out the rotating ring and trim the gun box as needed to fit it up inside the nose more. Seems a simple fix. I'm also hoping the side gun pod details (Ammo/power box gubbins, are thick enough to put a magnet in so I can magnetize the side guns as well.

[Levitas]

So ugly! I need to go look at Eldar flyers right away to stop the burning in my eyes.

Is the Stormtalon to celebrate the upcoming GI Joe movie?? Does it come with a free Snake Eyes toy?? Add this to the price increase and terrible 6th ed rumors and all does not feel well. The sky is falling and its filled with butt ugly SM flyers... :p

Saying that, I love the ork stuff, and the Necron one is ok if you dig their vibe.

http://www.yojoe.com/archive/puzzles/images/nac_puzzle.jpg

[Balor]

Do we know what SM codexs can use the storm talon?

[Brass Scorpion]

Stormtalon is $45.50, Stormraven will be $82 shortly!?!? $45.50 is hardly cheap, but a whole lot more reasonable.

[Archon]

Definitly don´t like the Stormtalon - it is too chubby, to cramped and ugly.

The Ork Bommas are that what i´ve expected - orky flyers near the fighta-bomma design from forge world.

The Nec-Flyer is okay, except for the pilot. Don´t liked this an the attack barge, don´t like it even here - its a flyer, not a skimmer! But the whole nec-design is good.

[jspyd3rx]

I suddenly want an entire Ork air force.

Or I guess, "'ir fowce."
Ork Waffe!!

[Criger]

I don't play any of these armies, but I actually think they all look good. The SM craft looks how it should. It's a small, one-man gunship so it's not supposed to be really long. It hovers around and shoots stuff. I like the look.

Can't wait to see my ork buddy pick up one of those planes. They look orky as expected. I'm not a cron player, but I think theirs looks pretty cool too.

Why no Eldar love GW? =(

[Nemesis]

I don't know wots going on but I can't see the Ork planes pic at all. Just a pale, pinky white blur on the whole page except for the very top. Went over to Warseer and the same pic is exactly the same!

Is anyone else affected?

[Defenestratus]

Ork Waffe!!

Waaaghwaffe

[Nemesis]

Ok, went over to Dakka and saw their pic ok. Three versions look a bit samey don't they? I would have thought there would be more, major differences. Still tempted tho'!

Definitely getting the Cron ship but definitely not the Stormtalon, it just looks daft, those engines must be pretty strong to lift that fat, dumpy weight up--no, not for me thanks. A quick mess around with that and it would look better as an orky flyer. Oh, and what idiot thought it would be a good idea to put undercarriage on a movable gun pod?

[Levitas]

Why no Eldar love GW? =(

Because in the grim darkness of waaardhammer, there is only marines. (erm, and orks and crons)

But seriously, we will see Eldar flyers when they get a new dex next year hopefully. While their dark kind already have the beautiful razorwing.

It pretty much just points towards flyer rules in 6th.

[vharing]

I cant believe how bad the storm talon looks. The stormraven at least looks kind of like a thunder hawk. But this thing looks like an ork killer kan with wings. I can see looks of ork players using it to make deff kopters

[Mud Duck]

It's the weapon mounts that look off to me. The outside pods (Hbolter,Las,missle) could have been move inboard to where the air intake is and move the the intake back and up. And the chin turret..... Yes I know that all Imperial flyers overcome little things like lift and drag with simply MOR POWER! but come on guys! A smaller tighter to the body turret (I'm thinking of the GI Joe Dragonfly helo, seeing as someone in lifting design ques from Hasbro) where we don't see the turning mechanism, it's there! We believe you!

That all being said, I'm probibly going to get one (or two). Those and the Ork flyer :)

[westside]

40k vehicle design has sure taking a turn for the worse since Epic was abandoned.

The design studio seemed to have had more creative expression when the scale was small (1/250) than when everything has to conform to 28mm heroic design criteria and the economics it entails .

Most of the designs post Epic really are lacking a certain plausibility and frankly, at least to me, look plain stupid (Storm/raven/talon, Dreadknight, the constant Necron in the open hatch designs (sometimes with feet dangling)

Even when Epic design went extreme (the Space Marine era Chaos demon engines) at least proper inspiration and food for thought was provided to Forgeworld to do the models right. Where is this inspiration going to come from with the current design studio?

The only flier that really appeals is the Ork, and that is just the old fighta bomma. The Necron can be saved by losing the silly open air pilot. I don't think even the IP leeches at Chapter House can rescue the GI Joe toy for the Space Marines, simply horrendous (Eldargal referring to it as adorable, just about sums it up).

[rabscutle]

waaaghwaffe

winner

[rabscutle]

The more I look at the Storm Talon the more I want to make it look just patently ridiculous and Orked out.

I'm going to use that thing in Narrative at WGC this year as a Mek Boy Junka (see Imperial Armour 8). I'm going to put Grott Bomms on it... converted from Death Strike Missles.

I'm going to take that goofy child's toy looking thing and make it as ridiculous as I can.

[Garoubis]

rly yer that marine flyer looks horrble im suprised thats the best they came up with ,
Ork one looks very nice bit too rounded in the main body of it but still a very nice kit may have to get oneto fly alongside my 15 Deff copters
necron well............... giant Necron Croissant not much to love not much to hate either

[gserhar]

Well count me in with those who actually like the Storm Talon. A little GI Joe? eh... maybe. But it looks nice and blocky like SM stuff should. I'll be buying.

[plawolf]

I also thought the Stormtalon looked like something an Ork Mech would come up with at first.

However, I think much of the initial negative reaction could be accounted for by that ridiculously oversized and fugly chin turret.

Just scroll up the page a little so that the turret is cut off and it actually looks quite nice, especially side-on.

I think replacing that turret with one from a land speeder would make it look much better.

Just looking at the pictures, it seems that the main reason they went with such a horrible turret design was because the side weapons pods would prevent the turret from being able to traverse in any meaningful way if it was tucked close-in under the chin like a modern day attack helo's turret is.

If you take away the turret housing on the cog they stole off a titan and just put the twin-link AssCans in the niche, it would look so much better.

Since this thing doesn't have POTMS, the turret is really only useful if you get immobilized. Although ironically, given the design, if this bird was immobilized, with the landing skids actually on the turret, if it was stuck on the ground and the pilot tried to traverse the turret, the turret would stay still while the rest of the aircraft would turn before the turret did. :p

[Kawauso]

I also thought the Stormtalon looked like something an Ork Mech would come up with at first.

However, I think much of the initial negative reaction could be accounted for by that ridiculously oversized and fugly chin turret.

Just scroll up the page a little so that the turret is cut off and it actually looks quite nice, especially side-on.

I think replacing that turret with one from a land speeder would make it look much better.

Just looking at the pictures, it seems that the main reason they went with such a horrible turret design was because the side weapons pods would prevent the turret from being able to traverse in any meaningful way if it was tucked close-in under the chin like a modern day attack helo's turret is.

If you take away the turret housing on the cog they stole off a titan and just put the twin-link AssCans in the niche, it would look so much better.

Since this thing doesn't have POTMS, the turret is really only useful if you get immobilized. Although ironically, given the design, if this bird was immobilized, with the landing skids actually on the turret, if it was stuck on the ground and the pilot tried to traverse the turret, the turret would stay still while the rest of the aircraft would turn before the turret did. :p

Hmm, yeah, I think making the turret smaller (and removing landing gear from it, which is silly) is what I'll do when I wind up getting one of these...will make it just a bit sleeker without getting rid of that bulky SM feel.

I like the design overall, though.

[Just_Me]

Personally I've never really understood why there is so much hate for the current generation of SM flyers. Sure, they all look like flying bricks (the Thunderhawk just looks like a REALLY BIG flying brick), but that's kinda the whole point. They are extremely robust machines (like everything that the Astartes use) and are based on functionality rather than aesthetic. What's more, Astartes flyers depend on vectored thrust maneuvering and anti-gravity for lift, they are not linear thrust lift driven vehicles like modern fighter jets, they're more akin to the ******* offspring of attack helicopters and VTOL fighters. In the case of such vehicles it is actually beneficial to be very compact and short lengthwise because it means that they have to fight less inertia when making the sudden course corrections they are capable of. The use of anti-gravity technology effectively negates the need for an aeordynamic shape for lift, and they are intended to fill a close in low-level role in direct fire support of infantry on the ground, again more like attack helicopters than jets. They probably all could go supersonic (through shear brute force thrust), but they are not intended to operate in such a role for very long, so again an aeordynamic design is of secondary concern to pure functionality.

A very long winded way of saying that I actually quite like the Stormtalon. I wil probably get at least one for my Ordos Xenos/Deathwatch force to use and just keep my fingers crossed that the rumored allies rules in 6th will actually enable me to finally "legally" field it... I might add another to my primary SM army too.

They other two are exactly what I would expect them to look like, so no surprises there.

All in all a pretty nice set of models IMHO.

[Daemonette666]

What about a Chaos Marine Flyer? Shouldn't they be releasing something for them with the new Codex coming out later on in the year, or early next year?

[DWest]

Well if the rumors are accurate, then Deathwing is retiring from his position as "World of Warcraft loot pinata" and joining the Chaos Marines.

[sangrail777]

O' I'm gonna have to get a few of each of them.
Well as long as I can use theat apache thing with my Blood Angels anyway.
I really like the Ork and Necron plans.

[Deadlift]

What about a Chaos Marine Flyer? Shouldn't they be releasing something for them with the new Codex coming out later on in the year, or early next year?

Rumours are they will be getting some sort of flying mechanical dragon :)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

winner

I already suggested the Waaghwaffe!

[Psychosplodge]

Rumours are they will be getting some sort of flying mechanical dragon :)

And I will call him Dwaggy, and he will be my ickle dwaggy and I'll hug him, and squeeze him....

Now imagine ^that's Abaddon...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

And I will call him Dwaggy, and he will be my ickle dwaggy and I'll hug him, and squeeze him....

Now imagine ^that's Abaddon...

Oh Jesus Christ! Hahahaha!
Nearly choked on breakfast in the middle of work! Well done! xD

I just imagined Abaddon in the voice of that kid in Family Guy that pets Brian too hard.

[Psychosplodge]

Oh Jesus Christ! Hahahaha!
Nearly choked on breakfast in the middle of work! Well done! xD

I just imagined Abaddon in the voice of that kid in Family Guy that pets Brian too hard.
lol I was doing it Dori? from finding Nemo, but whatever works...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yeah Dori, hahaha! That works too.

[TSINI]

"Turn to page 24 to learn how to put blue paint on a model"

Does anyone else roll their eyes at the very notion of space marines flying vehicles, its a stretch to imagine an armoured super soldier driving a tank in full armour, let alone an aircraft.

The Ork fighter is long overdue, awesome to see these in more games, now I'm motivated to get my valk/vendettas and vultures finished!

[Psychosplodge]

I can see why it would work in terms of possibly enhanced g-resistance, but I can't see why they'd be wearing full standard MKVII armour...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I can see why it would work in terms of possibly enhanced g-resistance, but I can't see why they'd be wearing full standard MKVII armour...

BECAUSE THEY'RE MANLY MEN.


Wearing full plate is actually extremely useful for when the plane blows up and they're still alive.
I'd know, I'm the pilot for our Deathwatch group.

F'ING SEEKER MISSILES!

[Psychosplodge]

But surely there'd be an STC power armour flyers helmet? or something...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I wear MK 6 armour. xD

[Psychosplodge]

but is there space for the jump pack?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Unfortunately that's in the passenger compartment, the seat lowers and rotates so that I can be in the passenger compartment in about 2 seconds.

[eldargal]

More pictures:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141143&d=1337845528
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141134&d=1337835348
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141135&d=1337835348
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141139&d=1337845491

[eldargal]

Even more:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141140&d=1337845509
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141141&d=1337845514
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141142&d=1337845521
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=141143&d=1337845528

I think the Stormtalon looks 200% better, and I liiked it before. Definitely gettine a couple.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I wish I could see these photos. I am sad. :(

[Sonikgav]

The Stormtalon looks awesome in those White Scar colours and once you get a look from all the angles it looks nowhere near as bad as first though.

I might have to look into my Biker army again and add a couple of these instead of my Dreadnaughts.

[Lexington]

Oop, looks like EldarGal got the new photos up while I was posting.

Storm Talon looks much nicer now, don' it?

[eldargal]

I'm in your Lounge, ninjaing your pictures.:p

I really like the Dakkajet and Burnabomma too, particularly the burna bomma.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I saw the pictures that Lexington posted, like it in White Scars colours. It'll probably look dead sexy in blue and silver.

[Sonikgav]

Im really tempted for an all Fast Attack Army. Im currently doing it with Codex Marines and Biker Troops. If these are allowed in the other books I may finally start an all Jump Pack Blood Angels army with these in.

[Defenestratus]

Oop, looks like EldarGal got the new photos up while I was posting.

Storm Talon looks much nicer now, don' it?

No

The chin cannon still looks horrible. Replace it with a land speeder asscan and it'd look tons better.

[Defenestratus]

Im really tempted for an all Fast Attack Army. Im currently doing it with Codex Marines and Biker Troops. If these are allowed in the other books I may finally start an all Jump Pack Blood Angels army with these in.

I think you'll be sadly disappointed when they're not available to Blood Angels armies.

[gresha]

I think you'll be sadly disappointed when they're not available to Blood Angels armies.

Isn't there some way you can get Bike Squads as troops in Codex: Space Marines by putting a Chapter Master on a bike or something? I think I remember something like that from an old White Dwarf when the current dex came out. Either that or I'm insane and making things up....both completely possible...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Isn't there some way you can get Bike Squads as troops in Codex: Space Marines by putting a Chapter Master on a bike or something? I think I remember something like that from an old White Dwarf when the current dex came out. Either that or I'm insane and making things up....both completely possible...

He means the Stormtalon, there are heavy rumours that it won't be available to anyone who isn't in Codex: Space Marines.

It can just be a Captain on bike.

[Deadlift]

I like the Talon even more, In salamanders colours its going to look awesome. I will get 2.

[Lexington]

I'm in your Lounge, ninjaing your pictures.:p
But, but...my newsbreaking! Now I'll never live in the limelight. :(

One more pic, tho. My favorite so far:

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/5/23/369577_md-.jpg

[Kawauso]

Damn, the Stormtalon looks really nice in White Scars livery...which is fortunate, because red and white are also the colours for my Knights of the Ardent Flame. Nice.

Edit: Are there still no photos of the rules excerpts? I really want to know specifics like points for the upgrades, etc.

[Sonikgav]

Isn't there some way you can get Bike Squads as troops in Codex: Space Marines by putting a Chapter Master on a bike or something? I think I remember something like that from an old White Dwarf when the current dex came out. Either that or I'm insane and making things up....both completely possible...

IM glad people read these days lol

I said about 3 posts up, im already doing a Troop Biker list and im actually against the other Chapter Books automatically getting all the toys the basic marines get. If however it ends up being available in these books then I may as well go for it with the jump packs.

[DrBored]

IM glad people read these days lol

I said about 3 posts up, im already doing a Troop Biker list and im actually against the other Chapter Books automatically getting all the toys the basic marines get. If however it ends up being available in these books then I may as well go for it with the jump packs.

One interesting thing to try, with the Stormtalon Reserve Rule, would be to make a Bike Reserve army that Turboboosts up the table from reserve, getting a good 24" across, and attaching Stormtalons to those units that can be 6" away from that unit when it finishes that move. If it works like that, it seems like a decent way to get a Stormtalon a good 30" up the table without exposing it to harm until it comes from Reserve.

[Kawauso]

One interesting thing to try, with the Stormtalon Reserve Rule, would be to make a Bike Reserve army that Turboboosts up the table from reserve, getting a good 24" across, and attaching Stormtalons to those units that can be 6" away from that unit when it finishes that move. If it works like that, it seems like a decent way to get a Stormtalon a good 30" up the table without exposing it to harm until it comes from Reserve.

I think it's specifically deep-striking units that it can 'attach' to, and then it arrives within 6" of them with no scatter. Would work well with, say, Drop Pods. It will count as having moved at cruising speed but since it has Aerial Assault it will still be able to fire all weapons off the deep strike.

Also, if you want to get it 30" up the table safely...just keep it in reserve on its own. Supersonic lets it Flat Out 36", so it can just move up 36" from the table edge on its own and claim a cover save in the process.

[GameThug]

The Sky Talon is too wide, too short, and the proportions of the weapons and engines too absurd.

The "cheek" weapons look like some sort of afterthought. The model is a disgrace on its own, and more particularly compared to the well-executed Ork flyers and the pleasing if slightly wonky Necron.

I've read some arguments that this all fits into the Space Marine aesthetic, and I frankly think those commenters are raging GW apologists. While chunky and blocky are essential to the appearance of Space Marines, this mashed-up mess references the SM angularity without delivering design -- there's no strong sense of the model as a model. This problem existed with the Storm Raven, but is even worse here.

It's good to reference the Thunder Hawk, because it does represent the SM aesthetic as applied to flyers. Squarish, bullish, heavily gunned, and uncompromising. The Storm Talon's posture references the Blight Drone more than any SM vehicle:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/blightdrone.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tidyNAzm9pc/T75r2Vk02uI/AAAAAAAAApU/TnwgIZGG3Xs/s1600/storm%2Btalon.jpg

And if the aesthetic problems weren't enough, SMs don't have an air force! It's not what they do. Aggressive insertion, rapid deployment, assault--this is the SM way of war. When SMs get attacked from teh air, they hunker down, and shoot back from the ground. They don't call to their rear-echelon airbase for a Strike Squadron because they have no rear echelon!

[Tynskel]

%@^&%$ you obviously don't know your fluff.

There has always been air support for Space Marines:

Thunderhawk gunships equipped for A-A, A-G.
Land Speeders equipped for A-A, A-G.
Now there's Stormravens and Stormtalons.

[Kawauso]

SMs don't have an air force!

What.

What are Thunderhawks, then? And their strike cruisers and battlebarges? They have tons of naval/aerial assets. Pretty much any picture of large-scale battle with marines in it shows the sky filled with air support.
Space Marine chapters are intended to be fully self-sufficient fighting forces; many of them even have their own dedicated forge facilities (or forge ships, like the Black Templar).

They wouldn't be calling to a rear-echelon base for air support (unless it's a prolonged campaign...in which case...they would), most of the time they'd be calling their ship(s) in orbit. And you can't use orbital bombardment all the time. So they send in Thunderhawks or, outside of apocalypse scenarios now, Stormtalons or Stormravens.

[Tynskel]

after seeing more shots of the Stormtalon, they did a very good job of capturing the 'helicopter gunship feel' and making it look futuristic!

[Tynskel]

people keep saying it isn't for BA? I will be sad. I want to deep strike Terminators to my locator beacon Stormraven, and have a Stormtalon come as support, while the stormraven unloads death company and a death co furioso!

[Kawauso]

Yeah, right now it's looking like only Vanilla SM get this. Which makes Dark Angels, Black Templar and Space Wolves all kinds of sad. :(

I understand why BA wouldn't get it, but I think it would have been fine if it went in the Heavy Support section so you had to choose this -or- a Stormraven rather than 3 of each. Plus I would have loved to have one escort my 2 Stormravens in my airborne BA army. :P

[Wildcard]

Plus I would have loved to have one escort my 2 Stormravens in my airborne BA army. :P

I agree on this one as a GK player. I hear people whining about the best toys in town they get, so why wouldn't allow these "not so cheesy" releases for them aswell?

I personally would like more diverse forces for them, just for the sake of it.

And let it be said once again that I am 100% non-WAAC player, trying to create fluffy / fun to play lists with a story behind them and not just spamming 60 purifiers with psyflemen where ever the points make it possible..

[flekkzo]

%@^&%$ you obviously don't know your fluff.

There has always been air support for Space Marines:

Thunderhawk gunships equipped for A-A, A-G.
Land Speeders equipped for A-A, A-G.
Now there's Stormravens and Stormtalons.

Don't forget the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy… :)

[Kawauso]

Marines have their own naval assets, though...they don't need support in most operations. Each chapter is self-sufficient in pretty much every respect.

Which is why if SM have to request outside help you know **** just got real.

[plawolf]

I don't think anyone except vanilla will be getting the talon. Which is sad as I would love to have some in my GK and BA successor chapter forces.

I can understand why BA won't get them even though I play BA as descent of angels/Dante/DSing land raider/DSing stormraven + escort stormtalons would be a bit much as you could easily have an entire army DSing in with a very good chance of half your army dropping in turn one.

With the landraiders/stormravens and stormtalons delivering a withering amount of firepower before all your CC dreads and assault marines charge in next turn, I don't think many people would argue that that would be more than a little broken. It would be worse if there were vanguards mixed in.

For GK, you could probably do something similar with a stormraven and stormtalon double team coming in with a deathstar and close support dread. Although they would be hampered somewhat by the fact that their stormravens are also FA, so they can't take as many flyers as BA could.

So, BA and GK not getting the stormtalon I can understand even if I don't like it. But it would be a little unfair for other chapters like BT/SW/DA to also be denied the stormtalon, since they were already denied the stormraven, and so also ruling out the stormtalon would mean that these chapters won't have any fliers at all. Unless they get some new AA assets, it would mean that these books would be at a significant disadvantage compared to their fellow chapters that have a flier of some sort, especially if the rumored 6th ed boost to fliers have any truth to them.

[Magos Deadareit]

Has Anyone noticed how this looks like an updated version of the forge world tempest? like I said defore a beefed up version of a land speeder.

[MajorWesJanson]

Looking at a picture of the rules, the Talon cannot escort deepstrikers, each other, or more than one escort per unit. The angle cut off the part about where the 6" is measured from.

SM are getting it in rules now. DA will likely get it added in their codex. SM will be longer for a codex, so they get rules like Eldar did for Night Spinner.

[Wildcard]

@MajorWesJanson: Where did you find the rules? Or do you own the WD yourself?

[rabscutle]

Blood of Kittens has screen caps of the points and rules for the Storm Talon and the Ork Fliers.

[MajorWesJanson]

@MajorWesJanson: Where did you find the rules? Or do you own the WD yourself?

KronusDaSneaky posted them over at Warseer.

[MajorWesJanson]

Stupid 5 file limit

[Kawauso]

Thanks for the shots of the rules!

So, one-day project for my SM army:

Fast Attack
Stormtalon Gunship
Skyhammer Missile Launcher
130 + 25 = 155 pts

Stormtalon Gunship
Skyhammer Missile Launcher
130 + 25 = 155 pts

Storm Eagle Assault Gunship
Typhoon Missile Launcher
4x Hellstrike Missiles
225 + 25 + 40 = 290 pts
+ Some sort of cargo

Total: 600 pts, all FA slots used

All the missiles? All the missiles.
It's happening.

[Flammenwerfer13]

Looking at a picture of the rules, the Talon cannot escort deepstrikers, each other, or more than one escort per unit. The angle cut off the part about where the 6" is measured from.

SM are getting it in rules now. DA will likely get it added in their codex. SM will be longer for a codex, so they get rules like Eldar did for Night Spinner.

I was browsing the latest pictures from the WD, where did you see it as I probably missed it and I want to confirm it is just for SM Codex.

Thank you!

[Brakkart]

Really liking the look of the Stormtalon from those new pics, though the chin turret is still a bit too big and I'm still not a fan of the 3 little aerials/spikes sticking out the top of it. I want a couple of these for my Imperial Fists. Hopefully they will be easy to magnetize.

Anyone know what the UK price for them is?

[Retroflex]

The model is a disgrace on its own.

I've read some arguments that this all fits into the Space Marine aesthetic, and I frankly think those commenters are raging GW apologists.

Because, ****, what are opinions? Amirite?

Hyperbole is one thing, but damn. I feel like you people are forgetting that Space Marines themselves look like miniature Buzz Lightyears. They already look like miniature toys. Which they are. The Stormtalon is fine.

[GameThug]

%@^&%$ you obviously don't know your fluff.

There has always been air support for Space Marines:

Thunderhawk gunships equipped for A-A, A-G.
Land Speeders equipped for A-A, A-G.
Now there's Stormravens and Stormtalons.

Thunderhawk Gunships are orbital landing craft with very limited Air to Air capability. Their job is to land troops and to participate in ground attack. They are not fighter jets, or even fighter bombers.

Land Speeders are ground effect rapid strike vehicles. They don't fly*.

But hey, you're obviously a fluff expert.

(*except, apparently, for the Tempest?)

[GameThug]

What.

What are Thunderhawks, then? And their strike cruisers and battlebarges? They have tons of naval/aerial assets. Pretty much any picture of large-scale battle with marines in it shows the sky filled with air support.
Space Marine chapters are intended to be fully self-sufficient fighting forces; many of them even have their own dedicated forge facilities (or forge ships, like the Black Templar).

They wouldn't be calling to a rear-echelon base for air support (unless it's a prolonged campaign...in which case...they would), most of the time they'd be calling their ship(s) in orbit. And you can't use orbital bombardment all the time. So they send in Thunderhawks or, outside of apocalypse scenarios now, Stormtalons or Stormravens.

Thunderhawks are landing craft. They are designed to transport Marines from their Ships to the Ground. Like MARINES.

THs are not air-to-air fighters. They are not air-to-ground bombers. They are space-to-ground insertion vehicles with some air-to-ground attack capability. They are also apparently capable space-to-space fighters, where things like aerodynamics, lift, and such things are not relevant (according to BFG, anyway).

Regarding the rear-echelon, space-to-ground is a very long way in terms of the energy needed to transit it; fighters, due to their size, are often limited in terms of actual dogfighting time by their fuel capacity. It takes much less fuel to return laterally to an airbase than it does vertically to a ship.

Space Marines are not entirely independent fighting forces. For their entire in game history, until today, they have relied on the Imperial Navy for Fighter support. Because they're Marines.

[eldargal]

5th edition Codex: Space Marines says you are a liar, it has Thunderhawks engaging in dogfights with Eldar Nightwings. Which they wouldlose as the Nightwings are dedicated AA and Thunderhawks are not, but they still do it.

Remember, there are Thunderhawk Gunships, while there are also Thunderhawk Transporters. Two names, two different roles.

You don't like the Stormtalon, that is fine. But please stop talking like it is objectively terrible and trying to back your opinions with erroneous interpretations of the fluff. SM chapters are independent fighting forces, they always have been. Their only drawback is their size, they were split into chapters from legions so no one man could muster the kind of forces Horus could. Every Space Marine chaptere is a self-contained, independent fighting force with its own tithe worlds, its own fleet, its own vehicles, its own servitors, everything. The fact you are unaware of this and are still trying to claim otherwise in defiance of twenty years worth of background is frankly breathtaking.

It is the Imperial Guard that are reliant on the Imperial Navy for transportation and air support, not Space Marine chapters. After the Horus Heresy the Imparial Army was split into two, the Imperial Guard (ground forces with limited air support) and the Imperial Fleet (the Imperial Navy, with transports and air support but no ground troops and the Merchant and Civil Fleets).

So really if you are going to go make blanket statements like everyone defending the Stormtalon is a GW fanboy, at least getyour damned facts right because at this point you look like a blithering idiot.


When Gulliman set about the long and arduous
task of preparing Codex Astartes, the role of
space vessels amongst the Adeptus Astartes
proved a particular sticking. For an Imperium
still reeling from internecine Heresy that almost
tore it apart, the division of power was a vitally
important consideration. Of the most extreme
options on offer, it was ventured by some that
the Space Marines should be denied any vessels
at all, barring intra-system transports for
movement between homeworlds and attendant
moons. Corax, amongst others, protested
strongly that in fact had the Space Marines been
better equipped with fleets of their own his own
Legion might not have been so horrendously
decimated when trapped on Istvaan V by Horus
and the newly revealed traitors.

Instead, a compromise was reached which limited the
Space Marines to vessels whose primary role was
that of transport, delivery and suppression designed to facilitate planetary assault. Only the
smallest of vessels would be permitted to act
exclusively as gunships, with the larger
battlebarges and strike cruisers remaining
predominantly as aids to invasion, ensuring the
Space Marines would never present a threat to
the Imperial Navy proper.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

5th edition Codex: Space Marines says you are a liar, it has Thunderhawks engaging in dogfights with Eldar Nightwings. Which they wouldlose as the Nightwings are dedicated AA and Thunderhawks are not, but they still do it.

Remember, there are Thunderhawk Gunships, while there are also Thunderhawk Transporters. Two names, two different roles.

You've got a point there.

As I have previously mentioned, I am our Deathwatch Team's pilot. I have flown a Thunderhawk Gunship/Dropship, a Stormraven, and a Stormeagle. I have been involved in dogfights against Imperials, Eldar and Tau. Rather successfully too I might add.
I know quite a lot of flight terms, and roughly know how to fly a plane, which I have applied directly to the vehicles that I have flown.
I imagine that I may get an opportunity to fly the Stormtalon, which I really like.

[energongoodie]

I'm looking at the Ork weapons summary and as far as I can tell there are two weapons that are identical.

Big shoota is 30" S6 AP4 and Assault 3
Suppa shoota is 30" S6 AP4 and Assault 3

I can't see the point of this? If I am missing something then please let me know.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Might have an additional special rule??

[Kharandros]

My problem is that somewhere the design studio has gone off the rails in the grimdark aesthetic.

When you look at the Land Raider, Chimera, Rhino, or even Thunderhawk, there is this sense of scale and design that holds them together with the rugged Imperium they serve.

Starting with the Stormraven and the Stormtalon, every one is becoming less a rugged combat vehicle that belongs in the dark millennium and more a toylike cartoon of what the actual vehicle should have been.

This newest Marine flyer makes me think of this: (see attachment).

Games Workshop has always said the target customer for 40k is teenage boys, now they are outright making toys for them.

Now that Ork flyer is ACE!!!

Google "G Police venom" and they look similar :D

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/058/0/6/G_Police_Venom_Gunship_by_AvalanchJML.jpg

I agree on the orky kraft, its real orky. Necron one didnt suprise at all, just blah.

[eldargal]

The WD summary has the big shoota with 36" S5 Ap5 Assault 3 while the Supa Shoota is 30" S6 AP4 Assault 3.


I'm looking at the Ork weapons summary and as far as I can tell there are two weapons that are identical.

Big shoota is 30" S6 AP4 and Assault 3
Suppa shoota is 30" S6 AP4 and Assault 3

I can't see the point of this? If I am missing something then please let me know.

[energongoodie]

I think my confusion has come from them apparently listing the super shoota twice.

It looks like it is the last weapon on the list and then a description of the weapon appears in the top right. Because the left hand side is cut off I guessed that the Big shoota was bottom left.

I was wrong. Panic over.

I'm really considering an Ork airforce.

[darthken]

wow SM now have vehicles with aerial assault, i new it was to good to last, in keeping with GW tradition as soon as a non SM army gets a cool good rule thats in line with their fluff it's not long before SM get the same or similiar

im sure the older dark eldar players will remember when our jetbikes were the only ones allowed to turbo boost around the board, it didn't take long for that rule to become "generic" looks like the same is happening again

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

36k views! That's a lotta Lurkers!

[Xenith]

wow SM now have vehicles with aerial assault, i new it was to good to last, in keeping with GW tradition as soon as a non SM army gets a cool good rule thats in line with their fluff it's not long before SM get the same or similiar

im sure the older dark eldar players will remember when our jetbikes were the only ones allowed to turbo boost around the board, it didn't take long for that rule to become "generic" looks like the same is happening again

And I remember the good old days when only my blood angels death company had furious charge and feel no pain.

Dark eldar got the better deal out of that one, so don't whine.

[MajorWesJanson]

wow SM now have vehicles with aerial assault, i new it was to good to last, in keeping with GW tradition as soon as a non SM army gets a cool good rule thats in line with their fluff it's not long before SM get the same or similiar

im sure the older dark eldar players will remember when our jetbikes were the only ones allowed to turbo boost around the board, it didn't take long for that rule to become "generic" looks like the same is happening again

Aerial Assault and Supersonic were not meant to be special rules for Dark Eldar and/or Necrons. They are meant to be special rules for fliers, to make them work differently from normal fast skimmers. They are rule kludges until a proper flier category is created in vehicles. When that happens, they can easily say in a FAQ "Units with the Aerial Assault and Supersonic rules replace their unit type from Vehicle: Fast, Skimmer. to Vehicle: Flier"

[Deadlift]

Just been browsing WD with my daughter sat next to me, she pointed at the Doom Scythe and asked me if it was from Ben 10.

[eldargal]

Yes, I'm not really fussed about that. The main thing is that the Stormtalon is correctly priced as far as I can see. In points, I mean. And pounds, come to think of it.

Incidentally, does anyone know what time advance orders go up, it isn't midnight, 5am or something?

[Defenestratus]

Yes, I'm not really fussed about that. The main thing is that the Stormtalon is correctly priced as far as I can see. In points, I mean. And pounds, come to think of it.


Interestingly -

It looks like it can't get extra armor.

Kind of relevant to the discussion we're having in the Lounge vis-a-vis the Nightwing in the corsair lists.

[Deadlift]

I cant seem to find the prices in WD, just says on sale June 2nd.

[GameThug]

5th edition Codex: Space Marines says you are a liar, it has Thunderhawks engaging in dogfights with Eldar Nightwings. Which they would lose as the Nightwings are dedicated AA and Thunderhawks are not, but they still do it.

Is that a picture or text? I only had time for a quick look this morning. On page 50 there is a picture showing a TH engaged by Ork flyers, and I would not in any way challenge the fact that THs are expected to be engaged by opfor aircraft. My argument is that the TH's role, and that of other SM aircraft, is to land troops and to attack ground positions, not to participate in aerial superiority.

I can refer you to p. 37 of the SM Codex (2008), which states:

Although initially designed to airlift Space Marines into a battlezone and then provide fire support, the Thunderhawk's role has broadened considerably over the millennia, with many Chapters using them as high-atmosphere reconnaissance craft, long range strike assets or even spacebound heavy fighters.



Remember, there are Thunderhawk Gunships, while there are also Thunderhawk Transporters. Two names, two different roles.

You're absolutely right; one is the TH Gunship and the other is the Heavy Lift version of the TH Gunship. Neither of them is an atmospheric fighter.



You don't like the Stormtalon, that is fine. But please stop talking like it is objectively terrible


It is objectively aesthetically terrible. I'm glad you like it though. With people like you buying this garbage from GW, we are guaranteed to receive more of the same, and thus my life as an Internet Troll will continue happily.



and trying to back your opinions with erroneous interpretations of the fluff. SM chapters are independent fighting forces, they always have been. Their only drawback is their size, they were split into chapters from legions so no one man could muster the kind of forces Horus could. Every Space Marine chapter is a self-contained, independent fighting force with its own tithe worlds, its own fleet, its own vehicles, its own servitors, everything. The fact you are unaware of this and are still trying to claim otherwise in defiance of twenty years worth of background is frankly breathtaking.

If you've been in the game for more than 5 years, you know damn well how disingenuous your position is. SMs are independent and autonomous fighting forces; they are not comprehensive ones. SMs have always lacked an air force, because it is outside their range of expertise and needs. They are Marines, built right there into the name. Ship to Shore, Ship to Ship assault troops. And as the game and the fluff has evolved, SMs have expanded into a much fuller force, and I don't disagree that they have the things you list. But they don't field their own Titans; they do not make use of battery artillery. All of this is well documented. Perhaps you can show me in the standard SM Chapter org chart where the fighter wing and its pilots can be found? (Wait, let me guess--the fleet. I wonder how many Marines it takes to fly those fighters.)



It is the Imperial Guard that are reliant on the Imperial Navy for transportation and air support, not Space Marine chapters. After the Horus Heresy the Imparial Army was split into two, the Imperial Guard (ground forces with limited air support) and the Imperial Fleet (the Imperial Navy, with transports and air support but no ground troops and the Merchant and Civil Fleets).

Well, you're half right. Space Marines are not reliant on the Navy for transportation. I guess for all this time, the previous 25 years of Warhammer 40k, I just missed the many references to Space Marine fighter jets and their responsibility for their own air support. I'm sure those Storm Talons must be in with my Epic stuff somewhere. And man (girl?), those air-to-air fighting sequences in all those novels and sidebars have been exhilarating!



So really if you are going to go make blanket statements like everyone defending the Stormtalon is a GW fanboy, at least getyour damned facts right because at this point you look like a blithering idiot.

That's good advice--you should take it, and stop pretending as if the Storm Raven first (and slightly less so, since it's sort of a mini-TH, and I can accept the model-selling rationale, if not the lines of the design) and now this ridiculous POS were not pulled completely out of GW's posterior, and that they don't ignore basically everything GW has ever written about SMs and air support.

[eldargal]

Always some moronic troll pops up to spoil an otherwise intelligent thread.

I wonder if they decided it shouldn't take extra armour as some concession to the fact it is supposed to fly?

[SilkySkullShell]

Lysander jumping out of StormTalon
or
Shr shhhh don't whisper the Raven's name or his shadow fall upon the...
jet packing out of his STORM TALON....
WHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I don't care what the rules say I know how I'm gonna fly it.

Its Glorious all enginzzz and gunzzz and painted up battle beaten it wlil be sooooooo gooooood..
Gunzz could be bigger, but hay that's just a gunzz thing.

Space Marinzz we fly!!!!
FORward!

[DrBored]

Always some moronic troll pops up to spoil an otherwise intelligent thread.

I wonder if they decided it shouldn't take extra armour as some concession to the fact it is supposed to fly?

Don't worry, just imagine how much time he wasted individually quoting every single little thing. If trolls put as much energy into trolling as they did into jobs... the upper class would be a lot bigger.

[GameThug]

Don't worry, just imagine how much time he wasted individually quoting every single little thing. If trolls put as much energy into trolling as they did into jobs... the upper class would be a lot bigger.

The quoting system is very easy, so it really didn't take much time. Certainly less time than that required by EG to search out the entirely non-supportive quote from the BFG rules.

In terms of your aspersions on my employment and financial status, I'm not sure of the relevance. I'm comfortably employed, if you're concerned. And you are posting on a forum in the middle of the day too, right?

I guess I should be sorry for interrupting your Storm Talon fap fest; you and EG clearly represent the consumer audience GW desires--one with non-critical, unthinking acceptance of whatever they produce, without a sense or enjoyment of the history of the hobby.

So enjoy your Storm Talons!

[GameThug]

wow SM now have vehicles with aerial assault, i new it was to good to last, in keeping with GW tradition as soon as a non SM army gets a cool good rule thats in line with their fluff it's not long before SM get the same or similiar

im sure the older dark eldar players will remember when our jetbikes were the only ones allowed to turbo boost around the board, it didn't take long for that rule to become "generic" looks like the same is happening again

The fact that SMs represent about 50% of GW's gross sales unfortunately seems to drive the decision making process here. If they want to introduce flyers as an important component of the next ed, SMs simply have to have a fighter, like every other race. The background is driven, it seems, purely by the desire to sell, rather than crafting things to sell from the background. I'm sure someone will inevitably chime in about how GW is a company and it's all about the sales, but I'll point those readers to The Phantom Menace. The quality of the content matters, and I think the background could drive new products.

Developing new products for Space Marines is challenging, because they are the oldest race and also the most regimented. It's no problem throwing out new stuff for Orks, given the vast diversity inherent to that race's design.

I think I would have been much more satisfied with this release if it was in the context of a campaign book or a new core SM chapter. The trope of a new STC is past becoming tired, but it's really the only way GW can introduce this stuff for SMs, given their general orthodoxy.

<shrug> There is really no good way to launch a SM flyer in this class that is consistent, so maybe just butt-pulling it makes the most sense. I just wish that maybe some real creative thinking on this had been done, and maybe an acceptance that the Storm Raven should be enough, that SMs would be different than every other race in continuing not to have a dedicated fighter, and that this would make the game interesting and different.

[lattd]

Except forgeworld have a list called space marine aircraft. This is the comment from the link:

SPACE MARINE AIRCRAFT
The strength of the Adeptus Astartes lies in attack, swift and decisive. Space Marine deployments will often be made directly from orbit, preceded by devastating barrages of shot and shell from modified drop pods. Alternatively, Thunderhawk gunships are employed to rapidly carry Space Marines from objective to objective, supplementing the formidable skills of the Angels of Death with devastating firepower and impressively durable armour.

[GameThug]

Except forgeworld have a list called space marine aircraft. This is the comment from the link:

SPACE MARINE AIRCRAFT
The strength of the Adeptus Astartes lies in attack, swift and decisive. Space Marine deployments will often be made directly from orbit, preceded by devastating barrages of shot and shell from modified drop pods. Alternatively, Thunderhawk gunships are employed to rapidly carry Space Marines from objective to objective, supplementing the formidable skills of the Angels of Death with devastating firepower and impressively durable armour.

Did you even read that quotation? <eyeroll>

"Aircraft" is certainly a much handier term for things that fly than "orbital to surface landers".

[Deadlift]

Did you even read that quotation? <eyeroll>

"Aircraft" is certainly a much handier term for things that fly than "orbital to surface landers".


8 posts in 3 years, let no one tell you your contribution to the forums is either negative or lacking.

[GameThug]

8 posts in 3 years, let no one tell you your contribution to the forums is either negative or lacking.

With 38,000 views and only 230 posts, I suspect that there are a lot of low-post count people observing this thread--I'm simply one motivated by my utter dismay to post on the subject.

I signed onto the forum when it opened, but it's not really my thing. I am a regular poster in comments. neither of those things is particularly relevant to the strength or weakness of my criticism of this model. Feel free to take that up and point out what I'm missing. Pointing out that FW uses the word "aircraft" hardly demonstrates the SM's long history of air-to air expertise.

[DrBored]

The quoting system is very easy, so it really didn't take much time. Certainly less time than that required by EG to search out the entirely non-supportive quote from the BFG rules.

In terms of your aspersions on my employment and financial status, I'm not sure of the relevance. I'm comfortably employed, if you're concerned. And you are posting on a forum in the middle of the day too, right?

I guess I should be sorry for interrupting your Storm Talon fap fest; you and EG clearly represent the consumer audience GW desires--one with non-critical, unthinking acceptance of whatever they produce, without a sense or enjoyment of the history of the hobby.

So enjoy your Storm Talons!

I won't enjoy the Stormtalons because I'm a Chaos Space Marine player and as far as I know I cannot use a Stormtalon in my Codex.

But I know what I like and when I look at the Stormtalon I like what I see.

Also, look up any definition of 'opinion'. You have yours, we have ours. In this instance, neither is wrong, both should be respected, and you've gotta...

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/261/677/1c1.jpg

[Brakkart]

Incidentally, does anyone know what time advance orders go up, it isn't midnight, 5am or something?

I know it will be tomorrow at some point as there's been no Friday What's New on the GW site today. If I remember rightly it will go up early tomorrow morning (5-6am I believe) along with the accompanying pre-order product pages.

Forgeworld said on their Facebook page earlier that they were prepping a newsletter to go out, but no sign of it and I can't imagine anyone's in the FW offices at this time of night, so quite possible we'll see that tomorrow too.

[Brakkart]

If you've been in the game for more than 5 years, you know damn well how disingenuous your position is. SMs are independent and autonomous fighting forces; they are not comprehensive ones. SMs have always lacked an air force, because it is outside their range of expertise and needs. They are Marines, built right there into the name. Ship to Shore, Ship to Ship assault troops. And as the game and the fluff has evolved, SMs have expanded into a much fuller force, and I don't disagree that they have the things you list.

Yes they are Marines, that does not preclude them having an air force. The US Marine Corp for example makes extensive use of a large fleet of V/STOL AV-8B Harrier II Jump jets to support troops, as well as F/A 18 Hornet fighter jets for both air to ground and air to air attack roles. They also make use of the AH-1W SuperCobra as a helicopter gunship. Despite across the board cuts in defence spending, all of these are considered so essential to the Marines role that they are all in the process of being replaced with even more advanced and specialised weaponry in the form of the F35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter and the AH-1Z Viper helicopter.

[GameThug]

Yes they are Marines, that does not preclude them having an air force. The US Marine Corp for example makes extensive use of a large fleet of V/STOL AV-8B Harrier II Jump jets to support troops, as well as F/A 18 Hornet fighter jets for both air to ground and air to air attack roles.

Thank God someone can actually line up facts to support an argument.

The USMC does indeed deploy a significant air capacity. Excluding rotorcraft completely, as this role is fulfilled in the strike role by Land Speeders and in the insertion role by THawks and StormRavens, both the Harrier and the Hornet are prioritized for ground attack in support of Marine Infantry operations, in accordance with the USMC doctrine.

Nonetheless, both fighters have some significant air-to-air combat potential and are thus a good precedent for the developing a similar role-filling element for SMs.

Of course, the modern USMC air capacity developed from dedicated air-to-ground fixed wing craft, and the modern forces represents this historical development in a way that the Storm Talon has just been dumped into what we already know about SMs.

Does anyone know if the Royal Marines have a similar air capability?

[Brakkart]

Thank God someone can actually line up facts to support an argument.

Does anyone know if the Royal Marines have a similar air capability?

Thank you, and no the Royal Marines are structured very differently to their US counterparts. Whereas the US Marine Corps is in effect a combined operations taskforce designed to be able to operate with minimal support from the other branches of the US military (even though in the modern era it has never really done so in any large scale engagement), the British Royal Marines are an elite insertion force, one step down from forces like the SAS and SBS for larger scale missions, such as storming coastal strongpoints/harbours and then holding them against a counter-attacking force (whereas the SAS/SBS would be tasked with going in and blowing the place up and getting back out again). In essence they are tasked with creating the beachhead, which the regular Army can then use to land it's tanks and greater numbers into.

[Retroflex]

It is objectively aesthetically terrible.

Aesthetics cannot be objective.


...my life as an Internet Troll will continue happily.

Claiming you're a troll makes you a bad troll. Coincidentally, it is the most piss-poor validation for unpopular opinion.

The crux of this issue seems to have less to do with the actual quality of the Storm Talon and more to do with a general discomfort with the change and growth of the game. Warhammer has not had ridiculously in-depth and fully-fleshed out history of everything that has existed in canon always. I get that you don't like it, but I don't see the sense in taking such a hard-line stance about it. It's not like Marines suddenly having air support totally ruins everything it means to be a Space Marine or in any way goes against the spirit of the game.

[GameThug]

Aesthetics cannot be objective.

Hegel? Burke? Kant?



Claiming you're a troll makes you a bad troll. Coincidentally, it is the most piss-poor validation for unpopular opinion.

OK. I'm a bad Troll. Too tall for life under a bridge anyway.

[Deadlift]

Commando Helicopter Force

The Commando Helicopter Force forms part of the Fleet Air Arm. The force comprises four helicopter squadrons and is commanded by the Joint Helicopter Command. It consists of both Royal Navy (RN) and Royal Marines personnel. RN personnel need not be commando trained. The Commando Helicopter Force is neither under the permanent control of 3 Commando Brigade nor that of the Commandant General Royal Marines but rather is allocated to support Royal Marines units as required. It uses both Sea King transport and Lynx Light lift helicopters to provide aviation support for the Royal Marines.

Pulled off Wikipedia but is about right. Basically the Royal Marines as part of the Royal Navy have access and shared usage of its air support, as an example the Falklands War.

[Galadren]

If Black Templars could use them I'd buy two Stormtalons. As it is, I can't think of a way to use them with my Codex: Space Marines force as I pretty much run a defensive gunline. Not seeing much room for them there.

[plawolf]

Can we please stop with the petty squabbling and pointless arguments please?

The space marines are getting a dedicated close air support flier called the stormtalon. Fact. Whether you or I personally feel if that is in fitting with their fluff is entirely irrelevant. None of us here own the IP for 40K, GW does and if they say marines have an air force, then guess what? Marines got an air force. End of discussion. That is now a fact in the warhammer 40k universe, so accept it and deal with it.

It is extremely annoying to have to trawl through pages and pages of pointless drivel when one only want to find out more info and get more pics of the new fliers, and I dare say I am not the only one to have such sentiments. If you don't agree and cannot deal with it without being able to debat the finer points of how you think space marines should be organised and equipped and whatever else that is bothering you, you can create a new thread all about it in the fluff section and debat to your hearts content with whoever else cares.

Anyways, rant over. The new white dwarf goes on sale in the Uk tomorrow, so most of us will be able to get all the details ourselves, and those of us not living in the Uk should also get to see all the new scans people will be putting up.

[DrBored]

Hegel? Burke? Kant?

OK. I'm a bad Troll. Too tall for life under a bridge anyway.

1. Names you pulled off of wikipedia? Doesn't make you right.

2. A bad troll is just an argumentative dolt. I will not feed you any more.

3. I like the Stormtalon, it's blocky, yes, but it fits the space marine aesthetic very well. Just because the Thunderhawk is one of the only flying vehicles we've seen in 40k Space Marine models does not mean that every subsequent flier must be a smaller exacting version of it. The Stormtalon is a great example of ingenuity on the model teams part, and a push to keep the Space Marine style apart from the other armies.

[Deadlift]

Advance orders up, £27.50 each of the 3 new kits, cheaper than I expected. I thought £35 easy.

[MajorWesJanson]

Raven looks in better proportion when using the 360 picture. Should also be easy to dryfit and see if the nose turret can be unset more, as the rotator ring is two separate parts.

[Brakkart]

Looking at the sprues it looks like it'll be quite simple to magnetize the side pod weapon options on the Stormtalon. Which is good, cos magnets are fiddly little things, so anything that makes doing that easier is a good thing in my book. At £27.50 they are cheaper than a Predator, Vindicator or Whirlwind. I can see GW selling a lot of these things!

[SilkySkullShell]

So no transport capacity ... lucky I'm a solo gamer... a bit of white out here and there and hay look I'm back to cutting and shutting and doing whatever I like with my wonderful GW FW toys. Lysander mount up I have a special ops for you. I just read through this thread and really enjoyed it, trolls and all, I know many of us are really excited about flying things for marinezz, nothing like some dissent though...to get things swirling around....and on the topic of 'swirling around' isn't that what that low hanging massive rear tail is for ...so when those huge beautiful engines go up and down I can imagine (this is a game full of imaginative people playing with imaginative characters in an imagined universe with imagined vehicles right?) RIght just checking anyway ...back on point with massive air shooting through to the back of the craft under maximum collective conditions that thing might just have a purpose. Congratulations everyone we finally have a summer of fliers. I'm really happy! Cut and shut happy times ahead. In my house there is new fluff being written for m chapter and with rumoured new bikes for DA and Storm Talons. Oh gosh ..... wonderful (fast Marinezz themed) games comming my way. Thanks GW! Those sprues are great for me.

[SilkySkullShell]

Ok this is just my thing, I know it is a flyer, but spinning it on the 360 picture I was imagining this massive walker robot thing with the storm talon sitting atop as the titan type cockpit. I know there is no point to this other than fun. Like a massive Dread Knight that can then boost shunt with all those engines into its foe. A mechanicum beast of some sort Oh gosh I want some of those kits now. My mouth is watering. As for the Necrons. I look at it and nothing happens it looks done. As for the Ork flyer I will diorama this baby for sure! I never did build that Ork army and have a bunch of green skins laying around and that kit is so nice that I now can make an ork table to invade and stop those bombers from leaving the ground!! Mov move move we are dropping in to blow those bombers up .......oh man....... Beautiful looking kit. Go Orks! I'm temptered a couple of battle wagons and a couple of planes what a diorama...could be epic looking with Marinezz drop podding in! Holiays one month away WOOOTWOOO! Love 40K I got The Unkindness of Ravens this week and have been to busy to read it during the working week guess what it is the weekend! 40K all the way! Have a good 40K weekend people.

[eldargal]

I was expecting £28.50-£30, so I'm impressed by the price. If they hadn't raised the price of a bunch of other vehicles by fifteen to twenty five percent they could have actually generated a little goodwill by releasing such pretty kits at such a reasonable price. Oh well.

Definitely going to get a Stormtalon for my FSM, may get some Ork ones too if I can be bothered painting the Orks I have. I hate painting Orks.

[Cinder]

That's what everyone said about the F-117.

[Akela]

meh, I'm just disappointed that, with all the buzz about Flyers in 6th edition, my Space Wolves will go without.

I like the size and points of the Stormtalon, but man alive do I prefer the Storm Eagle mold. Maybe I'll order one once Forge World finalizes the rules.

[Wildeybeast]

So, I wasn't overly impressed by the new vehicles and having read the rules my general 'meh' feeling is only reinforced. The rules are ok but they certainly aren't going to be essential additions to any army. It would be nice to have Shrike's outflanking assault marines escorted by a bit of heavy firepower to give the enemy a bit more to think about, but I'm really not feeling the need to rush out and by one. I do however love the fact that the blitza-bommer has a chance of crashing landing into the enemy and blwoing itself and eevrything else in the vicinty to kingdom come. A perfect example of the rules reflecting the fluff.

In case anyone was wondering, only Codex: Space Marines get the storm talon, BT, SW and the like will have to remain earthbound.