Rumor: Challenges from BoW

[Denied]

Looks like Challenges are in here is another installment from Beast of War

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40k/fantasy-style-challenges-warhammer-40k-close-combat/

[Billyjoeray]

This is one of the rumors that I wouldn't mind to be honest. Although it makes dedicated close combat characters much better than they already are.

[Kawauso]

This is a rumour that I also think would be pretty cool to have in 40k.

Though I'm not sure why, as some people have suggested, it would make combat HQs that much better.
You can always turn down the challenge, right?

[Mr.Pickelz]

I think it would be cool and make sense, if the coward IC could not give out his leadership characteristic right after declining a challenge.

[DarkLink]

Supposedly, if you refuse the challenge then your IC has to hide in the back and can't participate in the combat at all. So if you run up against Driago or Ghaz with like a standard Captain or something, you're screwed. You can't fight them because their HQ will slaughter yours, but you cant run away because your HQ won't be able to do anything at all. I'm not a fan, because I don't think this will improve the balance of the game overall. Dominating HQs just become even more dominating.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Supposedly, if you refuse the challenge then your IC has to hide in the back and can't participate in the combat at all. So if you run up against Driago or Ghaz with like a standard Captain or something, you're screwed. You can't fight them because their HQ will slaughter yours, but you cant run away because your HQ won't be able to do anything at all. I'm not a fan, because I don't think this will improve the balance of the game overall. Dominating HQs just become even more dominating.

Total agreement here, it really doesn't help the game any other than to make it a little fluffy maybe, or fulfill some sense of battlefield honor some people seem to have. They fail to remember that this is a grimdark future where surviving and winning are all that matter, not some challenges that shouldn't matter in the scheme of things. People arent going to stop a battle to watch their captain fight another captain until one of them loses, no the units are just going to go balls to the wall.

[the jeske]

So I can go IC hunting and not worry about being attacked by the squad while using a Demon Prince or a Hive tyrant. awesome .

[Wildeybeast]

Supposedly, if you refuse the challenge then your IC has to hide in the back and can't participate in the combat at all. So if you run up against Driago or Ghaz with like a standard Captain or something, you're screwed. You can't fight them because their HQ will slaughter yours, but you cant run away because your HQ won't be able to do anything at all. I'm not a fan, because I don't think this will improve the balance of the game overall. Dominating HQs just become even more dominating.

Which is why in Warhammer you have unit champions. You throw away a cheap 1 wound member of the unit to the challenge of the combat monster allowing your captain to do some damage whilst negating the damage their own killer can do and hopefully allowing you to win the combat overall. To keep it fair I assume they would introduce a rule which allows sergeants to accept challenges.

[DrLove42]

See thing is...in Fantasy they can go to the back rank and not be involved. But in 40k, unless its a big unit (or a change in CC rules) units at the back can still attack as long as they're within 2" right? Or have I been playing it wrong for 5 years....

And if you're IC is outmatched it does seem a pretty poor result for you. You can either have your IC butchered, or you can have him unable to do something and have the enemy IC butcher the unit instead, meaning you lose combat and likely run away.

Makes me wonder how the INcubi HQ character ability (can be moved to any part of the combat) would work, or how assaulting an IC on his own would

[Wildeybeast]

See thing is...in Fantasy they can go to the back rank and not be involved. But in 40k, unless its a big unit (or a change in CC rules) units at the back can still attack as long as they're within 2" right? Or have I been playing it wrong for 5 years....

And if you're IC is outmatched it does seem a pretty poor result for you. You can either have your IC butchered, or you can have him unable to do something and have the enemy IC butcher the unit instead, meaning you lose combat and likely run away.

Makes me wonder how the INcubi HQ character ability (can be moved to any part of the combat) would work, or how assaulting an IC on his own would

Like is said, you accept the challenge with your sergeant leaving your IC free to fight. The moving to the back of unit does present a problem if you don't have sergeant to accept with but I really wouldn't worry too much about this. These rumours are just that and I have doubts about the idea of GW bringing in lots fantasy rules to a game that plays in very different way.

[Cheexsta]

Supposedly, if you refuse the challenge then your IC has to hide in the back and can't participate in the combat at all. So if you run up against Driago or Ghaz with like a standard Captain or something, you're screwed. You can't fight them because their HQ will slaughter yours, but you cant run away because your HQ won't be able to do anything at all. I'm not a fan, because I don't think this will improve the balance of the game overall. Dominating HQs just become even more dominating.
Not necessarily: if you accept that challenge, then it means their close combat beast of a character isn't killing your men. Not always useful, but may have its moments.

I also foresee people creating tough characters solely for the purpose of challenging enemies and stopping them from munching on your weaker buddies. Eternal Warrior and/or Storm Shields (or the like) would be very handy, for example. Especially running in pairs with your CC monster characters: let the monster slaughter enemy infantry, while the dedicated challenger ties up the enemy character.

[Defenestratus]

As an Eldar player with pathetically weak CC-oriented IC's, I'm crying on the inside.

Poor Autarchs and farseers :(

As a BA player, I'm kind of laughing a bit.

[Wildcard]

Mmm. how would IG command squads work?

A squad of five would challenge a single enemy model? :)

This would lean to the 'leaked 6th' version of character definition: In every squad there is one Character (usually sergeant or equivalent) that works like independet character in close combat --thats the relevant part of the ruling in the leaked..

[robrodgers46]

Mmm. how would IG command squads work?

A squad of five would challenge a single enemy model? :)

This would lean to the 'leaked 6th' version of character definition: In every squad there is one Character (usually sergeant or equivalent) that works like independet character in close combat --thats the relevant part of the ruling in the leaked..

They would have to do it that way.

That said, as a Guard player I can't imagine any version of this that works with the current codex.

r

[Cheexsta]

As an Eldar player with pathetically weak CC-oriented IC's, I'm crying on the inside.

Poor Autarchs and farseers :(

As a BA player, I'm kind of laughing a bit.
A Farseer might not actually be a bad idea, if you just want to keep a beastly enemy character out of combat with your more squishy troops. A rerollable 4+ invul isn't so bad.


Mmm. how would IG command squads work?

A squad of five would challenge a single enemy model? :)

This would lean to the 'leaked 6th' version of character definition: In every squad there is one Character (usually sergeant or equivalent) that works like independet character in close combat --thats the relevant part of the ruling in the leaked..
IG Commanders aren't characters.

From what I understand of this rumour, it's only for Independent Characters and models with the Character unit type (look at the more recent codices for examples). Company and Platoon Commanders are neither.

Edit: regarding the leak, it's been a while since I've read it but I don't think that's quite how it worked. Each unit had a Squad Leader, which was by default the relevant upgrade character or attached IC. It didn't necessarily make the Squad Leader into a Character, unless I'm misremembering it.

But then we really don't know the full context of this rule, and you may well be right. I strongly doubt that challenges will be available for every single upgrade character in the game - that just seems like way too much. More likely just for army leaders, IMHO.

[khsrio621]

This rumor, if taken to be true in conjunction with the wound allocation rumors, might yield some interesting results. This would mean that where you place your IC or upgrade character within a unit becomes important. For example, it you put it directly in the front, it will have a better chance of being able to challenge an enemy, but it suffers a higher chance of being allocated wounds from single high-strength shots.
Of course there are ways around this, but the overall a savvy commander would be able to position his assaults and shooting in order to influence the effectiveness of a challenge.
Of course, I've probably missed something, but I think at least that this combination of rumors makes for some interesting possibilities.

[Defenestratus]

A Farseer might not actually be a bad idea, if you just want to keep a beastly enemy character out of combat with your more squishy troops. A rerollable 4+ invul isn't so bad.


Yes but... sigh... T3 :(

One powerfist gets through that 4+ save and its lights out for my farseer and the squad apparently.

[DarkLink]

Not necessarily: if you accept that challenge, then it means their close combat beast of a character isn't killing your men. Not always useful, but may have its moments.


Either way, it still simply makes dominating characters even more so.

[Alqualonde]

As an IG player I would only be happy with this change if I could respond like the Mongols did to the Samurai challenges - torrent of fire:rolleyes:

[MajorWesJanson]

I'd like to see if as something halfway between current 40K assaults and fantasy.
Player 1 assaults, moves their first model in base to base. Makes a challenge, and moves the IC/champion up next. If defender accepts, they move their own IC/champion into Btb with the challenger. If not, they sit out the combat. Then rest of the attackers move, and defenders pile in, minus the cowardly IC/champion if that choice taken. No combat result shenanigans or anything else.