Eldar Corsairs from IA11 - any good?

[Levitas]

Has anyone played with the Eldar Corsair dex in Imperial Armor 11? Is it worth investing time and money in while I wait for a new Eldar dex?

Would love to hear feedback and see pics!

[Defenestratus]

Has anyone played with the Eldar Corsair dex in Imperial Armor 11? Is it worth investing time and money in while I wait for a new Eldar dex?

Would love to hear feedback and see pics!

I haven't used the corsairs themselves (they just look too much like fairies to me) but I've used several of the other units in IA 11 including the Wraithseer and Warp Hunters and they're all superb units that are well worth their points total.

However if you're playing an IA list, you really shouldn't be *that* worried about how effective tactically a FW unit is. I don't think that the general population of FW players really adhere to the competitive mindset.

I could be wrong though.

[Dalleron]

i think the weakness of the list is the corsairs themselves. t3 5+ save models with a S3 assault 2 gun. They will probably die in bunches. Sure they can have jetpacks and that may slighly improve their survivability, but not that much.

The other units are the stars of the list In my eyes. Basically, they're mostly guardian units of some sort at BS4, so you have better shooting.

And you can use elite and FA from Eldar codex and some other choices from Dark Eldar codex.

[TB0N3]

If your gaming group allows FW lists, go ahead. In my FLGS they have blasted Blood Angels and defeated GKs. If you want more info, go here: http://www.3plusplus.net/2012/01/imperial-armour-list-review-corsair.html

[Xanadu]

Well, I was actually going to post about this in a blogpost, but this'll do just fine...

The corsair army list takes getting a fair bit of getting used to when compared to the generic craftworlders or Dark Eldar. You have to bear in mind that it has some of the huge weaknesses of both codexes whilst having some of the strengths that either can bring. Lets start with some disadvantages first.

Disadvantage #1 - No Psydef
Yeah, this truly sucks. Unless you are willing to pay X points for a character who may have a small chance of negating hostile psypowers at his target unit, then you're as bad off as DE. This has some significant drawback - you are very vulnerable to hostile powers like a brood lord can bring, all wolves - you're at the mercy of GK in their entirety. Not fun at all.

Disadvantage #2 - Everything is so shiny, but so hideously expensive
If you want to run the massed infantry with jetpack build, then the army is a very cheap massed missile launcher and fusion gun line jumping around being protected by night fighting missile strikes. It's a nasty combo, but if you go the other option and take Falcons as transports, you're looking at 200 point tanks with holo fields (TAKE HOLOS). These do and will crumble if stuff gets close enough, but if you're able to deny them taking out your stuff for a few turns then it goes very well.

Disadvantage #3 - Fragile!
Yeah, the point above about fragility is very much true. You're highest AV is 12, and the super killy stuff is AV10 and will never not be seen by your opponent. The second part of this is quite amusing though, with players concentrating massed firepower on the phoenix or night wing before they explode spectacularly, often having not achieved much.

Disadvantage #4 Cost!
Wow, those models are hideously expensive. Yeah, I know I have 2.5K of them in varying states of assembly all over my modelling desk. This army is money intensive. Admittedly, I do have four aeroplanes, but that was my choice. To represent the army in a fluffy fashion, you'll want to get Falcons, Nightwings, Wasps, Hornets, Vypers etc. Tall order.

Advantage #1 Its so cool, and you're so damn fast.
Having the jet fighters and bomber as part of your army list will certainly get you a lot of attention from the rest of the gaming group. These guys can move around so quickly and with the phoenixes' upgrade to the template missiles, it can and will destroy massive hordes of infantry by itself. With an army mounted in falcons - you've got the huge firepower advantage, as well as venoms zipping around with their lonesome heavy weapon.
With regards to the foot build, it is very effective and can jump up the field quickly - overwhelming the opponent with too many targets. 20man blobs are fun, and have huge amounts of firepower - as any guard player will tell you. This build does depend a lot on positioning and timing your night fighting missiles. ;)

Advantage #2 BS4 Falcons
Need I say more? With scats/can you hit so much more often and can tear armies apart comfortably from 36" away, shooting with Pulse lasers. Being BS4 in general is also very helpful as you can sort of rely on your infantry to perform before they die.

Advantage #3 Its fun.
Yeah, games with these guys are on a knife edge. Due to the massive cost of your units and their high survivability, you are forces to play carefully and evaluate all choices. - These guys have made me a better player. With corsairs, you either crash and burn or soar high!


Proof of my experience: here's my 1.5K corsairs deployed for a game vs Nids.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx219/Couderoy_Brown/dep.jpg

... and my prince in progress...

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx219/Couderoy_Brown/e3b2aa1e.jpg

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx219/Couderoy_Brown/11c7700e.jpg

[Levitas]

If your gaming group allows FW lists, go ahead. In my FLGS they have blasted Blood Angels and defeated GKs. If you want more info, go here: http://www.3plusplus.net/2012/01/imperial-armour-list-review-corsair.html

Cool review, enjoyed the read. Thanks for sharing. I would definitly have to convert the corsiars, they really do look like fairies. Myabe stick a helion board on thier back...:rolleyes:

[Defenestratus]

Well, I was actually going to post about this in a blogpost, but this'll do just fine...
<snip>

Great writeup.

Now that I think about it, I already have a lot of the "support" units for the list. 3 nightwings and a phoenix along with some falcons here and there.

If only the basic corsair models weren't so... meh.

[Levitas]

If only the basic corsair models weren't so... meh.

Agree, they are pretty meh. Was thinking kabalite warriors with guardian heads, or other combinations of kit bashing. Then it's just a case of representing lasblasters and jet packs some how, with out them being too fairy like.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I wrote a nice list, it's full of Falcons. xD
I call it "Falcon Punch"

[DrLove42]

Things like Harlequins getting transports is good. Problem is a lot of the best corsair units (Hornets, Warp Hunters, Nightwings) are available to be used in the Eldar army, with better basic troops

Nightwings are win. Roughly the same cost as a Falcon, but you get a permanant 4+ save, 2 lances and 2 cannons, the ability to fire all of them and BS4 for the cost of the transport capacity

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

But Corsairs are pirates! Pirates are cool!

[Defenestratus]

Agree, they are pretty meh. Was thinking kabalite warriors with guardian heads, or other combinations of kit bashing. Then it's just a case of representing lasblasters and jet packs some how, with out them being too fairy like.

I like it.

Might look into doing that.

My corsairs would all be sporting shuriken cats anyways.

[Levitas]

My corsairs would all be sporting shuriken cats anyways.

I just had awesome visuals of ninja felines trained by eldar pirates. :cool:

I asked a few of my local stores how they felt about me running corsairs in tournaments, and didn't get favorable answers. Most didn't seem to want to deal with the unknown, with conversations being frustrating and inconclusive.

[Mud Duck]

The question that I have is how hard would it be to convert guardians into something that looked close to the Forgeworld version? Is it just a couple of 'wings' that glue into the sockets on the stander guardian or is it a replacement of the back of the model with a resin piece?

[scadugenga]

Great writeup.

Now that I think about it, I already have a lot of the "support" units for the list. 3 nightwings and a phoenix along with some falcons here and there.

If only the basic corsair models weren't so... meh.

I use all my old Rogue Trader Eldar for Corsairs. All the individuality with none of the distaste of the FW upgrade corsair kits.

[Defenestratus]

I use all my old Rogue Trader Eldar for Corsairs. All the individuality with none of the distaste of the FW upgrade corsair kits.

Excellent idea. I've got a whole hell of a lot of "armless" metal guardians laying around.

Thanks for the idea!

[Defenestratus]

I just starting putting together my corsair list and I just realized something that is a glaring deficiency with the nightwing and the phoenix. Neither of them can get spirit stones. This will effectively make them dead as dead if they are stunned since holofields only work if you've moved.

Can't say that I'm happy about that.

[scadugenga]

I just starting putting together my corsair list and I just realized something that is a glaring deficiency with the nightwing and the phoenix. Neither of them can get spirit stones. This will effectively make them dead as dead if they are stunned since holofields only work if you've moved.

Can't say that I'm happy about that.

I can't believe I missed that...

Guess it means make their shots count in a hurry. Or keep your enemy focused on something else. (Like a wraithseer...what a beautifully evil creation...)

[D'Natagal]

I have been running a mixed 2k list with very good results.

Prince with jetpack and void sabre
10 Man Corsairs with 2 EML, 2 Fusion
10 Man Corsairs with 2 EML, 1 Fusion, 1 Flamer
10 Man Corsairs with 2 EML, 1 Fusion, 1 Flamer
6 Shadow Spectres (exarch upgrade with cynosure)
Hornet with 2x Pulse, Stones
Hornet with 2x Pulse, Stones
Hornet with 2x Pulse, Stones
Warp Hunter, Holofields, Stones
Warp Hunter, Holofields, Stones
Warp Hunter, Holofields, Stones

Keeping everything on the board from turn one really makes a difference. I keep the warp hunters out of LOS as much as possible and fly the Hornets around the board to take out targets of opportunity. Keeping the troops near cover for the fire and bounce.

It is extremely fun to play.

[Defenestratus]

I can't believe I missed that...

Guess it means make their shots count in a hurry. Or keep your enemy focused on something else. (Like a wraithseer...what a beautifully evil creation...)

For me it completely ruins the list. I mean how the hell can you keep you 225pt, AV10 fighter bomber alive if it can't MOVE after taking a broadside from a bunch of effing bolters?

Completely stupid and I might seek a house rule addendum to these units to allow for a 10pt spirit stone upgrade.

Warp hunters are pure evil btw. I love using them. I might have to try the hornets out.

Wraithseer is definitely fun but too many force weapons out there these days :P

[celestialatc]

I can't believe I missed that...

Guess it means make their shots count in a hurry. Or keep your enemy focused on something else. (Like a wraithseer...what a beautifully evil creation...)

Can you take a Wraithseer in a Corsair's list? I don't see the option in the book. Just says the Wrath-seer is for Codex:Eldar player.

[celestialatc]

I was totally pumped to start a Corsair's list but then noticed the FAQ and that the Eldar and Dark Eldar choices in the Elite slot are 0-1. That made me a little sad. But I might really start making Corsairs as just a different fun list to play with my Eldar since I have all these Guardians that I hate playing with and never us.

I am hearing different things about the Void Dream and the Prince. Anyone have an opinion on who is better?

[eldargal]

Email Forge World, if it was a mistake they may FAQ it and if not they may change it if they feel it is warranted, they are fairly good like that. I hadn't noticed it myself, it really is inexplicable.

For me it completely ruins the list. I mean how the hell can you keep you 225pt, AV10 fighter bomber alive if it can't MOVE after taking a broadside from a bunch of effing bolters?

Completely stupid and I might seek a house rule addendum to these units to allow for a 10pt spirit stone upgrade.

Warp hunters are pure evil btw. I love using them. I might have to try the hornets out.

Wraithseer is definitely fun but too many force weapons out there these days :P

[Defenestratus]

Email Forge World, if it was a mistake they may FAQ it and if not they may change it if they feel it is warranted, they are fairly good like that. I hadn't noticed it myself, it really is inexplicable.

Here is what I emailed to FW, I suggest others make the same in order to get a more popular movement going.


Hello

Its recently come to my attention that Nightwings and Phoenix(es) do not have access to Spirit stones in IA11. I feel that this is a major issue for these vehicles since their entire defense rests upon being able to move. The fact that they are AV10, and titan holofields require the model to move in order to be effective, combined with the points cost of these models makes these models tactically inferior to the hornet, which can do everything that these other models can- at a cheaper points cost with a higher armor value and with spirit stones.

Please consider making an addendum to the existing FAQ for IA11.

Thank You

[Defenestratus]

Can you take a Wraithseer in a Corsair's list? I don't see the option in the book. Just says the Wrath-seer is for Codex:Eldar player.

No - its a craftworld only unit it appears.

[eldargal]

Sounds good, oh you should post it on their Facebook page too, sometimes they give an impromptu FAQing their.

[Defenestratus]

Sounds good, oh you should post it on their Facebook page too, sometimes they give an impromptu FAQing their.

I do not do "the facebook". Do they have a G+ page?

/me checks

*sigh* no.

[eldargal]

I'd do it for you, but I don't do facebook either.:p

[Defenestratus]

I appreciate the sentiment. It is a mutually beneficial agenda :D IIRC you have a quite sizable Eldar Airforce as well.

A friend has recently brought it to my attention that the void raven and razorwing do not have spirit stones or something similar to it and it doesn't stop people from taking them. They do however have defensive upgrades available to them.

[Archon Charybdis]

I just picked up a copy, and while the Corsair Fast and Heavy options are all full of shinies, I can't get over how terrible the HQ and Elites are.

On the Prince especially--30pts more than an Autarch for a crappier armor save, no invuln, and (arguably) worse special rules? You've gotta be freakin' kidding me. I don't even rate the Deep Strike ability given it's an army full of fast skimmer vehicles and jump infantry, and 2/3 of the Void Strike abilities are useless you're stationary (though as I type this I suppose a Jetpack Prince would be relentless, but I'm still skeptical).

The Void Dreamer would be a decent price if his powers weren't so terrible. In the same book, the Wraithseer has powers that seem interesting and effective, while the Void Dreamer's stuff is just mediocre in comparison.

The Retinue and the Voidstorm squads just seem kind of pointless. Unupgraded they can't do much of anything, and by the time you upgrade the to have power weapons or fusion pistols, you could do the job cheaper and more effectively by taking Banshees or Fire Dragons for your Craftworld Outcasts choice. Harlequins are nothing new, they're ok but not great, still using the same rules from 6 years and nearly two editions ago.

All my kvetching aside, I do like the idea of the army, and Hornets, Nightwings, Warp Hunters, and Phoenixes all give some strong options in other slots, I'm just not sure how to make the best of a bad situation when it comes to my mandatory HQ slot.

[vanduhar]

With the eldar codex seemingly still years away I have been playing Corsairs quite a bit.

All I can say is that Corsairs give you a number of elements that eldar always should have had but never did.

Corsair Prince and retinue....yeah nothing to write home about except for a couple of really neat powers.

1. The ability to grant deepstrike to 3 other units. Normally I will grant that my allied eldar unit (which has to be fast attack or elite choices.....) a warp hunter (i know weird deepstriking heavy armor go figure) or maybe an allied group of kabbalite warriors who with their poison attacks can be great against some units. My favorite is a unit of 9 deepstriking wraithguard with a warlock. Although the deepstriking warp hunter is nice to put right next to a big unit of whatever and watch it disappear.

2. The void strike. This is just a crazy good artillery attack. It is in place of the corsair princes shooting attack for the turn...but who cares. It scatters ...sure... but it is modified by the corsair princes BS of 6... so the MOST it will scatter is 6 inches. If you opt for the sonic torpedo...its area of effect is 6+1d6 inches .... I have watched imperial guard and ork armies just disintergate from this attack...or if ya need to put a hole in a bunch of tyranids....its your weapon of choice.

The blade sworn retinue .....they are nothing great but they are the princes body guards.

Corsair Jetbikes are dang nice.
1. BS4 so they actually hit.
2. All have pistols and CCW so they have two attacks, three on the charge.
3. The Felarch (sgt) can take a fusion pistol to give them anti tank.
4. Have scouts special rule.

Corsair squad ....I primarily use them in six man squads in a falcon.
1. Lasblaster.... Such a great change range 24 assault 2 str 3 work out so much better than shurikan catapults.
2. The sgt can take a variety of options including a fusion pistol.
3. The squad can take a fusion gun.
So a squad of six with 2 fusion weapons.....sure its no a squad of firedragons... but they have the falcon as a dedicated transport and they are cheaper than fire dragons with the same BS. Also are troops and can hold objectives just fine. Normally run the falcons with holofields, stones and either scatter lasers or brightlances depending on what I am facing. Brightlances are so much better with a BS of 4 its kinda warm and fuzzy. Not bad for 289 points....strong armor and a flexible unit of troops.

I dont actually run the air power much....i know its odd. I noticed that you cant take the spirit stones upgrade. I do run night spinners and warphunters for my heavy choices.

One other thing of note.....Anything basically except allies can be given jump packs. All corsair jump packs have deep strike. You can build a corsair army around this and it can be fun. I dont feel its as strong as the bread and butter squads in falcons (I normally field 3-4 falcon squads in a 2000 point game).

I am looking forward to 6th edition and being able to add allies hopefully so I can have deepstriking wraithlords and or a farseer here and there :)

[Archon Charybdis]

1. The ability to grant deepstrike to 3 other units.

I can see the occasional utility in, but for an army where most everyone can take jet packs, has the ability to move 24'' a turn, and/or can scout it doesn't seem like it's worth the risk, and definitely not as handy as a +1 to reserves.


2. The void strike.

I like all the effects of Void Strike, my biggest gripe is that it's difficult to actually use anything besides Night Fighting, because it requires you to be stationary or buy a jump pack. And unless he's sitting back field with a Corsair squad that has a pair of missile launchers, there's a pretty real chance the rest of his squad will have to waste it's shooting for the Prince to make an effective targeting choice--lasblasters won't be much help against the targets you want to point a S9 Lance Ordnance shot at.

I just don't see how they thought the Prince totaled out to being 30pts more than an Autarch--the +1 to reserves just seems so much more applicable and useful.


Corsair Jetbikes are dang nice.
1. BS4 so they actually hit.
2. All have pistols and CCW so they have two attacks, three on the charge.
3. The Felarch (sgt) can take a fusion pistol to give them anti tank.
4. Have scouts special rule.

Yeah, I'm surprised nobody else talked about them more. BS4 is really nice, they've got a bit more bite in CC, and Scout on a turboboosting unit is always a plus, and they're only a couple points more than Guardian Jetbikes. Sounds like a winner to me.

As far as Corsairs, I like the idea of a jetpack squad with a pair of missile launchers jumping in and out from behind LOS blocking terrain. I'm still not sold on the Falcons, BS 4 is nice but I think they were overpriced to begin with and the 15pt bump from CW to Corsair Falcon makes them too rich for my blood.