Thoughts on the Ally Matrix

[LordGrise]

So there's this allies chart in the document at this link:

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2290501a_40K_Doubles_Pack_June_2012.pdf

Okies, my caveats: First, I can't get just the chart out of the document at the other end of that link. If anyone else can and will, please post it here? Easiest would be to print it off and then rescan just the one page, but I don't have that equipment. Hopefully someone else does and will be willing to do so. Or PM me here with the image, and I'll edit this post to put it in?

Second, this thread is not for debating whether this means allies are in for 6th. I'm going with the assumption that it is. If you want to debate that aspect of this subject, please start another thread.

So! As far as the matrix as a whole is concerned, I'm very surprised that none of the CSM legions are specifically listed. I'm also disappointed that the Farsight Enclaves didn't get their own listing.

Concerning the Tau, My first quibble is with Vanilla SMs (I guess that means UltraMarines?) being Brothers In Arms (BIA) but all the named chapters being Grudging. I suppose I understand it from a meta-gaming perspective, but fluff-wise, I would have thought a couple more would have been more tolerant? Particularly if the rumor about 6th that the Emperor ordered the Tau protected because Chaos ignores them is true...

Also, I can't see the Tau allying with the Orcs, (constantly harassing the Tau, IIRC, esp Farsight's bunch) Dark Eldar, (The Eldar, who are BIA, would warn the Tau about them, I would think) or Chaos SMs (ditto warnings from the Vanilla SMs) under any other than the most desperate circumstances. They ought to be Unholy Alliance ::grin:: or unavailable. Chaos Demons ought to be unavailable as well, if only because the Chaos Demons themselves would not associate with the Tau.

For the 'Nids, I would think the Necrons might be willing to use them (Grudging or Unholy) or vice versa - dead organic matter is easier to gather, after all. Chaos Demons might also be willing to ally with 'Nids. No one else would, they'd be eaten...

[DarkLink]

So! As far as the matrix as a whole is concerned, I'm very surprised that none of the CSM legions are specifically listed. I'm also disappointed that the Farsight Enclaves didn't get their own listing.


Why? This is a list of which codices can ally. Neither the CSM legions nor farsight has their own codex, so they aren't listed.

[bfmusashi]

Codex marines fill a lot of fluff spaces so I'm a little surprised they don't have Brothers In Arms with more. I did like how Grey Knights can only BIA with each other. I like to think this is because everyone involved knows things are going to be awkward after the fight.

[Turner]

Yeah, I mean the 'Nids never send scouts to planets ahead of the main hive fleet, have them infiltrate the local populace, possibly infiltrate up to the high ranking command chain of the PDF and/or sabotage thei-


:eek:

GENESTEALERS




So yeah, 'Nids should be able to, at the very least, unholy alliance with IG. (however have a special rules where if they are in synapse they ignore that ill effects of their "so called allies")

[LordGrise]

See, now that is the kind of thinking I was hoping for. I don't play 'Nids - I'm in the midst of salvaging the remnants of a 'Nid army - and I hadn't thought of that. Works well.

[DarkLink]

I'm not sure why orks ally with anyone, including themselves.

[bfmusashi]

Humans give them the good dakka.

[Dalleron]

Man that chart seems to havelittle rhyme or reason.

Sisters, rather devout warriors, won't ally with Black Templars, possibly the holiest of the SM chapter that have a codex. Weird. And don't trust some other chapters, that's lunacy. Dark Angels i could understand, but that's them not trusting anyone.

And IG could be blue to everyone, with even the most half-$%ed fluff to explain it.

[Suttobs]

Why is everyone making ANY kind of deal about this? They've been putting that allies matrix in the doubles event rules for years. It's never made a ton of sense and is ridiculously pro-imperium.

Sisters can't ally w/ templars? Isn't them teaming up only one of the major fluff pieces in 40K?

[Chuck777]

Why is everyone making ANY kind of deal about this? They've been putting that allies matrix in the doubles event rules for years. It's never made a ton of sense and is ridiculously pro-imperium.

Sisters can't ally w/ templars? Isn't them teaming up only one of the major fluff pieces in 40K?

Unless a major fluff change is in store for us in the near future...

[Panxer]

No self respecting follower of the Tau'Va would EVER associate with a member of the Green Tide or the Chaos Legions.

Though I must admit that the thought of Necrons teaming up with St 10 rail guns would be a palpable foe.:D

[Wolfshade]

I'm not sure why orks ally with anyone, including themselves.
This. :D

[DrLove42]

I'm not sure why orks ally with anyone, including themselves.

I think its "ally" in broad terms. The eldar and DE frequently manipulate the orks into doing their job so the Eldsr dont take any losses.

As for Tau i can understnad imperium alliances, and they ally with DE in the DE codex (before the DE betray them) but CSM dont make any sense. If he Tau are the silver bullet to kill chaos why would Chaos Marines fight with them?

[bfmusashi]

Chaos marines include renegade marines and the nefarious Tau could be using the alliance to study the warp.

[The Shadow King]

I wouldn't expect this to be the ally chart for 6th, I would imagine it will be tweaked. At the least it will only be the BIA as allies. As for general tournie use, it doesn't need to be particularly fluff accurate because it's a tournie. If you push the fluff hard enough any army can 'team up' with anybody really, it's not that hard to find a background compatible reason.

[Kevlarshark]

Ork Bloodaxe mercs are frequently mentioned in the older fluff as 'working for anyone' providing the pay was right!

Tau would ally with anyone if it was for The Greater Good...the Kroot are savage mercenary canniabals.
I think they could overlook the 'strange religion' of Chaos if they thought it would serve their own goals.

[DrLove42]

It swings both ways. The Tau may ally with Chaos but why would Chhaos ally with Tau

[bfmusashi]

Fodder for the dark gods. They aren't exactly picky and who knows, maybe a Tau skull is what you get the Blood God who has everything. By their very nature they don't make sense.

[Bigred]

I think the Allies chart is a good thing, if something like it got adopted for 6th edition.

Think about how it suddenly adds some structure to any multi-player games, either tournament, or otherwise.

We play this game in part because of the fluff, and regardless of rules, playing a game with anti-fluffy matchups just rubs me the wrong way.

With a chart like this, any organizer of a team event, or an apoc game could just say things like "only brothers in arms, and grudging allies" allowed. Now everyone has a consistent chart, so things start to make sense.

Basically Allies gives us all a consistent set of 4 tiers of allies that we can agree to use, or not use. If folks want a free for all with no allies - great, but now we have a dial of how "fluffy" we can make our events.

I like it.

[inquisitorsog]

I'm not sure why orks ally with anyone, including themselves.
Orks are crude, not dumb.

By allying, they get to fight a bigger fight. Then afterwards, they go fight their ally. Two fights for the price of one! What ork can't figure that out?

[Surendil]

Sisters can't ally w/ templars? Isn't them teaming up only one of the major fluff pieces in 40K?

They can, but it's a unholy alliance (so, they see them as suspicious as dark eldars). Why black templars CAN ally with eldars (burn the witch!) in better terms than with sisters is rather strange. Also, I thought there was some... feeling with dark angels about a 'missing' ship.

Also, I had hoped tau would be able to ally with imperial guard as BiA... but as seem to be in good terms with Ultramar, they are BiA with all full-codex-compliant vanilla marines out there. Way to go, GW, way to go.

[chromedog]

Easiest would be to print it off and then rescan just the one page, but I don't have that equipment. Hopefully someone else does and will be willing to do so. Or PM me here with the image, and I'll edit this post to put it in?



Actually, if you have windows and adobe reader, it's quite easy to extract an image and put it somewhere else. It's as easy as using the select tool in Adobe reader, copying the selection from the clipboard into paint and turning it into an image file - like a .jpg. I can do this even with GWs pdfs (why they don't lock down permissions, I don't know. It's not hard to do. ).

Here it is.
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r221/chromedog/alliesmatrix.jpg

[Wolfshade]

How closely does this matrix compare with that printed in the apocalypse book?