Blast!

[Panxer]

Time for a rules lawyering debate which a buddy of mine and I had last night with regard to direct fire weapons vs ord, ord barrage, and barrage:

Scenario: He's got a doomsday ark which has the S10 AP1 blast, and he wants to fire it through 2 friendly units to attempt to kill a vehicle. Do I get a cover save?

His argument: Because he's a vehicle and because he's a skimmer, he should be able to hover over the friendly units LOS and fire. And...'it's not in the book'.

My argument: I play Tau (primarily), have LOTS of skimmers, and NEVER, no never have I ever denied him a cover save for throwing my S10 slug or S6 blast submiunition through friendly units. It's not ord or barrage. It doesn't 'go over' anyone. It's not a lob weapon. It's the same physics of a pulse rifle or a bolter. If you're firing through a friendly unit, you get a cover save.

Now, if you want to argue "because the gun sits so high" it fires directly 'over' the friendly unit", I can follow that logic, as long as that premise exists on both sides of the table. But me thinks in this case (because I was tabled by turn 3) It doesn't.

What's the consensus?

[SotonShades]

The answers are, conveiniently, in the rulebook.

First, True Line of Sight. You trace the LOS from the weapon mount along the barrel for vehicles (pg 58 of the rulebook). Skimmers are all ready modelled so that they are slightly higher than normal vehicles using the skimmer base or flying stand (depending on which vehicle it is). As such, they do not and cannot draw LOS over other units unless the weapon is actually high enough to draw LOS over other units. The Doomsday Ark's weapons are quite low slung, so other troops are likely to potentially block this LOS. The same can be said for the turrets/drones at the front of Devilfish Chasis vehicles. The turrets on top though are much higher, so wouldn't be blocked by regular troops that are near to the tank, but might be if you are firing at one squad directly behind another squad on the opposite side of the board.

Vehicles and Cover saves. This is clearly covered on pg. 62 of the rulebook. If at least 50% of the facing of the target vehicle is covered, using TLOS as all ready explained, the vehicle is obscured and will therefore get a 4+ cover save. If more than 50% is visible you won't get a cover save. Note that it is ONLY the facing he is firing at that is considered for this 50% rule. If he is in your front arc, but can only see 40% of that facing of the vehicle, you will get the cover save even if he can see 100% of the side facing. Of course, if he is in the side arc, covering 60% of the front arc won't have any effect at all. Because this is less of an abstraction than when shooting against troops, you/your opponant will have to get down to the level of the table and see if those units obscure the target. With half decent placing it is entirely possible that you wouldn't get a cover save at all, especially if they are more than a couple of inches infront of his doomsday arc.

In all likelyhood, you probably wouldn't get a cover save, but without being able to see the actuall, full 3D situation, it is impossible for us here in internetland to give you a 100% accurate answer.

[Panxer]

The 3d situation was a doomsday ark sitting at the back right of the table (as the player would see it), with two units of warrior and one unit of immortals in front of the ark aprox. 12".

The manticore is back left side of the table (as the opposite player would see it) in the open with no obstructions other than the troops in the way.

The ark is modular so that it can be converted from a ghost ark into a doomsday ark, so the cannon is higher.

[Demonus]

The easiest way to do it is to get down to level with the gun, then look at your model. If 50% of the facing is covered by any terrain/troops, then you receive a cover save. If not, you do not. Laser Pointers I find are also very good for this.

If you are still unable to determine, roll a d6. on a 1-3 you get a cover, on a 4-6 you do not.

[Panxer]

Completely fair.

[SeattleDV8]

Or you could follow the rules BRB pg62
if you're not sure whether the vehicle is 50% in cover or not, simply modify its save by -1.