Why does my gaming group suck?

[Uncle Nutsy]

I'm sorry, I don't mean for this to be a rant, but i'm in a bit of a down mood and I need to get this off my chest. Hell, I'm even breaking my own rule here; to never make a rant on an internet board (nothing good comes of it, ever).

For the past few years i've been playing with a small group of players. Ten at most, but the only regulars that play number a grand total of three. myself, one regular and one occasional. Most of the players in my group have armies but don't want to play for various reasons. I dunno if they just like to find excuses for not playing, or are afraid of losing... or what. hell I don't know, they used to be pretty regular before but now? can't even twist their arm to play. yeah it's that bad.

also, every idea I pitch seems to be shot down because well.. i guess it's because they don't like unknown or untested ideas. well that's the idea. try the ideas out, test them and they get adjusted. It's gotten to the point where I just don't ask any of them to play anymore and started to look at driving a good three hours to a small store in the city to play a pickup game or two. bleh.

I want to try out FOC-free games, spearhead games, homebrew rules.. anything really to keep the game fresh and exciting. Even going as far as to have move phase done at the same time, shoot phase done at the same time and assault phase done at the same time. nope. can't even have that. always gotta be 1500 points, always follow the FOC, always annihilation with objective games on the side occasionally.

Now I just look at my models and go bleh. can't even get the motivation to even finish them.

[Ulthwé Guardian]

Seems like your group follows a strict viewpoint of the 40K rules.

A gaming group certainly should mix games up with some scenarios, doubles matches, campaigns and tinker with things like game objectives, deployment zones, Forgeworld units & scenarios, battle missions.

Bluring the movement, shooting and assault might just be going to far.

You may have already tried this but mention your worries about the potential games becoming stagnate, but encourage them to come up them solutions and generate a back and forth process of idea creation.

[eosgreen]

sounds like your taking the hobby too seriously and/or they are slowly loosing interest

i generally attempt to compete in EVERYTHING if i can and i only tend to gravitate towards things that have a high skill cap and what i learned a long time ago was, a hobby is more fun when you can laugh and enjoy being around bad players because everything else thats happening is what matters.

basically if you cannot enjoy something for its own sake you need to step back. if you want to make this your real job in some way by all means take the game seriously but remember that not everyone shares your level of interest.

also note that most people are bad at things. when i say most i mean 99 percent. most ppl rate themselves a lot higher then they actually are and the difference between the 99 and the 1 percent is as big as the current distribution of money in america. people dont like to lose, they play hobbys and games so they CAN be good at something and its not fun when they are not as good as they want to be so they just stop doing it. if your familiar with online games and games in general, most video games are getting easier and easier because people just want to feel good about themselves and succeed in the easiest way possible.

now obviously im taking a very specific guess at whats going on but generally speaking i find people have more fun when they feel they are on an even playing field and you used the word "suck".

now did you mean suck as in they are bad at the game or suck as in they dont want to play. prob a question one should ask first

[woodenronin]

I feel you brother. I am in the same boat. We had a small gaming group now it is just down to me again. The worst part is that I have 3 armies at my house that are not even mine. Been here for years. The nids army left here has been sitting so long ,the glue is breaking down and I have a case of bitz.
I have also tried to run a few campaigns a my FLGS ,only to have 2 people finish the whole thing. Their main complaints "the missions book is unbalanced" " the cards in planetary empires were not fair/balanced'' " the blood angels codex is broken'' " the grey knights codex is broken " "chaos sucks needs a new codex" well you get the point.
It is frustrating.

[Uncle Nutsy]

now did you mean suck as in they are bad at the game or suck as in they dont want to play. prob a question one should ask first

suck as in "making excuses to not play". they just don't like losing. Last time we played, I won three games in a row. after that it was all "nope, don't want to play."

[bfmusashi]

I'd try to find out if they're playing without you.

[vharing]

I dont even play warhammer at my local club anymore. Everyone jumped ship to warmachine. Bringing 40K down there meant getting ignored at best and at worst getting told that my game is dumb and that I should be playing their game.

[eosgreen]

suck as in "making excuses to not play". they just don't like losing. Last time we played, I won three games in a row. after that it was all "nope, don't want to play."

i have a similar story with my warhammer crew. my 3 other friends and i used to play warhammer at each others houses as well as other games when we were young like ghost and the graveyard and such.

they wouldnt play basketball with me though. the reason was because i played for our high school and i was really good and they disliked losing/getting beat badly. it was sad but i can understand how its not fun to play against someone you have no chance against.

are you taking the games too seriously? maybe you need to make more fun army lists and just try to enjoy the random factors of the game

[Morgan Darkstar]

I dont even play warhammer at my local club anymore. Everyone jumped ship to warmachine. Bringing 40K down there meant getting ignored at best and at worst getting told that my game is dumb and that I should be playing their game.

Ahh thank you, I needed reminding of why I hate "WARMACHINE!!!" players.

[juliusb]

Sorry, but if you have to post on the internet about the troubles you're having with real-life people it's probably you. Like someone said earlier, maybe you're too intense and they're more relaxed gamers. Neither one is wrong, but it can be annoying if both sides don't acknowledge the differences.

My group has really serious rules-lawyers, very competitive guys, fluff-type players, etc. I'm not very good nor am I strong with the rules but the serious guys know that and they don't get annoyed if I need a rule clarification or when I make really dumb decisions. On the other hand, if they have a powerful list I don't complain.

[Uncle Nutsy]

I'd try to find out if they're playing without you.


well, one of the other players is my roomate and he hasn't played in months...


are you taking the games too seriously? maybe you need to make more fun army lists and just try to enjoy the random factors of the game

nah, i'm the guy who likes to have the goofy fun oddball games of 40k. But i'm also the guy who goes "lol draigowing" and beats the crap out of them.



My group has really serious rules-lawyers, very competitive guys, fluff-type players, etc. I'm not very good nor am I strong with the rules but the serious guys know that and they don't get annoyed if I need a rule clarification or when I make really dumb decisions. On the other hand, if they have a powerful list I don't complain.

there's the one guy in our group who is just a straight up rules-lawyer who doesn't remember the rules right half the time. drives me batty. I'm also pretty strong with the rules, but if it interferes with the fun or just plain doesn't make sense, I make a quick agreed-upon tweak and it makes the game that much more interesting.

[Colonel Kreitz]

Ahh thank you, I needed reminding of why I hate "WARMACHINE!!!" players.

Everyone knows Warmachine is better. It has a much tighter ruleset and it's for serious, hardcore competitors, unlike 40K. 40K is painting little toy army men and pushing them around a table. Warmachine, however, is painting little toy army men and pushing them around a table, but taking it really, really seriously. With a an attitude.

Sorry, not trying to be a jerk, but I've met one too many Warmachine players with that mindset. I just find the "Play like you've got a pair" attitude hilarious, because they literally mean that you need to push army men around a table and roll dice like you've got a pair.

Sorry dude, but no matter what spin you put on it and no matter how "hardcore" you make your rules, tabletop wargaming will never be an extreme sport.

[steelmage99]

To OP;

Have you tried asking them for a regular normal game of 40K?
Perhaps they just enjoy a meat-and-potatoes game more.


Also have you considered your own attitude, especially when it comes to winning?
It sounds like you have a bit of a preconceived notion about why they don't want to play with you.
While they don't enjoy to lose (as if that was at all important when gaming with friends), they might be put off by your actions/attitudes in connection with gaming and winning.

I, of course, don't know you at all, and don't work on the assumption that you are a bad person or anything.
I am merely trying to help find the cause of a given problem as it sometimes might be difficult to look beyond the other persons involved, and look at ones self.

Anyway, hope it helps. Game on!

[the jeske]

could you list 6-7 dudes armies if possible or at least which build/codex they use ?

[ElectricPaladin]

I dont even play warhammer at my local club anymore. Everyone jumped ship to warmachine. Bringing 40K down there meant getting ignored at best and at worst getting told that my game is dumb and that I should be playing their game.

At the risk of joining in with people who obviously annoy you...

Have you considered buying into a second game?

I get it - you like 40k. So do I. But if your friends need a change of pace and your local meta is moving away from 40k, would it kill you to get a Warmachine starter box and give it a shot? Or buy into Infinity: it's sci-fi, fast-paced, and you can get started for very little money. Or if you really love Games Workshop, try Fantasy.

I play 40k, Fantasy, Warmachine, Hordes, and Infinity. I can always get a game, no matter what evening I'm free and which LGS (or not-so-local GS) I end up in. Feels good, man.

[Uncle Nutsy]

To OP;

Have you tried asking them for a regular normal game of 40K?
Perhaps they just enjoy a meat-and-potatoes game more.

um... I have. but they just give a tepid 'maybe if i'm in the mood' response. but i've already addressed this in the first post.


could you list 6-7 dudes armies if possible or at least which build/codex they use ?

irrelevant to the discussion at hand. it's their attitudes and dispositions we're talking about, not what armies they use.

[the jeske]

irrelevant to the discussion at hand. it's their attitudes and dispositions we're talking about, not what armies they use.
you know that this isnt true . if you have a small 10 man group and 4 dudes have good armies and 6 dont . then the 6 who doent have good armies are not having fun because A they lose B to not lose they have to play against the same people C if an arms race starts[those with bad armies start buying models to have one that is good] , those that dont have the money for it drop fast. D the 4 dudes with good armies get bored fast too because they are playing against 3 others on the same level[and even that probably doesnt happen offten] and playing against bad armies isnt fun in anyway.

+ there are always problems with some dex . someone plays nids , then he is playing an up hill game even if someone brings a bad SW/GK list . some armies cant tailor [chaos for example] or have limited numbers of builds/viable units [tau, chaos] , that makes playing game 40-50+ very boring because while your friends with SW/BA/IG try out new stuff you cant .

Then there is the double army problem , sometimes even dudes get forced to not play army X/Y because"we already have 2 of those".

So the army set up of a game group is an important thing , in fact it is the second most important thing after the groups size.

[Uncle Nutsy]

you know that this isnt true

yes it is and don't argue with me. if you can't stick to the topic at hand, their dispositions.. don't participate.

[herigonz]

yes it is and don't argue with me. if you can't stick to the topic at hand, their dispositions.. don't participate.
Isn't the whole part of you asking perhaps being enlightened to something that you're not seeing? ;) Armies are in fact a potential factor in their disposition.

I have a friend who plays (played?) Nids. Early on when he first started playing, he'd play with very small army lists and generally he'd do well as a lot of horde armies tend to do well in 400-500 point games (they simply outnumber most armies). As we started increasing points, he felt he had to go buy some of the bigger bugs and started getting tabled in most games. Now, I find it hard to get a game going with him because he normally would rather do something else. He even said himself that it sucks to lose and lose badly.

He isn't the best tactician in the game but I can see where he might feel the deck is stacked against him. I have another friend who had had very limited success with Ultramarines and it seems that since he switched to Blood Angels, he's been far more competitive and generally enjoying play more.

So armies do absolutely have an effect on the disposition of the players.

Ultimately though, your friends may just not like playing any more. Since I've started playing I've gone from having just Ultramarines to collecting a total of 6 armies and still growing them all. I love to think about different ideas for games and tactics to use on seldom fielded models. A lot of it is friendly but I also make ultra competitive/efficient lists at times. On the flip side, one of my friends (the Nids player) doens't like to play but is willing to try Warmachine. Another friend of mine (an IG/GK player of all things) decided to go play/paint FoW because he's more into the WW2 era stuff. Another friend works a ton and got tired of waiting around at a game store when one or two players showed up at most and seemingly has dropped off the face of the earth.

Really it may be that you grasped onto the hobby and want to keep playing but others didn't.

[Uncle Nutsy]

The main reason why armies they play is irrelevant, other than it's just going to turn this thread into another "this army is OP!" is the fact that the one other player plays GK, a second plays SW, and the third plays the new necrons.