Void Stalker & Eldar (possible spoilers)

[eldargal]

So, I know the Eldar are in Void Stalker, indeed I know that apparently Jain Zar is the Void Stalker. What I want to know is this, how are the Eldar treated in the book. Feel free to post spoilers, As a rule I don't read Marine books anymore unless they have Eldar in them and often Eldar really aren't treated terribly well.

So before I buy a copy or borrow one of my brothers, I want some idea of how the Eldar fare. I mean if anyone can do Eldar justice while still keeping the Marine mary sueness instact it is ADB.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

For starters, the Night Lords are anything but Mary Sue.

The Eldar are really quite cool in it to be honest, they aren't stuck up and are rather mysterious, they talk to the Marines a fair bit. A really nice twist to the story.

[DrLove42]

I've read a review (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?333016-Void-Stalker-in-review-(mild-spoilers)-4-5-Skulls-out-of-5-for-the-eighth-legion!) that syas it generally pretty balenced and that the Eldar come off reasonably well

[eldargal]

I've read that review and a few of the spoilers in the thread, I was hoping someone could write a spoilerific mini-review about the Eldar specifically. I don't want to go to the trouble of buying and reading it only to find it is another Firedrake or whatever it was with stupid Dark Eldar and conveniently forgotten Eldar tech.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I've read that review and a few of the spoilers in the thread, I was hoping someone could write a spoilerific mini-review about the Eldar specifically. I don't want to go to the trouble of buying and reading it only to find it is another Firedrake or whatever it was with stupid Dark Eldar and conveniently forgotten Eldar tech.

No forgotten tech here!
Everything is fairly standard, they are just expert at dodging. They were opened fire upon by a Thunderhawk and dodged all of the bullets!

[eldargal]

Details!:p Who was involved, how many, what was the marine/eldar kill ratio, how did Jain Zar do etc,;)

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Would you like it if I forwarded you all the bits where the Eldar are involved? I could type it up when I get home and send it over to you?
I don't have the book to hand currently.

[eldargal]

That would be great, thanks. :) That way I can decide if ADB wrote th Eldar well and if it is worth reading the book. Mind you I read the previous two in the trilogy so I probably shoudl anyway, but I'm just so sick of Marines.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Sometimes they make really good reading, I admit though that the other races NEED novels. I want more about Commoragh, or some about the Tau!

I'd say that the Night Lords are Anti-Sue, they in fact take the piss out of the Genesis chapter, which is so funny.

I think Jain Zar got "killed" in the end, though it was by Malcharion so fair play.

[DrLove42]

If you're offering to type up all the Eldar bits...either;

a) You're a demon typist
b) You really ahve too much time on your hands
c) The Eldar barely feature in it

And she's a Phoenix Lord....you can't really kill her....

[eldargal]

Well she probably gets squished given that she is the titular antagonist, but as you say she is immortal so who cares so long as she is suitably badyetattractiveass.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

If you're offering to type up all the Eldar bits...either;

a) You're a demon typist
b) You really ahve too much time on your hands
c) The Eldar barely feature in it

And she's a Phoenix Lord....you can't really kill her....

a) Yes I am
b) I have nothing to do tonight (how lame!)
c) They're only really in it at the end.

d) Hence my quotation marks over it :D

[Levitas]

a) Yes I am
b) I have nothing to do tonight (how lame!)
c) They're only really in it at the end.

d) Hence my quotation marks over it :D

I think your just a nice guy willing to help out a fellow gamer. Proof that the internet isnt totally filled with ***holes. Well done sir, achievement unlocked:D

Not all marine books are bad, but us xenolgists need more love. While the human horus heresy has a lot to tell, other races have rich material ripe for novels too. Instead we chase scraps and cameos :(. Cant wait for Path of the Outcast!

[eldargal]

Oh I'm not saying Marine books are bad, I enjoyed Soul Haunter and Helreach immensely. I'm just bored with Marines. Give me Inquisitors, SoB, Guard even, but just more variety than 8/10 BL books being about Marines.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I think your just a nice guy willing to help out a fellow gamer. Proof that the internet isnt totally filled with ***holes. Well done sir, achievement unlocked:D

Not all marine books are bad, but us xenolgists need more love. While the human horus heresy has a lot to tell, other races have rich material ripe for novels too. Instead we chase scraps and cameos :(. Cant wait for Path of the Outcast!

I try to be a nice guy, like my icon - Kharn the Betrayer (what a fun guy to be around), but the public sector (specifically teachers) may disagree!

I really want a Tau book series. Maybe I should write it!

[helvexis]

i like the way the tau come across in the last chances series. but yes a tau book from their point of view would be awesome the way the dark eldar were written was just a little bit worryingly good in some places.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

i like the way the tau come across in the last chances series. but yes a tau book from their point of view would be awesome the way the dark eldar were written was just a little bit worryingly good in some places.

Yeah, I agree. Though admittedly I picture Commorragh a LOT darker. Walk down an alley and get murdered, raped, hung drawn and quartered, and offered 5 wives - all simultaneously.

[Anggul]

For starters, the Night Lords are anything but Mary Sue.

First claw are a bit. They get fired upon by an entire squad of marines and not one of them dies. He pulls the whole 'Oh wow look how horribly beaten up they are!' rubbish but you just know it won't actually come to anything, and indeed it doesn't, it's just a passing moment. The plot armour is exceedingly strong with them.


I find the idea of a Dreadnought managing to land a hit on a Phoenix Lord (Jain Zar least of all) rather silly. I'll reserve most of my judgement for the book until I've read it, but I don't usually expect much from anything about Eldar from the Black Library. I'm still annoyed at how badly the rubbish, nonsensical final battle in the 'Path' books ruins the good run they had up until that point.

[eldargal]

Reminds me of the DoW II cinematic where a dreadnought manages to ambush some Howling Banshees. Because those things are just so damned stealthy.

I wouldn't say the final battle in the Path series was nonsensical, there were some bits which were highly annoying but on the whole it made sense. The Eldar were dividing and trapping IoM forces as they landed, it was only the Space Marine spearhead lead by a Librarian that fared particularly well.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I refer you to the Icelus Pattern Dreadnought, whilst not canon, it is a particularly good idea.

Stealth Dreadnoughts!!! (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Icelus_Pattern_Dreadnought)

[Kaika87]

First claw are a bit. They get fired upon by an entire squad of marines and not one of them dies. He pulls the whole 'Oh wow look how horribly beaten up they are!' rubbish but you just know it won't actually come to anything, and indeed it doesn't, it's just a passing moment. The plot armour is exceedingly strong with them.


I find the idea of a Dreadnought managing to land a hit on a Phoenix Lord (Jain Zar least of all) rather silly. I'll reserve most of my judgement for the book until I've read it, but I don't usually expect much from anything about Eldar from the Black Library. I'm still annoyed at how badly the rubbish, nonsensical final battle in the 'Path' books ruins the good run they had up until that point.

To be fair to Jain Zar, she was not in a capacity to dodge by the time Malcharion got to her.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

That is a good point, and I also kinda dropped the ball. Said that I'd be doing nothing and then ALL THE THINGS happened. Irony.

[Anggul]

To be fair to Jain Zar, she was not in a capacity to dodge by the time Malcharion got to her.

I'm not going to ask... but I do hope that doesn't suggest that First Claw somehow managed to take on a Phoenix Lord. Presumably there are other circumstances.

[Kaika87]

I'm not going to ask... but I do hope that doesn't suggest that First Claw somehow managed to take on a Phoenix Lord. Presumably there are other circumstances.

I will only say that Jain Zar made for an incredibly threatening antagonist. If you want me to go into detail, I will, but fairly be ye warned.

[Anggul]

I will only say that Jain Zar made for an incredibly threatening antagonist. If you want me to go into detail, I will, but fairly be ye warned.

I think I'll just wait for a friend of mine to finish reading his copy, then read it for myself. I'll be interested to see how in the world they deal with her though, because they certainly couldn't in a straight fight, and I don't imagine they'd be able to trick her either.

[Anggul]

I have finished the book. I must say the book was excellent up until the last couple of chapters. Some day a black library writer might write a fight with the Eldar in which they aren't apparently all idiots who fail at fighting and any form of strategy, but this was not it.

SPOILERS BUT NOT EXACTLY IMPORTANT


It seems that he has basically thought: 'If the Eldar actually make sensible decisions, they will win with relative ease and minimal given the small number of Space Marines present... unless I say that they only have guardians with swords, pistols and catapults, and some howling banshees. Giving the guardians heavy or special weapons? Goodness no, what kind of an Eldar would do that? Other aspect warriors? Nah, that would give them a far better chance, can't have that, let's give some flimsy excuse that the other shrines didn't want to go with Jain Zar because they don't want to leave the craftworld a little bit more vulnerable (it's completely fine to expend a few hundred Eldar citizens though!). Hey let's say they have a lot of Wraithships because they're low on personnel (despite being described as having at least couple of hundred Eldar in the attack force). Logically then, they would also bring Wraithguard which can decimate even terminator armour. Hmm I'll just pretend those don't exist.

Also he describes guardians as being no better than hive gangers given weapons and armour. Guardians, who are able to outfight Imperial Guard and are also given heavy and special weapons which would reap a heavy toll on the marines. Oh and apparently Variel can speak Eldar... and Lucoryphus knows exactly what spirit stones are... and Jain Zar falls for stupid tricks, and her ancient phoenix lord armour is cracked by (literally) a couple of bolt rounds.


It's a real shame because the rest of the entire trilogy is so excellent and by far some of the best 40k books I have ever read. It seems that most writers just can't write well about the Eldar. I am by no means saying that they would have slaughtered them. Space marines are deadly, fearsome warriors. It's just that authors resort to treating the Eldar like idiots and completely forgetting about their many strengths in an attempt to make their failure seem plausible, rather than going the route which requires more thought and effort but is far more convincing, which would be to factor in their intelligence and strengths, but write to accommodate them as any fan of a universe should.