Anrakyr the Traveller and Barges

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Good day to you all, I hope you are well! :D

I just need something clearing up and clarifying in regards to Anrakyr's "Mind in the Machine" rule, I have checked the FAQ and it doesn't seem to mention it... Am I right in thinking that he can't use this ability whilst being mounted (even if it is open topped) because it isn't a straight-up shooting attack?

Any help is appreciated, snarky comments will be ignored. (Trolls beware!)

Ta!

[isotope99]

I's not 100% clear as the relevant BRB FAQ question refers to 'fire points' specifically and an open topped transport doesn't have any fire points (this coudl just be the usual imprecision in the rules though rather than an intentional exemption).

It has been interpreted as barring Anrakyr's ability (and people have said that it was put up specifically because of him, though I haven't seen evidence of this).

Prudent position when list-building is to assume not - making anrakyr in a barge a bit of a waste of points IMHO, better to run him on foot with a cronometron cryptek to re-roll his tachyon arrow and machine power.

[Jwolf]

You're going to get some passionate and probably slanted responses here. If you treat open topped vehicles as having a single unlimited firepoint, then he cannot, and this is not an uncommon interpretation.

I am inclined to treat open topped vehicles as having no fire points, and also not requiring any. Under this interpretation, he can use his ability while on a barge.

[Nachodragon]

If you are playing fun games just ask your opponent beforehand. Otherwise, ask the interpretation before going to a tournament. Hopefully, 6th will bring some clarification, to this and many other poorly worded rules.

[Kaika87]

Just for y'all's betterment of knowledge:



Q: Can 'Mind in the Machine' be used while Anrakyr is embarked on a Command Barge?
A: No. 'Mind in the Machine' is a (non-psychic power) special rule that requires line of sight, which means it cannot be used when embarked on a vehicle.


Now not all tournaments use the INAT, but it does lend credence to the idea that he can't. Also, the FAQ ruling does NOT single him out. Nemesor Zahndrek, Anrakyr, Coteaz ("I've Been Expecting You"), and potentially Njal are all affected.

[Nachodragon]

I would say Coteaz and Njal are not even potentially affected, they ARE affected. There is no open-topped vehicle (transport) that can be used by those units.

I don't play in tournaments so don't know what this INAT FAQ is, but it sounds like they are ignoring the part of the normal FAQ mentioning Fire Points. It is their ruling so not much can be said about it. Hopefully, 6th clears up any issues in the future.

[Tynskel]

Inat=poop.

I recommend thinking about the rules, instead.

[Nachodragon]

Without turning this thread into a huge cluster... I agree with reading the rules and unless there is a FAQ from GW, I would suggest interpreting the rules as close to RAW as possible, don't add or remove anything from the rule. Otherwise, why even play with the rules, just roll some dice and play with your little army men. :p

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Thanks for the responses everyone, case solved.

They may have updated the FAQ since I last looked (when the FAQ was released), I have issues with internet at the moment, I'm only on here because I'm at work. (naughty, naughty!)

I just like to know every little niche of my army so that my opponent doesn't try to cheese me on my own codex. (there are plenty of cheaters at my GW, most of which already have significant scorn)

[SeattleDV8]

It is actually better to treat the open topped vehicle as a unrestricted fire point.

A fire point allows shooting and pyschic powers.
Where the open topped rules only allow shooting.
Neither allow LOS for any other wargear or powers.

[Demonus]

No. 'Mind in the Machine' is a (non-psychic power) special rule that requires line of sight, which means it cannot be used when embarked on a vehicle.


Huh? So is this saying something requiring line of sight cannot be used when embarked on a vehicle? :confused:

[Dlatrex]

Huh? So is this saying something requiring line of sight cannot be used when embarked on a vehicle? :confused:

Essentially yes. The exception is made for shooting attacks, and psychic powers (which count as a shooting attack for the purposes of fire points).

The BRB FAQ reads:

"Q: Can models embarked upon a vehicle use its fire points to draw line of sight to a unit to use special rules or wargear (other than shooting)? (p66)
A: No."

Which takes us back to 'does an open-topped vehicle count as having a fire-point. Either way, as much as it begrudges me to admit it, Mind of the Machine does count as a non-shooting, non-psychic power and thus would probably be subject to the above rule when he is embarked regardless of how the command barge is treated.

[Nachodragon]

The biggest issue with this FAQ is no where does it say in the BRB you CAN use anything other than shooting attacks (normal or psychic). This came out of left field to cover some imaginary conflict that people were having and since their rules are vague at best, this just leads to more conflict. Personally, the idea of an open-topped vehicle having fire-points is ludicrous.

Basically, you take a platform in which you can shoot anywhere from and place a box on top. There is no longer anywhere to shoot from so you need to add a point to fire from, or a couple. This is the idea of a fire point, it is point in which to fire, a specific point. Open-topped have no specific points in which to fire from, they can fire freely. To say they have a fire point makes no sense.

[Tynskel]

The point, in this case, is that even IF you had a fire point, you cannot use non-shooting abilities from a vehicle.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

A load of conflicting opinions here, I think the general consensus is just ask the judges and your opponent before the game.

[Demonus]

Essentially yes. The exception is made for shooting attacks, and psychic powers (which count as a shooting attack for the purposes of fire points).

The BRB FAQ reads:

"Q: Can models embarked upon a vehicle use its fire points to draw line of sight to a unit to use special rules or wargear (other than shooting)? (p66)
A: No."

Which takes us back to 'does an open-topped vehicle count as having a fire-point. Either way, as much as it begrudges me to admit it, Mind of the Machine does count as a non-shooting, non-psychic power and thus would probably be subject to the above rule when he is embarked regardless of how the command barge is treated.

ah non shooting attacks, gotcha. :)
for the record i am of the mind that open top vehicles do not need a "fire point", but that is just a house rule as we arent waac players.