Startin´ a new army

[BoH Montevideo]

Hello friends! I am starting playing w40K and I have decided to start by the Dark Eldars! And I want to know if you have some advices to give me about this army, I have never played w40K. I order the warriors and a scourge box to start because I couldn´t afford the battleforce. It is that ok? I want to make a an army that could attack very quickly, I played with dwarfs in fantasy and with Khador in warmachine, both army are very sloooooow and I want to prove something new.
See you friends!






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[the jeske]

if money is a problem you A shouldnt play w40k B shouldnt start an army which runs a lot of vehicles and small groups of units with specials .

In general you want to use venoms [with warriors and trueborn inside] 1-2 big transports and support them with ravagers [look as transports but have 3 hvy guns instead of the transport abilty] .

as for HQs homos are ok cheap and they give pain tokens and archon with a unit of incumbi isnt bad if you want a counter/hth element in your army . Wrecks are not bad per se , but not used in every list . they are very good when you play a lot against a lot of nids , footdar[eldar without tanks] or greenwave[orcs without transports].

[Chaoschrist]

if money is a problem you A shouldnt play w40k B shouldnt start an army which runs a lot of vehicles and small groups of units with specials .

In general you want to use venoms [with warriors and trueborn inside] 1-2 big transports and support them with ravagers [look as transports but have 3 hvy guns instead of the transport abilty] .

as for HQs homos are ok cheap and they give pain tokens and archon with a unit of incumbi isnt bad if you want a counter/hth element in your army . Wrecks are not bad per se , but not used in every list . they are very good when you play a lot against a lot of nids , footdar[eldar without tanks] or greenwave[orcs without transports].

While I tend to agree with the hobby being "expensive", there is no rule that says you should buy loads and loads to begin.

Cheap models and thus a horde army in general is more expensive, but adding a box every month is fine... the issue might be that low points games wont get you a lot of players to play against, and thus it might not motivate one to keep playing a lot if there's no one who is willing to play 500 points games.

It's why, when I got back in the hobby, started with GK and currently doing a Deathwing force with a fair share of Black reach models through ebay.

So yes, I agree with B, A not neccesarily.

[Chuck777]

If you are strapped for cash, I would suggest starting off with a 500 point army. Unfortunately, there really isn't a cheap way to build a Dark Eldar army (Space Marines and Orks are in the Starter set and you can build quite a large force by buying starter set models very cheaply). Battleforces are not necessary, though many do provide good savings. My suggestion is to build a 500 point list then, every month/month-and-a-half there after, add 250 points to your list.

You could start with say an Archon and a few weapon upgrades and 2 units of 14 or 15 Warriors with some upgrades and a sybarite. That should get you to 500 points. You could save 15 bucks by converting one of your Warriors into an Archon (give him the right weapons and add some spikes and other flourishes to the model).

For your next increase you could buy a Raider and a unit of Reavers. That should get you to 750.

The month after, maybe buy another Raider and another unit of Reavers (to make them 10 man strong), that should get you to 1000-ish.

After that you will have played a large number of games and had 3 months of play time with your army. At that point, you will know what you want and need to make your army better. :)

[the jeske]

While I tend to agree with the hobby being "expensive", there is no rule that says you should buy loads and loads to begin.
which is all well and true if your starting a GK draigo wing . 3 boxs of termis the man +2NDKS and your done.
DE require a lot of transports , a lot of specials weapons which makes them cost a lot . the same with IG and necron . I dont think that starting small is an option for DE because unlike meq armies that can be carried by rules and stats a non meq army does not work at all unless it is a proper build .




For your next increase you could buy a Raider and a unit of Reavers. That should get you to 750.

The month after, maybe buy another Raider and another unit of Reavers (to make them 10 man strong), that should get you to 1000-ish.
why should be buy ravers if he is not going to use them in an actual army ?




and thus it might not motivate one to keep playing a lot if there's no one who is willing to play 500 points games.
you think he will want to play at all after playing someone with an actual army ?

[Chaoschrist]

which is all well and true if your starting a GK draigo wing . 3 boxs of termis the man +2NDKS and your done.
DE require a lot of transports , a lot of specials weapons which makes them cost a lot . the same with IG and necron . I dont think that starting small is an option for DE because unlike meq armies that can be carried by rules and stats a non meq army does not work at all unless it is a proper build .


you think he will want to play at all after playing someone with an actual army ?

So... in a way it does come down to not only "choosing your army based on what you think is aesthetically pleasing" but also what you can afford.

I can see how that works, but it's a shame though, that with all the armies that are around there's more than just "get enough models which you like". To be honest, some armies have enough good looking models that are NOT troops, and forcing yourself to go onto that might be something already, if you then include listbuilding I could totally see how people lose interest in playing army X (or the game alltogether).

It makes me wonder if there is a relation between new players, netlists and the inability to play those, which to some extent might also be carried over to other games (I'm looking at all those cardgames)

[Chuck777]

There's no shame in starting small and building up to a larger army. Only fools jump head long into a new game and buy a whole mess of models before they know how to play and what they may or may not want to invest in.

[the jeske]

So you want to to tell me that it is "better" to slowly buy models , not be able to play real games at all[when your friends who started meq armies can] get to 1500pts in half a year and find out that A models you bought do not make a good army B you dont like the game play of the army C 'cool" models dont make good armies D half a year is half the time a normal dude "plays" w40k . E your friends who are playing w40k for a 4-5 months have armies twice the size in points and your still losining the arms race[specialy as you bought some models that are never used].

If make a w40k army for the first time in his life then it is better both for him and the time he may want to spent playing this game , to focus on units that are good and which he will use. Trueborn and warriors in vernoms , are they bad units ? no . the tri dark lance skimers , will he not use them ? he will. will he not need 2 non venom transports ? he will , probably more if he wants to play more then 1500pts.

And as net listing goes and inabilty to play.What is better to get a bike [you never seen one before] and learn to drive it , or get a back of random parts of bikes, cars and quads and try to build something out it and then try to ride it . Net lists arent harder to use then non net lists[not that it requires net listing to notice what is good and what is bad in any dex] , but more forgiving . I mean what is next telling someone who starts that he can build an army out of any models he likes ?

[UltramarineFan]

I mean what is next telling someone who starts that he can build an army out of any models he likes ?

If you mean, telling someone they can buy whichever models are appealing to them within that army then yes, yes they can. You clearly have a way of collecting which is focussed on playing, that doesn't make yours the only way. If the guy would prefer to build up his army slowly over time then that's not a problem, there's literally no reason why he shouldn't come out with a competent force at the end of it. Also, for all we know some of his friends may already have 40k armies anyway, meaning your 'arms race' idea his null and void.

[Chaoschrist]

So you want to to tell me that it is "better" to slowly buy models , not be able to play real games at all[when your friends who started meq armies can] get to 1500pts in half a year and find out that A models you bought do not make a good army B you dont like the game play of the army C 'cool" models dont make good armies D half a year is half the time a normal dude "plays" w40k . E your friends who are playing w40k for a 4-5 months have armies twice the size in points and your still losining the arms race[specialy as you bought some models that are never used].

If make a w40k army for the first time in his life then it is better both for him and the time he may want to spent playing this game , to focus on units that are good and which he will use. Trueborn and warriors in vernoms , are they bad units ? no . the tri dark lance skimers , will he not use them ? he will. will he not need 2 non venom transports ? he will , probably more if he wants to play more then 1500pts.

And as net listing goes and inabilty to play.What is better to get a bike [you never seen one before] and learn to drive it , or get a back of random parts of bikes, cars and quads and try to build something out it and then try to ride it . Net lists arent harder to use then non net lists[not that it requires net listing to notice what is good and what is bad in any dex] , but more forgiving . I mean what is next telling someone who starts that he can build an army out of any models he likes ?

With this post you seem like you're somewhat competitive and with that, to me, it implies that you get your kicks and fun in winning over collecting and painting.

There is nothing wrong with that, but not everyone who is into the hobby is like that.

A. models you bought do not make a good army
And maybe a good army does not appeal to me in terms of collecting and painting. With that, perhaps some people rather play more casual and try out different units. And especially with an army like (dark) Eldar, there's a lot of specialty units. Buying models in general shouldn't be a full on study/mathhammer... at least to me it shouldn't.

B. you dont like the game play of the army
That's something you can partially decide at the start. If I want a fast army, there's a few ways I can go. Want a 'defensive" army, there's ways to go. If I decide on that and figure out it's not my style afterall, sure... my loss. Besides, with armies that have more "specialty" units you can tailor it a bit to your liking... sure Dark eldar will never be a 2+ save terminator army, but I'm sure you can work around it and not pin down a exclusive way of playing for your army. Is it good then? Maybe not... but I'll point back to point A.

C. 'cool" models dont make good armies
Probably not, but they make up for me even want to get into the hobby. If it wasn't about looks and cool models we can just as well pick up pieces from a chessgame and put them on a 25mm base.

Besides, if I don't like the models I either convert them from something I do like, or just not play them... I'm not competitive, so I rather play for fun and spend some time with people who have that same mindset.

D. half a year is half the time a normal dude "plays" w40k
So, "normal dudes" play 40k for a year? And then? They quit? Is there a social protocol I'm missing... if I engage in 40k, I'm either uberhardcore and play for 12+ months, or I bail out after a year.

I'm not hardcore (I consider myself normal in terms of playing tabletop games) and I stuck around for quite some time (granted I had a break in between), but it still adds up to about 5 years total.

E. your friends who are playing w40k for a 4-5 months have armies twice the size in points and your still losining the arms race[specialy as you bought some models that are never used].

1. Why buy models you never use? Because they're... "not good"? For anything not competitive the argument of "not good" is a bit moot I guess, you're playing a game for fun... and if you have your fun in being competitive... just sayin it again; not everyone is like that.

2. So basically I have to spend just as much money and time as friends whom I like to play against? Why is that? This even seems that the amount of money you spend on a hobby is a competition... and I beg to differ that the winner is the one who made a fun list to play for cheap and/or the one who had most fun in assembling, painting and converting the army to match what he wants to do with it.

But hey... what do I know... I'm not competitive, I'll play my games whilst having a few beers, and I'm having more fun playing silly lists that are not efficient, but a blast to play. And I think I'm not the only one

[The Shadow King]

If you want a really fast army then you probably want your troops in transports, probably wyches as they are generally more mobile than gunship type builds of warriors in vehicles. Jetbikes are very nippy as are all the Heavy Support vehicles. Buy whatever you like the look of, either in models or rules and/or can afford. Try and make sure you have the minimum requirement for whatever sort of mission you might face, ie an HQ, couple of Troops and one each of Elite/Fast Attack/Heavy Support minimum. Start small and if possible use proxies before getting the models, to see if you like how the unit plays.