6th ed rumours, your reqction and GW response

[DrLove42]

Ok ground rules;

-This is not a place to discussthe rumours. Those are elsewhere.

Also an in b4 "theyre only rumours" and "dont take them out of context". I know both of those. assume in thus thread they are real, and the rest of the rule book sucks as much (thats my opinion is yours different?)

As previously stated my thoughts are they suck a lot. I think all my armies are really gonna suffer until they get a massive FAQ or a new book (except wyches with haywire grenades. They suddenly become awesome)

The comments on other threads, the blogroll and their comments, and that of the BOLS front page suggest a widespread dislike of the rumours (and ive not even gone close to the swamplands of Warseer and Dakka). For some its the fluff, for others the rules. But othrr than one or two posts saying dont overreact (good advice) there are vey few good comments about them.

Do GW follow any thing online? We know Jes has posted on Warseer before but do they see the leaks and the responses and guage a reaction off them?

And if 6th falls because its widely disliked what would GW do? Power through it and accept a massive loss in fanbase in 40k and a rise in competitors for 5 years. Or hurry another new edition within 1 to 2 years

[Chuck777]

They could use rumors and leaks to guide their mechanics decisions but, at this point, it wouldn't do them much good since the books are most likely going to the printer right now, if they are not there already.

We cannot judge these rumors in a vacuum. For all we know, 6th edition is a MAJOR re-write of the game and any basis from which we could objectively judge the rumors simply does not exist. Regardless, expect every army to have a very large FAQ update that re-balances codecies for the new edition.

I'd also argue that the silent majority will take any and all changes in stride and continue gaming regardless of what the fanbois and internet-based armchair quarterbacks have to say.

GW would not release a new edition any sooner than 4 years after 6th edition drops. The problem is that there is no guarentee that any one who left 40k would come back if they changed editions quickly but they definitely would be alienating those players that did stick around by requiring (read forcing) them to purchase two 70+ dollar books in less than 2 years. For good or bad, the edition will be what it will be.

[the jeske]

I tell you one thing if someone would actualy post full rules for a codex or any of the WFB/W40k editions on any of the english boards , then the post would be gone ultra fast.

[Wildcard]

Rules:
Many i like, yet more i dislike..
Basically, more we get closer to the leaked 6th ed playtesting rules - the better (with some tweaks to it that is). More we get to the contradicting rules we have been hearing lately - the worse it gets.

Fluff:
I like the advancement in the story. Even though its been good 5 years or so, it kinda feels the same than watching 1st part of a movie trilogy 5 years in a row waiting for the next part (and advancement in the story).

Fluff rumors that i've read in no particular order:
- Emperor lets go of his mortally wounded body: This is probably the best advancement they could choose. Emperor will still be around (and able to manifest in some body through warp - similar what the daemons do - at some point in the future). Emperor will be fighting invisible war in the warp, and all kinds of saints / emperors champions / visions granted by the Emperor will be more "believable" since its official that He is back in the game.

This is way better than the option for Emperor to just wake up on the Throne and decide "its payback time", after mourning for the loss of his loyal sons.

Also, Emperor being 'in the empyrean', it is possible to bring back Russ "For the wolftime", and Khan from the webways (time in those progress differently, and there are still daemon primarchs alive to justify the balance of the incoming of loyal primarchs). Not the fact that it should be so, but it broadens up the possibilities instead of hitting the dead end.

- Chaos is pressing on the advance:
About time. The most hard boiled astartes there are, backed up by numerous gods, have been laying low for a ridiculously long time (although, again, time is different in the warp - but still...).

- Tau are the key to save realspace from the demonic / chaos invasion:
Not sure about this. Maybe a bit too much "innocent child saves the day"- type of a story arc in my taste. But i may well grow accustomed to it. And, there could have been worse hero-races imo. Only thing is that they really need to stop the "for the greater good"- exterminatus babbling. If they are aware of their role in the universe, they should grow up a little :)

[eldargal]

I think it is all bollocks and people are making stuff up or being lied to. This is good, in my opinion, as 90% of the rumours are awful.

[Mr.Pickelz]

With BOK dude asking people to post rumors before he did, he opened the floodgate for people to just start writing the most random stuff. Things that may have credence, but overall are stupid and completely untrue.

[Denied]

With BOK dude asking people to post rumors before he did, he opened the floodgate for people to just start writing the most random stuff. Things that may have credence, but overall are stupid and completely untrue.

And of course you know this because you know the truth. So please enlighten us Mr. Pickelz what is the truth?

BoK has been right about everything from Grey Knights forward, he is the only one with what appears to be a legitimate source. Where as every other rumor monger has been dis-proven. Interestingly have you noticed how a lot of the "Other rumors" match very closely to things BoK posted at a later date? This gives them credence as well.

As far as GW is concerned they don't care about the tournament scene or competitive play with their minis. This has been evident by what they did with Fantasy 8th ed, pulling out of the tournament circuit, and all these rumored 6th ed stuff. It makes the game sound like a mix of old 2nd ed rules and Fantasy 8th ed, both of which are terrible for tournaments.

I foresee people still playing 40K and buying 40K minis due to how much most of us have invested at this point, but I expect just like Reece from Front Line Gaming there will be a mass exodus from 40k Tournaments. This saddens me.

[eldargal]

Clever, 'right from everything Grey Knights forward', conveniently excluding the time frame where TastyTaste was wrong.:rolleyes: He was quite wrong with the Tyranid rumours.

No rumourmonger has a perfect record, some are better than others. TastyTaste has been reliable lately but that doesn't mean everything he says is gospel truth and the same applies to every other rumourmonger.

These rumours seem absurd because they are seem to be based on flawed knowledge of the background, 40k rules, 40k history, WFB rules and GWs general approch to the games systems. Every damn edition there are rumours that this edition will be more like x edition or will be closer to 40k/WFB whatever and that the background will be advanced. Yet it doesn't happen. So there is plenty of rational reasoning not to take these rumours as accurate.

I don't give a damn about the tournament scene, one of the most unhealthy influences on the hobby there is. What I care about are solid, fun rules and sensible background and both these seem to be being discarded going by the rumours. I have more faith in GWs desire to make money than fanboy obsession with moving the story further and 2nd ed being a golden age so I'm going to assume they are utter nonsense until PROVEN otherwise by GW. Not the word of an internet rumourmonger and some of his fanboys.

[MrGiggles]

We'll know one way or the other in a couple of months, I suppose.

My thought is that, while not perfect, we've got it pretty good in 5th right now. Some changes for 6th would definitely be nice, but I don't think a complete rebuild is necessary.

Pretty much what Denied said though. With 6000 points of Orks and 2000 points of Sisters, I've got a significant (for me anyway) investment in the hobby in general and this game in particular. I'm really not going anywhere.

[Denied]

A) not a BoK fanboy by any means, but his current track record on rumors speaks for its self is my point. Additionally other rumors, as posted on BoLS and Faeit212 at or before the time Tasty Taste was posting his line up. To name a few: Mysterious terrain, Hull Points, and the Chaos "Dragon Flyer"

I love you lets act like an Ostrich plan though. I personally love hiding my head in the sand when the world isn't what I want it to be. I believe its the same philosophy that religious fundamentalist use. I especially love how you don't care about the tournament scene. You do realize that tournaments are where games like warhammer develop interest in their games right? Its the same philosophy that TCG's use to drive revenue for their products. Effectively how do you force people into buying the new editions and new rules and not just playing with their old models forever. Sure you can make the models look nicer and to some extent this works because every now and again a casual player is like oh what the hell I'll splurge and by a new box of Necron Immortals.

That model wont bring in continuous money though. In order for the money to be generated to keep a company like that alive you need people to be buying entire new armies every couple of years and in order for that to happen you need to give them a reason to. Hence every couple of years you change the rules to your system so that the armies they used before our out of date and they need a new one to be competitive. Well they need something to be competitive against and that's why you have tournaments. Give them a reason for why they need to remain on top of the game, because they have a chance to win more box's of little toy soldiers when they go to these events.

Say what you will about tournaments and WAAC players, but they are the honest to god revenue source of GW and the reason why it is able to produce a game like WFB and WH40K.

[eldargal]

Sorry, but you are just making nonsense up. Tournaments are tiny fraction of the hobby, and most people get in thorugh friendly games in GW stores and games clubs. You know what the biggest tell is? GW doesn't give a damn about the tournament scene either, they say as much. They tolerate it, nothing more.

I'm not sticking my head in the sand, I'm saying these rumours are nonsensical, contradictory and are based on popular fanboy misconceptions of rules and background. This isn't sticking my head in the sand, this is stating facts inconvenient to the people who want to believe in this rumours.

GW drives sales by producing new models, they are first and fore most a model producer as they themselves say. That rules drive sales is another piece of nonsenss made up by those obsessed with rules. In other words, tournament players and rules lawyers GW doesn't give a damn about. They release a new edition, they release a lot of new models and they release new units with new codices so peopel HAVE to buy new models if they want to use them.

So again, you're just making nonsense up. It is a common problem with tournament players who like to try and think their narrow little window on the hobby is the most important one. Anything to help bear the pain of playing a ruleset designed by a company who are quite open about the fact they think you are doing it wrong.

This isn't to say thre is anything wrong with tournaments or that GW should completely ignore the tournament scene, but they won't do more than they are now except perhaps a seperate, stripped down 'compettive play' rule section if some of the rumours are accurate. The idea, though, that GW would base en entire edition on what a tiny fraction of the playerbase want is simply egotistical bollocks.

Also, off topic, because the irrelevence of the tournament scene to the hobby overall has no bearing on the likely fictitious nature of these rumours.

[TheCastigator]

GW drives sales by producing new models, they are first and fore most a model producer as they themselves say. That rules drive sales is another piece of nonsenss made up by those obsessed with rules. In other words, tournament players and rules lawyers GW doesn't give a damn about. They release a new edition, they release a lot of new models and they release new units with new codices so peopel HAVE to buy new models if they want to use them.

Thanks for your commentary, Eldargal. You're completely right. The notion that tourneys drive sales is utter garbage.

The other thing I would like to say is that we can't look at the rumors in the context of 5th. We know that the game system will be overhauled to some degree and to say adding in a sand and shoot attack prior to getting assaulted won't work, because it would have screwed up 5th edition or wouldn't work in the "meta".

Once this book comes out, 5th edition will be in GW's trash bin. Until we actually see it, we should reserve judgement. Getting all internet rage is pointless. 8th edition Fantasy is great, but it isn't 40k. I would assume that we will see a few "streamlining" mechanics make the jump, such as premeasuring, which is awesome, and some common items, sure; but randomly generated powers, I have my doubts.

If you want to look for real clues for 6th edition, take a look at the Necrons codex, there are a ton of hints in there (See: preferred enemy on destroyers, deathmarks' entry).

[the jeske]

Tournaments are tiny fraction of the hobby, and most people get in thorugh friendly games in GW stores and games clubs. You know what the biggest tell is? GW doesn't give a damn about the tournament scene either, they say as much. They tolerate it, nothing more.
that is true for what US and UK . main land europe doesnt have a wide web of clubs and most of the shops are FLGS and not GW ones [with everything that comes with it . not only GW stuff being played . size of shops . in some cases having to pay for using tables etc]. Also I do not understand the tournament sceen part. Yes not everyone plays in tournaments [because of the cost to get to more then a few], but the armies played around in europe do look very much like the ones used in tournaments . In fact out of all the armies I have seen in 5th ed that couldnt be classed as tournament ones was one FW army [elysians , count as'ing as normal IG] and one army done by a French painter that wasnt realy legal [a bretonian one]. I played a lot in holland , germany , been to a few shops in france and italy and I know how eastern europe looks like . If anything drives the sales it is the tournament sceen , if an army is seen as week/bad it has lower sales[nids for example] . If the market was driven by the "cool" factor for the casual player then all armies would have more or less the same sales .

[isotope99]

I'd like to see more benefits for monstrous creatures, they seem to have had it pretty hard with the profusion of high strength/poisoned multi shot weapons.

5th edition is pretty popular so massive changes to the game mechanics seem unlikely to me.

[Tynskel]

Yeah, its pretty silly that tournament players think the they drive the sales. The last tourney I went to was ard boyZ! 2 years ago!
I, however, didn't stop purchasing models.

I have a harpy (hive tyrant conversion) on my desk!

[isotope99]

I get the impression that tournament players spend more per person but there are much fewer of them and they are more likely to speak out.

Wouldn't be the first time a vocal minority get their way though, happens all the time in the 'real' world.

[Brusilov]

I completely share Eldargal's vision of both the Hobby and what drives GW. You just have to look at the fact, that with few exceptions, each new iteration of a Codex brings in a few new goodies/units that are just too cool and/or too good to pass up.

The tournament players are nothing more than the loud minority. I have better things to do than obsess over rules and dissect the latest Codex, mainly building and painting minis and getting a friendly game at my club. I believe that vast majority of players are like that.

One thing that should be taken into account, IMHO, is that GW will shy away from a rules overhaul that would cause the whole line of Codices to be obsolete. And GW will avoid that at all cost. The last time they tried with 3rd Ed., it led to a string of poorly written and fluff starved codices...

And, as far as the fluff changes go, aside from the fact that, as mentioned by Eldargal, it smells of nothing more than fanboy obsession to make the Space Marines into the good guys they most certainly are not. IMHO GW maintains a purposefully static background that serves as a backdrop for our games, or if you're of the mind to do so, allows you to write your own story in some corner of the massive 40k galaxy.

GW has completely turned its back on advancing the fluff in recent years. For example, Abaddon's 13th Black Crusade is reduced to a footnote and IIRC in Fantasy there are also next to no reference to the Storm of Chaos. Having discussed this at some length with both game designers and Alan Merett (chief of IP or somesuch) at last year's Games Day, GW is more interesting in expending the existing universe (adding units, races and places) than advancing the story.
Phil Kelly summarised the concept to me in these words : "40k is a universe set 2 minutes before the apocalypse." But said apocalypse never actually takes place, at least in the offficial fluff (there is no stopping you from playing the Ragna'ork or the Rhana Dandra if you so please).

[miteyheroes]

I'm not sticking my head in the sand, I'm saying these rumours are nonsensical, contradictory and are based on popular fanboy misconceptions of rules and background. This isn't sticking my head in the sand, this is stating facts inconvenient to the people who want to believe in this rumours.

I don't think anyone wants to believe that 6th ed is going to follow those ****ty rumours. I dread the idea, and fully agree that the rumours of 6th sound contradictory and misconceived... But I still suspect that they might be right. Ye gods I hope not, though.

[ksoh75]

We know GW isn't into Tournies, did they not just pull one of the biggest tournies at least here in the states?

God rest Ard Boyz........

Our local area host several tournies during the year. That's were we do the most playing.


As for rumors, that's what they are. I'm enjoying the die hards pop a vein over this.

The game is what it is....you love it, you play it....simple as that. Game companies can't make it fair for everyone.....but I can garuntee this.....90% of you *****ing will stick around and keep playing, it's the plastic.....you can't get enough of it.......

[elmir]

I remember 5th edition being the worst edition ever when it was first released. At least... if you read the forums around those times...

It's usually the vocal minority that cries when their cheese is moved when a new rulesset cycles in. I'm liking the rumours, but then again... I also quite like how fantasy plays (excepts for the crazy 6th spells in some lores, if they can just avoid those OTT things, it'll be golden imo).

I had a discussion about the rumours with my local GW manager and he said he thinks/hopes that 6th edition will make the game a little more "fuzzy" and less "cold and calculated". I kind of agree with him. It's not like the game will ever become totally without tactics/strategy... And if the new rumoured fliers are any indication of the direction they would like to take the game in (big models with faster gameplay and lots of movement instead of stationary parking lots), I'm in!

[khsrio621]

Odd fluff aside, I like what I see of the rumors.
I play Tyranids, so being able to assault off of deep strike is a godsend for some underused units like raveners. I look forward to seeing the meta-game get shaken up.

[bfmusashi]

The idea that almost every proper Grey Knight unit can deep strike and then assault is fairly frightening for power armor armies. It means nothing but more drop pod Ironclads coming for my Guard though >.<

[DarkLink]

Not Purifiers, though.

[The Shadow King]

Personally I hope that most of the recent rumours are true. Allies means proper daemons with my chaos marines, and random charges makes sense with pre-measuring. I'd rather fail a charge on a dice roll than because I misjudged the distance by half an inch, at least I can blame the dice then :) Random psychic powers sound good as well if they do it like fantasy. You would always have the 'signature spell' as a choice so could plan somewhat, and a large selection of random powers adds some more variety to each game. Stops staleness and cheesiness without making psykers weak. Just as long as they don't go back to the old 2nd edition combat system as well, I think all will be well.