Help needed: Vehicle: Obscured target, 3+ cover save

[Wildcard]

So, as the title says. On page 62 on the rulebook under the "Vechiles and cover - obscured targets" it's stated that it may rarely happen that the firer cannot see any part of the facing they are in (front, side or rear), but they can still see another facing on the target vehicle.. blah blah.. but to represent such an extremely angled shot, the vehicle receives a 3+ cover save...

Now, i know its really clearly stated there what it means, but my problem is more that how to determine the facing, and if the shot is going to be "extremely angled shot"..

I know theres a guideline to think of a X from corner to corner of a vehicle (and to determine facing just to increase the length of X up till the firers position).

We have never encountered this situation (atleast we have had known we've faced it). So its a bit confusing.

Does this mean that if enemy unit fires at a stormraven(or any other flyer) from the front and targets its wings, the flyer would get its 3+ save due to the wings being on the side arc of the imaginary X?

Other situation is that if two equal size tanks with sponsons would be head to head (due to ramming or any other insignificant manouvre). Now, their sponsons can only draw line of sight to the side arcs, even with the tank itself clearly being in the front arc. Again a place for the 3+ cover save?

I am looking examples to clarify this more than anything else, yet if you feel you can contribute by some other means, feel free to try and help me out :)

-Wildcard

[DarkLink]

What facing the unit is in is based on the location of the unit in its entirety, not on what facing the shooting unit targets. You draw an x, roughly corner to corner, and which quadrant the firing unit is in is the facing it is shooting at. If the unit cannot see that particular facing, but can see another, it can shoot but the vehicle gets a 3+ cover save.

With units like Valkyries or Wave Serpents, it's kind of hard to tell exactly where you should draw the X for the facings. Try drawing a box around the vehicle to find the corners. A box drawn around a Wave Serpent is slightly longer than it is wide, so the front and rear arc is a little under 90 degrees, while the side arcs are slightly over 90 degrees. Really, it's a judgement call.




In your second situation, the sponsors can probably see the front at least a little, but it's your call.

[Tynskel]

If all you can see is a wing...
This just sounds to me like the vehicle should get a 3+ cover save anyhow, because 1) the target is obscured, 2) in this example, the angle is difficult.

[isotope99]

+1 to darklink's method

1. Determine which quadrant the majority of your unit is in
2. determine what they can see and which quadrant that part is in.
3. apply rules as stated.

In your examples I would say yes to botrh questions.

The wing is in the side quadrant
The sponson is in the side quadrant

But as stated you can't target a particular vehicle part so the relevant facing of the vehicle must be completely obscured or unreachable based on the fire arc of the weapon.