1500 for Local Tourney

[PhantomPhoenix]

There's a local tournament next month and I'm trying to finish out my list to get it ready. I have 2 possible lists that I plan on running, the first is if I am unable to get my last few Oblits. In the first list I'm still not 100% certain on the Terminators, they've always performed, but at 235 points for the full unit they seem to be a bit of a waste. My second list I'm not happy with the Zerkers, running 10 of them seems a little bit overkill, but I can't find another way to spend the last 40 or so points. Any help with either list will be greatly appreciated.

LIST 1
HQ:
Daemon Prince - Wings, MoN, Warptime - 175


Elite:
Terminatorsx5 - CombiMeltax4, IoT - 235
Champ - CF, Hvy Flamer


Troops:
Plague Marinesx7 - Meltax2, Personal Icon - 286
Champ - PF
Rhino - ExA, CombiMelta

Plague Marinesx7 - Meltax2, Personal Icon - 286
Champ - PF
Rhino - ExA, CombiMelta

Khorne Berzerkersx9 - Personal Icon - 294
Champ - PF
Rhino - ExA, CombiMelta

Summoned Lesser Daemonsx5 - 65


Heavy:
Defiler - CCW, Heavy Flamer - 150


Total:
1491


LIST 2
HQ:
Daemon Prince - Wings, MoN, Warptime - 175


Troops:
Plague Marinesx7 - Meltax2, Personal Icon - 286
Champ - PF
Rhino - ExA, CombiMelta

Plague Marinesx7 - Meltax2, Personal Icon - 286
Champ - PF
Rhino - ExA, CombiMelta

Khorne Berzerkersx10 - Personal Icon - 315
Champ - PF
Rhino - ExA, CombiMelta

Summoned Lesser Daemonsx5 - 65

Summoned Lesser Daemonsx5 - 65


Heavy:
Obliteratorsx2 - 150

Obliteratorsx2 - 150


Total:
1492

[DarkLink]

I think I like the first list a little better.

Don't worry about how expensive your Terminators are. If they perform, they perform. And as a Grey Knight player a naked 5 man terminator squad is 245pts, and I take them (albiet in a land raider) regularly.

The Terminators perform a similar roll to one unit of the obliterators, but are tougher to kill and better in close combat. Though obliterators have lots of guns, I think the terminators do a better job of dropping in, killing stuff and taking up the enemy's attention.

That pretty much leaves you with a choice between a second unit of obliterators and the defiler. This is is something you should probably decide on, as both are good choices and which is better depends heavily on your playstyle.

[Chumbalaya]

I like the 2nd more, Oblits are nigh mandatory in Chaos lists because they're so good (and other Chaos Heavies are so bleh).

You can stand to lose the Berzerkers though, a 2nd DP or more Oblits would probably suit you better. Sticking combat Troops in a Rhino just doesn't seem like a good idea since you have to stand around twiddling your thumbs for a turn before doing anything fun.

You can also lose the extra armor on your Rhinos, 15 points just isn't worth it.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[PhantomPhoenix]

Chumbalaya, I usually prefer to run my zerkers in a LR, but at the points it just doesn't seem cost effective. Also, I really don't like running with less than 3 real troop choices. I hesitate to include the Lesser Daemons as troops since, depending on luck, they may not be able to come in or have to come in somewhere that does not benefit me. As for the oblits and DP, I will at most have 4 Oblits and 1 DP at the time of the tournament, I won't be able to get more until after. That being the case what would you recommend me doing with the zerkers?

[Chumbalaya]

Hmm, if you had any Plague Marines I'd recommend them. Tough, melta happy Troops are always worth fielding.

If you have any other armor that would be nice too, even if it's just a Predator.

[PhantomPhoenix]

I'm using all my plague marines currently, granted I converted them so I could always try to throw together a few more. I do like my zerkers for dealing with horde quickly, but their not the only guys that can do that. As for a pred, I do have one(las/hvybolter) with broken sponsons. Would you think juggling points to keep the zerkers and stick them in a LR would achieve the same effect?

[Chumbalaya]

Maybe, just don't lose out on any tank busting capabilities. Bringing a Land Raider at 1500 is a bit of a gamble too, just make sure you've got adequate protection and backups in case it goes boom.

[avatar8481]

Standard Chaos construction is, I assume still:

Dual melta PM troops in rhinos

Termicide triple melta elite units for tank killing

obliterators

MoN/warptime or MoS/lash Demon princes.

My understanding was that that was the build that 'worked' and that everything else was sub-optimal.

[PhantomPhoenix]

Yeah, I'm well aware of the "best list" but imho I feel a bit bad throwing that at my friends. I'm also a total sucker for Zerkers :D. I've updated the list a little, dropping the rhino upgrades and lesser daemons and 2 zerkers in list 2 for Termicide and a Greater Daemon

[DarkLink]

Greater Daemons are fantastic. As long as you can get it into combat, it will make its points back (including the points of whatever summoned it). When I played chaos, I used a suicide melta bike squad with a sargent to summon him, and he regularly make up his and the entire bike squad's points.

A single land raider in 1500 points isn't a problem (I play pure GK so I take at least two), but loosing PotMS hurts chaos land raiders a lot. You don't get half the shooting a loyalist land raider would get when you move, so the chaos land raider is much better if it holds a counter assault unit in it (plus that keeps it out of melta range better). Let the enemy come to you and make sure you get the assault in order to maximize the LR's shooting. But if you have a more agressive playstyle, then the LR probably isn't as worth it (though our local Chaos player usually has a LR with a Lord and Berzerkers in it, and uses it to good effect).

Getting a second DP and more oblits is really never a bad idea.

[PhantomPhoenix]

Ok, the tourney was last weekend, and the list I ended up going with was

HQ:
Daemon Prince - Wings, MoN, Warptime - 175


Elite:
Terminatorsx3 - CombiMeltax3 - 105


Troops:
Plague Marinesx7 - Meltax2, Personal Icon - 261
Champ - PF
Rhino

Plague Marinesx7 - Meltax2, Personal Icon - 261
Champ - PF
Rhino

Khorne Berzerkersx8 - Personal Icon - 248
Champ - PF, Meltabombs
Rhino


Heavy:
Obliteratorsx2 - 150

Obliteratorsx2 - 150

Vindicator - DP - 145


Total:
1500

I ended up coming in 3rd out of 12. If I'd made one different choice at the end of my third game I could have tied for second, but I'll remember that for next time. Overall, everything performed very well and ran exactly as I'd hoped. Luckily with all the other threats on the field, Vindi/DP/Oblits, my Zerkers always got to pop out and play. I appreciate all the input you guys provided. It really helped with the final list.