More Chaos Rumors

[celestialatc]

Blood of Kittens posted more about Chaos Space marines today. The site is still not loading properly but here is the Google cache for the text:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2012/04/26/network-news-new-csm-codex-rumors/&hl=en&prmd=imvns&strip=1

And here is the text if no one can get into that:




WARNING: My last post caused my server to crash (traffic overload). I have fixed the problem temporally, as a side effect the site will load slowly. Only so many people can view the contents at a time so if you cannot get in try again later. If you cut and paste the contents below and put on another site, please leave this warning so others understand what is going on.

It is about time we get some information on the new Chaos Space Marine codex. Before we get right into let us start out with some ground rules.

The Chaos Space Marine codex is the only 40k codex for this year. It is not going to be divided into two codexes or anything special. This is not the return 3.5 codex everyone has been wanting this is more a clean up than anything else.

With that said let us get started.

Troops choices will be Chaos Space Marines and Cultists
All Cult Marines are Elites
No new Special Characters
Special Characters will unlock Cult Marines as troops (Kharn for Berserkers and so on)
Typhus makes Cultists into Zombies
Chaos Dreadnaught is removed and replaced with a new unit (like how pariahs were replaced with Lychguard)
CSM now get a Flyer a Mechanical Chaos Dragon (model is done will be part of initial release)
Lesser and Greater Demons are gone
Spawn replaced by “Fell Beast”
I feel like I am missing something…

Oh yeah…

Almost Forgot...

Rules for Traitor Guard are in!

As we get closer I will try to get us specific rules and wargear, but for now this is all I got with the Rumor Lock down still in partial effect.

[HsojVvad]

Oh what to believe, what to believe. Was this person dead wrong about Sisters of Battle?

[DrBored]

Definitely interesting. I think that the SC's work the way a lot of people expected.

Sad that there are no new SC's, especially since so much fluff has been written since the last book. Just a touch skeptical on that. After all, how are we going to represent Iron Warriors, Night Lords, and Alpha Legion? Last thing I want is another Black Legion book.

Very interested to see what this mechanical dragon is all about.

[Kawauso]

Not sure what to make of these rumours - particularly the Dreadnought bit.

I mean, comparing it to the shift from Pariah > Lychguard for Necrons is like saying they're 'gone, but not really' - and I have no idea what this could mean for Chaos Dreadnoughts.

I really hope that the Elite slot for such a book isn't too crowded...I'd like to finally get my Thousand Sons army together and in so doing have plenty of room for Thousand Sons (actually worth taking), Dreads and a squad of Terminators.

[Dalleron]

Those rumours sound pretty whack, and not in a good way.

No dreadnaught. No more spawn. That just isn't right.

What do you believe with all the conflicting rumours?

[celestialatc]

Those rumours sound pretty whack, and not in a good way.

No dreadnaught. No more spawn. That just isn't right.

What do you believe with all the conflicting rumours?

I agree, I really don't want to believe this. There can been so many rumors about new characters and to have one so close that says they is all wrong is just depressing.

I am really looking forward to a colorful Chaos codex and I would be disappointed if it's just more of the same.

[fuzzbuket]

way lets remove classic units and replace them with units that make no sence other than 'its big and mandatory so throw us money'

and please GW no more FOC shennanigins, make it more like kantor 'if you take typhus he comes with 1-30 zombies at 10pts each, these are scoring units' instead of 'take 1 typhus and spam zombies for objective grabbing and mandatory troops only'

[Bigred]

Other tongues are wagging behind the scenes with clarification, and caveats, but fundamentally confirming most of this is correct. Expect to see more details in the days ahead.

[DrLove42]

I dont buy it at all? only 1 codex? No dreadnought? Mechanical dragon? Watering down the chaos marines book to include traitor guard?

No i dont buy it. And i Hope im right. If not 2012 and the chaos book are both going to suck balls.

Seriously? No more dreads? Why not just ret-con the entire heresy while your at it

[DarkLink]

Oh what to believe, what to believe. Was this person dead wrong about Sisters of Battle?

No, quite the opposite. He's the guy who's right about most of his stuff. I know him, and I knew some of what was in the Sisters codex weeks before the WD came out from talking with him. He's been pretty good about the GK and Necron codices as well.

[eldargal]

Yet other rumourmongers with equal reputations of accuracy are talking about a new Chaos dreadnought model.

I've little interest in Chaos so I don't care one way or another but I'm a little skeptical of these.

Of course it could simply be the Chaos Dreadnought is being renamed, as the Eldar dreadnought was renamed Wraithlord. Exactly the same thing, just a different name.

[L192837465]

Yet other rumourmongers with equal reputations of accuracy are talking about a new Chaos dreadnought model.

I've little interest in Chaos so I don't care one way or another but I'm a little skeptical of these.

Of course it could simply be the Chaos Dreadnought is being renamed, as the Eldar dreadnought was renamed Wraithlord. Exactly the same thing, just a different name.

I'm hoping this. Fully 1/2 the FW Chaos things for sale will be fully useless if not.

It'd be cool if it was a bound deamon instead of a marine. That'd be sweet. Deamnaught? dreadon? Kill-Face McGee?


I'm going with Kill-Face McGee.

[DrLove42]

I would buy a whole army just to use a kill face mcgee

[DarkLink]

Yet other rumourmongers with equal reputations of accuracy are talking about a new Chaos dreadnought model.


You mean a new model like the forgeworld kinda-dreadnought-but-not thing? Just speculation on my part, but that would explain any discrepancy.

Anyways, I know, for a fact, that TasteyTaste knows stuff. Like any other source, it's not always 100% accurate, but as a whole he has a very good track record.

[eldargal]

Well FW keep saying there is no link between their design studio and the GW design studio anymore, so I doubt we can read much more into the Decimator than that. What I mean is we will see an ew plastic Chaos dreadnought, but it will have a new name. StabbyBloodCoffin or KillFace McGee (though personally I'd prefer StabbyFace McNab)

[Corvus-Master-of-The-4th]

Well FW keep saying there is no link between their design studio and the GW design studio anymore, so I doubt we can read much more into the Decimator than that. What I mean is we will see an ew plastic Chaos dreadnought, but it will have a new name. StabbyBloodCoffin or KillFace McGee (though personally I'd prefer StabbyFace McNab)

I really hope that is right... Because removing dreads for me is Games Workshop taking too many liberties (I know it's their fluff, but still) with well grounded fluff, I mean there is at least 10 Legion Dreads on Forgeworld :(

[ElectricPaladin]

StabbyBloodCoffin or KillFace McGee (though personally I'd prefer StabbyFace McNab)

In light of the trend towards larger models, how about Big McLargeHuge?

[DrLove42]

In light of the trend towards larger models, how about Big McLargeHuge?

Not violent enough. How about "blood splosion mclarge"

[newdigitaltau]

I might be able to see where GW might be going if said rumors are true.

1: I would think of Chaos pretty much getting a Dreadknight equivalent

My thought, and this is based on GK's alone, is that GW wants to have a more combat looking robot and a more shooty looking robot. I mean the dreadnought is pure win on shooty so much that no one that I know of really plays a CC oriented GK dreadnaught and the Dreadknight is almost always geared for CC

2. They are prepping to make Chaos Daemons a more army of themselves. Removing the Daemons from Chaos armies make it more of a "pure" faction to play. Where as Chaos legions will be just tainted humans with chaos powers but still rely heavily on their "human" technology.

3. Unlocking choices as troops or making you take a SC for a unit is not unheard of now and is most likely how everything is going to go from now on. It does Force you to take a 'themed' army but it does do what GW does best and guide (albeit with a forceful hand) to sell models. It works well with GK. So there is not to say that it doesn't mean that there isn't hope that the SC isn't so point costly. I hate to again point to GK but inquisitors don't cost very much and are required for henchmen. Could be the same for Chaos.

Anyways that's my 2 cents I'm probably wrong but who knows anymore?

and I'd say bigmacdaddyboomMcgee

[newdigitaltau]

Yet other rumourmongers with equal reputations of accuracy are talking about a new Chaos dreadnought model.



A new dreadnought model may not mean it can't be called something else. It could be just renamed and not just remodeled then everyone is right!

[Kawauso]

Crap I didn't notice the part about Daemons being gone.

If that pans out, Daemon Princes had better still be in there...I have plans for converting a Tzeentchian prince from the plastic Daemon Prince kit and that fancy new WFB Griffon the Empire has.

[newdigitaltau]

Wait wait wait...

Grey Knights dread KNIGHT
Chaos DRAGON?!?!?!?!

Bhahahahahahahaha

[Kawauso]

I dunno that I buy the dragon thing, personally...

Sounds kind of silly.

We'll see, though. 40k is full of silly, and it can be made to work (Thunderwolves).

[Bigred]

A note folks...

Tasty didn't say there was no chaos dreadnoughts in existence, as there is a new model coming out in the boxed set.

He said there was no "Chaos Dreadnought" unit in the codex. I assume that like the example given of Pariah/Lychguard, there will be a newly named unit that Chaos Dreadnought will fit into. Probably something like "Daemon Engines"...

[Goochman]

I don't do Chaos but I know GW, they like to play with the minds of the fans before releasing things.

Brother G

[Kawauso]

With their silence?

I think it's us fans playing with one anothers' minds and imaginations during the rumours leading up to a release that gets everybody whipped into frenzied speculation and debate.

[Goochman]

With their silence?

I think it's us fans playing with one anothers' minds and imaginations during the rumours leading up to a release that gets everybody whipped into frenzied speculation and debate.
LOL, yep, silence is bless....
See all the chaos it has created? Buahahahahaha >:-)

Brother G

[Kataklysm]

LOL, yep, silence is bless....
See all the chaos it has created? Buahahahahaha >:-)

Brother G

*Bliss*

sorry...


Anyway, I dont believe for a second that GW will eliminate the chaos dread. It is absolutley against the established fluff. It would be too much of a drastic change to the whole story line and they know it. This is simply a case of rumor trolling. However this "dragon" model that people are talking about sounds like a new defiler type construct, just something new that the dark adeptus has managed to fart out in the thousands of years spent dicking around in the eye of terror. And if it looks anything like this (http://www.google.com/imgres?q=steampunk+dragon+model&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=1152&bih=715&tbm=isch&tbnid=cDEbJHGEL180zM:&imgrefurl=http://airshipambassador.wordpress.com/2011/01/12/steam-artin-around-the-world/&docid=705PhwMAx2tloM&imgurl=http://airshipambassador.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/steampunk_dragon_by_kerembeyit.jpg&w=640&h=835&ei=lYCbT5ygH4fv0gHbmYmQBA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=312&sig=110226641830731934436&page=1&tbnh=165&tbnw=126&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:75&tx=50&ty=58) i will be fine. :P

[Wildeybeast]

Anyway, I dont believe for a second that GW will eliminate the chaos dread. It is absolutley against the established fluff. It would be too much of a drastic change to the whole story line and they know it. This is simply a case of rumor trolling.

Agree entirely. Traitor legions had dreadnoughts when they went rouge and subsequent rebels like the Astral Claws would also have them. Choasification might well change them a bit, but they will/can not remove them enitrely from the fluff/codex. IF these rumours are accurate, I would expect a renaming.

[DrLove42]

Reseruecting this thread with new goodies - via Faeit 212 (http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/chaos-rumors-heretek.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Faeit212+(Faeit+212))

via MrSteelfist
Only a little rumour i picked up at Warhammer World but i've heard mention that there will be a Techmarine type character, not sure if this is a SC or just a HQ choice though.

I just recalled being told that there would be a smaller demon engine that operated in a "pack" but isn't Brazen Knights. This may bestudio people just throwing some falsehoods out there to mess with us but thought it worth mentioning.

It might go against the no new IC rumours depending on its slot, but it also fits into the old rumours of some Dark Mechanicus in the book. I'd be interested...the fluff for the new decimator engine is interesting and hints at them, and we know they exist, so why not have them in the rules?

[Denied]

Reseruecting this thread with new goodies - via Faeit 212 (http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/chaos-rumors-heretek.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Faeit212+(Faeit+212))


It might go against the no new IC rumours depending on its slot, but it also fits into the old rumours of some Dark Mechanicus in the book. I'd be interested...the fluff for the new decimator engine is interesting and hints at them, and we know they exist, so why not have them in the rules?


I believe the rumor is no new Special Characters, not no new IC's. That being the case it wouldn't go against any previous rumors at the moment.

[eldargal]

Hm, imagine the modelling possibilities for a Dark Mechanicum Daemon Forge World. Nifty if there is some presence in the book allowing for theme armies.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Daemon Forge Worlds are awesome for a theme. My Deathwatch group raided one a few months back, by the end of it half of them wanted to do an army based off of it.

[Deadlift]

page 111 of this months WD, advertisement for a "How to Paint Chaos Terminators" masterclass at Nottingham in september.

Coincidence ?....me thinks not.

[DrLove42]

page 111 of this months WD, advertisement for a "How to Paint Chaos Terminators" masterclass at Nottingham in september.

Coincidence ?....me thinks not.

That does seem a bit specific....Usually their events are for newer models...

[Belial69]

And it's a full page advert. :)

[DrLove42]

New rumours from my favourite source - Faeit 212


via Grant
Lucious Eternal is a beast! Gets extra attacks from difference in WS just like lilith from DE.

The defiler is pretty damn good. It has a power called "daemon forge" which allows it to reroll all wound rolls and armor pen rolls in cc or while shooting.

Typhus unlocks plauge marines as troops and gives them feel no pain in his unit. This is pretty much known already on most rumor sites I believe.

Cover is definitely 5+. Again, not really news.

The idea that Plague marines don't get FNP without Typhus is wierd...5+ cover was expected, and a little good i guess

Defliers re-rolling all Wounds and armour pens sounds a bit mean...

Lucius...*sigh* isn't it a shame when a character gets a unique rule, that then just get stolen and used by everyone cos its cool.

[daboarder]

Hm, imagine the modelling possibilities for a Dark Mechanicum Daemon Forge World. Nifty if there is some presence in the book allowing for theme armies.

to tell you the truth eldargirl I already have the models and pieces with huge amounts of greenstuff waiting for 6th and CSM, going to turn it into my tournament army.

[eldargal]

I so hope that bit about Lucius is wrong, or at least that Lucius has a much lower WS than he does now (7). It is bad enough that everything that makes Craftworld Eldar unique has been whittled away over the past six years (bar runes) without the same happening to DE. The only thing Lelith has going for her is that special rule and a 4/3++ save, the last thing we need is some ******* CSM ****** coming along and doing it better because he has a super marine statline and a bunch of other wargear and stuff. I'm not too worried yet because I think Faeits soruces are rubbish but they may get some things right.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

the last thing we need is some ******* CSM ****** coming along and doing it better because he has a super marine statline and a bunch of other wargear and stuff.

Um, what?

[isotope99]

I so hope that bit about Lucius is wrong, or at least that Lucius has a much lower WS than he does now (7). It is bad enough that everything that makes Craftworld Eldar unique has been whittled away over the past six years (bar runes) without the same happening to DE. The only thing Lelith has going for her is that special rule and a 4/3++ save, the last thing we need is some ******* CSM ****** coming along and doing it better because he has a super marine statline and a bunch of other wargear and stuff. I'm not too worried yet because I think Faeits soruces are rubbish but they may get some things right.

I don't have the previous codex with me but didn't Lucius have a rule where he got more attacks for facing a higher WS foe and less for facing a lower WS foe on the basis he couldn't be bothered fighting them (something like his attacks stat was half their WS or he got +1 attack for WS 6 or more and -1 attack for WS 3 or less). That type of rule seems much more appropriate for him, or am I thinking of someone else?

[Defenestratus]

I so hope that bit about Lucius is wrong, or at least that Lucius has a much lower WS than he does now (7). It is bad enough that everything that makes Craftworld Eldar unique has been whittled away over the past six years (bar runes) without the same happening to DE. The only thing Lelith has going for her is that special rule and a 4/3++ save, the last thing we need is some ******* CSM ****** coming along and doing it better because he has a super marine statline and a bunch of other wargear and stuff. I'm not too worried yet because I think Faeits soruces are rubbish but they may get some things right.

EG: Let not your heard be troubled. With the way in which SC's are getting mega-buffed, I have a feeling that our Phoenix Lords will return to glory.

There's absolutely no reason why Jain Zar or Asurmen should be bested in combat by a mere mortal marine.

The fact that a human assassin has a higher WS than a PL is downright shameful honestly.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The fact that a human has a better WS and I than a Marine is appaulling.

[eldargal]

Not that I can see, might be missing something though.

I don't have the previous codex with me but didn't Lucius have a rule where he got more attacks for facing a higher WS foe and less for facing a lower WS foe on the basis he couldn't be bothered fighting them (something like his attacks stat was half their WS or he got +1 attack for WS 6 or more and -1 attack for WS 3 or less). That type of rule seems much more appropriate for him, or am I thinking of someone else?


Agreed, I'm not too worried about Craftworld Eldar to be honest, there may be some edition creep in 5th but that is mostly new books getting new toys and new rules to add variety. Eldar should get the same treatment.:)

EG: Let not your heard be troubled. With the way in which SC's are getting mega-buffed, I have a feeling that our Phoenix Lords will return to glory.

There's absolutely no reason why Jain Zar or Asurmen should be bested in combat by a mere mortal marine.

The fact that a human assassin has a higher WS than a PL is downright shameful honestly.

[Demonus]

The fact that a human has a better WS and I than a Marine is appaulling.

I dunno about that. Assassins are typically far superior combatants than your run of the mill marine, especially a marine who has only been a marine for a short period of time. Personally, I would put assassin's skill around the same level as a Captain (W6/BS6) but keep their stats human (St3/T3) unless they had some sort of stim drugs that increased it (ala DE combat drugs)

[Defenestratus]

I dunno about that. Assassins are typically far superior combatants than your run of the mill marine, especially a marine who has only been a marine for a short period of time. Personally, I would put assassin's skill around the same level as a Captain (W6/BS6) but keep their stats human (St3/T3) unless they had some sort of stim drugs that increased it (ala DE combat drugs)

Thats it.. the eversor is on Bath Salts!

[Black Hydra]

Thats it.. the eversor is on Bath Salts!

There was that battle between 300 Eversors and 3 chapters of marines. Everyone died except one marine who went on to kill the traitor Master of Assassins.

[eldargal]

Some apparent clarification about Typhus and Lucuis from Faeit via Warseer:

Plague Marines have FNP you don't need Typhus, it's the Cultist that get FNP and Fearless when upgraded to zombies with Typhus. Lucious the Eternals Attack profile is based on the WS of his opponent only in a Challenge. Daemon Forge is an optional to use ability that is only for shooting not CC. It allows to re roll failed armor pen or wound roll too, but you have to roll a D6 and on a 1 your defiler looses a Hull Point.

Close but he has been a bit mistaken on the exact wording on a few of these. Take it as you will he is obviously hearing his rumors third party and we have to deal with a Telephone game scenario here.
Really happy about the bolded bit assuming any of it is true, if it is just in a challenge then it's fine, Lelith ges it all the time.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Ooooh, challenges? Interesting.

[Wildeybeast]

Really happy about the bolded bit assuming any of it is true, if it is just in a challenge then it's fine, Lelith ges it all the time.

Until she gets FAQed to match up with Lucius. ;)