Calling all Eldar pros please

[Brandoncbaker]

Ive been considering Eldar for awhile now and was wondering what some of the more competitive army builds are these days. Any help would be Appreciated ..thanks

[thecactusman17]

Footdar is pretty popular, which spams multiple Guardians with heavy weapons platforms, a farseer, and generally the Avatar (for that pleasant Fearless bubble). Sometimes the Avatar is exchanged for two farseers with Fortune and Guide, to maximize the number of shots being poured into a target. With units like Warwalkers, this unmechanized army can pump out dozens of high-strength shots each turn at a remarkable range, and even more when the opponent finally closes in. Keep 1-2 small units of Guardian Jetbikes into reserve so that they can come on and control of contest objectives in the late game.

Another option is the fully mechanized eldar build, which puts tons of MSU Dire Avengers on the table in Wave Serpents, 1-2 squads of Fire Dragons in their own transports, and zooms around the board using Fortune, cover, holofields and Energy Shields to keep itself alive. This unit commonly wins by using Tank Shock to force enemy scoring units off of the objective at the last moment. It outlasts the opponent and often does relatively little raw damage in exchange for simply not allowing them to respond. You can sometimes field more tanks than some horde armies manage to put actual units on the board, and most of them will be scoring.

Be aware that this list naturally does poorly against armies that have tools for cracking Eldar Tanks, including those that can deepstrike into the more vulnerable rear arc.

[Inquiring M1nd]

Describe the way you'd like your army to feel. That would help in pinning down the subset of Eldar you should focus on.

I personally favor a mechanized build. Granted, you trade weight of fire and numbers for the resilience of armor and mobility. But that mobility can be a wonderful force multiplier. You can pick your fights, isolate and overwhelm chunks of your opponent's force, and in general flit around like an annoying flight of sparrows.

There's tricks to learn about covering your rear, mostly revolving around the free pivots. You can go back-to back with another tank, terrain, or a board edge.

What kinds of tactics and opponents do you worry about? What do you see Eldar not being able to handle?

[Cuddy]

Strength 6 spam is also common, especially combined with mech lists. Units like warwalkers can put out a ton of strength six shots for their points (I believe its 24 S6 shots from a full scatter laser squad per turn, for something like 180 points). Combine this with a mech list, especially one with multiple units of fire dragons (to destroy all the vehicles the S6 isn't that great at) and things like three jetbikes to capture points on the last turn, and you have one of the strongest current eldar lists. There's also one with a deathstar/ dual deathstar of farseers, with warlock councils mounted on jetbikes, thats popular, but I don't have a lot of experiences with it.

The strength six spam works well, because in 5 edition cover is so prevalent. It tends to be better to have 4 shots that allow armor saves (since that 3+ is probably going to just a 4+ cover anyway) then a starcannon with half the shots at higher cost. Plus, you're just as strong against hordes.

[DrLove42]

Or...you could just avoid all the WAAC builds and play something you like and is fun?

Eldar are old and overcosted. But they are still strong if you avoid some units (like Hawks...)

Tri-Lord lists were common (3 T8 3W 3+ MC with Lances at BS4) but not so much in the rise of the Dark Eldar that make T8 and T3 the same thing.

Pathfinders are a strong troops choice....stick em in cover with a Farseer fortuning them and you've got a unit with a re-rollable 2+ cover save.

Farseers, particularly with some runes can hurt on the enemy. Having to take physic tests on 3D6 and taking a perils on a 12+ hurts Grey Knights

When it comes down to it play what you want. I've gopt a comp this week and I;m playing 10 Wraithguard, a Wraithseers and 2 Warp Hunters. I call it....D cannons in yo face

[Brandoncbaker]

All great points..I'm thinking I'll just star painting models,as I don't play with them in painted. It's sounding like 6th will be out before I'm ready. Thanks again for the input

[marandamir]

Eldar are very surgical in unit design so playing a net list is tough. You need to understand what they do and how to use them. The best universally played list I've seen is the scatter laser spam lists described above. It's basically this:

eldrad
farseer with guide and maybe fortune
9 warwalkers with 2 scatter lasers each
(3) 5-8 man units of fire dragons in wave serpents with scatter lasers
fill the rest of your army with 5 man dire avenger squads in wave serpents

This is the easiest list to win with. You deploy your war-walkers in a way they can see targets but would get cover saves if you get shot at (eldrad helps with this if you go 1st). Eldar and the farseer guide the war-walker squadrons (basically making them twin linked) and fortune them to help keep em alive. Your other wave serpents also have twin linked scatter lasers. So you sit back and unload 90+ TL scatter laser shots every turn. Str 6 is enough to pen AV 10 and 11 transports, and glance stuff like storm ravens and dreads. Land raiders and tougher transports you let the enemy come to you and then let your fire dragons melta them to a puddle. So you pretty much shoot the enemy off the board and hold objectives with dire avenger wave serpents.

[Saint_Anger]

Another option is the fully mechanized eldar build, which puts tons of MSU Dire Avengers on the table in Wave Serpents, 1-2 squads of Fire Dragons in their own transports, and zooms around the board using Fortune, cover, holofields and Energy Shields to keep itself alive. This unit commonly wins by using Tank Shock to force enemy scoring units off of the objective at the last moment. It outlasts the opponent and often does relatively little raw damage in exchange for simply not allowing them to respond. You can sometimes field more tanks than some horde armies manage to put actual units on the board, and most of them will be scoring.

Be aware that this list naturally does poorly against armies that have tools for cracking Eldar Tanks, including those that can deepstrike into the more vulnerable rear arc.

May I ask for the counter strategy to this kind of Eldar list. Is there any other way rather than deepstrike into the rear arc? I just faced this list and am eager to beat it somehow.

[Cuddy]

May I ask for the counter strategy to this kind of Eldar list. Is there any other way rather than deepstrike into the rear arc? I just faced this list and am eager to beat it somehow.

It depends on what army you have. In general, the way to counter it is with lots of long range shots. Eldar max at AV12, so things like autocannons/assault cannons are better then melta. Shoot at targets of opportunity, the eldar can't Fortune all of their vehicles every turn. That's why its important to have that long range, so they can't keep those ones out of range. Fire dragons are weak when not killing tanks, have your infantry around your vehicles. This way, you make sure you can assault a fire dragon unit whenever it pops out (or even just bolter it). Otherwise, they'll jump back into the Wave Serpent next turn.

Space Marines - Will depend on your type, but in general, Predators, Long Fangs, Psyflemen etc will murder eldar skimmers.

IG - Probably the easiest if you are prepared to play against eldar, things like Hydras wouldn't even make the game a challenge.

Dark Eldar - Vehicles are just as fast, and more heavily armed, but weaker.

Tau - Use suits to keep in range, pathfinders to max the impact of shots. Kind of like every other army :P

Not going to lie, with an army like Orks or Tyranids this match could be brutal.

[Saint_Anger]

It depends on what army you have. In general, the way to counter it is with lots of long range shots. Eldar max at AV12, so things like autocannons/assault cannons are better then melta. Shoot at targets of opportunity, the eldar can't Fortune all of their vehicles every turn. That's why its important to have that long range, so they can't keep those ones out of range. Fire dragons are weak when not killing tanks, have your infantry around your vehicles. This way, you make sure you can assault a fire dragon unit whenever it pops out (or even just bolter it). Otherwise, they'll jump back into the Wave Serpent next turn.

Space Marines - Will depend on your type, but in general, Predators, Long Fangs, Psyflemen etc will murder eldar skimmers.

IG - Probably the easiest if you are prepared to play against eldar, things like Hydras wouldn't even make the game a challenge.

Dark Eldar - Vehicles are just as fast, and more heavily armed, but weaker.

Tau - Use suits to keep in range, pathfinders to max the impact of shots. Kind of like every other army :P

Not going to lie, with an army like Orks or Tyranids this match could be brutal.

I play Chaos Space Marines. According to your post, then I should use predator, havocs and obliterator?

[DrLove42]

Definently obliterators. Just remember a scatter laser is only S6 AP6. So that 2+ is gonna help

If the opponent is using Wave Serpents, don't even both with anything above S8. Because the shields just round it down.

The Farseers are the lynch pin. Remember their powers (particularly fortune) are short ranged, so aim for targets out of their grip

Warkwalkers are easy to kill. AV10, open topped and squadrons, so an immobilsed counts as destroyed. Basically if you penetrate you destroy one on a 3+.

[Wildcard]

How does the eldar shields (max str 8, only ever d6 for armor pen) work in these situations:

- Tank hunters usr (or any other that gives +1 to the penetration roll result)
- Ordnance weapons (2d6 and choose bigger)
- Vindicare assassins tank popper round

- Something thats on your mind and you want to bring it up

And incase we sometimes can get our eldar friends to play with us Apo
- Destroyer weapons (str D )

[DrLove42]

Codex trumps BRB

Wave Serpent against;

Tank Hunter - You only get 1 D6. No plus 1
Ordanance - I think you still only roll 1. But I don't remember this
Vindicare - Cant damage. Only ever rolls 1 D6...S3 + a 6 gives 9. And you don't get a rending roll

Destroyers....I wish they downgraded to S8...but my group won't let me do that. Full SD

[Saint_Anger]

Tank Hunter - You only get 1 D6. No plus 1


I think you can still get +1 to armor penetration roll. The wave serpent’s energy field just made us roll only one dice.

[Wildcard]

Why i am wondering about ordnance:

Even tho you originally roll 2d6 and choose higher, you still are using only 1 (the higher) to calculate the penetration result

This differentiates from , as example, a melta since it rolls 2d8 and calculates both results

[Saint_Anger]

Why i am wondering about ordnance:

Even tho you originally roll 2d6 and choose higher, you still are using only 1 (the higher) to calculate the penetration result

This differentiates from , as example, a melta since it rolls 2d8 and calculates both results

You need to read Eldar codex page 45. It states clearly about this and gives the example as same as your case.

[DrLove42]

Word for Word


Any ranged attack against the Wave Serpent from the front or side arc with a strength of greater than 8 counts as S8. In addition all ranged attacks never roll more than 1D6 for their armour penetration (for example melta weapons at half range or ordanance only roll 1 dice). Attacks in close combat or in the rear arc are unaffected by this rule

And fresh from the official Eldar FAQ on the subject of tank hunters, you were right St Anger


Q. Does the Wave Serpent’s energy field negate the +1 bonus to the penetration roll from the tank hunters universal special rule? (p45)
A. As the tank hunters universal special rule does not alter the strength of the attack, the energy field has no effect on it.

[keithsilva]

Warkwalkers are easy to kill. AV10, open topped and squadrons, so an immobilsed counts as destroyed. Basically if you penetrate you destroy one on a 3+.

warwalkers are not open toppped but still yes armor 10 lol but they can outflank i have done this once or twice and it can be preatty devasting if u show up at the right time and on the right side.A good player will keep them in some short of cover with a farseer close by to help then surive.

Also I have had this questions come up a number of times, those the energy shield stop the extra D6 for rending? I am 50/50 on this, I am a experienced Eldar player I normal allow them to do it, but recently I after numerous discussions about it thinking it cant? Do to it saying u never roll more then 1D6 for rmour penetration.

[Cuddy]

I play Chaos Space Marines. According to your post, then I should use predator, havocs and obliterator?

Yes. Going heavy on havocs/predators. Oblits are usually great, but you just won't need other weapons then lascannon (multimelta won't get extra D6 penetration, eldar don't have the armor saves to require plasma, bolters and whatnot are enough to kill any foot squads that pop out).

I would go with havoc squads with maxed out autocannons, and auto-las preds. This gives you range on them, so they can't just evade your shots. Move these units in midfield quickly and spread them out a bit. Few tables are so big that they can protect all the Serpents from those 48" ranges.

You might be able to use a winged Daemon prince and bikers to threaten the vehicles (keep them moving enough to not be shooting) but I havn't actually had an opponent do this to me, so its just speculation.

Shoot warwalkers the turn they show up. Just one of those havoc squads shooting with 4 autocannon is approx. 1 glance and 3 penetrating hits, so around 2/3 of the squad dead already.

Don't worry about any other real threats, a list with enough Serpants/Falcons/Prisms to play like this doesn't have a real assault ability, so you can go all shooty. Eldar can't assault out of their vehicles, so either he waits around beside you for a turn, in which case the vehicle should get destroyed, or banshees pop out, and die horribly to one tac squads bolters.