Predator vs. Vindicator

[Raiden DJ]

I am curious what the general opinion is. Is either worth taking at all even?

[Saint_Anger]

What is the idea of setting up this poll? Perhaps some more title on the poll would be great before continue on.

[ElectricPaladin]

I haven't played with a Vindicator before, but I've been quite happy with my Predators. They kill things, like woah.

[thecactusman17]

Depends on the codex.

Chaos or Blood Angels? Vindicators all the way. Codex Space Marines? Kind of a mixed bag, but the Predator is a great model with good options for killing tanks or infantry, but not both. Wolves? Not even sure if they have options, but even if they did I'd still choose 4 long fangs with missiles. Black Templars can use either very well thanks to Power of the Machine Spirit, but I would take Predators to make popping transports at range easier. Also, it maximizes the number of potential targets they can fire at.

[Gir]

Depends on the codex.

Chaos or Blood Angels? Vindicators all the way. Codex Space Marines? Kind of a mixed bag, but the Predator is a great model with good options for killing tanks or infantry, but not both. Wolves? Not even sure if they have options, but even if they did I'd still choose 4 long fangs with missiles. Black Templars can use either very well thanks to Power of the Machine Spirit, but I would take Predators to make popping transports at range easier. Also, it maximizes the number of potential targets they can fire at.

Autocannon-lascannon preds in the blood angels codex are awesome. 6" move while still being able to lay down 4 48" shots is hard to go past.

[burning crome]

This is a real subjective question really dependent on the codex your using them in + army build. In truth nigher are bad choices. the vindicator is possible a bit harder to use (well keep alive). In terms of raw efficiency both are mildly over costed but not by much (also depend on codex where for instance in the C:SM laz cannons are so over priced that the predator become a cheaper alliterative)

[Cuddy]

I tend to prefer the predator, firstly because marines usually already have short range covered, and the vindicator is 24" ordnance. :/ Secondly, for the same cost you can get a predator with an autocannon and two lascannons, so 2 S9 and 2 S7 shots at 48" every turn. It depends on your army though.

EDIT: Oops, forgot that's just the vanilla marines codex. I don't really have experience with the rest.

[thecactusman17]

Not saying the preds aren't good in Codex Blood Angels, but moving a S10 AP2 Large Blast Template 12" forward is going to wreck someones day, flat out. Especially when you can get fairly cheap ranged dreadnoughts in the elite section and still have point left over for your troops and HQ selections.

[Wolfshade]

I think there are three big questions:

In which codex
How they fit in with the rest of your list
Who is your opponent

Generally speaking, any rhino chasis vehicle in C:BA is better than the rest of the powered armour breathern owing to the fast special rule.
If they are your only anti-tank, then picking vindis over preds is not a great option. If you have plenty of redundancy of anti-tank than vindis can be used elsewhere.
If you are going against a horde list then a "dakka" pred is worthwhile, lascannon pred not so much, and vinidis are a good choice (assuming your opponent clusters)

[Paul]

How's this for an answer?

Predators, because a right and proper tank is usually better than an assault gun at versatility, known in Wargaming as 'take all comers.'

Also it's fluffier to have more Predators.

[Skari]

I voted predator, but that is from a competitive point of view. The vindy is a fun unit tho. Now, if you play black templars, then the vindy becomes competititve as well, with POTMS.

[SaganGree]

The Pred is better in almost every situation vs tanks because of one reason... with an auto-las pred you can get 4 glancing/penetrating on a target. The Vindi can only ever get 1.

Against infantry either does very well but if you are taking a pred for anti infantry, there is something wrong with your list.

[Raiden DJ]

I'm sorry I wasn't more specific. I was just wondering because I hardly ever see people using these in their lists anymore. I would probably say this poll is directed more towards vanilla marines but when I posted this it was more of a complete overall thing of all MEQ.

[Wolfshade]

Against infantry either does very well but if you are taking a pred for anti infantry, there is something wrong with your list.
2xTwin-Linked Heavy Bolters + Autocannon are perfect for infantry hunting, it is highly unreliable if you are using it to take out tanks with FA:13 being so prevalent it could only glance! Dakka preds are infact so good at infantry hunting BA replaced the Autocannon turret for a twin-linked assault cannon specially for it!
Half range melta weaponry are cheaply available and are more effective vs. armour with the rolling 2D6 to pen than a lascannon pred.
You can't really say you are doing something wrong if you don't know the persons list or how it plays.

[Defenestratus]

I vote predator.

They can take more than one weapon destroyed result and still be worth a damn.

[fuzzbuket]

vindicators as they look amazing (yes i have got the tactics of a bannana in space on a unicicle with a tophat)

[celestialatc]

Really it just comes down to what I am playing. I love my Preds for reliable anti-vehicle. And I love my Vins for anti-infantry.

[L192837465]

I started a thread on why I hate predators (especially in the chaos book), so my vote goes to the vindi. One good shot and you can wipe out an entire squad of paladins (No fnp and instant death, jerkwads!)

The AV 14 on the front helps a lot. It also draws a ton of fire away from my rhinos.

[Sinistermind]

if i played blood angels i would run 3 vindicators (and some baals if higher points)

in most other MEQ armies probably mostly preds

[plawolf]

I started a thread on why I hate predators (especially in the chaos book), so my vote goes to the vindi. One good shot and you can wipe out an entire squad of paladins (No fnp and instant death, jerkwads!)

The AV 14 on the front helps a lot. It also draws a ton of fire away from my rhinos.

The Vindi does not have AV14 on the front...

[thelion]

realy it depends. i use the pred alot and have had very good luck with them (i tend to stick with the autocannon/hvy bolters options good at killing infantry and can stop most transports, plus if you mathhammer it the autocannon is more likley to stop a vic than a lascannon. just saying) but at the same time i have used my vindi to great success on a few preset treain bords (one was a city fight bord and i was able to use it to just clear streets and even remove some bulding from the table, the other was a set up like it was in a delta there were like 6 rivers on the table and a bunch of fairly week bridges, and i was able to destroy the bridges to get me some more time to shoot those blood claws befor they got to me;) ) so IMHO both are great vics and it is realy up to your play stile and what you are going for, and up aganst

[DoomMouse]

Auto las predators are probably my favorite tank in the game, but I think its a bit of a shame that the regular anhialators and destructors arent as competitive as theyre mor fluffy

[wookieplus]

My preference is for Preds, with either HB or LC sponsons depending on the army I'm fielding.

Reason is that the vindi usually has to move forward in order to drop its shot, exposing AV11 flanks. AV13 front is all very well, but sometimes you meet unsporting opponents who try and shoot your tank from other angles! Long range preds sitting closer to the baseline usually get to use their AV13 more often.

Having said that, the Vindi is one of those tanks I fear the most, given I tend to field lots of SM infantry, so it will usually be my prime target - and I presume other SM opponents will think likewise.

[Brymm]

I mainly play Chaos but have used all sorts of armies. In my general experience, I rarely manage to get off a big satisfying blast/kill/death/doom shot with my Vindicators (when I've used them) and usually end up getting the ol' "weapon destroyed" result. If that doesn't get them, then they get the ol' "immobilized" result, which is nearly as bad on a front mounted 24inch gun.
So seeing that occur so often, I just spend 5 more points for a Defiler... and even run 3 some times! They still throw out pie plates, they chop up everything but monstorous creatures in close combat, have daemonic possession and AND AND have fleet! Plus both the Predator AND Vindicator compete with the Obliterator AND Defiler in that codex.
If you are playing a Codex without access to the mighty Defiler or Obliterator, I would vote Predator every time. They are cheap for a 13av front chassi and can throw out a boat-load of shots. In codexs that can get Speeders (which is all non-chaos marine armies I believe), you can feild some great support using only Predators and Speeders. An army a buddy of mine plays quite a bit gives me fits pretty badly by running basically:
10 TH/SS Termis with Libby/Gates
4 Tactical Squads in various load outs
Many Speeders
3 Predators with Various loadouts

Tough nut to crack most of the time. His key to keeping his Preds alive and shooting is having a ROCK unit like the TH/SS Terminators that people end up shooting at instead, allowing his support to chew you up.
I digress.

[Vangrail]

I personally hate preds. I don't understand why they lack a better gun options. Sure take las cannons but so can razorbacks and they don't take up a heavy. Also they always failed me ive just had better luck with vindicators.