Can Space Marines have sex?

[Rissan4ever]

I'm putting together a Deathwatch RPG campaign, and the question of Space Marines having sex came up. I've read that Marines get "chemically castrated," but it's unclear exactly what that means. I know Space Marines can't produce children, but is the sex drive still there? Can anybody shed some light?

[bfmusashi]

Space Marines don't come with the Chem Geld talent so a temptation for nooky could still work. One the other hand it takes them a while to get their armor on and off so for this to be an issue the seducer would have to have some kind of tech use and armorer skills and probably some familiarity with astartes armor to be effective.
It's also worth noting, in the current fluff, space marines are grabbed just before girls become neat and thrust into an all male society devoted to killing things. Most likely, they'd be into dudes and that makes some people oogy. I'd use that to shut it down if you don't want to deal with it.
I think there was supposed to be a mention in one of Ragnar's books that he still likes the ladies, but it was a divergence supposedly unique to the Space Wolves.

[Rissan4ever]

LOL! You have a point about possibly liking dudes. Unless the gene-seeding process completely retards puberty, which wouldn't work if you need big strapping lads, those sexual impulses have to go somewhere. And there's no girls around, so...

It may never come up in game, but my group can get a bit pervy at times, so it's something to think about.

[Paul]

Chemically castrated usually means "chemically unable to produce sperm"

It has nothing to do with the existence or use of a penis.

So they COULD have sex, in that they have the gear.

But how this "chemical castration" affects their hormones and sex-drives is anyone's guess.

[Wildeybeast]

I would think that they are too devoted to war, duty, honour etc to worry about such things. I also question when they would find time for wooing. SM's get very little downtime and that would usually be when they are transporting between warzones. Such downtime is usually spent trianing, maintaining equipment etc, it's not like they get/need shore leave. Also, who would they have sex with? There aren't any female SM's, so they are stuck with normal women. Assuming that the gene enhancing increases the size of their penis in proportion to the rest of the body, even the most, ahem, 'generous' porn star is going to struggle to handle what a marine is packing. So unless they are taking the bromance with each other to another level, I would say no, both because of the chemical castration and the practical implications I have mentioned.

[bfmusashi]

Their bodies don't increase in size proportionately. You can not fit human proportions into Astartes armor. Additionally, if memory serves, only their bones and muscle tissues increase in size. The penis, contrary to the wisdom of Tenacious D, is not a muscle and would likely look comically small. Again, hasn't seen ladies since he was going through his special time and now he has a wee member that is likely the size of his finger. He's an eight foot death machine afraid girls are going to laugh at him.

[Kawauso]

I find it kind of odd how the exact specifics regarding Astartes and sex are neatly glossed over in the books, even when there are downright gruesome sexual acts which are not (there's a snuff scene in Fulgrim, and in False Gods there's mention of an act of bestiality with a diseased pig as part of a ritual to appease all four Chaos Gods).

However, I recall something about one chapter - Salamanders, maybe? - being permitted to return to their society in leadership rolls after a lengthy service in the chapter, and that this includes being able to marry and have children (the children are normal humans, however, IIRC). This does go against the chemically castrated notion, however.

As has been mentioned, the Space Wolf series brings up Ragnar's attraction to women - I don't think it's specifically regarded as unusual outside the narrator's perspective, however, since it's just Ragnar wondering to himself whether or not he should still have those feelings. Kind of something that drives me nuts about that series...any time something happens or Ragnar feels something his thought process is usually: "Is it because I'm a Spehss Mehreen? It's because I'm a Spehss Mehreen." I don't find that series particularly well-written, and between Ragnar's thought process and goofy action movie stuff like a fully-armoured Astartes sliding down stair railings with his feet and firing dual pistols all the way down...I'm not sure whether they should be taken at face value. That could just be my opinion, though...they don't seem to really deviate from the fluff all that much - they're just crummy books.

Really though, I think I have two words that can sum this question up: Emperor's Children.
Now, while any sort of explicit mention of Astartes engaging in sexual acts is glossed over in the books, as I've said, there is the whole Maraviglia opera-turned-orgy in Fulgrim, where everything goes Slaanesh, and there are sex acts -taking place- there...but no specific mention of any involving Astartes. I would assume that Space Marines are -capable- of sex, but as far as loyalists are concerned, they're basically monks, so they're probably celibate for one reason or another.

Pretty sure there's some clandestine man-loving going on somewhere, though. I mean, look at the Dark Angels. ;)

[bfmusashi]

I don't remember the Salamanders being able to have kids, but they certainly have active roles in their societies when they aren't killing things. They recruit by apprenticeship in a system that reminds me of the Boy Scouts. I like to think this is why they worked so hard to save the children of Armageddon.
I remember Ultramarines have some kind of home ties too, actively running Ultramar and interacting with their wards and families. I think this is a horribly overlooked part of their fluff.

[Jmaximum]

However, I recall something about one chapter - Salamanders, maybe? - being permitted to return to their society in leadership rolls after a lengthy service in the chapter.....

I the Salamanders trilogy Tome Of Fire - it is actually encouraged that the sm's live amongst the tribes from which they were selected during downtime between wars. And since the entire chapter rarely mobilizes, that leaves plenty of marines on shore leave amongst the human population.

But, somewhere in 2nd ed fluff, it was mentioned that the marines can not have sex, either by lack of equipment (they certainly do not need testosterone producing organs anymore, nor do they procreate the old-fashioned way since they reuse the progenoid gland) and/or simply by the psychotherapy indoctrination into the Cult of the Emperor and being a nigh-on immortal killing machine.

[inquisitorsog]

Look at the way they stand.

That armored underwear obviously creates some comfort issues for men, I'm sure it also produces some other issues with the equipment down there.

[daddydead117]

chaos can because they tend to kidnap woman and just look at the emperor's children during the heresy

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

chaos can because they tend to kidnap woman and just look at the emperor's children during the heresyThere's a part in the book Fulgrim covering their fall to Slaanesh - when the humans present were corrupted, they began having an orgy, when the astartes present were corrupted, they started killing everyone. Astartes tend to have different standards of what's pleasurable than typical humans. Remember, Slaanesh isn't necessarily about carnality - it's about excess.

Also, wasn't the kidnapping women thing about the Iron Warriors building that giant pregnancy machine thing where they threw in humans and got fresh space marines out of it?

[Deadlift]

If they were able to father children, would any of the enhancements they receive be passed onto their children ?
I know most of what they become is implanted but would some of the gene seed variations be passed on ?

Would make for some cool playground " my dads bigger than your dad" arguments and the parents school sports day race would be brilliant to watch.

But going back to my original question, if they could breed marines instead of "building" them I am sure it would be done. This makes me think that they are sterile.

[Denzark]

Didn't we do this already?

[The Madman]

"oh look this thread again"

as well as being chemically castrated they also go through a lot of psychotherapy to make them the battle hardened warriors we know toda; i can hazard a guess that during the psychotherapy sessions they have their interest in women/men and sex erased so that their mind is totally free of everything other the duty they must perform for the rest of their long lives.

thing with chaos marine is that they manage to break their psychotherapy and thus become more human again, a human with a super-soldier body. that could be the reason chaos marines don't benefit from the ATSKNF rule while loyalist marines do.

TL;DR?
Loyalists have no interest in sex so no they wouldn't partake in it unless they fell to chaos.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Even Chaos marines seem to place a greater stock in violence/martial skills/furthering their god's will than they do carnality. Plus, a pretty common mutation received by chaos marines is having their armor bonded to their bodies, which would kinda throw a monkey-wrench into the sexytimes.

[Jmaximum]

Even Chaos marines seem to place a greater stock in violence/martial skills/furthering their god's will than they do carnality. Plus, a pretty common mutation received by chaos marines is having their armor bonded to their bodies, which would kinda throw a monkey-wrench into the sexytimes.

But just look at all the tentacles they get!!!!!!!

[bfmusashi]

If they were able to father children, would any of the enhancements they receive be passed onto their children ?
I know most of what they become is implanted but would some of the gene seed variations be passed on ?

Would make for some cool playground " my dads bigger than your dad" arguments and the parents school sports day race would be brilliant to watch.

But going back to my original question, if they could breed marines instead of "building" them I am sure it would be done. This makes me think that they are sterile.

No portion of the geneseed effects the gamete production of the testicles. If they had children they'd be normal.

[eldargal]

*Looks at thread title* That's what he said.:rolleyes:

Didn't we do this already?

Space Marines do have sex, but only if you buy them a mink coat first.

[Tynskel]

Space Marines do have sex, but only if you buy them a mink coat first.

I would have thought that it was after they have grown tentacles, worn the skins of humans, and played bass guitars as weapons, but you might be right...

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Only after they see a wedding ring!

[Phototoxin]

Surely with all the stimms and hormone therapy their testes would have atrophied?

[Psychosplodge]

Can they?
Probably
Should they?
Probably not
Do they?
Some might but even then they're warrior monks, who do you think they would be interested in?

[eldargal]

Each other.

[Psychosplodge]

Each other.
Exactly:D

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

IT'S GUY LOVE!

More to the point, I don't know, and don't want to know. Why does everyone else!??!

[Wildeybeast]

IT'S GUY LOVE!

More to the point, I don't know, and don't want to know. Why does everyone else!??!

Because the internet is only good for nerd stuff and porn. This fulfills both criteria.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

'Marneus Calgar pulled himself out of bed, calling a Chapter serf to help him don his Terminator Armour. Tigurius, still in bed, took a long draw from his Lho stick; "So, Marneus, did you learn that particular maneuver in the Codex Astartes, too?"'

[Legoklods]

Didn't the emperors children rape a bunch of stuff when they beseiged the emperors palace?
Unless they would get creative, that would require erect penises... (a sentence never before writen on BOLS)

[Legoklods]

'Marneus Calgar pulled himself out of bed, calling a Chapter serf to help him don his Terminator Armour. Tigurius, still in bed, took a long draw from his Lho stick; "So, Marneus, did you learn that particular maneuver in the Codex Astartes, too?"'


I find myself unable to applaud you for this brilliant post, and that annoys me a great deal!:D

[Kawauso]

'Marneus Calgar pulled himself out of bed, calling a Chapter serf to help him don his Terminator Armour. Tigurius, still in bed, took a long draw from his Lho stick; "So, Marneus, did you learn that particular maneuver in the Codex Astartes, too?"'

Lies.

Marneus would totally clean up before stepping into his armour.
Ultramarines are nothing if not fastidious.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Lies.

Marneus would totally clean up before stepping into his armour.
Ultramarines are nothing if not fastidious.Unnecessary, he was wearing a self-cleaning Servo-Ultracondom. Uses one to strangle an Avatar in the next Space Marine codex.

[Wildeybeast]

Why would he need too? Man on man love doesn't carry the risk of pregnancy and the SM immune system should be able to cope with any STD.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Why would he need too? Man on man love doesn't carry the risk of pregnancy and the SM immune system should be able to cope with any STD.The Codex Astartes commands them to suit up; they do not question the orders of their Primarch. This is one of the many points they argue with Codex-deviant Chapters.

[Psychosplodge]

Because the internet is only good for nerd stuff and porn. This fulfills both criteria.

Have you never heard the song? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3zXW08dSnc)


'Marneus Calgar pulled himself out of bed, calling a Chapter serf to help him don his Terminator Armour. Tigurius, still in bed, took a long draw from his Lho stick; "So, Marneus, did you learn that particular maneuver in the Codex Astartes, too?"'

Do not want! I may have been one of those suggesting SM were a bunch of man loving monks, but do we need the actual yaoi?

ps it is frikking hilarious...

[Wildeybeast]

The Codex Astartes commands them to suit up; they do not question the orders of their Primarch. This is one of the many points they argue with Codex-deviant Chapters.

Stupid Imperials, always blindly following dogma and doctrine and never thinking for themselves.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

Do not want! I may have been one of those suggesting SM were a bunch of man loving monks, but do we need the actual yaoi?

ps it is frikking hilarious...I aim to please :P Adding yaoi to anything makes it better - it's a lot like bacon in that regard. ...hmmmm. "Lion El'Johnson slowly ate the salty bacon off of Russ's granite-etched abdominals."


Stupid Imperials, always blindly following dogma and doctrine and never thinking for themselves.It is told that when Ultramarine and Space Wolf vessels pass each other, all astropathic channels are drowned out with messages of "Safety first!" and "Dulls feeling!"

[Psychosplodge]

I aim to please :P Adding yurito anything makes it better - it's a lot like bacon in that regard
"


*Fixed*

[edger1]

Read inquisition Wars its an old book rereleased it has mention of half naked chaos marines raping women, also mentions stuff abut the emperor having children scattered across the galaxy.

[Psychosplodge]

Well yeah didn't rogue trader have rules for the offspring of the emperor?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

You mean "The Sensei"?

[Psychosplodge]

Is it the sensei? You sure it werent the enlightened or illumanati or something like that?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

The Illuminati are the guys who hunt "The Sensei" to sacrifice to give life to the Star Child.

[Psychosplodge]

I knew I'd read they were intertwined somehow...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

There were a load of bogus theories that Captain Titus is a Sensei. I killed those theorists.

[edger1]

yes i believe it is the sensei that the illuminati hunt to sacrifice to the emperor to apperantly rebirth him as the star child,would be a great way for GW to move the 40K timeline on

[bfmusashi]

Save Hydra being a foul plot of the loathsome Tzeentch.

[velox atrum]

Psycho-Surgery and Mental Conditioning are part of building a Marine, as sex drive would or could lead to slanesh etc would expect it to be reoriented into a honor/duty

[olberon]

rule number 15 of the 100 commandments of a space marine:

15. Thou shall not ask a Sister if you might "donate some of your own Gene-Seed."

a few for sh*ts and giggles:
Playing naughty movies in your power armour’s autosenses is not sanctioned by the Adeptus Astartes.
Thou shalt not teleport into the Sisters showering facilities.
Thou shalt not stray from the adeptus mechanicus's directive towards ornamentation of rhinos-specifically no aluminium sport rims, neon, extraneous exhaust pipes, or fuzzy dice.

[Daemonette666]

The Sensei are the children the Emperor fathered before he decided to rise to power. He fathered many children to many wives, leaving before the children had come of age. He always left when he did not age and people started to ask questions. The children, many of whom are suppose to be the stuff of legends - Robin Hood, Archilles, Perecles, and many other heroes of legend, are suppose to be his male offspring. They are infertile, can not produce children of their own, and a full blurb on them is in the 1st/2nd edition books lost and the damned, and the slaves to darkness.

The illuminati are trying to hide them, not hunt them down, so they can be fed into the golden throne at the last moment to re-incarnate the Emperor as a living god for mankind to defeat Chaos - AKA the Star Child. The Inquisition hunt down Sensei, as they do not know who they are, and think of them as rogue psykers. Psycannon ammo is made using the dessicated remains of Sensei bodies.

Chemical Castration is similar to what they do to sex offenders. they use a chemical call Androcur (I think that is what it is called). It reduces the ammount of testosterone in their bodies . This counters the whole idea of having huge hulking space marines who have an over abundance of testosterone int their bodies.

Maybe they all have Orchiectomies when they are inducted? (save you looking the term up - get their dangly bits cut off)

Either way, they can still have sex, but it is beneath them and their ideals. Only Chaos marines who have given up the holier than thou Monk like behaviour of purist Space Marines (yes like Ultra Smurfs) would even consider having sex anyway.

In the Horus Heresy they had sex often, and it did not matter which Legion you were in. Since the Heresy, The Space Marines have adopted Guilliman's teachings, and choose not to have sex any more as it weakens a Space Marine. They shall no no fear and shall not no personal pleasures.

[Jmaximum]

The Sensei are the children the Emperor fathered before he decided to rise to power. He fathered many children to many wives, leaving before the children had come of age. He always left when he did not age and people started to ask questions. The children, many of whom are suppose to be the stuff of legends - Robin Hood, Archilles, Perecles, and many other heroes of legend, are suppose to be his male offspring. They are infertile, can not produce children of their own, and a full blurb on them is in the 1st/2nd edition books lost and the damned, and the slaves to darkness.

The illuminati are trying to hide them, not hunt them down, so they can be fed into the golden throne at the last moment to re-incarnate the Emperor as a living god for mankind to defeat Chaos - AKA the Star Child. The Inquisition hunt down Sensei, as they do not know who they are, and think of them as rogue psykers. Psycannon ammo is made using the dessicated remains of Sensei bodies.

Chemical Castration is similar to what they do to sex offenders. they use a chemical call Androcur (I think that is what it is called). It reduces the ammount of testosterone in their bodies . This counters the whole idea of having huge hulking space marines who have an over abundance of testosterone int their bodies.


Where does this come from? The only 'Sensei' I ever heard of was the one hunting the escaped traitor marines in "The Outcast Dead". And where did the Illuminati come from? Is that the same group as the Cabal (the one that John Grammaticus and Oll Perrson belongs to?)

[Kyban]

Where does this come from? The only 'Sensei' I ever heard of was the one hunting the escaped traitor marines in "The Outcast Dead". And where did the Illuminati come from? Is that the same group as the Cabal (the one that John Grammaticus and Oll Perrson belongs to?)

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Illuminati

[Daemonette666]

Reference - The Realms of Chaos Volume 1 - Slaves to Darkness -GW Publication circa 1988. It had army lists, and rules for both Fantasy and 40K Chaos - Slaanesh and Khorne. How to build Warbands, and had 2 pages 216 + 217 on the Illuminati, Emperor and the Sensei. The same book had an Ordo Malleus Army list.

The second book Realms of Chaos Vol 2 - The Lost and the Damned circa 1988 written by Rick Priestly and Bryan Ansell contained rules for both Nurgle and Tzeentch in Fantasy and 40K Army Lists and Warbands. It also had rules for building Sensei Warbands on Pages187 - 192 and a separate table on page 293.

There is also a section on the history of the Emperor starting back with his birth in 8000 BC in Central Anatolia. Created from the ritual Suicide of the old Shamans who used to reincarnate themselves, and were losing the power to do so as Chaos slowly took hold of the Warp. They agreed and within 1 year of the mass suicide, the Emperor was born - a composite of the Thousands of Shamans from old Earth. It goes on to discuss the history of the Emperor up until the Horus Heresy and the Golden Throne and the Emperor's Spirit creating a link between his presence in the Warp and his decaying body in the Golden Throne - The Star Child on page 186.

I have just downloaded them again from Scribd. They will have all the information you need.

[Jmaximum]

@Kyban: my mind is blown!
@Daemonette666: I would love access to those files/stories.

I did read the Ian Watson series when it first came out, and it was a very different bend on the 40K universe, regarding combating chaos and the effects that had on Space Marines (i.e. an Imperial Fist Captain is mind wiped due to the trauma). It was a weird read, and would be hard-pressed to fit into the modern mythos of 40K.

The Illuminati link care of Kyban was very, uh, illuminating. Good background there, and that thread seems to be making an appearance in some of the Horus Heresy books.

Daemonette: a link to the downloads would be awesome!

[Daemonette666]

I just logged onto Scribd, payed for a day pass worth of downloads (24 hours worth of document downloads), $5.00 through PayPal, and then went and down loaded the files. I made sure they had them to download first, and down loaded them again last night to make sure they are complete. Someone took the time to copy them into PDF format, and since they are over 30 tears old, the old copyright issues should be almost non existent. Anyway who would know you down loaded them. It is not like you are going to be waving them about in a GW store.

If you play Rogue Trader or one of the other GW role play games, this would be a great addition for your party.

I wrote up an idea last year and posted it regarding a new force of Chaos Marines created from the combination of Word Bearer genes and those of a Dark Sensei by a clone of Fabius Bile. Dark Sensei are those who have realised the truth about what the Illuminati want to do with them in the last days, and have turned to Chaos. They have open their hearts to the most base of chaotic instincts, and roam the warp storm areas. A search of the forums for any I have posted on this site will be able to find what you need. I think it was either in the Army lists/tactics or under background. I was intending to use them under the Grey Knights codex as a counts as list.

[Jmaximum]

Daemonette: sorry, did not realize you had to pay for the pass. My mistake.
I am searching on the site, but apparently my search strings suck. How exactly did you search for them?

[Daemonette666]

I simply typed into the document search line "realm of chaos lost and the damned" and "realm of chaos slaves to darkness" both came up and then i down loaded them Note, you can only down load one document at a time. One of the documents is 94Kb the other is 59Kb, so they are both very big files.

[chromedog]

The copyright is still held by GW - 30 years passed or not.
Scribd also operates on a trade basis for downloads. You upload something and get dl credits that way as well as/instead of paying for them.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I wish this thread would just die...
The Thread Title disturbs me.

[Psychosplodge]

I wish this thread would just die...
The Thread Title disturbs me.
Yes kill it with posts...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Yes kill it with posts...

And bury it with sarcasm... :p

[Psychosplodge]

Indeed, the quicker we do this the better...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Step 1. Take off
Step 2. Nuke the site from orbit
Step 3. ????
Step 4. PROFIT

[Psychosplodge]

The entire site? we can't really have "precision" nukes can we?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

They don't need precision, area effect is fine. :p

[Psychosplodge]

But think of the rest of the forum!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

True... I would be lost without some of you...

[Psychosplodge]

Or at least bored...

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

True. Bored in all sorts of ways.

[Daemonette666]

Daemonette: sorry, did not realize you had to pay for the pass. My mistake.
I am searching on the site, but apparently my search strings suck. How exactly did you search for them?
Did you manage to get the info you were looking for on the Sensei, Illuminati, and the Star Child?

[Power Klawz]

Intercourse is strictly prohibited. They are, however, allowed to receive handies. When you use a de-energized power fist its called "the stranger."

[White Tiger88]

Intercourse is strictly prohibited. They are, however, allowed to receive handies. When you use a de-energized power fist its called "the stranger."

Tell that to the space wolves.

[Magpie]

Intercourse is strictly prohibited. They are, however, allowed to receive handies. When you use a de-energized power fist its called "the stranger."

I believe I have just found my new Signature line quote :D

[robrodgers46]

Apparently necro is ok.

[Daemonette666]

I'm putting together a Deathwatch RPG campaign, and the question of Space Marines having sex came up. I've read that Marines get "chemically castrated," but it's unclear exactly what that means. I know Space Marines can't produce children, but is the sex drive still there? Can anybody shed some light?

In one of the old Space Marine novels, from the HH series I think, it mentions a visiting beautiful female dignitary (powerful family connections) who romanced, and flirted with a space marine. I think they slept together. I know they said that the space marines were chemically castrated, and could not produce children, but they could get pleasure from the intercourse. They would not form emotional bonds with the female they slept with however, and she might get a little crushed if he was not careful.

Since the HH, Space Marines have been less likely to have intercourse with any female powerful enough to think she can ask a Space marine for some personal bed time, as they have been indoctrinated against it. Chaos Space Marines, especially Noise Marines, or some of the Slaanesh marked Warriors would enjoy the adventure (for a short time), and then probably cut up and torture the woman, or man afterwards. They are demented, insane and emotionally starved individuals after all.

[Magpie]

They are demented, insane and emotionally starved individuals after all.

I think it's more PC to say "Misunderstood"

[Deadlift]

Some have implied in this thread that Space Marines are into the man love. Don't see it, don't want to believe it, not in my 40k and I'm quite sure not in GWs 40k either.
No problem with a persons chosen sexuality, alls fair in love etc, but not Space marines.

[White Tiger88]

I think it's more PC to say "Misunderstood"

You called?

[Power Klawz]

Some have implied in this thread that Space Marines are into the man love. Don't see it, don't want to believe it, not in my 40k and I'm quite sure not in GWs 40k either.
No problem with a persons chosen sexuality, alls fair in love etc, but not Space marines.

To be honest it would make them a lot more human and diverse, and it would really be the only logical conclusion if you took into account any sort of realism. I mean the entire concept of a space marine is basically an overwrought vision of hyper-masculinity and nationalism seen through the eyes of a pre-pubescent boy. They are boy scouts, god and country etc., who just so happen to be able to punch through tanks and live in a universe populated with easily discriminated against minorities (I mean space aliens.)

The closest they get to actual characterization is showing a little bit of angst at not being 100% awesome sometimes. As far as an exploration of trans-humanist characterization goes they fall quite short of any reasonable expectation.

Put a bunch of amped up danger junkies in a hostile environment for a prolonged period of time where the only things available for gratification are termagants or Brother-Sergeant Handsome and I'm pretty sure the dam is going to break every once in a while. Hell look at modern soldiers, it happens in the actual marines.

[Deadlift]

Sorry don't buy it, bred and engineered for war. Trying to humanise them by giving them human "feelings" doesn't cut it for me. In my book they aren't human anymore and many of the instinctual elements that make us human just don't exist in a space marine, "they shall know no fear" as an example. Brotherly or fraternal love is one thing I can accept, but any kind of sexual urge in a marine I just can't see, not without some chaos influence anyway.

[Power Klawz]

I guess it does get a bit murky when you consider the minutiae of what exactly a space marine is and isn't. The specific bits seems to vary depending on who is telling the story. If they are simply physically incapable of experiencing sexual urges because of advanced genetic re-engineering then its probably a safe bet that, absent any outright magical influence, they won't be at all interested in getting down.

I'm just not sure if that's the way they are presented. Obviously the topic of sexuality is seldom approached in the literature, and when it is it is generally as puerile as the rest of it. Romance is right out, its either vaguely implied mass rape or monkish abstinence because they're too busy headbutting daemons to worry about date night. I suppose the later eventuality is fine in a sort of "we don't talk about where babies come from to our children" weird way, the former is of course a tricky subject to weave into any story, but becomes far more onerous when it is literally the only depiction of sex ever considered in a particular story.

I'm fairly certain that any barrier to sexual gratification a space marine has is purely psychological however. They are indoctrinated at a young age into a life of battle and celibacy because for some reason, someone thought that would be a good idea a long time ago. Indoctrination is a powerful tool in real life and can lead otherwise perfectly reasonable adults to believe all sorts of outlandish things, I'm sure the effect would only be magnified if there were literally no other avenues of information other than your particular cult outlook. That isn't to say that it is an infallible tool. Even in the literature some astartes hopefuls fall short of expectation and either fail to advance into the higher echelons of marine-dom, or are murdered or lobotomized for their perceived failures. This goes to show that even totalitarian indoctrination can fail, so if that is the case then one can assume the doctrine of celibacy is likely to fail from time to time, and given that marines are basically human at their core one would expect the same propensity for homosexual proclivities as the rest of the human population. Homosexual activities tend to be more likely in mono-gender communities and therefore...

The only reason its not spelled out is because I assume the vast majority of the fan base and the writers are extremely uncomfortable with homosexuality. Whether that is because they feel it is immoral or because they do not wish to deal with those who do is probably debatable.

[Deadlift]

I also suspect that for GW and the BL it's no go territory because of the younger audience too, as much as I enjoy BL books they are really just trash literature, basically what mills and boon are to housewives, BL books are to me :)

[Nabterayl]

I guess it does get a bit murky when you consider the minutiae of what exactly a space marine is and isn't. The specific bits seems to vary depending on who is telling the story. If they are simply physically incapable of experiencing sexual urges because of advanced genetic re-engineering then its probably a safe bet that, absent any outright magical influence, they won't be at all interested in getting down.

I'm just not sure if that's the way they are presented. Obviously the topic of sexuality is seldom approached in the literature, and when it is it is generally as puerile as the rest of it. Romance is right out, its either vaguely implied mass rape or monkish abstinence because they're too busy headbutting daemons to worry about date night. I suppose the later eventuality is fine in a sort of "we don't talk about where babies come from to our children" weird way, the former is of course a tricky subject to weave into any story, but becomes far more onerous when it is literally the only depiction of sex ever considered in a particular story.

I'm fairly certain that any barrier to sexual gratification a space marine has is purely psychological however. They are indoctrinated at a young age into a life of battle and celibacy because for some reason, someone thought that would be a good idea a long time ago. Indoctrination is a powerful tool in real life and can lead otherwise perfectly reasonable adults to believe all sorts of outlandish things, I'm sure the effect would only be magnified if there were literally no other avenues of information other than your particular cult outlook. That isn't to say that it is an infallible tool. Even in the literature some astartes hopefuls fall short of expectation and either fail to advance into the higher echelons of marine-dom, or are murdered or lobotomized for their perceived failures. This goes to show that even totalitarian indoctrination can fail, so if that is the case then one can assume the doctrine of celibacy is likely to fail from time to time, and given that marines are basically human at their core one would expect the same propensity for homosexual proclivities as the rest of the human population. Homosexual activities tend to be more likely in mono-gender communities and therefore...

The only reason its not spelled out is because I assume the vast majority of the fan base and the writers are extremely uncomfortable with homosexuality. Whether that is because they feel it is immoral or because they do not wish to deal with those who do is probably debatable.


I also suspect that for GW and the BL it's no go territory because of the younger audience too, as much as I enjoy BL books they are really just trash literature, basically what mills and boon are to housewives, BL books are to me :)
This and this.

[Gotthammer]

Pshaw, it's 'cause they're soft, not 'cause of kids.
The Cain series contains some references, but it does make the 40k universe seem really weird sometimes as nobody talks about sex. I remember reading various Battletech novels when I was around 8-9 years old and they contained probably as much sex as violence, and I turned out... ok, maybe not the best example... but it's a pretty core part of human nature so the lack of any sort of sexuality aside from the ridiculous is noticeable (or the lack of in characters such as Marines should perhaps be notable in some cases). As they say love is only a step to becoming hate, and the BL is good at showing hatred but often poor at showing love (and not romantic love, I mean in a more broad conceptual sense), so displays of camaraderie often comes across as wooden.

Reminds me of one of the HH novels where the POV character was remembering flirting with an army officer and trying on her helmet - often the books lack that sort of natural interaction that occurs, or characters talking about people they are attracted to, because anyone who has ever had a conversation with people will have likely had that conversation. Probably also why I like Dead Men Walking so much as it was about the main character essentially trying to get to his girlfriend, and relating to everything that was happening through that lens, while the Krieg guys were shown to be alien and inhuman by lacking that emotional connection to the events. Same reason why the Marines of the HH books tend towards more inhuman attitudes as they have the remembermancers to play off against so there is still "humanity" in the prose.



And as an aside it would be easy enough, especially considering their other modifications and that the technology exists now, to chemically kill a marine's sex drive. Wouldn't necessarily stop them finding people attractive in an objective sense, but would remove any physical urges.

[Joe Fixit]

So the question should be "would they" and not "could they"

I prefer to think not.

[Magus]

Space Marines don't come with the Chem Geld talent so a temptation for nooky could still work. One the other hand it takes them a while to get their armor on and off so for this to be an issue the seducer would have to have some kind of tech use and armorer skills and probably some familiarity with astartes armor to be effective.
It's also worth noting, in the current fluff, space marines are grabbed just before girls become neat and thrust into an all male society devoted to killing things. Most likely, they'd be into dudes and that makes some people oogy. I'd use that to shut it down if you don't want to deal with it.
I think there was supposed to be a mention in one of Ragnar's books that he still likes the ladies, but it was a divergence supposedly unique to the Space Wolves.

"My... Holy Passage? Noooo!"

[Deadlift]

"My... Holy Passage? Noooo!"

Lol, are you then going to tell us about your day ?

[Dumah]

Regardless of weather *they* want to or not, *I* certainly don't want them to... Without getting too graphic, I imagine it would create quite the mess and not in the usual way. :(

[Dlatrex]

<---- works in hormone replacement.

To take a slightly different slant on it, the original writers may have explained the space marines lack of sexuality (intentionally or not) via the biological process to create the space marines.

::WARNING: SCIENCE CONTENT:: :eek:

The space marine creation process seems takes place concurrently with puberty, with the majority of the implants being administered between the ages of 10-16. Of the implants 2-3 seem to have an endocrine function serving as new "glands" which contribute to the astartes physical development. Foremost in this discussion would be the Ossmodula and Biscopea. The former seems to contribute and direct the actions of somatotrophins (growth hormone), and the Biscopea adds to anabolic performance and development.

If the physiological changes of the space marines had gone a stimulatory route or replacing the signaling of the hypothalamus and pituitary, it would probably result in their bodies being flooded with naturally occurring hormones, with increased effect on mood, disposition, and libido as one would expect to find in a man (or woman!) with huge levels of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. It would probably also produce enormous testicles.

However, this does not seem to be the direction the Emperor took: instead he effectively injected little steroid-producing factories in the initiates body which take over the role of causing the androgenic effects on their physiology. Since this is effectively an exogenous replacement rather than a stimulatory endogenous replacement, all things being equal the body would attempt to down-regulate the production of their innate hormones. Just like a body builder who's taken high doses of anabolic steroids for years, the astartes would probably have completely (or at least severely) atrophied testicles which have retreated into the abdomen. Whether or not this counts as the 'chemical castration' (which I cannot find the actual reference for anywhere) is debatable, but the end result would likely be a similarly atrophied capacity for both sexual function and sexual libido.

In short, the implants should leave them in a state where they are not thinking about having sex, and their body is not in a good position physiologically for intercourse.

Now this assumes that the kids are not particularly precocious, and are still experiencing puberty around the same time as now in M02. It also assumes that the hormones that the glands release do not mimic the role that the missing DHT and Testosterone have in sexual arousal. Heck if the Emperor wanted it to only effect certain aspects of their physiology, and not others, I am sure he could do it.

Far from a clear-cut case, but it certainly is a possibility....

[CarcharodonAstra]

no..... Now end this silly thread

[Kesendeja]

Actually this seems to be one of the better thought out threads.

I doubt GW will ever answer the question directly, so it's up to us to speculate.

My opinion, and take it for what it is, they can, just aren't supposed to have sex or form romantic attachments. But being human its bound to have happened in the past at least once or twice.

Space marines don't live in their armor 24/7 by BL fluff itself, and there isn't anything on what exactly the hormones do to them physically. I could be misremembering but i think that it said somewhere that the implants were supplemental, not replacements. So if that is the case then the flesh would be more than willing.

They are also at their core human, and humans' will form attachments. These attachments can take many forms, but the probability is high that at least in some case's it will be romantic. So the spirit can be willing as well.

The last obstacle is time and indoctrination.

Given the schedule given for a space marine's day in one of the books (can't remember which) they are kept busy almost every minute of the day. So sneaking off for sex isn't much of an option. But why keep them so busy and focused if they don't want to engage in proscribed activities. That and the whole space marine culture is built on an order of warrior monks. Given several real world examples, celibacy is expected but not always followed.

In a way Space Marines are rather tragic figures, forever forsaking love for duty.

[Psychosplodge]

They do get fifteen minutes a day free time, that's enough time to do it at least twice...

[Wildeybeast]

In a single 15 minute block? Dude, you a machine...

[Psychosplodge]

Well, you have to leave time for forplay or I'm you could squeeze more in...

[Wildeybeast]

I'd imagine the Space Marine attempt at foreplay would be even more clumsy and awkward than the average man.

[Psychosplodge]

Probably, then again space marines are all about direct action...

[Minibem]

Because the internet is only good for nerd stuff and porn. This fulfills both criteria.

Being a new member and slowly but surely catching up with everything but I think that this is the best thing someone has written!

[Psychosplodge]

He did miss off cat videos. But that wouldn't be covered by this thread...

[Minibem]

He did miss off cat videos. But that wouldn't be covered by this thread...

What is it with cat video's? Maybe I am missing something, they are funny for a while but then they get a bit boring!

Sorry I digress,

If Marines did have sex do you think that Chaplin's take confession

"Forgive me Chaplin for I have sinned against the emperor, I have not been using my power fist in the correct way recently.... "

[Psychosplodge]

It's one of the foundations of the internet.

Not another powerfisting joke...:rolleyes:

[Power Klawz]

Look all that we're saying here is that love CAN bloom on the battlefield.

[Wildeybeast]

He did miss off cat videos. But that wouldn't be covered by this thread...

I'm sure you meant to write 'pony'.

In other news welcome to the forum minbem and thanks for compliment!

[jgebi]

well I've been reading these books since I was 13 and have adopted alot of their way of thinking (and theirs a very good reason) and honestly for all the lore I've read I could see no reason but I think it would be more as a release and less like a need, so properly find their chapter serfs are good for this and I don't think they would with anyone ales just how it would work out and all. and dam this tread is funny, and just wondering how many of us have looked up 40k porn? even just as a joke

[Psychosplodge]

I'm sure you meant to write 'pony'.

While I'd love that, it's not true, the internet is based around hate,geekery,cat videos, and porn...


and just wondering how many of us have looked up 40k porn? even just as a joke

Rule 34, you don't even need to look, browse enough 40k fan art and it finds you...

[jgebi]

that is true very true

[Minibem]

I'm sure you meant to write 'pony'.

In other news welcome to the forum minbem and thanks for compliment!

My pleasure and thanks for the welcome :)

[The Last Lamenter]

Hey, you are from Knoxville! I am from chattanooga! How bout all these uk folk and Canadians? Up in up on their 40k lore aren't they? Dude, represent TN!