I hate 1750 and 1850 pt tournaments

[Flammenwerfer13]

Seriously if you're worried about time for the tournament then you're doing it wrong.

1750 and 1850 bring nothing but a 1500 point list with something ad hoc tacked on to fill out the army list.

Now I'm a IG player and have three different list I run, my Air Cav, my Ryza Regiment and my actually competitive list (which I rarely bring out since I like a challenge and shooting a army off the table gets old quick).

My whole area everyone plays at 2000 point list and all the tournaments are 2000 (central-south eastern NC), yet I go almost anywhere else and it's almost always 1850 pt tournaments. I hear the same two arguments over and over. Time limits and 'player skill'. I call BS on both. If you're worried about time as an organizer then you're doing it wrong and not properly planning out the times. If you're claiming skill that's a red herring. Why not run 500 or 1500 pt tournaments instead? Skill will always shine through in the end.

That being said I can complete at 200pt Kill team list through 2500 with no issues (thank god the IG codex skills very well). But I've found that at 2000 pts good army lists really fill out and bring the best of the newest codices to the table. All 5th Edition Codices are built with 2000 points armies in mind.


So why this sudden uptick in 1850 pt tournaments in the last six months?

[bethor]

1850 breaks my ork soul as well. 1500 is great fun, 2k is greater fun.
I agree that 1850 lists are a bit of ******* child. I understand the need to make sure that the games finish in under 2 hours. Less toys go faster. I get it.
That being said, 1500 point games are better if you can't commit to the 2k. They finish faster, and every codex can play at 1500. They have the added challenge of making the best all comers list you can without taking 1 of everything.
2000 point lists let you cover your bases, and leave it all on the table. No excuses of "I didn't plan for (4 Landraiders) (150 boyz) (7 Monsters) (any other absurd list)."
At 1850, the only list I've drawn up that I like is with my blood angels. I take 1850 tourneys as an excuse to play them.
I don't know why 1850 has become so popular, but I wish we'd all move down to the leisurely fun of the 1500 for all but the greatest of GTs, where 2k should be king.

[MattHoell]

While like you, I like 2k games better, the whole nation pretty much plays 1750-1850.

Here's why:

1. Time: I read your answer, but you have to realize is that most tournaments run from the morning and end before dinner. Generally speaking that leaves about 8 hours of gaming, figure 1 hour for lunch, and 2 half hour breaks so tabulate scores and you are looking at 2 hour rounds, which is the right amount of time for 1750-1850. Where 2k usually takes 2.5 hours.

2. At the 1750-1850, you get to bring one or two bells and whistles, but for the most part you need a lean mean fighting machine, 2k is everything and the kitchen sink.

Take a look at the entire nation circuit, they are almost all in the 1750-1850 range.

[Charistoph]

My LGS runs 1000 point tournaments, almost evey month, in fact. They are oddballs, usually with unusual FOC requirements ( 3 FA required, or nothing required), and they are all well received.

As for 1850, not all codices can compete beyond that level well, and it's a good point for a competitive list without having everything. It's also a little easier to obtain models than 2000 points. Heck, my LGS just went to 1850 for the "official" tournaments after years of 1750.

But, boo hoo, you're playing the army which can out point any other army by at least a factor of 3, if not more, with the standard FOC build (heaven help anyone if it's Planetstrike!), and it's all effective! It may change when all the 4th Edition books are finally gone, we'll have to see, but until then, there is a level of practicality that has to be in place.

[AbusePuppy]

I, also, am angry about the way other people play the game! I know that my opinions are facts and that other people's opinions are stupid!

In fact, not only are their opinions stupid and wrong, but they are also impossible and I have proven it with math that I will not allow you to see. But trust me on this one, as I am inevitably right about everything.

Why doesn't everyone else just make things easy for themselves and agree with me on this (and every) subject? Is there some reason they keep insisting on being wrong all the time? Can anyone tell me why?


But, boo hoo, you're playing the army which can out point any other army by at least a factor of 3, if not more, with the standard FOC build
Incorrect, sir; the winner of "most points for a FoC" (not counting unlimited choices like Lesser Daemons) is, in fact, Blood Angels, at 26,611 points. IG clocks in ~500 below that as I recall.

[the jeske]

So why this sudden uptick in 1850 pt tournaments in the last six months?
2k too good for IG. most people dont play IG. most judges and orgs will have more players/friends not playing IG. ergo a setting good for IG is not good. that is why for example euro land is mostly 1500.

[Chris Copeland]

I, on the other hand, LOVE 1850 games! Now, my favorite point level is 1500. If I MUST go above 1500 then send me to 1850. I'll play 2000 point games if I must. I lose interest at 2500...

So... it takes all kinds in this hobby! Cheers! Copeland

PS I'm a Tyranid player who runs as many Genestealers as I can fit on the table, so it's not like I couldn't USE the points... I just prefer smaller games. When I play WarmaHordes (my primary game) I prefer 35 point games...

[Flammenwerfer13]

I, also, am angry about the way other people play the game! I know that my opinions are facts and that other people's opinions are stupid!

In fact, not only are their opinions stupid and wrong, but they are also impossible and I have proven it with math that I will not allow you to see. But trust me on this one, as I am inevitably right about everything.

Why doesn't everyone else just make things easy for themselves and agree with me on this (and every) subject? Is there some reason they keep insisting on being wrong all the time? Can anyone tell me why?


Incorrect, sir; the winner of "most points for a FoC" (not counting unlimited choices like Lesser Daemons) is, in fact, Blood Angels, at 26,611 points. IG clocks in ~500 below that as I recall.

Thank you for bringing nothing to the discussion! At least you're a humorous troll :)

[fuzzbuket]

i actually really like 1750 pt games! it means you can have your 1500 pt list and a few fancy extras: but not as many as a 2000pt game!

[MrGiggles]

I've learned to play my Orks quickly so that I'm not in other people's way so to speak. When you run a horde list, you rather have to do something like that.

In terms of game size though, I can do whatever. I actually like games in the 1000 point or less range, but I'm also conscious that not everybody has 6 point troops. It can be a hard place to play for some lists.

To that end, I'm pretty happy with 1500 or 1850 since they both seem to take a reasonable (and similar in my area) amount of time. When you go to 2000 though, things seem to balloon. I'm not sure why that time gap exists where I play, but it does. That said, most of the tourneys around here are 1500, 1850 singles or a 2000 point team format.

[Flammenwerfer13]

It most be my area since if you're playing over 2 hours for a game at 2000 points you're either running a horde list (Orks, IG, or Nids) or you're new to the game. Otherwise almost all games take between 90 and 110 minutes.

Again my point is why play 1750-1850 if they're really just 1500 with a few extra's? If it's about time you're doing it waaaayyyyy wrong.

[AbusePuppy]

Thank you for bringing nothing to the discussion! At least you're a humorous troll :)

Says the person who started a thread by telling everyone they were "doing it wrong" and that you were "calling BS."

Irony police gonna getcha', boy.

[newtoncain]

Lower point games are better for Hoard type lists. Nids and Orcs @ 1500 are tough to beat, even worse the lower you go.

[AnEnemy]

Can't quite fit as many melta vets in Vendettas as you want in 1850 huh?

[mysterex]

IMO building a 1500 point list requires more thought than a larger point one simply because you have to really choose which toys to leave out while still being able to successfully complete all the missions at an event. At 2000 points it's easier to simply bring along all your favourites.

Consequently I prefer the 1500 point games.

[Flammenwerfer13]

Says the person who started a thread by telling everyone they were "doing it wrong" and that you were "calling BS."

Irony police gonna getcha', boy.

I presented my point of view and my opinion (which from both your post you have shown to clearly grasp) and ask for both your opinion on why this is common and thoughts on it.

You've only provided a cliche troll response that achieved nothing and provided nothing to the thread.
Congratulations!

[Flammenwerfer13]

Can't quite fit as many melta vets in Vendettas as you want in 1850 huh?

Actually no I tend to run a pure Air Cav list with Assaulting Vets. I have (at 2000 pts) 7 plasma guns and 8 Melta guns and 3x flamers. I'd run more plasma guns but apparently you can't assault with them so melta guns it is for now.

[Kaiserdean]

It most be my area since if you're playing over 2 hours for a game at 2000 points you're either running a horde list (Orks, IG, or Nids) or you're new to the game. Otherwise almost all games take between 90 and 110 minutes.

Again my point is why play 1750-1850 if they're really just 1500 with a few extra's? If it's about time you're doing it waaaayyyyy wrong.

*Face palm*

Your 1,750-1,850 point list may be similar to your 1,500 point list but you do not speak for everyone. Frankly, telling everyone that they are playing/building their armies "waaaayyyyy wrong" is presumptuous, pompous, and conceited.

You are certainly within your right to form your own opinion on your opponent's list and their play style, and you are within your right to play at a pace you're comfortable with, however, you clearly didn't want to start a discussion here because you've called the posters who disagree with you as trolls and you preemptively called the two largest reasons for the point limit as "BS." I'm not sure why you posted the question about the uptick in 1,850 point tourneys if you don't want to listen to valid arguments.

I will argue that most players will play 1,750-1,850 point armies faster than a 2,000. I'm a fast player myself but I understand that the number of models to move around and tactical decisions for those units will make for longer game play to more points you bring to the table. (Obviously, a large sit-and-shoot army that doesn't move may play faster than a smaller rounded-list that uses all three main phases.) I will also argue that player skill is a factor because many new players don't have 2000 point armies ready to drop on the table and this will allow new players to join in the fun and give incentive for them to add new units to their armies to work towards larger games. Also, less skilled players aren't as familiar with other armies and they will ask more questions, read rules and ask for clarifications during game play, which can slow things down. I wouldn't call any of these factors as "BS" reasons for a 1,850 point tourney.

I also take issue with calling out tournament organizers and the job that they do for you. While you may not like the point limit that some tourneys are running, it's up to you to choose to play in that event. Tournament organizers have many types of players to work with when making a tournament, ranging from brand new gamers, experienced competitive players, to causal gamers who would just like to play for fun. While some organizers snooze their way through it, it is a tough job to make sure that everyone has a rewarding time. I've seen many new players become frustrated with the game and quit because tournament snobs have crushed them on the tabletop and broke their spirit through snarky and degrading comments while playing. From the tone of your posts, I would hazard a guess that you haven't run a tournament yourself and you may have a different prospective if you organized a few events.

Also, congratulations on telling us how great gamer you are at 200-2,500 point games!

[Levitas]

I think you can learn a lot from your own army and others by playing at different point levels. I dont think one is better than the other, while speed difference is marginal and often requires context. If your spending the day playing 40k then who really cares how big the games are? Just have fun and maybe learn something new.

If your store says its running smaller games because of time, it really means they want to get home to feed the cat and not wait for you to get one more turn in. :p

[MattHoell]

It most be my area since if you're playing over 2 hours for a game at 2000 points you're either running a horde list (Orks, IG, or Nids) or you're new to the game. Otherwise almost all games take between 90 and 110 minutes.

Ok I will concede that since I don't play where you do. But by your own admittance in a tournament you can expect the play horde armies or people who are new. Trust me nothing pisses a player off more than losing a game that only went to turn 3 to no fault of your own.

Put yourself in those shoes, I am a new player with an orc army and you play me in a tourn in round 1. Most of the other tables finish all their turns but you and I only get to turn 3, and because of that you lose or tie, effectively taking you out of winning the tourn. Wouldn't that make you really mad?

Games like that happen all the time, that's why good OT either build 2.5hours games, or limit the points to under 2k.

[AbusePuppy]

I presented my point of view and my opinion (which from both your post you have shown to clearly grasp) and ask for both your opinion on why this is common and thoughts on it.

You've only provided a cliche troll response that achieved nothing and provided nothing to the thread.
Congratulations!

You insulted from the get-go anyone who didn't agree with you and posted a thread that was practically begging for "me, too!"s and flamebait. You got exactly what you should've expected.

Or did you think that telling people they were "doing it wrong" and implying that anyone who doesn't finish a 2K game in two hours is stupid was going to get you a thoughtful and gentlemanly discussion? If so, have you ever spoken with a human being before? Because that's not how humans work.

[the jeske]

I dont think that he was trolling or trying to flame . If IG was my main army , I would be pissesd too if all tournaments were low points . rate of fire doesnt work for non GK armies at low points.