Quick Landraider question

[Bedroom General]

I'm wondering whats so bad about the plain ol' land raider. I've used one at least for ages in my CSM lists, possessed mind you. So here's the thing I've been pondering about the Imperial version
.
What am I not getting about a 12" move then POTM twin linked at BS4 lascannon?
Isn't that a considerable threat from greater range than the other variants?
Especially dangerous from 24" and closer with a pintle mounted Multi melta.

I'm a new to "goodguy" space marines so help would be appreciated.
I'm gathering my forces slowly and happen to have a Landraider kit that I never built up for my CSM. So naturally I'm interested in that "godhammer" pattern, and I can scrounge a Multi melta from somewhere.

[Kawauso]

There's nothing wrong with the Godhammer-pattern Land Raider. It works just fine.

Its primary disadvantages are cost and transport capacity, obviously.

As far as competitive gaming is concerned, it's often considered too expensive for what it does, especially since meltaguns are so commonplace in a lot of armies. That's my understanding, at least.

In less competitive environments, however, it will likely perform just fine. Just remember though that even the mighty Land Raider can be taken out by a lucky lascannon shot, or immobilized on difficult terrain like anything else.

[Houghten]

There's nothing especially bad about it, but it's a jack of all trades and a master of none. It's got a smaller transport capacity than the Crusader and no frag launchers, it's got a schizophrenic weapons set that's half anti-tank and half anti-infantry, and if it's sitting at the back sniping at tanks then it's not making use of its transport capacity but if it's delivering troops then it's not making full use of its weapons.

I still like them, but it's much easier to know what to do with a Crusader - it is very specifically designed for a single purpose, namely to cruise up the board, dump all its ammo into the biggest mob in sight and unleash the Terminators.

[Pendragon38]

Its not that bad, I think it gets used wrong sometimes. so no girp here I like it as a smash and bash if I need to make a grab for some VPs at the last turn:cool:

[DarkLink]

I find it's generally better than most people give it credit for. Crusaders and Redeemers force you to drive at the enemy and hope they don't have meltaguns or something to stop you. Not that great of a bet. Godhammers, however, can sit back and pop Rhinos from a distance until the time is right, then go on the assault.

It depends on what's in the rest of your list, but the Godhammer is a far, far better counter-assault platform than the other Land Raiders. As a former Daemonhunters player, Godhammers were my bread and butter from the start of 5th ed until the new GK codex came out, since the only way to win was to kite the opponent until you thinned them out just enough for an aggressive counter charge.

The Crusader is pretty good, but it's only really useful within a range that allows your opponent to easily destroy it with meltaguns. The Redeemer suffers from this even more, and can't even move and shoot its weapons effectively.

[AbusePuppy]

There are a couple problems with the Godhammer/Phobos (the latter being the "correct" name for it, I believe) Land Raider.

The first is the chin weapon- a Heavy Bolter is simply worst than an Assault Cannon in every meaningful way.

The second is the transport capacity- ten models doesn't allow an IC to tag along with the Terminators inside, which is often needed for Gate, Null Zone, Unleash Rage, etc.

The third is its fire rate- moving 6", you can shoot the two Lascannons or one + the bolt-on Multimelta. A Crusader doing the same can fire its entire arsenal (MM at one target, AC + sponsons at another), and the extended range of the Lascannon is unlikely to matter on a vehicle that wants to be moving forward to deliver its contents to the enemy.

So what you end up with is a tank with the same cost as the other primary choice and has basically the same anti-tank capacity at the range it usually lives at (two Lascannons or LC + MM as opposed to MM + AC) but lower transport capacity.

Is it horrible? No, not really, but it has effectively no advantage compared to its brethren, which is what makes it "bad" in most peoples' eyes- it's strictly worse than the competing units.

[Tynskel]

I find the redeemer great. just moving 12" and firing one of its guns is good. You get a good flamestorm cannon hit, and your troubles are gone. Unlike the crusader, which can dump all of its firepower into something, and not do nearly the damage.

[Lovecraft]

I've always had a soft spot for the Godhammer Land Raider. I think it all comes down to how you use it. I'll send mine across the board six inches at a time, taking the two lascannon shots on any light-to-medium armor I need to pop. It may only be able to hod ten guys, but as long as you don't mind missing an IC (or can drop down to a 9 man squad and attach the IC) I haven't had that be a huge problem. It's still one of the best ways to get long-range anti-armor for Space Marines IMO, plus you can take your shots while being well out of Melta range.

I think in the end it just depends on your play style and what you want the LR to do.

[AbusePuppy]

IG gets the Rifleman Dread, Dakka Pred, Land Speeders, LasPlas Razors, heavy weapons in Tactical Squads, Sternguard, and more. Why would the Land Raider be considered "one of the best ways to get long-range anti-armor"? It's... it's not even in the top ten.

[bethor]

I run a somewhat stupid black templar list with 2 Crusaders and Godhammer. They have very different jobs.
The Crusaders do the moving up and unleashing angry men in black. The Godhammer sits back and shoots stuff, protecting the five guys who just happen to be camping a home objective.
I think that if you are only taking 1 landraider, and you need to move, the Crusader is the tank of choice for all the obvious reasons.

[Cuddy]

Let me put it this way; for 250 points you can get a LR Godhammer with a twin linked lascannon, or for 105 points you could get a predator with a twin linked lascannon, or for 165 points you can get a predator spewing out over twice as much lsacannnon death as the Godhammer for 85 less points.

The Godhammer is just too expensive to sit back and not function as an assault transport, and if you're using it as an assault transport there's no reason why the other weapon sets/transport capacities aren't better.

[Demonus]

Well to be fair, you are getting TWO twin linked lascannons on that godhammer, not to mention for those 85pts, you are are immune to str 7 or less weapons, which the predator cannot boast at all, you can carry troops, and fire 2 weapons at 6inches, 1 weapon at 12 (which the predator can do neither of)

Also the predator has 1 target for those 3 shots if it doesnt move, the LR can take out 2 targets. And are the sponsons on a Predator twin linked?

[DarkLink]

Godhammers are just about the ultimate counter assault transport in the game. There is a reason for their existence and use. Though their smaller transport capacity is kind of annoying.

[Cuddy]

Well to be fair, you are getting TWO twin linked lascannons on that godhammer, not to mention for those 85pts, you are are immune to str 7 or less weapons, which the predator cannot boast at all, you can carry troops, and fire 2 weapons at 6inches, 1 weapon at 12 (which the predator can do neither of)

Also the predator has 1 target for those 3 shots if it doesnt move, the LR can take out 2 targets. And are the sponsons on a Predator twin linked?


The 85 points is for a Pred with a twin linked lascannon replacing the autocannon. You can make better configs, but it's a little more of a direct comparison. You don't normally need that much movement with lascannons due to thier range anyway, and the Pred's AV 13 to the enemy isn't bad at all.

I'm not saying that the Godhammer is bad, its just that Space Marines have other options (such as Predators, Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer) that can fill those roles for less points, or more efficiently. Anti tank weapons, from Razorbacks to Predators, Land Speeders to Devastators are already mobile, cheap and plentiful in the SM codices.The Crusader is just better at being a transport as well, at the not-steep-cost-at-all of replacing the lascannons with a twin-linked assault cannon and frag launchers. Its ideal for bringing in terminators, which is what most people use them for.

The Godhammer isn't bad or overcosted. It's just competing with some amazing competition.

[Kawauso]

Though their smaller transport capacity is kind of annoying.

Unless you're playing vanilla SM, with their inexplicably larger transport capacity of 12. :)
Same with their drop pods.

[bfmusashi]

The Codex Astartes has an entire section dedicated to the efficient loading of transports.

[Kawauso]

"The Codex Astartes names this maneuver an invasion of personal space."

[bfmusashi]

Just lean back and think of the skies over Macragge.

[Wolfshade]

"The Codex Astartes names this maneuver an invasion of personal space."
:D
Ultramarines just like to hug

[bfmusashi]

:D
Ultramarines just like to hug

The Minotaurs however....

[Paul]

That's nothing.

The Black Templars can put assault marines in Land Raiders - imagine how cramped THAT would be!

[wolflold]

I prefere the plain'ol land raider! I use em with assault terminator combo. With the lascannons you can shoot armour/transport (even at 2 targets), slowly close in, termies get out an start bashing with thunder hammers. Don't need frag launchers! But i have to admit i rather have a assault cannon then the heavy bolter mount, ah well...