3rd Party Miniatures.

[Just_Me]

What is the general consensus among both readers and your gaming communities about using 3rd party models in 40k games? Insofar as there is an "official" ruling on the subject GW is (perhaps understandably) pretty hellbent on discouraging the use of other manufacturers miniatures in their games, but at the same time many other companies produce models which are either very adaptable to the 40k setting, or even fairly blatant replacements/substitutes for the GW range. I am however more interested in what the community thinks about the inclusion of such miniatures in general casual pick-up play. Would seeing other manufactures models across the table from you be a plus or a minus, or would you simply not care one way or another?

[Chris Copeland]

For a pick up game? For me that means, "Bring what you want, play what you want." Seriously, this is OUR game. We spend the money to buy the rulebooks and take the time to paint the models: as long as I can tell WHAT everything is I am OK with you fielding any company's models that you want to.

I specifically want to build and Empire army in WFB because I have a number of minis by Reaper that I want to use that just won't fit in to my Lizardman army... they will, however, make great special characters in an Empire army!

GW makes great minis. I also like their rules (though I think they aren't as good as the rules put out by Privateer Press). Use what you wish. Play with the minis you want to use. If anyone complains then find new people tp play with!

Cheers! Copeland

[Panxer]

Merp. Please delete this posting.

[plasticaddict]

For non GW sponsored events (Indy GTs, pick up games etc.) I have entire armies for both 40k and WFB that have no GW models in them. I've even gone so far as to build a 40k army out of a codex I don't really like just to be able to field third party models that I like. I've never had any problems with my opponents when I want to play my "counts as" armies.

[eldargal]

3rd party models = variety. Variety = good. The only rule my club has in regards to 3rd party models is that weaponry on rank and file troops and vehicles has to be GW or recognisable for what it is supposed to represent, just so people can look at it and know what they are facing.

[Houghten]

I'd love to use some 3rd party models, but I do all of my gaming in a GW store...

[Wildeybeast]

For a pick up game? For me that means, "Bring what you want, play what you want." Seriously, this is OUR game. We spend the money to buy the rulebooks and take the time to paint the models: as long as I can tell WHAT everything is I am OK with you fielding any company's models that you want to.

I specifically want to build and Empire army in WFB because I have a number of minis by Reaper that I want to use that just won't fit in to my Lizardman army... they will, however, make great special characters in an Empire army!

GW makes great minis. I also like their rules (though I think they aren't as good as the rules put out by Privateer Press). Use what you wish. Play with the minis you want to use. If anyone complains then find new people tp play with!

Cheers! Copeland

I agree with this 100%. I have a number of Reaper and other company minins that I use as captians and now witch hunters in my Empire army, particularly female ones as GW seems to have a curious idea that only female elves fight. As long as I make it clear to my opponent what things are at the start, no one minds. For me, it's exactly the same as using 'counts as' models. If you are going to an official GW event, it's obviously a no no as it's just a bit rude, btu in casual games why not, as long as your opponent has no objections.

[inquisitorsog]

Other than for GW sponsored events (and GW stores), I wasn't even aware there was a debate about it when I was a WFB player. I get it that GW doesn't want you showcasing others' minis at their events (especially b/c they may want to take pictures for marketing). It's really only in the 40k-verse that this question seems to come up among fans.

As a player, I don't care about 3d party as long as it's reasonably WYSIWYG. That is as long as third party is an honest third party and not someone recasting GW minis for sale.

I think the players who complain about 3d parties are the same kind as the people who would only ever by a Toyota and would never look at another car. They've made up their mind that GW is better or proper for one reason or another and trying to convince those kind of folks otherwise is like trying to pull the teef of an angry ork.

[Pendragon38]

I've been using HITECH minis to fill in my land speeders and Tech-marines, and they send out sprockets with there stuff.

[mikethefish]

When they are released in a month or so i shall be using Mantic Games' Veer-Myn models as a Hrud army. The rules shall be "counts as" Dark Eldar. Even with this wierdness I doubt I will have a problem with any local players or even with the bigger indi tournaments (ie - the only ones worth attending). If folks don't want to play against it, I'm not too concerned - their loss.

[L192837465]

It's a game. Play with what you want.

[AnEnemy]

My local GW black shirt doesn't mind 3rd party minis in the store as long as a) GW doesn't offer the model in their range or b) it has some GW parts or c) its fielded alongside GW models. No full 3rd party armies in other words. Likewise, if someone asks where you got it you advertise for them away from the customers.

To the Tau baby: why would GW put out a new Tau codex when people like you don't buy their models. It's a business. Food for thought.

[ragnarcissist]

the local gw i play at still lets me use my 3rd party twolves. the manager said its ok because "we didnt release the new models until 2 years after the codex, im not gonna punish you for not waiting" real nice dude...

[bethor]

I prefer to play with and against painted GW minis. I take no shame in saying that. GW makes some of the best models on the market.
That being said, I have ork kits from several manufacturers mixed in for variety, along with some conversions and scratchbuilts.
I had the "pleasure" of playing against some third party imperial guard a few weeks ago. The game was okay, and you can't fault a guy for tying to save money, but those dudes across the table were fugly.
So more to the point: I will agree with the consensus. If I can tell what it is, and its roughly the right scale, and it has the right base, put it on the table and lets throw some dice.

[mikethefish]

Bethor what models were they, just out of curiosity

[bethor]

I'm not 100% certain. They looked very similar to the old Warzone! models in styling, but weren't quite as bulky.
They were perfectly WYSIWIG (except autoguns vs lasguns). They had very limited detail and the arms were a bit fat. larger than the legs.
I hadn't seen them before, and I failed to ask.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I generally prefer GW stuff. Having said that, if I can figure out what the model is, than I'm okay with it.

For example, I'd much rather play a nice looking 3rd party mini that I can recognize than some busted-up piece of GW plastic that "counts as" something completely different. My son has some Wargames Factory miniatures that look absolutely great in my opinion.

[Wolfshade]

My group and I play exclusively GW minis. This wasn't out of any snobery or concious act, moreover it was just the models we have.
For our group, like many here, the line is crossed when you can no longer tell what it is that you are facing, though that has never happened. As we are all friends we are not terribly hung up on what is correct, the worst proxying that has ever occured was with paper print-outs of a nid list; which was annoying, but that was just while he was trying something new out.
The models are an important aspect of the hobby just as the rules are.
I would be disapointed if I were to play against someone who had a collection of monopoly counters, army men and lego bricks saying it was a counts-as X.

[Panxer]

Personally, GW doesn't get anymore of my money until they put out a long deserved and needed Tau codex, BUT I digress...

It's a GAME. Treat it as such. Though I agree that 'proxying' can get a little out of hand. I've had a kid out here in Richmond dump a padlock out on the table and call it a 'dreadnaught', so yeah...I do have a line, but otherwise, GW doesn't dictate to me what my imagination can handle, so if I have a comparable model from Scibor or Pig Iron (which make AWESOME looking SM captains, Ordo inquisitors, and IG stormtroopers), or the GW/Forgeworld model is just dumb looking or doesn't match the cannon or fluff, then I either modify or find an appropriate model which matches my view of the aesthetic which matches my army.

So there! :p

[woodenronin]

I really don't mind, as long as you can tell what the model is supposed to represent. If that person put in some kind of effort, why not. Every player has a different vision of their army. And every player sure has a different budget,and resources. Also, house rule: If you use padlocks for dreadnoughts you owe me 25 push ups before that game. And if you use it again you better paint it and base it

[Wolfshade]

Also, house rule: If you use padlocks for dreadnoughts you owe me 25 push ups before that game. And if you use it again you better paint it and base it
My imperial fist dreadnought now PRE PAINTED :eek::eek:
http://www.manchestertools.co.uk/images/imagecache/100x100_rt66520.jpg

[Drunkencorgimaster]

My imperial fist dreadnought now PRE PAINTED :eek::eek:
http://www.manchestertools.co.uk/images/imagecache/100x100_rt66520.jpg

Ha! That was good.

-Seriously though, a padlock? The guy played with a freakin' padlock? And here I thought I had seen some bad "counts as" substitutions...

[L192837465]

Ha! That was good.

-Seriously though, a padlock? The guy played with a freakin' padlock? And here I thought I had seen some bad "counts as" substitutions...

My god... it's like you knew what the model was! Those thieves cheated someone by playing a model that was OBVIOUSLY what they said it was at the beginning of the game, possibly to test play it before actually buying the miniature.


Seriously. Guys. IT'S A GAME. Get over yourselves and let people play with whatever mans they want to. You're all mostly grown adults. Use some of that noggin and just ask or remember what things are.

[inquisitorsog]

My god... it's like you knew what the model was! Those thieves cheated someone by playing a model that was OBVIOUSLY what they said it was at the beginning of the game, possibly to test play it before actually buying the miniature.


Seriously. Guys. IT'S A GAME. Get over yourselves and let people play with whatever mans they want to. You're all mostly grown adults. Use some of that noggin and just ask or remember what things are.

How dare you suggest that someone who can't pay up for becoming a member of our little club be allowed in!

Shocking!!!
:rolleyes:

[chromedog]

I've been gaming for around 27ish years. In this time, I've played a variety of TT miniatures games, and have accrued an army or two for all of them. Not all of these games are still around or being played, but I still have the miniatures. Most of them have analogues to the "human" based forces of 40k. They were used in RT 40k games, a game which allowed a lot greater flexibility with models and minis (vehicles especially, since they didn't have many, but the rules allowed for so much more).

Why wouldn't I use them in 40k? Power armoured troops are power armoured troops, whether they are 7' tall genetically modified superfreaks or average joes in PA. Regular grunts are regular grunts. Tanks are tanks.

My SM army has models by Mantic (The Jotunn Hailstorm cannon makes a good Thunderfire cannon), my guard has models by Copplestone castings, Foundry and Grenadier, as well as pig iron, Scotia Grendel and Reaper (my rough riders are on VOID "akira" styled bikes, my tanks are by Pig Iron, my infantry is by a range of people).

I don't play in a GW store, so any such limitation for me is irrelevant. I pity those who have no option but to play in a GW store (we have 13 GW stores in my state - 11 of them are located in Sydney. The other two are the "regional" focus GW uses) there are so many better places to play.

There is (or rather, WAS) a "GW models only" purist in my club. Thankfully, he has now stopped gaming. He would only play GW games, and decried them as the be-all and end-all of gaming. That kind of narrow-mindedness is what kills a gaming hobby more than an openness to seeing what else is out there.

All this is now an irrelevancy for 40k now for me - I have discovered Tomorrow's War, a set of rules that allows me to use models by various makers, with the flexibility to fit them in like RT 40k had. Where humans in powered armour are humans in powered armour, tanks are tanks, and regular grunts are regular grunts.

[greendestiny]

I like the variety. Play with what you want. It is your money, it is just a game and if it is fun for both people then it doesn't matter. I taught my friends how to play Warmachine with GW paint pots!