Pro Painted armies on Ebay

[doublek666]

Come on people! You probably aren't a professional miniature painter, in fact usually when I see that I know right away it's bull$h!t! Anyway most pro painted armies I've seen look fine as a cohesive force on a table, but are kind of sloppy. Which is the point I guess, but don't list your army on Ebay when you know dang well the paint job is crap, or you need glasses or my standards are to high. Or I'm just a jerk. Not everyone is a pro painter. It's ok, just put painted army in the description and stop fooling yourselves, and trying to fool a potential buyer.

[Foxhound2delta]

Second that!!

[Drunkencorgimaster]

Third That! It is ridiculous what kind of crap is listed as "Pro Painted" and 98 out of 100 times if you email the seller and ask who the "pro" was he/she will be actually baffled by your question.

[Mystery.Shadow]

If you pay someone to do a service, no matter the amount. It is, by definition; PROFESSIONAL.

[energongoodie]

Fourthed. It is becoming a meaningless title.

[MarneusCalgar]

Totally agree...

As Energongoodie said, it has become a meaningless title... Many people with their armies painted try to sell them in a more expensive way with that "Propainted" etiquette... but as all of you said, not all the Propainted are so Pro...

I should understand that a Golden Demon winner sells a Propainted miniature, but a person who has not that painting level... that can be a good painted mini, but not a pro level

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

My rule of thumb is that if it doesn't mention the "pro" it was painted by, it isn't pro-painted.

If the models were painted by an actual acclaimed professional, they're going to brag about it.

[presto15]

I apologize if this sounds like me being a troll, but it is a pet-peeve of mine.

Pro- does not mean well painted or expert painted. It simply means that you get paid for doing a service, like what Mystery.Shadow said.

If they list it as expert painted, or well painted that is a different story, and is entirely dependent on perspective, or the "Eye of the Beholder."

Anyone can be a professional, as long as you got paid for the service. I once based, and undercoated a friends army for $20. It was a simple job and took me 30 minutes, but I got paid to do it, and by definition I am a "pro."

[fuzzbuket]

look at it the other way, no-ones going to buy a 'nicely painted' mini opposed to a 'professionally painted' mini are they :P

and on the subject i am selling a nicely painted mordak and a nicley painted sanguinary priest!

-fuzz

*it wouldn't be me if i didn't shamelessly self promote at every opportunity would it :D

[TorinBlack]

My favorite one recently was the "partially propainted" troll bloods. "Partially propainted?" frankly they looked like complete crap.

[Tamwulf]

If you've ever been paid to paint a miniature, you're a pro. ;) It's a bit meaningless now, so I pretty much just ignore it when I'm shopping around on those websites.

As a side note, I gave up painting for $$ a long time ago.

Materials
$25.00 for mini
$10 for glue, accelerator, putty, pins
$50 for tools (clippers, files, drill)
$10 for automotive primer
$52.50 Paint... well, $3.50/paint pot, so how many colors do you use? I typically use about 15.
$50 Brushes- I use Windsor Newtons and whatever else, typically 2-3 different brushes
$25 basing materials... or free if I just go outside and use some dirt/twigs or whatever, so I'll call it $0.
$197.50 Total

In materials cost alone, I'm spending about $200. Granted, I can use these on multiple minis, but I'm going to need more paints and brushes, and then the cost of the extra minis will have to be added.

Actually painting the model- single model, very high quality, I'll be spending 15+ hours on a single model. Let's say I'm doing a squad of Space Marines- and I'll cut a few corners, maybe primer in a base color with an airbrush (more costs, but cuts down on time), not so many highlights, figure 10 hours/mini, plus an extra 5 hours prep work (assembly, primer) that's 105 hours. If I turn around and sell that squad for $150 (if I could get that much!), I'd be looking at a loss of $50 from materials and I'm out 105 hours of work. I'd have to charge at least $200 to break even on materials alone, and I'm not going to get that much for 10 Space Marines. So I'll end up doing multiple squads at a not so high quality to absorb the cost of materials and hopefully make a profit after the 5th such batch of 10 models. That's 50 Space Marines in 5 batches sold for $150/batch. Let's say I cut the time/mini down to 12 hours/model and you're looking at 600 hours of work. I work about 50-60 hours per week at my full time job, so I'm looking at the equivalent of 10 weeks of work... which is about $20,000 for me. Do you think I'm going to make $20,000 painting minis? :lol:

To make any kind of profit from painting minis, you have to paint fast, and charge high. In the above example, in order to make a profit worth my time (say, $15/hour which is fair), I'd have to charge $1775 for those 10 Space Marines. Let's say I did an outstanding job, completed the 10 Space Marines in only 50 hours, and sold them for $200. Well, I've covered the cost of materials, but not the cost of the models, and I've essentially worked for free. Ok, how about I work on another 10 Space Marines, finish them in 50 hours, and get another $200 for them. No materials cost this time, so $200 / 50 hours = $4.00/hour. Wow, considering that I make way more then that at my real job... a career as a professional painter seems a bit dim.

How about a table top quality squad of Space Marines? Strong base layer, wash/dip/whatever to get my shading quickly, then minimal highlights (dry brush FTW!), call it 2 hours/mini for a total of 20 hours. I won't include the price of materials this time, and I'll only charge $100 for the squad... I just made $5.00/hour of work. I'm going to have to paint 40 Space Marines and sell them in 4 batches for at least $100 each batch to make $5/hour and a $80 profit. After this, the profit margin goes up, but I'll have to pay for materials (more models), replace brushes, and buy more paint.

Ask a "true" Pro painter (like P3 Paint Competition winners, Golden Deamon, Reaper winners...) how much time they spend on a single miniature and you'll get an answer of 50+ hours. On a SINGLE miniature. It's no wonder they charge several hundred to a thousand dollars for that single mini.

Basically, there is no such thing as painting for profit and "Pro-Painter" is meaningless.

[Wolf Brother Hellstrom]

for the most part, i believe if its painted the value goes way down. unless it really is a "pro painted model"

[DrLove42]

Rule of thumb. If it says "pro painted" its not

And quality will vary from shockingly bad to pretty good.

[Necron2.0]

I agree with some of the sentiments that say "pro" simply means you've been paid to do it, but with that comes the basic assumption that the "pro" deserved to be paid. I've seen so much "pro" painted crap that looks like a hyperglycemic twelve year old with ADD and a fresh case of spray paints went postal on a box of plastic. The term has become a toxic joke because of it. Nowadays, the charlatans have taken to calling their crap "Master Painted." What's next - "Olympian Painted?" "Galactus Painted?"

If I were in the market to buy a painted army, I wouldn't expect the artist to be a Golden Demon winner like Natalya Melnik, but I at least expect them to be as competent at it as I am. I also would expect them not to insult me by asking for compensation far, FAR in excess of their ability.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

My favorite one recently was the "partially propainted" troll bloods. "Partially propainted?" frankly they looked like complete crap.

or like partial crap?

[energongoodie]

I get people's arguments that if they get paid to paint a mini they're a professional but....... you're not.
If that is your only job, your only source of income then, semantically, fine your a professional. But it still means you might paint like a muppet with no hand up it's backside. Pro-painted should mean something. A cursory inspection of ebay indicates otherwise.

p.s there are some awesome PRO painted blood angels on there right now. Even if this guy is doing his painting on the side, I'm happy to have him use the pro painted description.

[doublek666]

I sold a nicely painted army at a nice price, recently. So am I a pro now,too? I think the pro or company should be named, or a reputable painter, not just your buddy painting it for some bong-hits!

[doublek666]

yeah,
because I want fresh models to paint myself, not some ones 'pro-painted' embarrasment to the eyes

[the jeske]

I dont get this .people have problems with this ? if something is pro painted it comes from a studio and studios do armies on comission . the only time they dont is when they are starting and its not a good thing to buy a whole army from a studio that is just starting [maybe too few painters . maybe its a dude that after 30 models decides he doesnt want to finish etc] .

[Necron2.0]

Ok, this is partially me being devils advocate and partially me just curious.

What would be the criteria under which someone can legitimately claim to be Pro? Someone mentioned that in order to be called a Pro, painting should be all they do for a living. In theory I can agree with that, however on the practical side I know several professional artists who also teach because they cannot live off what they make from art alone. Nevertheless, they are considered to be professional artists by their peers. Additionally, the "only job" criteria would also allow several teenagers to call themselves pro, because they are technically living off their "art" (as well as charity).

I would be tempted to suggest someone can only call themselves a pro if they've won a competitive award. The problem there, however, is two-fold. First, that eliminates nearly everyone. Secondly, by that criteria I could call myself a pro, although I'd never consider myself one. The fact that it eliminates many likely "professionals" and yet still lets jokers like me slip through eliminates awards as the definition of pro in my eyes.

So, suggestions? What would you set up as the definition of "Pro?"

[Foxhound2delta]

Well I thought several times about getting a pro painting service to paint up my armies. For example at the local shop that I go to every so often, there's a fellow gamer who has several different armies all painted by Blue Table Painting. Every time I go there (which isn't often because of my current duties) I see he has a different army by them and I ask how much it costs. He replies every time "Quite a bit". Which I reply "How much is quite a bit". He says: "Quite a bit". I've pretty much labeled this guy as dick because of the big shiny West Point ring and his condescending attitude about painted models. In any case I checked out the website and I found myself not really impressed. I figured I could painted as well as Table Top but I just need to find time. Really the bottom line whether you can paint a crappy or awesome just take pride in your models. I know I do. My time for this hobby is very precious and doing a bad job of one model can get me down but that's why I come to site to learn from others and apply that to my skills.

[CrimsonTurkey]

Ok, this is partially me being devils advocate and partially me just curious.

What would be the criteria under which someone can legitimately claim to be Pro? Someone mentioned that in order to be called a Pro, painting should be all they do for a living. In theory I can agree with that, however on the practical side I know several professional artists who also teach because they cannot live off what they make from art alone. Nevertheless, they are considered to be professional artists by their peers. Additionally, the "only job" criteria would also allow several teenagers to call themselves pro, because they are technically living off their "art" (as well as charity).

I would be tempted to suggest someone can only call themselves a pro if they've won a competitive award. The problem there, however, is two-fold. First, that eliminates nearly everyone. Secondly, by that criteria I could call myself a pro, although I'd never consider myself one. The fact that it eliminates many likely "professionals" and yet still lets jokers like me slip through eliminates awards as the definition of pro in my eyes.

So, suggestions? What would you set up as the definition of "Pro?"



I think that a person can be said to be a professional when they have been paid regularly for their services. That really seems the definition for every field.

[Spectral Dragon]

I apologize if this sounds like me being a troll, but it is a pet-peeve of mine.

Pro- does not mean well painted or expert painted. It simply means that you get paid for doing a service, like what Mystery.Shadow said.

If they list it as expert painted, or well painted that is a different story, and is entirely dependent on perspective, or the "Eye of the Beholder."

Anyone can be a professional, as long as you got paid for the service. I once based, and undercoated a friends army for $20. It was a simple job and took me 30 minutes, but I got paid to do it, and by definition I am a "pro."

Wrong

Professional means you were trained and taught to do something in order to make money doing it. Simply being paid to do something does not make you a professional, it makes you an entrepreneur. GW's 'Heavy Metal team are Professionals. These people on abay are not.

It is rather unfortunate that the term is the most searched term in terms of finding mini's on ebay.

[the jeske]

Simply being paid to do something does not make you a professional,
one milion generations of proffesional craftsman now go 0_0 .

[Thornblood]

So, whilst 'Pro Painted' is certainly an overused term with little meaning other than the model has some paint on it, this dosnt detract from our normal way of buying things.

Im pretty peeved at the fact that it is now a 'catch-all' term. However I wouldnt buy a model without first seeing a good pic (unless its NIB), so really I would like to venture; it dosnt matter.

[The Plumber]

this is somthing that gets on my nerves also, so when I sell stuff I use the terms 'cabinet standard' or 'golden daemon standard'.

PS: no, I have never won a golden daemon, but I have 8 finallist badges(UK) so my buyers are always satisfied!