Horus Heresy help

[greendestiny]

I got a bunch of the Horus Heresy books at a locak half price book store. #'s 2 and 3 are missing but I have the rest of the serries to date from this purchase. Do I need to read the ones I am missing before moving on to the 4th book? Some serries it is huge if you skip others it is like missing 3 years of soap operas where nothing has happened since they spend a lot of time doing flashbacks and reviews or previews.

[bladeofdeath3]

The first 4 are linear in story. You need to read books 1-4 in order. A lot of stuff goes down in books 2 and 3 which are crucial to the story.

[miteyheroes]

I would highly recommend reading books 1, 2 and 3 before reading any of the others. Once you've read the first trilogy it doesn't matter as much which other books you read, but the first 3 books explain the basic set-up: the mindset of the Great Crusade, and how Horus gets turned to Chaos. They need to be read together, IMHO.

Also, they're some of the best books in the series.

Most of the others do inter-link, characters and events in one are referenced in others - so you do gain a lot if you read them together in order. But it's only really neccessary to do that for the first trilogy.

[Wildeybeast]

I'd strongly recommend reading them all in order as they do follow a general chronological sequence and there are recurring characters. For example it is useful to have read Legion to get what the Alpha Legion are up in Deliverance Lost and the Dark Angels books do follow on from each other (although they are the low points of the series) and Garro of the Death Guard crops up several times. Other than first 4 however, it is not essential to read them in order.

[wittdooley]

I'll try and do a breakdown here for you:

The Core Story:


1.Horus Rising – Dan Abnett
2.False Gods – Graham McNeill
3.Galaxy in Flames – Ben Counter
Read these books together, and first. They set up the story with the tragic fall of Horus. Galaxy in Flames culminates in the Dropsite Massacre, the first real 'battle' of the Horus Heresy.

The Dropsite Massacre Books



4.The Flight of the Eisenstein – James Swallow
5.Fulgrim – Graham McNeill
14.The First Heretic – Aaron Dembski-Bowden

These books all contain direct links to the Dropsite Massacre, either the direct aftermath (Eisenstein) or the actual fighting (both Fulgrim and Heretic reach their climax at the Dropsite Massacre).

A Legion Kneels/Revenge Books



8.Battle for the Abyss -- Ben Counter
19.Know No Fear – Dan Abnett

I'd read these books directly following The First Heretic, right after you read the Dropsite Massacre block. They all deal with the animosity between the Ultramarines and the Word Bearers. Consequently, you could also put First Heretic as the first book in this block and read these three as a relatively good stand alone block.

The Razing of Prospero

12.A Thousand Sons - Graham McNeill
15.Prospero Burns – Dan Abnett
17.The Outcast Dead – Graham McNeill

These are my favorite in the series, and I think you could read A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns as the only two HH books you read and walk away a very, very happy person. I've included Outcast Dead in this block as well because a great deal of the story ties into why the Razing of Prospero even happens and helps to paint a bit fuller picture about what Magnus really did.

The...Conspiracy Block

7.Legion – Dan Abnett
18.Deliverance Lost – Gav Thorpe

I didn't really know how to appropriately group these, but as someone else already said, you really need to read Legion before Deliverance to get the full picture of what is going on. You could throw Know No Fear at the end of this because it has some direct ties to Legion, but it isn't necessary.

The Dark Angels Books


6.Descent of Angels – Mitchel Scanlon
11.Fallen Angels – Mike Lee

Unless you like the Dark Angels, you really don't need to read these. They're, at this point, completely auxillary to the main HH story, and, IMO, the weakest two novels in the series.

The Imperium at Large


9.Mechanicum – Graham McNeill
13.Nemesis – James Swallow
10.Tales of Heresy – Short story compilation.
16.Age of Darkness – Short story compilation.


You can really read any of these after you read the introductory series in the first three books. These books can be read at pretty much any time, and I actually think both Nemesis and Mechanicum stand fairly well on their own. Nemesis is one of my favorites, and is a must read if you even have a passing interest in the Assassin Clades.

This certainly isn't the end all be all, but I think if you approach the books in this way, you'd get a lot out of the story as a whole. I hope the blocks of novels help, and enjoy!

[MarneusCalgar]

I'll try and do a breakdown here for you:

...

This certainly isn't the end all be all, but I think if you approach the books in this way, you'd get a lot out of the story as a whole. I hope the blocks of novels help, and enjoy!

Thanks for the guide Witt!!!

[Wildeybeast]

You can really read any of these after you read the introductory series in the first three books. These books can be read at pretty much any time, and I actually think both Nemesis and Mechanicum stand fairly well on their own. Nemesis is one of my favorites, and is a must read if you even have a passing interest in the Assassin Clades.

Yeah, Nemesis and Mechanicum are both excellent, my favourites after Legion. Some ofthe short stories in the compilations are really good, I particularly like Last Church in Tales of Heresy. To add to Witt's list there is also Aurelian and Promethean Sun, but these were limited editions so you would need to do some Ebay hunting to get hold of these (no doubt at a pretty penny). I haven't got round to reading these yet, so can't comment on how good they are I'm afraid, they are quite short books so probably only worthe hunting down if you really get into the series.

[greendestiny]

Thanks for all the info guys!

[Jmaximum]

... the Dark Angels books do follow on from each other (although they are the low points of the series...)
There's been two DA books right? When the hell are they actually going to cover the split and war between Luther and the Lion. I forget my old school fluff: does Luther get killed, or become a demon prince?

Also, on a side note, I would love to read the story that leads up to the fight between Russ and Johnson, and what happens afterwards.

[mjasghar]

the fight happens after the heresy ends
a lot of the lion stuff is in short stories - there's been a set of them in hammer and bolter which ends with the lion talking to a Jawa (watcher in the dark - distinctly unHrud like) about playing both sides against each other

[antennafarm]

There's been two DA books right? When the hell are they actually going to cover the split and war between Luther and the Lion. I forget my old school fluff: does Luther get killed, or become a demon prince?

yeah, two. 'descent of angels' is absolutely frickin terrible, and if i recall, ends with johnson sending luthor and calibanite dark angels back to caliban to train up new recruits for the crusade (and luthor/co being poopy pants about it).. now you don't have to read it (it's one of the worst black library books i've read). fallen angels is quite a bit better and i won't spoil it for you, although it's not quite as good as some of the stars of the series (legion, first heretic).

[Dalleron]

I wouldn't call the DA books "bad", but they are my "boys". The first book deals with the starting of the chapter. I don't see how that fits into the Heresy in any way. Well, there is the little bit on a planet that I can't remember right now, against Luna Wolves I believe.

Luthor doesn't turn into a demon prince, he is in a cell on the rock, looney as a toon. Until that gets retconn'd. (Hopefully not)

Gav Thorpe wrote a DA book that kind of touches on the split. Angels of Darkness is the name.

[Jmaximum]

I wouldn't call the DA books "bad", but they are my "boys". The first book deals with the starting of the chapter. I don't see how that fits into the Heresy in any way. Well, there is the little bit on a planet that I can't remember right now, against Luna Wolves I believe.

Luthor doesn't turn into a demon prince, he is in a cell on the rock, looney as a toon. Until that gets retconn'd. (Hopefully not)

Gav Thorpe wrote a DA book that kind of touches on the split. Angels of Darkness is the name.

I was just hoping that now that things are wide out in open space, the split amongst the DA's becomes evident and real.

[Jmaximum]

the fight happens after the heresy ends
a lot of the lion stuff is in short stories - there's been a set of them in hammer and bolter which ends with the lion talking to a Jawa (watcher in the dark - distinctly unHrud like) about playing both sides against each other
Does that mean Lion El'Johnson speaks Bochi?
Went looking for Aurelian on ebay, nothing comes up for 40K sadly, only old Roman coins (poor quality ones, at that).

[Cpt Codpiece]

Does that mean Lion El'Johnson speaks Bochi?

at the end of 'the lion' in "the primarchs" (the last scene in the story, quoted previously) Johnson is talking with a watcher (he did that since being a child, thats covered in the DA HH books) and says something rather alarming and TBH heretic to the imperial truth, which leads me to believe he turned on Luther rather than the other way round, and the object they (DA, DG and IH) fought over in the story i think is what destroys caliban.

remember the night haunter taunted the lion (tzugualza), and made him ever more paranoid, telling him his legion had already turned on the emperor, knowing the nightlords tactics its safe to assume that the lutherites were still loyal to the emperor, but a bit pissed at being left behind. agents from either AL or NL could have sent word to caliban that the lion had turned and was coming to wipe them out, hence firing first.

[Wildeybeast]

its safe to assume that the lutherites were still loyal to the emperor, but a bit pissed at being left behind.

Sorry no. The second DA book makes it clear that the Calibanites are pissed at Imperial rule trashing their lovely home and at the end of the book overthrow Imperial rule and secede from the Imperium. They aren't Chaos inspired, IIRC they put down a Chaos revolt and blame the Imperium for causing it. Either way, they are most definitely not loyal to either the Emperor or the Lion, they follow Luther who has been persuaded to back the rebellion in the best interests of the people and the planet (though why he thinks the Lion will let him get away with it is beyond me).

[Cpt Codpiece]

Sorry no. The second DA book makes it clear that the Calibanites are pissed at Imperial rule trashing their lovely home and at the end of the book overthrow Imperial rule and secede from the Imperium. They aren't Chaos inspired, IIRC they put down a Chaos revolt and blame the Imperium for causing it. Either way, they are most definitely not loyal to either the Emperor or the Lion, they follow Luther who has been persuaded to back the rebellion in the best interests of the people and the planet (though why he thinks the Lion will let him get away with it is beyond me).

i never said they were chaos or inspired by.......
but, i must have skipped a bit of fallen angels :( i remember them being pissed and cypher conspiring with luther..... but i must have either left it there or skipped through and missed a chunk off the end.

but either way, the lutherites were not chaos as i was trying to say, but since they are not loyalists (as in to the imperium) it could have been easy for night haunter to sway the lion. i still believe as is put forward in angels of darkness that the lutherites believed in the ideals the emperor put forward and the goal of the crusade, however the actions and dogma of the imperial machine/mechanicus appropriation was the damning factor of their actions.

to me, they still believe in the emperor and the values of the true imperium, maybe not the actions of it. however the heretic guillimans "imperium secundus" and "codex astartes" is what the lion has issue with, making the 'loyalist' DA the traitors.
also t'chulka is what rips caliban apart (since there is no chaos left on caliban after the forests and dark places were destroyed, it cant be the gods) and banishes the 'fallen' to the far reaches of the warp, be it a ploy to sway the lion or to protect him i do not know.... maybe its just t'chulka is really a demon engine powered by tzeench, and the whole thing is just a part in the great scheme??

[Jmaximum]

ALL of that is was in Fallen Angels??? i only got out of it that the Lutherites and Calibanites as a whole were getting fed up with the imperium/mechanicus machine strip-mining the planet and destroying the places that were sacred to them.

[Cpt Codpiece]

ALL of that is was in Fallen Angels??? i only got out of it that the Lutherites and Calibanites as a whole were getting fed up with the imperium/mechanicus machine strip-mining the planet and destroying the places that were sacred to them.

thats what i thought too, but ill give it another read once i finish legion (again :))

the other bits were from 'angels of darkness' and 'the lion' the lion is from 'the primarchs' and darkness is a great old skool DA now in its 3rd printing :)

[Jmaximum]

thats what i thought too, but ill give it another read once i finish legion (again :))

the other bits were from 'angels of darkness' and 'the lion' the lion is from 'the primarchs' and darkness is a great old skool DA now in its 3rd printing :)

I have not read 'The Primarchs' yet. Working my way through the Game of Thrones series. Primarchs is next tho!