How many space marines constitute a hoard?

[sneakyben]

How many space marines are there in a typical 1500pt list?

I am brainstorming a list with the theme of 'a hoard of marines'

I can do a nice balanced list with 56 models... is that enough?

I can get up to 76 if I say to hell with long-ranged AT :-)

(I am having trouble judging scale because it all seems so small compared to the 125+ of my IG hoard :D)

[Denzark]

I am sure this will attract a load of answers to the contrary but here goes...

I always try and take 3 x troops choices. I would therefore have about 30 marines in a typical 1500 pointer (YMMV, how long is a piece of string etc).

So I would reckon 50+ marines is getting hordish and also your 76 would definitely be there.

[addamsfamily36]

scouts could spare you a few points. not technically full marines but almost there. Just a thought.

[blackarmchair]

I would say above 50 is the basics of a MEQ hordeat 2k. At 1500, 50+ MEQ bodies is PLENTY! If you're looking for a horde feel I'd say you've certainly accomplished it, care to share the list?

[sneakyben]

Currently the ideas I have are (plan is to keep everything on foot, coz thats what hoards do):

1x captain with a power weapon and combi of somesort

6x 10-man tactical squads with a melta and multimelta or heavy bolter

2x 5-man devastator squads with2x lascannons

or

1x captain with a power weapon and combi of somesort

4 or 5x 10-man tactical squads with a melta and a heavy bolter (maybe tool up the squad leaders a bit)

2x 5-man devastator squads with3x lascannons

1x 5-man devastator squads with3x multimelta


Haven't really thought about how useful the lists would be yet... just seeing how much you can fit in :-)

[Denzark]

I like the look of it. I would suggest keep all meltas in the tac squads, to maximise your anti armour - the sheer amount of bolt fire should be sufficient against other horde armies so as not to miss the HB shots.

[Demonus]

I thought about running a marine horde with Lysander to make them all Stubborn. Would help to keep them from running if hit by lots of templates.

[blackarmchair]

If you plan on running a MEQ horde Calgar is an excellent choice. I understand he doesn't really fit at 1500pts but in larger games I would DEFINITELY consider him; he forces your opponent to kill each and every single marine in your entire army since they will never run and never take additional wounds from "No Retreat!". I can tell you from personal experience this is really annoying when even a lowly tactical squad can tarpit assault units for a few turns.

He's also a total beast in combat :)

[Houghten]

If you plan on running a MEQ horde Calgar is an excellent choice. I understand he doesn't really fit at 1500pts but in larger games I would DEFINITELY consider him; he forces your opponent to kill each and every single marine in your entire army since they will never run and never take additional wounds from "No Retreat!".

Ha, only as long as he's on the board. The opponent still has the option of just assassinating him.

[bethor]

When I think marine horde, I think Templar.

Max out squads with neophytes for wounds. A Marshal gives everybody leadership 10. A champion gives everyone preferred enemy. When you shoot at me, I get to move up an extra d6".

Its fun, and its disgusting.

[Skari]

Well, you can really fit a lot of bodies onto the table. But you also want to make sure you can -kill- enemy models. So dont go too bland on the AT, the lovely thing about SM is that you get free weapon choices, use them!

[Sure]

Don't worry about the definition, that's a horde.

[DarkLink]

Yes, a hoard of Space Marines depends on how much money and time you've invested into the pile of plastic sitting in your closet. A horde of Space Marines, on the other hand, is a whole bunch of Space Marines on the table top.

[gredert]

I would think even 40 marines would be a horde. Got to remember that is 40 dudes with T4 and a 3+.

Here is a list I came up with that I kinda like, loads of marines, and a decent amount of AT:
Chapter master with Power fist and art armor
2x Tac with MM/Flamer in rhino
Tac with PG and PC and TL las razorback
Tac with Flamer/ML and TL las razorback
6 devs with 4 LC
whirlwind
pred with AC/HBs

47 marine models, 6 tanks, total of 6 LC, 1 ML, 2 MM, 1 PC, 3 flamers, 1 PG and 2 of the tanks are good at killing infantry and light vehicles (for the WW it needs good scatter obviously). The pred could get dropped and give 3 of the sgts PFs for 4 total, and melta bombs to 2 people. Either way the list does give you a lot of marines, plus long and short ranget AT, and long and short ranged AP, with units that can combat squad or stick together, however you see fit, but can certainly defend objectives while being able to take them. The more I look at this list the more I like it actually, and I may expand my marines that my students use to own the needed models for it.

[Xenith]

I used to field 30 CSM at 1000pts, and people often had trouble dealing with that, 40+ at 1500 should cause your opponents trouble.

Possibly back them up with Rhinos and Koshorro khan so you can outflank in case of mass battle cannons.

Give every unit meltas and powerfists.

[burning crome]

The problem with the marine horde idea is that all variety suffers greatly with lack of mobility. The basic SM really needs to be at mid-range to be effective. Also whist 60+ body’s may seem to be plenty, you’ll find that the reduction in fire power needed when you start running them around to get them where they need to be will hamper you.

So you either bit the bullet and get transports or go with something with a degree of mobility built in. If you going with cheap transports (rhino/pods) to keep the numbers up, then I’d suggest basing the list around SW grey hunters. They have access to virtually everything cheaper than standard SM whist frankly being better at the job. And that before you add in cheap effective HQ, (rune priest) and HS (long fangs). You really can go too far wrong with this type of set up.

The other option is going for high base movement of the assault marines of the BA. There biggest boast is the access to FNP making them more durable whist still being to get to where they need to be quickly and effectively not forgetting some other deployment options due to the descent of angles rule. Having access to devastators help with long range whist not putting out an AV leaving those 35pts laz cannons your opponents forked out for redundant.

:cool:The other option (personal fav) is the GK strike squad horde. For 230pt or 250pts to make all shooting st5 or higher you get super marines that or both mobile thanks to assault weapons and deep strike ability that are more than capable of dealing with most things whist being annoying as hell to deal with. At 1500pts you can get 5 full squads (with phy bolt+2 phycannons and a hammer) with a grandmaster or librarian to choice. (ok that only 51bodys but it still pretty cool and you don't really see it that much surprisingly ):cool:


edit just posted this on another thread but it shows what you can do
HQ
Librarian 150pts with the following powers Might of titan/ sanctuary /summoning/ shrouding / Quicksilver Total 175pts
HQ Total 175pts
Elites
Purifier squad with five extra members with four psycannon with a daemon hammer and two force halberds total 289pts
Purifier squad with five extra members with four psycannon with a daemon hammer and two force halberds total 289pts
Purifier squad with five extra members with four Incinerators free with two daemon hammer 10pts total 250pts
Elites Total 828pts
Troops
Grey Knight strike squad 100pts with five extra memberwith two psycannon/ psybolt ammunition and daemon hammer total 250pts
Grey Knight strike squad 100pts with five extra member with two psycannon/ psybolt ammunition and daemon hammer total 250pts
Troop Total 500pts
Running total 1503pts

[Sure]

While the GK Strike and Interceptor Squads can put a damper on them, drop pods are wonderful for giving the army (if not the units) some mobility. Back when I played my Ultrahorde I found that by going first I could really screw up daemons (back when they were "good"...i.e. before the newer codices were released...it wasn't a long period). I'd cover most of a 6' x 4' board with the 1750 list b/t the drop pods, assault squad and running. Usually there'd just be the corners for them to deep strike into without running a substantial risk of mishap.
However, this tactic ISN'T mobility, but merely a way to compensate for the lack of it.

[The AKH]

I play almost exclusively infantry lists with my Space Marines, and usually tend to have upwards of 50 marines in a 1500pt or higher game. (3 tactical squads, devastators, veterans, assault marines)

[plawolf]

If only there was a Grey Knight character that could have made interceptors troops, that would have been a fun list to field, and would actually give you a reason to tale dreadknights over psyrifle dreads.

For marine horde, I think some drop pods would be a good investment, as would lots of missile launcher dev squads to help provide long range firepower to compensate for your lack of mobility and helping to make up for the lost firepower from running your squads to get to grips with the enemy sooner.

Also, it's best not to get fixated with squeezing in as many bodies as you possibly could, as doing so carries too much opportunity cost and runs the risk of turning your list into a gimmicky list that will crush some armies but get totally owned by others, and not be so fun to play with or against.

[burning crome]

Interceptors as troops would have just been plan dirty having any thing that scores making a 30" move late game! how bad would the guy have to have been with crown already pretty much a wast of 150pts??

[DarkLink]

Interceptors as troops would have just been plan dirty having any thing that scores making a 30" move late game! how bad would the guy have to have been with crown already pretty much a wast of 150pts??

Dirty, if by dirty you mean awesome, but far from broken. Interceptors are much more aggressive than Strike Squads normally are, and Strike Squads are a shooty unit that just happens to be pretty good in CC. When I take Interceptors, they rarely live through the battle. Interceptors have a fairly low density of psycannons and assault ability to make up for their mobility.

Crowe, on the other hand, is just bad game design. There are a lot of problems with him.

[burning crome]

Well there basically strike squads with packs. So the play best as you would with strike's e.i. squads of ten with psycannons and phybolts and a hammer to the "Kill" of squads which you've shot to hell. There higher movement make them more deadly in this role since you can then get side and rear amour and denying cover saves by skipping over intervening terrain or squads. Their higher movement means there going to get catch a little more often as they skip around, plus they suit smaller games where they have more room to manoeuvre. Their main drawback is that they do pay quite a bit for those packs at 6pts compared to other codex which 3pts is the norm. That shunt move is diffidently worth quite a bit mind. I think the trick would be not to play to aggressively since the temptation to jump in and get those sweet shots against rear or high priory units only to get butchered next turn. The mistake I think a lot of people make is thinking since they’ve got power weapons that going to be great in assault forgetting the one attack base compared to say grey hunters who always get three.

[egorene]

Try the Khan , a Space Marine all infiltrating horde can be fun .
And if you combat squad all units that can be very funny .

But some chars can be a pain in the *** , like logan grimnar or draigo
at 1750 pts , im currently playing with 60 models