Want to start but...

[khsrio621]

Hey all, I'm interested in starting warmachine but have no idea where I should start.
I have experience with the warhammers, so I'm no stranger to wargaming.

But there's a problem.

I really don't like the way warjacks look. Would it be possible for me to do a warmachine army completely devoid of warjacks? The larger creatures from hordes look similarly funky to me.
Should I stick to the warhammers? Or is a completely infantry army a viable option?

[tonyzahn]

Warmachine can play without warjacks better than Hordes can play without beasts, for what it's worth. You should probably take at least 1 warjack in any army though, since Warcasters bring free points to the table that can only be used on warjacks. If you don't bring one, that's a waste.

That said, some warcasters are very infantry-centric. Either version of Irusk (Khador caster) come to mind as being one of the best infantry-based warcasters. Infantry is definitely capable of taking out warjacks, but you miss out on power attacks, which are a lot of fun (slams, throws, headlocks, etc).

[Thiazi]

warmahordes with out jacks or beast is like 40k with out tanks. You can do it but it is not a good idea.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Indeed, all of the above is correct. A Hordes force without Beasts has some combo holes in it when dealing with Animai (spelled right?) and due to the Fury mechanic, if you don't take warbeasts of any kind you have no way to generate it for your Warlocks(aka leaders) which means no spells, and with no beasts you miss out on transfering damage. A huge disadvantage for you. An all infantry Warmachine list is more viable due to the Focus mechanic on your Warcaster, but warjacks don't have an Animus which can offer a nice buff or tactical advantage depending on the situation. The biggest problem you run into is that a warjack/beast-less list leaves hole in your armies synergy that could be filled by either a free jack or an almost free jack, depending on the Warcasters Warjack Points, similarly for Hordes the Warlocks have extra points to be allocated for warbeasts only.

[khsrio621]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've definitely narrowed it down to a warmachine army. Which brings me to my second question, How many warjacks are there that don't look like warjacks? I noticed that Cryx has some sort of giant skull wurm thing. Is that decent? How about that giant gunwagon thing that khador has, will that fill a similar role to a warjack?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, I haven't had the chance to look into books and rules yet, and I'm still doing preliminary research.

[under]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've definitely narrowed it down to a warmachine army. Which brings me to my second question, How many warjacks are there that don't look like warjacks? I noticed that Cryx has some sort of giant skull wurm thing. Is that decent? How about that giant gunwagon thing that khador has, will that fill a similar role to a warjack?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, I haven't had the chance to look into books and rules yet, and I'm still doing preliminary research.

Those are Battle Engines so the Warjack points can not be spent on them. As for role, there is some overlap between the Battle Engines and Warjacks but not completly.

I'd suggest you take a look at Khador closest, they run "one 'jack" the best most often.

[Charistoph]

Those are Battle Engines so the Warjack points can not be spent on them. As for role, there is some overlap between the Battle Engines and Warjacks but not completly.

I'd suggest you take a look at Khador closest, they run "one 'jack" the best most often.

I think that Cryx "worm thing" (Cankerworm) qualifies as a Light Jack, though.

Cryx's Jacks do tend to take a horror theme to them, making them less steam punkish, so if that works for you, by all means.

Also don't forget check out the Mercenaries and Minions, as they can be fielded as armies of their own as well, and have some different styles.

[Dais]

There are many competitive 'mostly infantry' builds throughout all the warmachine factions but your always going to have at least one jack. I started out a lot like you back in mk1. I hated the hunchbacked looks of the old metal jacks, and still make the posture of my plastic jacks more upright. There is nothing wrong with infantry-centric lists and the competitive meta is indeed shifting that direction.
Your most important decision will be picking a warcaster that supports your ideal list. There are some casters that support infantry well and others that are simply too selfish with their focus to bring many jacks. I'll list the ones that I can think of but most casters are versatile enough to go in with only one or two jacks and be effective. I'm sure others can add to my list as well.

Cygnar: This faction isn't known for their great infantry, but they are known for their outstanding warcasters. A mediocre unit with the right buff can be a real terror. Most of their casters are generally combined arms but one is a warjack minimalist.
Epic Caine - This guy is a top notch ranged assassin that generally only wants a jack to kill hard targets or enable his assassination run, in fact most of his lists are generally built around enabling his assassination run.

Khador: These guys bring hardy infantry that commit to their strengths. Whatever they decide to do, they do BIG.
Irusk - One of the premier infantry casters. This guy has some great spells to buff them and even a nice spell for the one warjack he will have around.
Epic Irusk - The second version of Irusk is good with his troops too. He makes troops within 12" fearless all the time.
Epic Sorscha - She has a punishing feat that enhances damage dealth and buffs all winterguard just by being there. She also has iron flesh.
Epic Vlad - The dark champion has some great spells for infantry and a feat that turns a few of them into supermen for a turn.

Menoth: this faction is known for its amazing support options. Their jack support is imfamous, but infantry support is top notch as well.
The Harbinger - She has a TON of focus for spells and two good infantry buffs as well as an ability to save warriors from death at the expense of her own health.
The Testament - He is more of a combined arms caster normally but his feat is particularly strong for infantry and deserves mention.
Epic Kreoss - This guy is a truly great troop caster. He supports huge swarms of knights very well
Thyra - She makes menoth's angry ninja girls even deadlier.

Cryx: This faction has the scariest melee infantry in the game,even if it doesn't seem like their casters do a ton for them, even a little bit can be enough.
Epic Asphixyious - He brings dead troops back for one last ghostly charge, this is a game winner by itself. His feat was nerfed and he's still top tier.
Epic Goreshade - He makes the best melee infantry in the game even better.
Skarre - She makes infantry very accurate with a spell, and her feat can make the hit like trucks for a turn.
Terminus - This guy like surrounding himself with a swarm of undead, which he uses as pawns to protect him and also grants the tough ability to.

Retribution: None of this faction's casters excell at supporting infantry, but all save one are capable. Their infantry itself is very good on it's own though.The infantry gets minimal support but they are so good they manage without it.

Mercenaries: They are way too disparate in play styles to make blanket statements about, but they do have many character units that tend to be a cut above their mundane counterparts.
Constance Blaize - This is a Cygnar caster with a special rule allowing her to be used as a mercenary; and she works better as a merc. She likes a melee-centric infantry army.
Cpt. Shae - This guy loves making use of his pirate crew. Hes is also the only caster in the game I endorse starting with their theme list to new players. He basically just gives you free points for nothing.
Damiano - This guy is literally an officer in the steelhead mercenary company and he has abilities to make steelhead grunts perform very well (a little bonus pay goes a long way) on top of a solid spell list.

Again there are several other combined arms or middle of the road casters that can run infantry very well, these are just the casters that make it their bread and butter.

[khsrio621]

Wow, thanks for the incredibly detailed reply!
I think I'm leaning toward a winterguard based army with Epic Irusk or Epic Sorscha. Is the Devastator warjack any good? From an aesthetic perspective, I like it better than the other options.

[Dais]

The davastator is quite a strong attrition model since it gets very high armor if it dose not attack and is VERY mean with eSorscha, but it is mostly an anti-infantry jack with it's rain of death attack. This isn't bad, but it will mean you need some other ways to take out heavy armor. How do you feel about behemoth and beast 09? If you don't care for the characters you might like the spriggan since it is essentially a devastator with a lance.

[khsrio621]

I'm definitely fine with the look of the Spriggan! Thanks for the help again!

[under]

I think that Cryx "worm thing" (Cankerworm) qualifies as a Light Jack, though.

Cryx's Jacks do tend to take a horror theme to them, making them less steam punkish, so if that works for you, by all means.

Also don't forget check out the Mercenaries and Minions, as they can be fielded as armies of their own as well, and have some different styles.

I don't think the Cankerworm is what he was reffering to when he wrote "some sort of giant skull wurm thing" rather more likely he meant the Wraith Engine, which is pretty lackluster in terms of on the table preformance.

[Charistoph]

I don't see a worm in any of the Battle Engines. The Cryx BE looks like a giant Jack ghost, big on top and disappearing on the bottom, while the Cankerworm looks like an actual snake/worm.

[khsrio621]

sorry about confusion, definitely meant the cankerworm. I didn't really see anything else wormlike on my first look through the store, so I thought that was an adequate description.

[under]

sorry about confusion, definitely meant the cankerworm. I didn't really see anything else wormlike on my first look through the store, so I thought that was an adequate description.

No worries, they both look like worms to me, I just keyed in on the word giant and misinterptreted it.

The Cankerworm is a medium sized model, if memory serves it's roughtly about the size of a Special Character in Terminator Armour.

[khsrio621]

No worries, they both look like worms to me, I just keyed in on the word giant and misinterptreted it.

The Cankerworm is a medium sized model, if memory serves it's roughtly about the size of a Special Character in Terminator Armour.

Weird, the picture makes it look much larger.

[Bean]

If you haven't finalized your decision, here are two things to consider:

Retribution's Myrmidons have a very different look to them than the warjacks of other factions. Also, almost all Retribution armies use only one warjack, thanks to the awesomeness of their infantry.

The Dwarf Mercenaries (Searforge) also have warjacks with a very distinct aesthetic--specifically the Basher and their iconic light gun-jacks.

Just a couple of other options for you to consider.

[under]

If you haven't finalized your decision, here are two things to consider:

Retribution's Myrmidons have a very different look to them than the warjacks of other factions. Also, almost all Retribution armies use only one warjack, thanks to the awesomeness of their infantry.

The Dwarf Mercenaries (Searforge) also have warjacks with a very distinct aesthetic--specifically the Basher and their iconic light gun-jacks.

Just a couple of other options for you to consider.

RoS frequently use more then 1 'jack in competative lists, their aesthetic is different though.

As to running Searforge . . . the 40k analogy would be like picking Codex: Chaos Deamon then running all Nurgle all the time with the added restriction of never fielding Epididimus. Searforge is a sub-group of a non-faction.

[Bean]

RoS frequently use more then 1 'jack in competative lists, their aesthetic is different though.


Rahn typically does. The others sometimes do, but the vast majority of designed-for-competition Retribution lists I've seen have only included one 'jack--usually a single heavy.




As to running Searforge . . . the 40k analogy would be like picking Codex: Chaos Deamon then running all Nurgle all the time with the added restriction of never fielding Epididimus. Searforge is a sub-group of a non-faction.

And yet there are people who play Searforge--go figure. And, of course, you can play Gorten and his gunbunnies as a Highborn covenant list, too.

It's a legitimate suggestion for someone looking for a different aesthetic.

[Dais]

I have to agree with bean. Searforge is limited, but more than playable in the right hands.
The dwarves are better in fourstar and highborn lists though, even if you want mostly dwarf stuff, models like gorman and aiyanna can add an absurd amount of utility for a small points investment. I think durgen in particular is very underplayed right now.

[under]

And yet there are people who play Searforge--go figure. And, of course, you can play Gorten and his gunbunnies as a Highborn covenant list, too.

It's a legitimate suggestion for someone looking for a different aesthetic.

Searforge is a legitemt suggestion as is Nurgle, assuming ones makes clear just how severelly limited and narrow that road is.