Baddies- The Imperial Guard

[Thornblood]

Do you think this scenario has ever applied to an Imperial Guard unit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY&feature=related



That is my main point but would also like to share this episode of blackadder;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlPdGf5zhCc&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjY3JclbG68&feature=endscreen&NR=1

And for those of you americans who are wondering, that is Dr House playing the upper class idiot.

[bfmusashi]

Never, the bad guys are the ones shooting at us.

[gcsmith]

Do you think this scenario has ever applied to an Imperial Guard unit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY&feature=related



That is my main point but would also like to share this episode of blackadder;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlPdGf5zhCc&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjY3JclbG68&feature=endscreen&NR=1

And for those of you americans who are wondering, that is Dr House playing the upper class idiot.

While I agree house is an awesome role, he was firstly a comedian. Slightly irks me, id rather him be known for george a 'british' role not american.

Also to ur original point, yep, but then the commisar shoots them

[Thornblood]

Ah, Jeeves and Worcester- I still have no idea what the point of that show is, but its an enjoyable ride. Forgot Stephen Fry was in Blackadder as well.

Doesn't matter really, Hugh Laurie is a legend whether he is Dr House, Bertie Worcester, George, The Prince of Wales, playing a villain in 101 Dalmations, or singing.

[UltramarineFan]

Doesn't matter really, Hugh Laurie is a legend whether he is Dr House, Bertie Worcester, George, The Prince of Wales, playing a villain in 101 Dalmations, or singing.

Not forgeting A Bit of Fry and Laurie either :)

[gcsmith]

Ah, Jeeves and Worcester- I still have no idea what the point of that show is, but its an enjoyable ride. Forgot Stephen Fry was in Blackadder as well.

Doesn't matter really, Hugh Laurie is a legend whether he is Dr House, Bertie Worcester, George, The Prince of Wales, playing a villain in 101 Dalmations, or singing.

Don't forget stuart little, and his cameo on friends, but this isnt a hugh laurie apreciation thread :)

[chromedog]

Ah, Jeeves and Worcester- I still have no idea what the point of that show is, but its an enjoyable ride. Forgot Stephen Fry was in Blackadder as well.



It's based off the PG Wodehouse stories - and the "gentleman's" name is spelled "Wooster" in both the series and the stories. Regardless of whether the "proper" spelling is Worcester or not. "Wooster" it is pronounced, and "Wooster" it is spelled. It's not uncommon for many English surnames to be mispellings or other corruptions of place names or things (since most will have been around before a standardised spelling of the name became important).

It's a parody of upper-class-twit-dom in the post-WW1 years. WW1 killed off a large number of the intelligent gentry, apparently (if such a thing could be said to exist) leaving the somewhat thick and otherwise gormless to inherit.

Thus we have Bertie. Besides, the stories themselves are not about Bertie, but about Jeeves - his ever-suffering butler, who pretty much ALWAYS saves the day, but allows Bertie to get the credit as it's not the done thing to publicly show up the boss.

[Colonel Bindoff]

Do you think this scenario has ever applied to an Imperial Guard unit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY&feature=related
.

Not to detract from all the Laurie love, but I feel this is actually an interesting question.

The Imperium is portrayed as the good guys a lot, I think, because it's the only human faction. Contrast with fantasy where there is brettonia to compete with, along with the good elf factions, dwarves and such, where there is less of a clear cut good vs bad sense of morality. There is not so much diversity in 40k in that way. Eldar are not the high elves either: they are arrogant and self-centred, and will fight the monkeigh for their own agenda almost as willingly as they would chaos or the necron.

I could imagine guard fighting civil war style conflicts in this situation though: the vervunhive story from necropolis springs to mind, but the cult of the imperium is so firmly entrenched re the various xenos I can't see the officers acting like messrs Mitchell and Webb with them.

[eldargal]

Actually the Imperium aren't depicted as the good guys so much as the only guys trying to preserve humanity in a sea of other bad guys. In other words, everyone is selfish, xenophobic and bad, it is jsut the Imperium is looking after its own and as the protagonist people tend to associate them with the good guy.

Obviously the Imperium depicts itself as the good guy to its population, and it is, in the sense that it isn't actively trying to exerminate humanity. But it is actively trying to extermiante everyone else. Everyone is actively or passively trying to exterminate/dominate everyone else, too.

[Colonel Bindoff]

That's a fair distinction. A lot of the 40k fluff polarises Chaos as the bad guys though and humanity as the main defenders against it, hence the good guys by implication. I suppose the fact that the imperium has never really moved to exterminate groups like the Eldar and Tau casts them in a favourable light too. Although I'd say in the former's case this is possibly also due to a lack of capability.

It's just hard to see humans indoctrinated into the guard, trained to hate and kill the xenos and heretic, looking at the skulls on their tri-dome lids and drawing the death's head conclusion Mitchell does.

[Kiarr]

I very much doubt that they would ever seem themselves as bad guys even if they were fighting other humans such as chaos bands or even any groups that may want to break away from the Imperium

This is mainy because noone ever does see themselves as the bad guys as it comes to war do you think the German troops did during WW2? The Scots when fighting the English during the uprising depicted in braveheart? The Americans fighting the Vietcong? Each time there is a war each side fights for a different reason, neither side is good or evil theres just a reason pushing each side to war. At the end of the day most of the good or evil "fluff" after a war was written by the victors!

[Colonel Bindoff]

Au contrair my Berkshire based friend, there are instances in history of people realising this and switching sides. The whole of Italy in WW2 springs to mind. In your examples, Scots no, the mercenaries hired by England, possibly realising but not caring. A lot of Germans questioned their role in the war, and many balked at the zealous excesses of their commanders. And I think it's probably fairly well known that a lot of Americans questioned their involvement in Vietnam. Possibly not in an 'are we the bad guys' way, but nevertheless beginning to question whether these wars are actually morally justifiable.

[Colonel Bindoff]

Sorry, double post

[Kiarr]

I agree with you to some respect but the question was do the soldier themselves see themselves as the badguys

Most people that switch either see something in it for themselves or disagree with their commanders and for the itailians, americans and germans it was the general populous not the soldiers themselves that questioned it. (actully most grunts are conditioned just to follow orders)

My point was that whilst questioning the commanders to a certain respect - which does happen a lot most dont question if what they are doing is morally right and hence see themselves as bad guys :)

I think it would be doubily so for the Imperial Guard fighting against Xenos incursions even if they were landing on new planets and exterminating the natives as they wouldnt even relate the population as being "human"

[Adra]

Imperial Guard have joined the Tau, so i guess they must have figured things would be better on the blue side of the fence.

I'm not sure i agree with any notion that the Imperium are good guys, except maybe to themselves. In fact they are not even the closest to being good guys out of the 40k races. The Imperium is driven by the manifest destiny of mankind to rule the galaxy, and that means killing every living thing in their way, including other humans, and opressing its citizens into, basicly, slavery. Ok so chaos, orks, nids seem to have random kill kill kill on the brain but you can hardly say humans are any better then, oh lets say...necrons. Eldar and Tau are almost angelic when stood next to humans and even they dont really have the right to be called true good guys.

[Kiarr]

Thats one of the points I was trying to make Adra :)

No army is the good guys only from their , I would also say no army IRL are the good guys only to those people that they are fighting for and themselves.
If you were an ork you would think yourself as being a "good guy" if you were a Dark eldar then you would think you were a.... well maybe not good but what you were doing was just and right. :)

I had forgotten that some imperial guard had moved to the Tau... however how much was their choice and how much was the etherials strange way with people we may never know.....

[GrogDaTyrant]

And for those of you americans who are wondering, that is Dr House playing the upper class idiot.

I would like to make a side note about that... Not all of us Americans are ignorant of the fact that the actor who plays Dr. House is actually named Hugh Laurie, or the fact that he was also on shows like 'Black Adder', or 'A Bit of Fry and Laurie.' And some of us actually know who Stephen Fry is, that he currently hosts a show called 'QI' (for Quite Interesting), and that he's a national treasure.

But for the vast collection of us, yes... most Americans would only know Hugh Laurie as 'Dr. House', and many probably don't even know he's British or that the show is based loosely off of Sherlock Holmes.

[eldargal]

Last time I was in New York I had an argument with someone who completely refused to accept that Hugh Laurie was British, to the point of claiming the actor in Blackadder was a different Hugh Laurie and that interviews with him and various talk show hosts were faked.:rolleyes:

I'm not saying this is representative of Americans in general but it does illustrate there are a pretty ignorant group of hardcore House fans who don't want to admit he is British for whatever reason.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I wonder, have you ever been anywhere in the US other than New York? Is this why you seem to have a such a negative view of Americans? (brace myself)

If I had ever only been to London I'd have a rather messed up view of the British. Thank God for Brummies and Wales and the Granite City:)