necron unit, scary or too much?

[planet psyrum]

So, I have been getting my butt kicked by an orks player's 'ard boys unit, of late. I tried hitting them with two annihilation barges and a ten man unit of immortals over several turns, and then accept the charge with a lightning field and scarabs near by to help with wounds. I blasted all of that and he still got me in cc and destroyed my whole flank. So instead of trying to shoot him im going to fight him in cc. I came up with a unit that I think might be nasty. The unit is 720 with an option for for 835. The unit is as follows:

Nemesor zahndrekh

Vargard obyron

Necron overlord with warscythe, 2+, res orb, amd 3++

Lord, warscythe, 2+

Lord, warscythe, 2+

5 warriors

Option: ghost ark

My thoughts: this is a pretty scary scoring unit. But a lot of points. Now the unit is meant for close combat, however, if I got into a situation where I was tarpitted, or in an unfavorable matchup, I could veil out of it. Also, if I have a dread or walker near where i am charging a unit, I could always pull a couple independent characters out with to deal with them. Also like I said it is scoring, so if i plopped them on a capture amd control marker , good luck getting them off.

What is the intetnets thoughts?

Should i add mindshackle scarabs, ghost ark, or sub out the overlord for another special character?

[Sure]

It sounds like you're just rolling poorly and he's rolling well. All that fire should do bad things to a unit of 'ard boys unless the dice hate you.
Necrons have some fun close combat options but they are not marquis units. Including some as counter assaulters to finish off a damaged unit is one thing, but creating a close combat all-star isn't worth the points in this codex if you're looking just to be effective.
40K is only a "if you can't beat them, then join them game" if you switch codices all together. The orcs are an assault-heavy codex, the 'crons are a mostly shooting and dirty tricks codex. Both have their exceptions (lootas, scarabs), but these exceptions are best used to cover gaps and not be the headliner.

[planet psyrum]

I understand your point, but this unit could be done in compliment with the test of the army. Ie. Annihilation barges, solar pulsea, crypteks, immortals, and scarabs. This unit will be plugged into a 1500 and up army. You have a good chance at winning kill point missions, and capture and control. You will have a problem with multiple objectives, but this unit could be a troop assassin. Also, if you take a ghost ark, you could split up some of the independent characters with the veil to contest, and the lords and warriors could go for a late turn steal. Not to mention with solar pulses going off you can avoid alot of high strength weapons.

[Mephiston69]

At 1500 points this unit is just way too big, I mean 720 points? That's almost half your army and your getting 10 models out of it, 5 of which are 4+ save warriors which will just get slaughtered before they can even use Reanimation protocols.
The strength of Necrons is mid-range shooting and dirty tricks just like Sure said; you should play off that as well as the Orks weaknesses, load your army up with template weapons and annihilation barges and throw in some tesla immortals
If you really want a close combat unit then get yourself some warscythe Lychguard and have them go with a res orb Warscythe Overlord
Or, if you're feeling interesting put some Triarch Praetorians with a Destroyer Lord on the Field (I dont recommend it however)

[planet psyrum]

I guess i could just be willing this unit to be good. But the warriors are only 65 pts and would normally go with a cryptek with veil or solar pulse, then im going to have two overlords anyway, and the two lords are a throw in. Well sometimes ill put a lord down for a res orb for a large warrior or immortal unit. unstead if having all of this spread over a while army, they get thrown into a scary unit that is scoring, and will take a ton of shots. The only real concern is losing combat and all the reanimation protocols goes away. But with 14 warscythe attacks on a charge, or with counter-attack, T5, 2+ armor, I do not see that happening.

Is this an auto-win button? No. Is it going to be very helpful in kill point games? Yes. is it going to make up its points? Probably not. Could it throw a wrench in what an opponent likes to do? Most likely

I'm going to try this out in my next couple games. I let you know exactly what it does

[planet psyrum]

Also, it could be 5 tesla immortals to get a 3+

[Spectral Dragon]

How are you not taking out a unit of hardboys with a full squad of immortals? Are you kitted with guass or tesla? Gauss shouldn't allow them an armor save, and tesla should be giving them a large load of wounds. (IMO the tesla carbines aren't worth it.)

As for the unit you are proposing, it's fluffy and fun, but I wouldn't bring it to a tourney.

[planet psyrum]

Well, there is 12 'ard boys, one knob, and a warboss in the unit. Out of four tesla destructor shots on the unit, i didnt roll one 6. I hit him for 13 strength 7 hits. I did 10 wounds, he saved 6 of them. And put one wound on the knob and one on the boss. Then 10 immortals firing twice, no rapid fire, he got in cc because of a 5 for run, and a 4 for the waaagh!. So 20 shots, I hit on 12 of them, wounded 6, he had a force field from another hq of 5+. So he saved 3 of them. 3 died, didnt need to take a morale check. Next turn he waaghed and killed them.

Another note on my unit idea. Even menphiston with 5 strength 10 cc attacks wouldn't be a problem for this unit. He might kill one, but I would kill him out right. I know he is only 250 vs. 750, but they would kill him outright.

[Spectral Dragon]

Well, there is 12 'ard boys, one knob, and a warboss in the unit. Out of four tesla destructor shots on the unit, i didnt roll one 6. I hit him for 13 strength 7 hits. I did 10 wounds, he saved 6 of them. And put one wound on the knob and one on the boss. Then 10 immortals firing twice, no rapid fire, he got in cc because of a 5 for run, and a 4 for the waaagh!. So 20 shots, I hit on 12 of them, wounded 6, he had a force field from another hq of 5+. So he saved 3 of them. 3 died, didnt need to take a morale check. Next turn he waaghed and killed them.

Another note on my unit idea. Even menphiston with 5 strength 10 cc attacks wouldn't be a problem for this unit. He might kill one, but I would kill him out right. I know he is only 250 vs. 750, but they would kill him outright.
You should be using gauss for immortals against orks. More shots, no armor saves ;)

Sounds to me like your just rolling bad.

Again, that IS a fun unit, and I think you should playtest it to see how much you like it :) Don't discount your very good immortals just yet though.

[GrandReaper]

Well, there is 12 'ard boys, one knob, and a warboss in the unit. Out of four tesla destructor shots on the unit, i didnt roll one 6. I hit him for 13 strength 7 hits. I did 10 wounds, he saved 6 of them. And put one wound on the knob and one on the boss. Then 10 immortals firing twice, no rapid fire, he got in cc because of a 5 for run, and a 4 for the waaagh!. So 20 shots, I hit on 12 of them, wounded 6, he had a force field from another hq of 5+. So he saved 3 of them. 3 died, didnt need to take a morale check. Next turn he waaghed and killed them.

Another note on my unit idea. Even menphiston with 5 strength 10 cc attacks wouldn't be a problem for this unit. He might kill one, but I would kill him out right. I know he is only 250 vs. 750, but they would kill him outright.

Wait wait. Did he run and then "Waaagh fleet" in the same turn? Because Waaagh just lets them fleet - ie: charge even if they ran. Unless you meant over two turns in which case ignore me.

If you're desperate, a couple of the Crypteks with AP1 flamers in the Ghost Ark with the 5 Warriors would sort them out in a hurry with almost no danger to them. They don't even have to disembark to shoot. Just two templates that wound on 3s with no saves and no FNP.

[Sure]

I understand your point, but this unit could be done in compliment with the test of the army. Ie. Annihilation barges, solar pulsea, crypteks, immortals, and scarabs. This unit will be plugged into a 1500 and up army. You have a good chance at winning kill point missions, and capture and control. You will have a problem with multiple objectives, but this unit could be a troop assassin. Also, if you take a ghost ark, you could split up some of the independent characters with the veil to contest, and the lords and warriors could go for a late turn steal. Not to mention with solar pulses going off you can avoid alot of high strength weapons.

That unit is too big a nd too fragile. In a 1500-1850 point game I'll eliminate that unit first and then mop up the other half of your army. It looks like a good lark, but if your only going for effectiveness you'll be disappointed. If you are doing it to go against this "ard Boys unit, then if you manage to get the two units to meet you'll have a good round of assault.

[planet psyrum]

Well, I have a game set up for this thursday, and I'm gonna try out this unit. The match is at 1500 pts. So, it is a little pricey at this point. With this unit that is 750 pts at this point, im bringing 9 scarabs, 2 annihilation barges, and 3 warriors units with a veil and solar pulse cryptek, each.

The plan: dominate the movement phase. I need to get into cc on turn 2, and again on turn 4. Then contest or steal an objective 5-7.

I'm going to have to lay traps, and find ways to get him off objectives.

If he gets desperate and starts to Chase me around, I could use the 3 warrior units to pick off weak links that are not supported.

I'm either going to get an A or an F. Not playing orks this time.

[GrandReaper]

Well, I have a game set up for this thursday, and I'm gonna try out this unit. The match is at 1500 pts. So, it is a little pricey at this point. With this unit that is 750 pts at this point, im bringing 9 scarabs, 2 annihilation barges, and 3 warriors units with a veil and solar pulse cryptek, each.

The plan: dominate the movement phase. I need to get into cc on turn 2, and again on turn 4. Then contest or steal an objective 5-7.

I'm going to have to lay traps, and find ways to get him off objectives.

If he gets desperate and starts to Chase me around, I could use the 3 warrior units to pick off weak links that are not supported.

I'm either going to get an A or an F. Not playing orks this time.

You can only have two Crypteks with Veils and two Crypteks with Solar Pulses. Each Royal Court can only have a single copy of each Cryptek Wargear option. The automatic weapon swap doesn't count, just the optional upgrades.

[planet psyrum]

So I used this unit, which I am calling immortal lords, against IG today. They did very well. they took 2 battle cannons, 2 lascannons, hellhound fire, and multi-melta, and three auto cannons in the face on turn 1. All immortals died, nemesor took 2 wounds, overlord took 1 along with obyron. After that they assaulted a vet squad, wiped em out. Took more random fire, then split up and killed 2 heavy weapon team squada, and a hellhound. Then more fire, killed the leman russ. Zahndrekh then died. Then the best part. Two lords assaulted 5 vets to contest the middle objective. 5 guardsman wounded the 2 lords and then I failed 2 2+ saves. One got back up. But overall they took a lot of fire and decimated their whole flank. I tied by the way. Three objectives contested.

[thecactusman17]

So they had no difficulty killing guardsmen or stationary tanks.

Sorry, that's a little above average but hardly a demonstration of power. And after all that damage done, your remaining forces didn't have the power necessary to win the game.

[Spectral Dragon]

So I used this unit, which I am calling immortal lords, against IG today. They did very well. they took 2 battle cannons, 2 lascannons, hellhound fire, and multi-melta, and three auto cannons in the face on turn 1. All immortals died, nemesor took 2 wounds, overlord took 1 along with obyron. After that they assaulted a vet squad, wiped em out. Took more random fire, then split up and killed 2 heavy weapon team squada, and a hellhound. Then more fire, killed the leman russ. Zahndrekh then died. Then the best part. Two lords assaulted 5 vets to contest the middle objective. 5 guardsman wounded the 2 lords and then I failed 2 2+ saves. One got back up. But overall they took a lot of fire and decimated their whole flank. I tied by the way. Three objectives contested.

Try it against a few more opponents before making a final decision. If you like it, keep it!

In my experience the old necrons (haven't had a chance to play with my new dex yet) did well against IG.

[planet psyrum]

Oh yeah, definitely, going into the game I planned on a win. I mean c'mon dawn of war and 3 solar pulses, yeah I on accidently cheated, on IG, yeah definitely should have one.

Against a favorable matchup, they killed a leman russ, hell hound, special weapon squad, and 2 heavy weapon squads. Yeah that sounds fantastic, but I don't know if i made my points back. The great thing was alot of fire power was directed towards them, leaving scarbs, a warrior squad, and 2 annihilation barges free from shots. Bad news is I didn't have answer for the stubborn blob. Im playing space marines tomorrow, anothet favorable matchup. Let's see how things work out.

Bad matchups: I believe are dark eldar, tyranida, daemons, and blood angels. I believe i can go toe to toe with grey knights.

My hope is to bring this list to the nova open. I need a lot more experience.

[planet psyrum]

So they had no difficulty killing guardsmen or stationary tanks.

Sorry, that's a little above average but hardly a demonstration of power. And after all that damage done, your remaining forces didn't have the power necessary to win the game.

You are right, my remaining forces did not do enough and blowing up stationary tanks is not that impressive. Altgough, the amount that I blew those tanks up by was impressive, I know that doesnt mean anything.

It was benificiary how much fire power they attracted. What really helped, two more battle cannins to the face would have killed me, was zahndrek issuing veil dropping warriors with tank hunter, stalling leman russ a turn so immortal lords could split up and unleash warscythe goodness.

But like I said earlier, is it an auto win button, no. Is it an auto lose button, I intend to find out. Did I come up with this unit without help from the internet, yes.

If an immortal would have survived, I would have won. But with the amount of fire power that came at them, that is praying more than hoping.

[Spectral Dragon]

You are right, my remaining forces did not do enough and blowing up stationary tanks is not that impressive. Altgough, the amount that I blew those tanks up by was impressive, I know that doesnt mean anything.

It was benificiary how much fire power they attracted. What really helped, two more battle cannins to the face would have killed me, was zahndrek issuing veil dropping warriors with tank hunter, stalling leman russ a turn so immortal lords could split up and unleash warscythe goodness.

But like I said earlier, is it an auto win button, no. Is it an auto lose button, I intend to find out. Did I come up with this unit without help from the internet, yes.

If an immortal would have survived, I would have won. But with the amount of fire power that came at them, that is praying more than hoping.

Start learning to be tricky, don't attach them to the immortals before the game begins. Use your other units as cover (scarabs will work nicely for this) and get yourself some units that can tackle just about anything. Don't underestimate your cheap and usefull warriors either! 20 of them make a great buffer for that unit.

You can learn to MAKE this work if you want to, just takes some playtesting :)

[isotope99]

If you're going to go for this I'd throw in a chronometron cryptek and maybe some mindshackle scarabs on the lords to help protect them against scary assaulters.

[Tynskel]

Necron CC are mop up units. You shoot first, then charge.
I would get moar guns. WHOOPS: not correct.

Try a doom scythe. Str 10 can never go wrong. Especially when AP1!

[planet psyrum]

Start learning to be tricky, don't attach them to the immortals before the game begins. Use your other units as cover (scarabs will work nicely for this) and get yourself some units that can tackle just about anything. Don't underestimate your cheap and usefull warriors either! 20 of them make a great buffer for that unit.

You can learn to MAKE this work if you want to, just takes some playtesting :)

Two things: I dont know what you mean by using other units as cover. This unit has 3 members with 3++, and 5 with 2+ and the immortals have a 3+, and if one survives, there is a res orb for a 4+. So cover is not needed.

But you are right, with so little other units, I have to be tricky. The biggest problem is avoided all of the small fire from basic troops. I can take 9 autocannon shots, or 3 lascannons, but 40 lasgun and bolter shots will eventually have me rolling 1s.

[planet psyrum]

If you're going to go for this I'd throw in a chronometron cryptek and maybe some mindshackle scarabs on the lords to help protect them against scary assaulters.

I cant put a cryptek in this unit, it would take away a lord, and that would suck. And I am gonna bring mindshacklr scarabs to give me a chance against power klaw or fist models. Strength 10 is the bane of this unit

[Spectral Dragon]

Two things: I dont know what you mean by using other units as cover. This unit has 3 members with 3++, and 5 with 2+ and the immortals have a 3+, and if one survives, there is a res orb for a 4+. So cover is not needed.

But you are right, with so little other units, I have to be tricky. The biggest problem is avoided all of the small fire from basic troops. I can take 9 autocannon shots, or 3 lascannons, but 40 lasgun and bolter shots will eventually have me rolling 1s.The problem is that you said you were taking melta, rocket, ect, which you don't get a save from. Trust me, annoying your opponent by putting your crons in cover is a good idea. It makes your uber expensive unit more survivable.

Try it, you'll see.

[planet psyrum]

I understand, the immortals would then get an invul save. I just kinda figured i would justvtake the random melta las cannon and krak missile on the 3+ invuls i had, but putting them in cover, I could take the immortals and use them as bubble wrap, and not risk a wound on a lord. The only problem is that if they are not in combat, they are not making back there points.

However, getting the unit in cover on a late turn to babysit a objective will work. I didnt get to play a game today, so i will let you know what happens with them later in the week.

[planet psyrum]

Well, I got two games with the zahnstar unit. Both against vanilla marines, one tie and one solid victory.

Game 1: Turn 3 came and i couldn't help myself, i veiled right in the middle of my opponents line, then forgot to run to spread my guys out. I then promptly took 2 heavy plasma blasts in the face eacho n turns 3 and 4. After that i had just 1 immortal, 1 wound overlord, and two lords left. I then assaulted a tac squad and a dreadnought . On my opponents turn, bottom of 5, they all were dead. However, on a reanimation protocol roll of 5 or 6, I contest the objective and win. I roll my 9th out of ten(had a res orb until top of 5) reanimation protocol and tie the game.

Game 2: I dont veil this time, I wait till top of 3 to assault a tac squad, killing all ten, then top of 4 assault his last troop choice, another tac squad, and wipe them out. I then assault a landraider on turn 5 to no sucess. I didnt need them at the end because I tank hunted a unit of warriors to kill a dreadnought and take final objective. Je only had a termie squad, captain, and landraider left. And couldnt contest both objectives by end of 7. Total losses for zahnstar, 1 wound on zahndrek, 1 on overlord, 2 immortals dead. My rolling wasnt that hot, I added two mindscarabs for extra protection.

Still working on kinks but so far I am 1-0-2 with them.