Creed - Tatical Genius Question.

[david5th]

Creed - IG Codex pg 57

Tatical Genius: During deployment, choose a single infantry or vehicle unit in you army. That unit has the Scouts special rule for the duration of the battle.

IMPERIAL GUARD Official Update Version 1.1 FAQ

Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately.”

My question is can i use Tatical Genius to enable an entire Infantry Platoon to outflank.

I know that Captain Al'Rahem has this ability but i would like to take both characters and outflank two Infantry Platoons.

[Wolfshade]

I don't have by books to hand, but a Platoon is made up of multiple units filling one FOC slot. So I would say that tactical genius couldn't cause an entire Platoon (collection of units) to outflank.
I think the faq it is trying even out how platoons arrive since it would seem strange that a Platoon Command Squad could arrive and there rest of the platoon not.

[bfmusashi]

Tactical Genius says unit.
Stalk the Enemy says any unit.
Combined Squad lets you combine infantry squads into larger units.

Tactical Genius does not let you give the whole platoon Scouts, but one unit within the platoon (including the blob). Personally, I give it to Banewolves.

[robrodgers46]

From the FAQ:

"Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit in missions that limit the number units that can be deployed. In addition when making a reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead rolled for separately.”"

Seems to me that Creed can outflank an entire platoon.

R

[Tynskel]

The scouts would only apply to a single unit.
Essentially, you wouldn't be able to outflank the platoon, but you could move one squad before the game starts.

[Sort Of Purple]

it does raise questions. Creed can only give one unit Scout. Platoons only count as a single unit for deploying in limited deployment missions, it doesn't apply to this. So that can only be one squad (and their chimera if they deploy in it).

The issue is that they are rolled for collectively for reserves. Do they all have to go into reserve if one of them does. I believe not, but I'm no lawyer.

Personally I believe that only unit can outflank with Creed. But they will turn up at the same time as any other platoon member in reserve, just in a different place entirely. Doesn't make complete sense, but what does?

[Tynskel]

the guard is deployed all at the same time according to the codex. That's what the codex + FAQ states.

[Sort Of Purple]

Where does it say they must deploy together?
Whilst it is true they will generally show up together as they will usually all start on the board, or show up at the same time from reserve. Nowhere does it say some elements can be reserved, whilst some deploy normally. Only case for otherwise is that the reserve roll is for the whole platoon. But it's a not a roll to go into reserve. So we are left with a slight rules mess, as always.

The faq only clears up that they only count as a single unit for missions that limit the number of units you can deploy. Which doesn't apply here at all. What the codex states for this is irrelevant, as it the line is replaced by the FAQ entry.

[Samules]

It looks to me like the platoon is one unit until they are placed on the table, but I think we won't have an answer until GW gives a ruling on it.

[Tynskel]

no. it is not one unit. it is just one 'choice' for deployment.

[karandras]

This is a mess.... throw in the ability of "Combined Squads" and it is an even bigger mess!!!

[Turner]

no. it is not one unit. it is just one 'choice' for deployment.


Interesting, that's actually the exact opposite of what it says. (well not really the exact opposite but suffice to say it doesn't say that.)

The "Imperial guard Offcial Update Version 1.1" actually* says:

Page 96 – Infantry Platoon, second sentence
Change to “Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place
of a single unit in missions that limit the number units
that can be deployed. In addition when making a
reserve or outflanking roll, roll once for the whole
Infantry Platoon. Any units in reserve that are
embarked upon a non-dedicated transport are instead
rolled for separately.”


And if we take a look at the Imperial Guard codex, specifically page 57:

Tactical Genius: During deployment, choose a single infantry or vehicle unit in your army. That unit has the Scouts special rule for the duration of the battle.



So, if we take a strictly rules as written approach to this, in a mission that limits the number of units that can be deployed, each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit... and can not gain the Scouts special rule from Tactical Genius. Why? Because that's just silly, NO! Don't use those types of arguments! Have specific examples, such as showing the two rules as previously shown above, and use some style of argument... like the "rules as written" argument. (We are all adhering to a completely arbitrary set of rules to begin) Tactical Genius states that you choose a single infantry or vehicle unit in your army. The new FAQ states that each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place of a single unit. Alright, so is what you are choosing a single infantry or vehicle unit? No, it is multiple infantry units, possibly even multiple vehicles (depending on how many dedicated transports you want to squeeeeeeeze in) although, for the purposes of deployment in missions that limit the number units that can be deployed, they are deployed as a single unit.







* http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2170011a_Imperial_Guard_FAQ_Version_1_1_January_2 012.pdf

[bfmusashi]

"Each Infantry Platoon is deployed in place
of a single unit in missions that limit the number units
that can be deployed" does not say the platoon is one unit all the time.

[theirkin]

aren't you guys ignoring a very important bit of verbage in the RAW argument? a unit "deploys" during deployment, but they "arrive" from reserves. therefore the tactical genius argument is a non-issue, as from a strictly RAW argument, that clarification from the FAQ doesn't cover anything that would happen for the purposes of scouts, as a unit never "deploys" from reserves so any dispensations given to units that require it to "deploy" don't work for reserves. at least that's how it's been explained to me and makes sense in my eyes.

joe

[SeattleDV8]

aren't you guys ignoring a very important bit of verbage in the RAW argument? a unit "deploys" during deployment, but they "arrive" from reserves. therefore the tactical genius argument is a non-issue, as from a strictly RAW argument, that clarification from the FAQ doesn't cover anything that would happen for the purposes of scouts, as a unit never "deploys" from reserves so any dispensations given to units that require it to "deploy" don't work for reserves. at least that's how it's been explained to me and makes sense in my eyes.


Thats a nice theory, shame about it being wrong though.

BRB pg. 94
Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it

[Tynskel]

yeah, you don't wanna open that can of worms!

[SeattleDV8]

Heh, we did kinda run that one into the ground.

[Tynskel]

Heh, we did kinda run that one into the ground.

:)

So much so, that GW actually F(r)AQed it.

[Tynskel]

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[Tynskel]

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[Tynskel]

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[Tynskel]

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[Wolfshade]

Do you report these posts?
Also, why is it only certain ones that get spammed?
Furthermore, why does not a mod ban the account?

[DrLove42]

Cos our mods are all Yanks, so are only on half the time at best, and even then not always. I always report these posts if and when i see the,....

[Tynskel]

Cos our mods are all Yanks, so are only on half the time at best, and even then not always. I always report these posts if and when i see the,....

But, Mr. Cybotsandfords is giving us an opportunity we cannot miss! Look, pills that make body parts bigger!