Potato, err I mean Grenade!

[Turner]

That's right, those fiddly little buggers that no one can figure out how they work so the just dumb-ed them down so everyone can use them.

You have a Space Marine squad sitting in a forest (area terrain) and they've been shot up a little bit, some one's have been rolled so they are sitting at 5 guys strong, all equipped the same, no difference in anything. An Imperial Guard squad rolls up exactly 1" away from them, in like a giant circle around them. So if this 50man blob wants to assault them an not strike at Int 1 they better have some grenades right? Wrong, they better have some potatoes, some rocks, possibly a twig, empty soda bottle, whatever just something that's a piece of junk. Grenades are valuable, I mean str 4 plus D6 against vehicles, that's pretty good. Against guys in cover? Ehhhhhhhh not really worth it, just throw a a potato or something. I mean seriously? 50+ guys all throwing grenades at 5 space marines and not one guy goes down? The sheer number of grenades would take one marine down, but they just duct their heads and they are fine. Yeah or how about they duct their heads, 4/6ths of them are fine (2/3rds for those of you playing the home game) and we move on with the game. I mean seriously, my same guardsmen duct all the time (and some times for no reason at all) and they still get shot to pieces, but a grenade? Well we just dodge that. Oh really? I wasn't aware that you just dodge grenades now, Oh looks like you actually don't. See if I take this grenade launcher-Ahhhh I see, because it says grenade launcher that makes it so you lose your ability to just duct and be fine?

Start modeling your men/bugs/fungus/fishhorses/ninjagingerbreadmen with potatoes and grenades, that way it will be WYSIWYG.

[gendoikari87]

I think the increased dead from grenades is supposed to come from the extra dead from assault due to striking faster. But I hear ya, it's weird. Especially if you have a squad of 10 vets with melta bombs, your going to tell me they're going to start swinging swords at the guys in 2 inch thick armor instead of tossing the incredibly powerful bombs and GTFO of there? Seems to me nuclear hand grenade > than sword, but that's just me.

[phoenix01]

Your potatoes could come in different flavors. Mashed, Sweet, French-fried, and Salad. Kind of like the Grey Knights grenades.

[heretic marine]

so true. i hope in 6th edition they add the ability to kill guys with grenades (not grenade launchers), but how they are going with rules and stuff they wont:mad:

[roncarlin2002]

they tried that, back in 2nd ed I think. The game very quickly devolved into 2 lines of troops advancing to grenade range, then just throwing grenades at each other as opposed to using any other weaponry.

I doubt we will ever go back to anything resembling that.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

What if they use German-style "potato masher" grenades. Would that be better?

[Uncle Nutsy]

i've always been a fan of the wet toilet paper roll. works just as good.

[kellyj]

Now I have images of Jokero monkeys flinging poo at the noble Space Marine...who runs away in fear of getting his armor stink-bombed.

[Wolfshade]

they tried that, back in 2nd ed I think. The game very quickly devolved into 2 lines of troops advancing to grenade range, then just throwing grenades at each other as opposed to using any other weaponry.
I doubt we will ever go back to anything resembling that.
Those crazy days of 2nd ed. Of course you had some crazy grenades, all with their own template. I mean do you remember the size of the tanglefoot grenade blast marker?!
The only one that has surived is the vorte and only because of apocalypse.

[Psychosplodge]

But second edition grenades were fun!
Remember the random behaviour of things like plasma grenades, halloucegen grenades, vortex grenades etc.

[Col.Gravis]

Throwing grenades with scatter dice and templates is fine in a skirmish game, but given the typical number of models on the board with grenades these days it would be horrendous - as much as I loved 2nd Edition some rules and mechanics are better left buried.

Oh and you could never use Meltabombs on Infantry... they are a weapon which is stuck to armour, i.e. vehicles, not thrown, that mechanics is represented as being difficult enough on Dreadnoughts - on a Space Marine - he aint gonna stand around and let you funnily enough.

[=Angel=]

Once per game a light infantry unit may use tube charges. Resolve one attack as follows:

Tanith tube charges.
S5+X, ap6-X, small blast.
X is the number of Tanith models using tube charges, number does not exceed S10, ap1.
Additional charges grant (in the following order)
lance
Ignores cover
melta
destroyer
Removes terrain
Wins game (requires an 11th squad member such as a Commissar Lord)

[Kiarr]

Personally I dont like grenades as they are now its just bonkers that troops move up to 6 inches off the enemy then charge in whilst throwing grenades and running in after them, personally I think they should be one use and you can either lob them at the enemy at one point say small blast and ignoring cover (multiple frags exploding near you isnt going to give you much of a space to hide (one of the point of using grenades))

Or if you use them as defence then the attacking unit automatically fails charge - signifying getting grenades being chucked at them as they attempt to get to their enemy (or possibly causing a difficult terrain test) - maybe also make it so that fearless ignores the rule as they dont care and that you have to have at least one grenade per 2 assaulting troops) none of this causes casulties

Yes in second edition it turned into 2 line advancing and throwing grenades but thats pretty much how wars are fought at the moment if 2 units get close to each other - really its very rare that you actully get within touching distance with the enemy but even if assault troops really existed they wouldnt want to assault through grenades!

[Captainparty]

they tried that, back in 2nd ed I think. The game very quickly devolved into 2 lines of troops advancing to grenade range, then just throwing grenades at each other as opposed to using any other weaponry.

I doubt we will ever go back to anything resembling that.

No it didn't, grenades in the game were mainly situation, frags were good for people in cover as they ignored the save modifier for cover (Saves work very differenty back then, weapons decresed your save roll, cover increased it) The exotic ones were rare, apart from the vortex grenades, at 50 points (back in 2nd a Space Marine was 30 points) you had to take one if you could! Grenades were one of the least problematic parts of 2nd really, compared with complicated vehicle rules and armour pentration being tricky to work out and Stratergy cards that could wipe out most of an Ork army before the game even began unless they'd taken an otherwise useless Painboy with a Vaccine Squig wargear card.

[Xenith]

50+ guys all throwing grenades at 5 space marines and not one guy goes down? The sheer number of grenades would take one marine down, but they just duct their heads and they are fine

That would be because duct-tape is impenetrable. No pesky grenade is going to get through those sticky fibres.

[Kawauso]

I think some people are viewing the abstract use of grenades in the game currently a bit too literally.

The grenades aren't being lobbed by everyone in the assaulting unit to try and wipe the other squad out. It's more like tossing a grenade into a room after a door breach, and then moving in to 'assault'. The idea is that by tossing a few grenades the enemy has to dive for cover or keep their heads down, which gives the assaulting unit an advantage while they close the distance to get into melee.

I think it would add a lot of pointless additional math/time to the game (and potentially make other ranged weapons irrelevant) if grenades became ranged attacks, and that's not something I'd want to see.

[Turner]

I think some people are viewing the abstract use of grenades in the game currently a bit too literally.

The grenades aren't being lobbed by everyone in the assaulting unit to try and wipe the other squad out. It's more like tossing a grenade into a room after a door breach, and then moving in to 'assault'. The idea is that by tossing a few grenades the enemy has to dive for cover or keep their heads down, which gives the assaulting unit an advantage while they close the distance to get into melee.

I think it would add a lot of pointless additional math/time to the game (and potentially make other ranged weapons irrelevant) if grenades became ranged attacks, and that's not something I'd want to see.



True it is possible that people maybe viewing the abstract use of grenades in the game currently a bit to literally... However suppose it's a squad of genestealers, or gaunts or any other freaky 'Nid bug hiding in cover. You know they are there, just sitting, waiting, being a bug like wanting to eat your face, your friend's face and everyone elses too... Yeah let's huck some grenades in there, in fact let's all, as in all 50+ of us huck grenades... Yes of course it would turn into 6th ed. again where people march at each other toss grenades and yes is would be tedious time consuming and lots of math but why not suggest a one time use? You can assault all day long and have the benfits of grenades but if in the shotting phase you decide to toss grenades then that's it that unit basically "loses" their grenades. Fluff wise they all toss what they have, some a duds others fling wildly others scatter close and some hit dead on.

I just wanted to point out the odd way that grenades work and the impressive skills everyone has "ducting" against grenades but not stray shots.

[Azaghal]

The way grenades work in 40k has always bugged me, especially that for it was pretty obvious they should be ranged weapons. Add the fact that there's no entry specifically explaining how they work and the result is a very confused new player.

[DarkLink]

No one here has ever seen or heard of SWAT or the military using flashbangs to clear a room before? And we have people talking about what's "realistic"?

[Fstiger]

It was already mentioned , back in the old, old days of 2. ed grenades were quite offensive and fragmentation ones could tear holes in light infantry like you would not believe. But then again, heavy bolters left marines with a 5+ and my old warbikes with machine cannons even just a 6+ save.

1-2 vortex ones were my standard equipment pieces before considering anything else since my orks and later my chaos struggled hard against tanks. But the random movement after it was thrown was fun: it consumed upon occasion more of your troops then those of the pesky enemy. Just imagine one of them in normal 40k in the middle of a parking lot...tasty. Or warpy. Or even warpy tasty

If I could be undisputed dictator rules wise, I'd go an give them more boom in boosting the user or better nerfing the target, say reroll every 6 in cc or losing 1 point Initiative in the first round. Finally guard could face marines somewhat with combined squads! Putting more pressure on passivity is always good..