Empire pictures @ details

[eldargal]

Empire Army Book (ideal Premium/Hobby Account new release product) - Released 7th April
• 96p Full colour, Hardback Army Book.
• Essential guide to the Empire army including background, new rules, Army List, artwork and miniature gallery.
• Every Character and Unit in the Army Book is available to buy!
• Contains rules for brand new ‘never seen before’ miniatures.

Plastic Kits

Karl Franz on Deathclaw (ideal Premium/Hobby Account new release product) - Released 7th April
• This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes one of THREE different models; Karl Franz on Deathclaw, Empire General on Griffon or Amber Wizard Lord on Griffon.
• Assembled kit is huge- 6” high and 9” wide.
• A centerpiece kit that will appeal to both gamers and modelers/painters alike.
• Kit contains lots of extra pieces i.e. Multiple Chest plates and heads for the Griffon and more.


Empire Celestial Hurricanum / Luminark of Hysh (ideal Premium/Hobby Account new release product) - Released 7th April

• This box contains a multipart plastic kit that makes one of Two different models; or the.
o The Celestial Hurricanum: A rare choice for the Empire Army or a mount for a Celestial Battle Wizard Lord.
o Enhances the armies fighting abilities, spell casting and can create enchanted storms!

Or

o Luminark of Hysh: A rare choice for the Empire Army or a mount for a Light Battle Wizard Lord.
o Creates a magical enchantment that protects nearby troops and helps disrupt enemy spell casting and can fire deadly beam of light at the enemy!

• A centerpiece kit that will appeal to both gamers and modelers/painters alike.
• Each kit contains lots of extra parts e.g. Light and Celestial Battle Wizard lords, Acolytes etc.
Volkmar the Grim on The War Altar of Sigmar (ideal Premium/Hobby Account new release product) - Released 7th April

• This box contains a multipart plastic kit that constructs the mighty War Altar of Sigmar.
• Standing 7” high it is a centerpiece kit that will appeal to both gamers and modelers/painters alike.
• The War Altar is a Lord choice as it can be a mount for either Volkmar or an Arch Lector.


Empire Demigryph Knights (ideal Premium/Hobby Account new release product) - Released 7th April

• This box contains enough multipart plastic pieces to assemble three Demigryph Knights- Elite Monstrous Cavalry that are a Special choice in the Empire Army Book.
• The kit allows you to model the rank and file Inner Circle Knights or a full command group or a mixture of both.
• The kit allows them to take lances or a cavalry Halberd.

Empire Master Engineer (ideal Premium/Hobby Account new release product) - Released 7th April

• Plastic Frame Clampack that contains one Master Engineer.
• The Master Engineer is a Hero Choice in the army.
• The Master Engineer is easy to assemble and can be assembled in different ways.

Captain of the Empire (ideal Premium/Hobby Account new release product) - Released 7th April

• Plastic Frame Clampack that contains one Captain of the Empire.
• The Captain of the Empire is a Hero Choice in the army.
• The Captain of the Empire is easy to assemble and comes with 2 heads to choose from.
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/empirecover.jpg
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/564462_2893200324909_1107322641_32157045_161908043 7_n.jpg
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/554584_2893198764870_1107322641_32157043_891982539 _n.jpg
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/536743_2893203124979_1107322641_32157049_864864845 _n1.jpg
Omigod the griffons are beautiful I must have.

[eldargal]

Not as entranced by the big magic thing as I was by the Coven Throne but it is still rather pretty.

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/538143_2893205965050_1107322641_32157052_206731537 2_n.jpg
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/536743_2893203124979_1107322641_32157049_864864845 _n1-1.jpg
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/561404_2893204605016_1107322641_32157050_133549896 3_n.jpg
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/564267_2893210565165_1107322641_32157056_200163467 9_n.jpg

[eldargal]

Prettiness overwhelming
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/529761_2893211565190_1107322641_32157057_605564247 _n.jpg

And the moment you've all been waiting for, Demigrph Knights
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/545604_2893209525139_1107322641_32157055_109871807 5_n.jpg
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb415/Sybarite6/552557_2893207365085_1107322641_32157053_191810271 3_n.jpg

[eldargal]

My thoughts:



Cover: I like it, his face is a bit odd but if I wanted an army of pretty boys I'd play High Elves (which I do as well, come to think of it)

Griffon/Karl Franz: Love it, just love it. The griffon looks magnificient, the double headed version slightly less so but still nice. Karl Franz/general looks lovely.

War Altar. For the first time I actually want a war altar, never cared for it in the past. So pretty now. Ditto the celestial thingamy and luminark.

The Witch hunter is nice, the amber wizard less so. Naked woodsmen not really my thing. Want a better look at Markus before I venture an opinion.

Master Engineer/Captain plastics: Gorgeous.

Demigryph knights: So much better than I was expecting, I love them. Really love them.

GW, it is only April and you've already knocked it out of the wossname with VC and now Empire. Argh, I love that griffon so much. I want a pet griffon.:(

[energongoodie]

That Griffon is awesome. I love that tiger paint scheme. The other models leave me a bit underwhelmed. I don't really know what I was expecting stuff to look like but I guess I was expecting a bit more wow. The recent fantasy releases have been outstanding. This...not so much.

[Brakkart]

Wow that griffon is really something, that just oozes majesty in that pose, so much badass wrapped up in that figure. Liking the look of the rest, especially the new figure for Volkmar the Grim. the Demigryph knights are a lot better than I thought they would be (didn't like the FW one at all), even more so when seen as a unit together.

The Wizard War Altars are pretty cool, especially the Celestial one, I can see the giant astrolabe on top of that being used for scenery (it would look a lot better atop that recent tower than the skeletal air traffic controller for sure!)

My only complaint is the book cover, because it looks like the captain there has been drinking rather heavily, cos his nose seems to be bright red! Though to be fair if my job involved facing off against some of the horrors the Empires troops routinely have to deal with, I think heavy drinking would be the least I'd do to cope with it!

Actually two complaints, because no sign of warrior priests of Ulric & Morr, the Empire does not just worship Sigmar!

[mirbeau]

Almost universally lovely stuff, especially excited about K.F and Volkmar - not 100% on the captain and some of the options on the big kits yet, may need to see them in person.

[wittdooley]

My thoughts:



Griffon/Karl Franz: Love it, just love it. The griffon looks magnificient, the double headed version slightly less so but still nice. Karl Franz/general looks lovely.



Agreed. What an amazing kit. I can't get over how nice it looks. So regal, so lordly. Amazing.




War Altar. For the first time I actually want a war altar, never cared for it in the past. So pretty now. Ditto the celestial thingamy and luminark.

Well, that's because the previous model was a giant, stinky, piece of poop. My only problem with the new one is that I like all three variants far too much. That means I'm going to be in for three boxes. Doh!



The Witch hunter is nice, the amber wizard less so. Naked woodsmen not really my thing. Want a better look at Markus before I venture an opinion.

Master Engineer/Captain plastics: Gorgeous.

Strange; I figured naked woodsmen would be RIGHT up your ally :D. I like all of the single pieces. GW really hitting it out of the park with the new plastic characters, it makes me hope that they move to them completely.



Demigryph knights: So much better than I was expecting, I love them. Really love them.


Agreed. I think they're lovely. My only hope is that they scaled them correctly so that Bruckner fits in a unit with them.

Wow, GW. Just wow. Home run here.

[fuzzyguy]

Solid release all around. These will make fine additions to my Averland force.

I rather like the big griffon, but the demigryphs do nothing for me. We'll see how I feel about them after I see them in person.

I love the book cover. Is that Paul Bonner's handiwork?

[Brakkart]

I like all of the single pieces. GW really hitting it out of the park with the new plastic characters, it makes me hope that they move to them completely.

Yeah I think going this route would have been a lot better than Finecast, and hopefully in time they might well drop Finecast and move to plastics entirely, because nobody does plastic figures anywhere near as good as they do.

[Nightstalker]

I think this is the worst release since the new edition started.
The griffon looks nice, but is way out of proportion. it makes the new black dragon look like a worm with wings.
the demigriffons are outstanding ugly (i liked the ones from FW a lot more).
The engineer and the Captain look like you can easyly make up a similar/ better version with bitz from the troop boxes.
Volkmar the Grim looks stunning but the war altar seems like to be crushed under the weight of the statue on top of it any second.
The Luminark and the Hurricanum may end up as parts of scenery. im not sure yet if i like those. Well they are far to advanced for my empire army anyway.
I like the witch hunter, Markus and the warrior priest.
the amber mage might look nice without the antlers, and the option for a bear paw is a nice idea.
all in all compared to the other releases since the new edition started, this one is the lamest release, biggest + i didnt count that many skulls

[Chris*ta]

I've got to say, I was against the idea of demigryph knights when I first heard the rumour, and also when I saw the FW ones.

But these models are really nice. I especially like the armour plate on the captain's mount. It reminds me of some of the ancient art from Warhammer done by ... Ian Miller, I think it is.

[Lexington]

Man, I am 90% in love with that Griffon, but the tiny head...the tiny lil' head. Augh, it's driving me nuts. Franz himself is also so damn small, he's almost impossible to make out properly. The other riders seem to fare a bit better, though, especially the Amber Wizard. Real mixed bag of a kit.

The War Altar/Lighthouse/Portable Solar System is...ugh. Great parts, if not great ideas, but it suffers a lot from having to serve as three things, and not a one of them looks like it'd be suitably stable atop that itty-bitty carriage. The statue on the War Altar particularly seems like a slight jostling would cause the statue to fall through its base and bury itself six feet into the ground.

Demigryph Knights! Fun idea, sort of static in their posing (anyone else get a 4th Ed WHFB vibe from them?), but not bad overall. The Reiksguard dream of having barding that nice.

The single figures are a weird contrast. The Captain's completely uninspiring, and the Engineer is lost in his ungainly contraption, but I think that Witch Hunter's by far the best single thing in the whole release. Seriously looks like he could stare down hell itself. The Warrior Priest is solid and well-executed, too.

Not with Nightstalker on the "worst release of 8th" thing (for all it's flaws, it's still a million times better than the awful O&G stuff from last year), but it's kinda disappointing. I'm left feeling like GW's trying too hard to be Big and Impressive here, as compared to just good.

[Nightstalker]

The War Altar/Lighthouse/Portable Solar System is...ugh. Great parts, if not great ideas, but it suffers a lot from having to serve as three things, and not a one of them looks like it'd be suitably stable atop that itty-bitty carriage. The statue on the War Altar particularly seems like a slight jostling would cause the statue to fall through its base and bury itself six feet into the ground.


i think the war altar is a different box, than the luminark/ hurricanum, since its listed extra on the price list.

[Chris*ta]

The griffon looks nice, but is way out of proportion. it makes the new black dragon look like a worm with wings.
I like the scale of the griffon, if I was likely to fight a Chaos Warrior on a Dragon, an Orc Boss on a Wyvern, or any of the other likely opponents, I wouldn't want a mount that is not much larger than a horse.


the demigriffons are outstanding ugly (i liked the ones from FW a lot more).
I don't know. The FW ones don't look griffin-like to me at all.


The engineer and the Captain look like you can easyly make up a similar/ better version with bitz from the troop boxes.
I'd consider these, especially the captain, as upgrade sprues for making hero-level characters.


The Luminark and the Hurricanum may end up as parts of scenery. im not sure yet if i like those. Well they are far to advanced for my empire army anyway.
I really like both the bits that go on top, the orrery especially makes me want to build something just to use that bit. And I like the top-heavy feeling of the cart, it epitomises the aesthetic of Warhammer and especially the Empire. Think of the wizard's tower terrain that was released recently, or much of the terrain that the studio made for the last Empire book, or the landship from FW.


all in all compared to the other releases since the new edition started, this one is the lamest release, biggest + i didnt count that many skulls
Well there's your problem. Clearly you don't understand the first rule of Warhammer ... MOAR SKULLZ! ;)

Sorry, I don't mean to attack you, I think this is on e of those things that we'll have to disagree on.

[Lexington]

i think the war altar is a different box, than the luminark/ hurricanum, since its listed extra on the price list.
Hey, good point! Still, even if it's sold separately, I think it was pretty clearly designed as a single kit initially - so many of the same pieces, structure, etc. There's not a lot to save from the wizardly versions, but you could probably fix the War Altar up by just removing the "carriage" pieces, and bringing the statue/Volkmar down a bit so it worked more like the original model. The statue would still look way too ungainly, I think, but it'd at least look a tad more sensible.

[Tenbears]

I like that Warhammer FANTASY is becoming more fantastic. I like the over-the-top miniatures and monsters. Sometimes the game seems to want to venture into Historical territory too much, especially the Empire.
If they ever release new plastic Knights I would start an Empire army, just to have the option of an all cav army.

[Transmutedelf]

My girlfriend collects Empire due to the great amount of horses they can field. Looking at the quality of the demigryphs I believe she might find something else she will want to add to her growing army. damn Im going to be broke when this comes out. Beautiful models.

[Nightstalker]

I like the scale of the griffon, if I was likely to fight a Chaos Warrior on a Dragon, an Orc Boss on a Wyvern, or any of the other likely opponents, I wouldn't want a mount that is not much larger than a horse.


sure that, still compared to the griffon, the dragons are small, and i think those should at least feel like they are bigger than a griffon.



I don't know. The FW ones don't look griffin-like to me at all.


i prefer the talons from the FW one, from the way the unit moves they look like horses with griffon heads. the blood knights from the vampire counts have the same problem, the movement of the horses look like cats. i think i have to take a look on those first to see if i like them.



I'd consider these, especially the captain, as upgrade sprues for making hero-level characters.


havent looked into the greatswords or hunter box yet, but the Engineer and is easyly done with spare bitz from the handgunner box, maybe not with that amount of blingbling and stuff and a different head but much more personalized.



I really like both the bits that go on top, the orrery especially makes me want to build something just to use that bit. And I like the top-heavy feeling of the cart, it epitomises the aesthetic of Warhammer and especially the Empire. Think of the wizard's tower terrain that was released recently, or much of the terrain that the studio made for the last Empire book, or the landship from FW.


im not sure yet if i like those. the bits really are great, but none of em fits into my sylvania themed army.



Well there's your problem. Clearly you don't understand the first rule of Warhammer ... MOAR SKULLZ! ;)


dont think i dont like skulls (i got an army of vampire counts, tomb kings and dark elves for that and my nightgoblin army may have a few skulls too), but the empire has enough other interesting symbols, like the comet, the griffon, the hammer, symbols from other gods etc. a shame to put a skull everywhere, and why should normal troops have a skull tagged to their belt? by the way i dont like the overuse of skulls with the new models of the tomb kings either (especially the Sphinx has a lot of those) when there is an endless amound of hieroglyphs to use.



Sorry, I don't mean to attack you, I think this is on e of those things that we'll have to disagree on.

no offence taken. there is no accounting for taste, but you can still talk about it ;)

[celestialatc]

Urrgghh.....if I was not waiting for the Chaos Space Marines book in may, I would totally start an empire army. The new models look amazing.....

When the time comes for Warriors of Chaos I hope the Chaos Warriors will get remodeled and look awesome!

[Chris*ta]

Cover: I like it, his face is a bit odd but if I wanted an army of pretty boys I'd play High Elves (which I do as well, come to think of it)
I've worked it out: He IS that uncle you avoid at christmas because he makes inappropriate drunken remarks to your girlfriend.

[Ardboy]

My initial reaction to the Griffon was way too big, but after looking at the pic for a while I think that it may not look as big in person. But besides size I love the sculpt.

Also, with these Lore specific upgrades to the Wizards (Celestial, Amber, and Light) does anybody think that the other Lores will have any upgrades or are these three getting all the love?

[Anon!]

I've worked it out: He IS that uncle you avoid at christmas because he makes inappropriate drunken remarks to your girlfriend.

It's clearly Nigel Thornberry with a beard.

EDIT: I also feel the need to point out that the Griffon appears to be wearing part of a Steam Tank. I repeat - it is wearing a tank. GW, all is forgiven.

[xxvaderxx]

Damn, the only thing i like from all that crapp is the walter/magic mobos. The rest is crap.

[T-ORK-amada]

Sweet, those demigryphs will make a sweet conversion for Howling griffons on mounts....

[Souba]

damn, i wanted to start tomb kings but these models are stunning.

[Brakkart]

As to the size of the griffon, gotta bear in mind that the Empire has been breeding Griffons for a long time now, hundreds of years in fact. In one of the Sigmar Trilogy of novels one of Sigmar's friends starts a breeding program to produce horses capable of carrying warriors in the full plate armour that the humans & dwarves together have invented and within a couple decades he has indeed produced such animals. A breeding program over that length of time designed to produce bigger and stronger Griffons... yeah I can absolutely believe they would be that sort of size.

[Generalian]

those warmachines look TIGHT

[Colonel Kane]

I like the wizard wagons.

[Chronowraith]

As I've said elsewhere... I'm actually underwhelmed by the release.

I do love the griffin... love it. It has a comical majesty to it... Roid-Claw! I also love the demigryph knights. When the rumors of these first came out I looked at FW Bruckner & Reaper and thought, "Ugh, those will be hideous models". Totally not so and I'm glad that GW didn't take the route of the Tomb Kings and mounted them on smaller bases.

The Altar, while much improved over the last incarnation, is sort of ho-hum middle of the road for me. The different wizard coaches are pretty much the same, although I do semi-like the hurricanium. My biggest beef with those kits? They use the same horses and same basic "wagon" section and just a new top... even the War Altar which is technically a separate kit is the same basic cart/wagon with a different hood ornament. So bleh. I'm also not fond of the Luminarch for gameplay reasons... really? A laser? *Sighs*

What is with gaming companies and wagons lately? PP did two wagons last year and now GW feels the need to up the ante with three? I don't get it...

As for characters, all the new ones look brilliant, although I'm less fond of the empire captain. The engineer is bloody brilliant though and I do really like the Witch Hunter.

So here's hoping that the rules for these units will be solid. I'm still on the fence as far as whether or not I will play Empire... but regardless I will pick up the book , a griffin, and a box (or two) of demigryph knights if nothing else.

[eldargal]

I don't think the proportions of the griffon are off personally, I think the prolem is the armour and wings give an impression of great bulk at that angle. I think it is quite a bit sleeker than the photo suggests. It also seems in keeping with real antecedents as much as a fantasy critter should:
http://blog.thefoundationstone.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/giant-eagle_MG1393.jpg

I don't particularly like the idea of a laser, but it isn't really a laser. If you read the description it focues magic cast into a bolt, not a ray of magic. Not light. Might be semantics to some but to me it makes a considerable difference.

I'm not sure why people (here and on Warseer) are being so hardh on the captain and engineer, I think they look wonderful. A little less comical (they are sclpted by the Perry twins afterall) but oozing Empire character.


Dirty, smelly hairy and probably covered in god knows what due to a lack of adequate lavatories? No thanks.:p I see a boy drive past on one of those griffons, though, totally different situation...

Strange; I figured naked woodsmen would be RIGHT up your ally :D. I like all of the single pieces. GW really hitting it out of the park with the new plastic characters, it makes me hope that they move to them completely.

[Drakkan Vael]

I kinda like the new empire especially the demigryphs and the griffon. The rest is good but not that spectacular in comparison to the new Vampires.

Sadly a lot of finecrap as well.

[pauljc]

Yeah, that griffon is truly epic! I'm probably gonna have to get one just to paint. Seriously, I challenge any company to do the same beautiful stuff with plastic that GW is doing right now. This is a fabulous era to be wargaming in!

Everything else looks good. Finecast stuff is kewl.

I quite like the cover also. Way better than that lazy piece of crap produced for VC, where it looks as though the artist simply couldn't be bothered/ran out of time, to finish the piece.

[Brakkart]

I see a boy drive past on one of those griffons, though, totally different situation...

"It's the Griffon right? Chicks love the Griffon" :D

Also looking at the BOLS article on this release, I note a tonne of finecast re-releases of the older metal models (including Marius Leitdorf and Balthasar Gelt), and a 3 pack of Valten's figures as well as the Halfling Hot-Pot Catapult. Might we hope that there will be rules for them in the book? I've always liked Valten, a great character story backed with superb figures to represent him.

[Deadlift]

Underwhelmed to be honest, but then I always found empire to be a little bland. The year of 40k certainly seems to have had an interesting start :confused:

[eldargal]

The planetarium wossname on the Celestial thingamie all moves! So buying one now, also buying a second one to use as part of my planned Empire observatory complex using the Skullvane Manse and other things.

[lattd]

Am i the only one who thinks the griffon is in proportion, take a look at a pigeon or a peacock, look very similar. All in all some very nice models imho, shape the troops models suck, although the captain model is a bit meh.

[phoenix01]

My only complaint is the book cover, because it looks like the captain there has been drinking rather heavily, cos his nose seems to be bright red! Though to be fair if my job involved facing off against some of the horrors the Empires troops routinely have to deal with, I think heavy drinking would be the least I'd do to cope with it!

A little back story about that general on the cover.

His name is Rudolph and he has a deformity: a shiny nose. As a young man, none of the other soldiers would allow him to play any wargames. Instead, they would laugh at him and call him names like "Mutant". They also laughed at his friend, a High Elf named Hermey, whose deepest desire was to become a dentist, but really do you expect anything else from the elves?. This caused him to drink, making his nose all the more red and shiny.

Then one foggy Yuletime's eve, Karl Franz was waging a battle aginst some undead that were attacking. It was dark and foggy and things looked pretty grim. The emperor saw Rudolph's nose and had to shield his eyes. "Rudolph with your nose so bright, won't you lead the charge against the vampires tonight?"

Then all his peers loved him as they shouted out with glee, "Rudolph the red-nosed general will be the perfect tactical diversion for us; the enemy will think it's magic and will direct all their troops against him. Too bad he'll get overwhelmed and go down fighting, but he'll go down in history."

[Spectral Dragon]

Those demogryphs are a real surprise. I may get some just to paint them.

[lattd]

A little back story about that general on the cover.

His name is Rudolph and he has a deformity: a shiny nose. As a young man, none of the other soldiers would allow him to play any wargames. Instead, they would laugh at him and call him names like "Mutant". They also laughed at his friend, a High Elf named Hermey, whose deepest desire was to become a dentist, but really do you expect anything else from the elves?. This caused him to drink, making his nose all the more red and shiny.

Then one foggy Yuletime's eve, Karl Franz was waging a battle aginst some undead that were attacking. It was dark and foggy and things looked pretty grim. The emperor saw Rudolph's nose and had to shield his eyes. "Rudolph with your nose so bright, won't you lead the charge against the vampires tonight?"

Then all his peers loved him as they shouted out with glee, "Rudolph the red-nosed general will be the perfect tactical diversion for us; the enemy will think it's magic and will direct all their troops against him. Too bad he'll get overwhelmed and go down fighting, but he'll go down in history."

Sooo much win haha.

[faeslayer]

The planetarium wossname on the Celestial thingamie all moves! So buying one now, also buying a second one to use as part of my planned Empire observatory complex using the Skullvane Manse and other things.

It MOVES?

I want this thing!

[Garradh]

If only I hadn't sold my Empire army, I could make a mint selling my Empire army!

[billytwix]

Oh empire goodies. Why must you haunt me. When i have the time i dont have the cash. When i have the cash, i dont have the time. Whyyyyie baltazar whyyyyyyyyyy

[daKrovar]

these are very good tidings for the Empire, can't wait to pick the new book up, thanks for the info Eldargal

[Lord Tothe]

Looks awesome!

[scadugenga]

I see a boy drive past on one of those griffons, though, totally different situation...

I can just imagine that situation:

I believe it ends up with a confused boy wondering why the beautiful girl ran off atop his griffon and left him by the wayside...

;P

[WYSIWYG]

I play Space Sharks using the Space wolves codex, and have been a little bummed out becuase I had no way of playing thunderwolf cavalry. However when I saw the demigryphs I totaly awesome faced, as I now have a model to represent Thunderwolves for my Space Sharks.

[Samules]

I gotta say I like The Empire's new look

[Houghten]

I'm also not fond of the Luminarch for gameplay reasons... really? A laser? *Sighs*

Eh, I'm cool with it. Skaven have lightning guns, and the Curse of Zandri has a heat ray, so what's wrong with FIRIN MAH LASER?


Oh empire goodies. Why must you haunt me.

For some reason, I misread that as "energon goodies"...

[Jerseyboy381]

I was very concerned the Demigryphs would be terrible, but they did a good job. Still not paying $50 for them but they look great

[Wildeybeast]

Commence the dance of joy! Yet more fantastic stuff to add to the already superb empire range! I love all of it (apart from the book cover, but then I've not been enamoured with any of the single character covers for 8th ed, I prefer the battle scenes) and the demigryph knights are awesome!

[Rich_B]

I like them, I just feel bad for my poor Orcs... First book out of the gate in the new edition for the second time and yet again they seem to be... Somewhat lacking compared to subsequent releases :(

Ho hum...

Sorely tempted to get some Demigryph knights just to paint.

[Cartographer]

Bandwidth exceeded = sad panda :(

[Xess]

God almost makes me want to start Fantasy. Dem Demigriffons!

[mjasghar]

sorry why do i keep getting sorry excceds bandwith for all but 1 of these photos? :(

[eldargal]

Spot on.:)

I can just imagine that situation:

I believe it ends up with a confused boy wondering why the beautiful girl ran off atop his griffon and left him by the wayside...

;P

Some more pictures:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136553&d=1332956124
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136551&d=1332955930
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136556&d=1332956222

[eldargal]

Regarding the bandwidth issue, clearly that persons photobucket account has been overwhelmed by the people viewing the Empire pictures. If it weren't passed my bedtime already I'd re-upload them to a friends. If you're desperate, pop over to Warseer and check them out in pos 3-4 of The Empire rumours' in the WFB news adn rumour section.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136556&d=1332956222
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136549&d=1332955828
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=136558&d=1332956303

[bobdole4]

Looks great. I may need to get into Fantasy soon.

[Wildeybeast]

I'm curious. There is an amber wizard, but GW seems to have forgotten that we still don't have shadow or jade wizards. A shame, given what a nice job they have doen with all these models.

[Houghten]

You can do Shadow pretty well with the regular plastic kit. Jade, admittedly, is somewhat lacking unless you convert a Wood Elf.

[Jampire]

Sad face... Can't view the pics on my phone due to bandwidth overload. I gotta wait 5 more hours till I get off work :(

[casetower]

Mmmmm, I don't know. Alot of them seem what's that word to "busy" or something like that. I'd like to see some in person.

[casetower]

Sad face... Can't view the pics on my phone due to bandwidth overload. I gotta wait 5 more hours till I get off work :(

Jampire Best name ever ! So many different uses I'm stealing it for :D

[Jampire]

I've been using Jampire for 10 years. There's a funny story behind it involving my name and Vampire: the Masquerade.

[Ebon Hand]

GW has outdone themselves yet again. Those Demigriffs look amazing, and those crazy thingamabobs no doubt do crazy stuff in game. Lucky Empire players!

[Jampire]

Now that I've seen the pics I gotta say other than the Griffin kit and the Witch Hunter the rest is kinda... Meh.

[artfcllyflvrd]

I love almost all of it.

The wizard wagon/war altar seem top heavy to me. But the rest really has me entranced. Pretty sure I will be starting an empire army this summer.

[Baeltor]

Interesting. I may even see some new undead recruits in those.

[Misty]

I like the work they did on them but notthe models themselves if that makes any sense. But then again I'm not an Empire fan.

[strawberry]

Hate to sound like a fanboy but I like 'em all. Every last one.

[Corax.69]

The proportions on the giant griffins looks totally out of wack. The chest looks comically large, and the heads are far too small.

I do like the demigriffins. Somewhere, there will be a conversion that turns them into chocobos.

[Beerzerker]

Any pictures of Empire Reiksguard Knights/ Knightly Orders, Empire Archers and Halfling Hot Pot Catapult?

[eldargal]

Yes, they are all on the GW website already on account of not getting new models.;)

Oh and ADvance Orders are up.

My name is Karl Franz and I get all the attractive women when I ride my Griffon. Find out how you too can own your very own women attracting Imperial Griffin by contacting me at 1 Imperial Plaza, Altdorf:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350408a_99120202030_KarlFranz01_873x627.jpg

[brothernuni]

that is a mighty looking griffon. a very royal pose.

[billytwix]

Is no one but me miffed that the war altar and the wiz wagons are being sold as two different kits when they are using THE SAME WAGON! Even if there are subtle differences, its the same wagon.

Not sure im down with " so instead of charging 60 for all three options, lets just charge 50 and make two kits out of it so that collectors are stuck in the 100 dollar zone instead of the top swap and character flip"

[Bushido]

Is no one but me miffed that the war altar and the wiz wagons are being sold as two different kits when they are using THE SAME WAGON! Even if there are subtle differences, its the same wagon.

Uhm, I hope you only play Fantasy because if you play 40k you're going to rage. Let's see:

Rhino/Razorback/Predator/Vindicator/Whirlwind/Chaos Rhino/Chaos Vindicator are *gasp* all the same basic chasis with "subtle" differences.

Then there's the Tau Devilfish/Hammerhead/Skyray, they're all basically the same, in fact it's a little secret that you can build any of the three out of just the skyray box.

[Wildeybeast]

My name is Karl Franz and I get all the attractive women when I ride my Griffon. Find out how you too can own your very own women attracting Imperial Griffin by contacting me at 1 Imperial Plaza, Altdorf:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350408a_99120202030_KarlFranz01_873x627.jpg

I will awesome give you lessons in how to make your enemies die just through your sheer awesomeness (or caving their skulls in with your epic hammer). Step one is to get yourself a posse of brothers who looks almost as awesome as you. Their rides should be suitably epic.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350866a_99120202032_DemigryphKnights05_873x627.j pg

Excitingly they have put the stats up for these fellas on the website. S5, W3, A3, armour pirecing, fear and 1+ Save!? Goodbye Reiksguard, hello Demigryphs.

EDIT: They have also finecasted all the old metal stuff, including the Hot Pot. Happy days!

[eldargal]

Yep, everything in the Empire range is now plastic or resin except the citizens of the empire range and the Blazing Sun Upgrade kits.

I've ordered one of everything and two of the luminark/hurricanum (one each obviously) and demigryphs. Really want to see how big demigryph units can be so I can buy more.:rolleyes:

[Wildeybeast]

I've oredered nearly one of everything two, except the warrior presit as I already have a load of those and I'm waiting to see the rules for Markus before I decide whether to field him. And they actually have rules for witch hunters, time to dig out my Mordheim models. This stuff is so unbelivably amazing I literally couldn't be any happier. I'm going to have to do a first for me and have it dleivered to my store to ensure I get it all on release day as I can't wait any longer. I'm actually sitting waiting for the postie to turn up with WD so I can read all about them.

[eldargal]

Ooh, yes I forgot, I didn't order Markus as I don't go in for SCs unless they have an exceptionally nice model. I have a thing for Warrior Priests, think I've got all of them. Engineers, too.

[Wildeybeast]

WD just turned up and it has the rules for Karl Franz are in there. Not much change from the old book except that sticking him on Deathclaw increases inspiring presence to 24" and Deathclaw has a rule that makes you take his terror tests on 3D6 and discard the lowest. Sweet!

[eldargal]

Any indication if the price of state troops has gone up? One rumour says they has, which could be a bit of an issue with the book if they aren't buffed somehow. They are overpriced/verging on overpriced now. Spearmen and swordsmen are largely useless compared to halberdiers, too. In the old book, I mean

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350423a_99120202030_KarlFranz04_873x627.jpg

To the buffet, Deathclaw!

YAY DINNA!

Zoggin 'Eck

[tleilax]

I'm just back from my GW store and I must say the Griffon is just amazing. Compared to the picture we get from WD the proportions are really fine! The army book is also very nice.

[eldargal]

Good to know.:) Did you get a look at the rules at all? Any chance you can say if state troops got a point increase/decrease?

This is what I love about the Perry twins, they know their history, so they get poses right:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350558a_99070202001_CaptainEmpire01_873x627.jpg
Most accurate aggressive two hand pose on a miniature ever. Some uninformed person on Warseer said it was silly because it looked like he was lining up a tricky pool shot. Sigh. I do hope the Perry twins get asked to sculpt any new knights that may eventuate.

[tleilax]

No sorry. The place was crowded and I didn't have enough time to really read the army book. But I must say it really looks great all in colour with a really nice map of the empire.

[eldargal]

Not to worry.:) Someone on Warseer has said all state troops go up 1pt except spearmen. A bit annoying but perhaps not as vexing as some people seem to think. I mean 30-40 extra points for a horde of halberdiers doesn't seem too terrible. More interested to see what happens with knights, they did need a bit of a buff or a points decrease.

Edit: Yay, knights get a -2pt adjustment.

[Chronowraith]

This stuff is so unbelivably amazing I literally couldn't be any happier. .

I would be if they had released the War Wagon :(

That being said... it is a great release. I'm slowly warming to the wizard wagons.

I'm likely going to start an Empire army, but, for now I think I'll continue to work on my Chaos Dwarves... and you know... actually paint the rest of my Skaven... only 4000 points to go!

[Samules]

It looks like the empire's range is now metal free. (well except for the scribe, duelist and the other accessories)

[Chronowraith]

I'm on the fence about the captain. I'm not a fan of the helm. The crest up top (the metal, not the feathers) bothers me and the face looks less like a skull and more like... a hamster. The sword... what can I say... I hate flamberges. I'd have been much happier with a straight-edged zweihander. Yes, I realize that the curved edge is actually deadly since it has more edge to cut and usually has reduced weight... I just don't like the aesthetic look of it.

That aside, the armor is beautiful. The breastplate with its fluting is superb and the tassets are very fitting. The face is done in nice detail and without any weird facial issues. Overall I love the level of detail this miniature has (two tailed comet is obvious on the brooch!).

Will I buy him? I dunno... I have a couple of captains already... how many could I possibly need?


Good to know.:) Did you get a look at the rules at all? Any chance you can say if state troops got a point increase/decrease?

This is what I love about the Perry twins, they know their history, so they get poses right:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350558a_99070202001_CaptainEmpire01_873x627.jpg

[Wildeybeast]

Any indication if the price of state troops has gone up? One rumour says they has, which could be a bit of an issue with the book if they aren't buffed somehow. They are overpriced/verging on overpriced now. Spearmen and swordsmen are largely useless compared to halberdiers, too. In the old book, I mean

Have to say I disagree entirely and found swordsmen to be excellent with I and WS4 and 6+ parry save, but each to their own. I think state troopers will struggle with a points increase, though it sounds about right for Cruddace. Glad to hear knights are going down in points, but with demi gryphs on the scene I think my Reiksguard have had it.

Is it just me or does anyone else think the image on the front of WD is much better than the front of new army book? It's the only thing about the empire release that I don't like.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2340061a_60249999388_WhiteDwarfApril2012_873x627. jpg

[Chronowraith]

Eh, I don't mind the cover of the book. Honestly after the horrible VC cover I was expecting much worse.

I concur as far as swordsmen. They are so much more survivable that I've never had them die before earning their points back. Spears just seem as futile on Empire guys as they are on most everything else. I'd either go Swordsmen or Halberdiers.

[Houghten]

Then there's the Tau Devilfish/Hammerhead/Skyray, they're all basically the same, in fact it's a little secret that you can build any of the three out of just the skyray box.
You'll need to acquire a pair of Gun Drones from somewhere to get the full triple out of it...



Is it just me or does anyone else think the image on the front of WD is much better than the front of new army book? It's the only thing about the empire release that I don't like.
It appears to be a rule that all 8th Edition army book covers must be inferior to the previous release.

[Bushido]

You'll need to acquire a pair of Gun Drones from somewhere to get the full triple out of it...

Not true, you can arm a Devilfish with Smart Missiles. In any case gun drones are around $7-$10 for 4 depending on where you live.

I also forgot in addition to the 7 Tanks/IFV's previously mentioned that all share the same basic Rhino Chassis there is also the Baal Predator, the Immolator, the Exorcist, and the Repressor that all also share that same chasis.

[eldargal]

I'm not sure why I said swordsmen actually, I just meant spearmen.:rolleyes: I use halbrdiers, swordsmen and handgunners a lot.

Detachments are looking really nifty and probably justify the points increase in State Troops, detachments get the special rules ofthe main unit (so stubborn for greatswords). So you could have a horde of Greatswords backed by two units of halberdiers or swordsmen for a really nasty offensive bundle.

[Wildeybeast]

That sounds pretty awesome, I think I need some more greatswords!

[eldargal]

I don't, hehe, I loved the plastics so much I've bought like ten boxes.:rolleyes:

You wouldn't believe the whining going on at Warseer at the moment. Actually it's Warseer, so you probavly would believe.
''Boo, state troops are worse than all the other armies core, here are some examples which are all conveniently from OP 7th ed books and cost 50% more than a state troops, boo'

Interestingly enough someoone on Warseer claimed that their local GW said GW stores weren't getting the books in for another couple of days, and our local stores don't have them in either. So it remains an ope nquestion as to whether the one person on the entire internet with access to the book in his store, the source of all these rules rumours, is telling the truth.

[eldargal]

From Warseer:


I have seen the new army book, but was so busy I forgot to mention it... this stuff is true...

Warrior priests still generate dispel dice, same with Arch lectors and the War altar boosts are still good
They dont generate dispel dice anymore, though they can channel both power and dispel dice
Their prayers are improved: 1 that makes the whole unit reroll wounds. 1 that gives the unit 5+ in closecombat, and then we have old soulfire that now gives flaming attacks to the unit and damages models in basecontact with the priest

Griffonbanner same as usual for 60pts
Runefang is still in the book at 85pts
Helm of the ratslayer. fear to everyone, terror to skaven but skavens hate the model wearing it. 15pts
AOMI 1+AS and 6++ for 50points
Steelstandard. ignore -movement from barding and reroll 1's on the charge, flee and pursue
Mace of helstrum 50pts
Van horstmans speculum still there at 40pts
Ring of volans
and the white cloak reworked at 50pts

All state troops except spearmen have gone up 1 points (including crossbows, handgunners and greatswords)
Detachment rule: Detatchments now counts for the same point cost as the parent unit (for example core, special etc.)
They gain the same special rules as the parent unit (stubborn, stupidity etc) and also get the same prayer as the parent unit.

Mortars will be s2(6) big plate and get a 33% point increase aswell. Great cannon gets a 20% point increase. Steam tank now works differently with a steamengine missifirechart. It moves d6 random move per steampoint used up to 5 and causes d6+d3 per steampoint impact hits.

Witchhunters get some sort of "assassin type role in the army.
After deployment you pick a model to "accuse of heresy!" ::heretic:: and then the witchhunter will be extra strong against that model.

Regular knights have gotten a pointdrop by 2pts And there will be mounted reiksguardknights at 27pts. They are like normal inner circle knights but also stubborn.

Engineers can now either pass their BS on to one war engine per turn OR reroll a dice
Griffons are down to 170pts
The stank will have t6 , the stank has +1 AS instead. + the rules are different now
The effectivness of the main cannon and the steam gun is dependant on how many steampoints you spend on it that turn. the steamtank moves d6 random move per steam point (so it could in theory charge 30") and it does d6+d3 per steampoint impacthits
Yes it has a special blowing the boiler missfirechart now
And no, if you use 5 steampoints you would get d6+ 5d3 impacthits

The rules for sacrificing flagellants have been remade so they can get +1t instead of that +1 combat res if i remember it right.
And if you use flagellants against the right unit they can wreak havoc...
Ah right forgot to mention that. There is no unit limit anymore on them :icon_eek:
The hellstorm rocketbattery will fire d3 s3 small templates and fire like a normal stonethrower except allways indirect fire so its not a huge nerf. Could potentialy hit 63 models in 1 shot :icon_question: :icon_twisted:

Helblaster - still BS shooting style though it can use the BS of an engineer.
when the helblaster missfires will on the first missfire roll, shoot half the shots, on the second missfire roll that turn, roll on the blackpowder chart and third roll all barrels roll 10 and the cannon explodes

Sorry if you guys know all this already.
I'm happy for the knights, they needed a boost.
Still a chance these aren't true, though. But they seem reasonable.

Only thing I'm not happy with is the mortar, it needed a nerf/price rise but it got both. Excessively so.

[Chronowraith]

Warrior priests still generate dispel dice, same with Arch lectors and the War altar boosts are still good
They dont generate dispel dice anymore, though they can channel both power and dispel dice

So they do and don't generate dispel dice? I can see it both ways but this contradicts itself. Is he referring to the War Altar? Because I don't remember that generating dispel dice although I've never really used it much.


Their prayers are improved: 1 that makes the whole unit reroll wounds. 1 that gives the unit 5+ in closecombat, and then we have old soulfire that now gives flaming attacks to the unit and damages models in basecontact with the priest

Glad to see they got rid of the unbreakable prayer. I'm surprised they don't have a prayer that makes the unit less likely to run though. I guess they picture the army resilient enough with the new "Hold the Line" ability?


Helm of the ratslayer. fear to everyone, terror to skaven but skavens hate the model wearing it. 15pts
I really wish they'd do away with these "I'm good against a specific race" magic items. I guess at least this one will grant some benefit against non-skaven armies but it's kind of lackluster.


Steelstandard. ignore -movement from barding and reroll 1's on the charge, flee and pursue

Wow, that is amazing. Even more so if it's low-to-mid points.


Van horstmans speculum still there at 40pts

This makes kittens cry... and empire generals cackle with laughter.



All state troops except spearmen have gone up 1 points (including crossbows, handgunners and greatswords)
Detachment rule: Detatchments now counts for the same point cost as the parent unit (for example core, special etc.)
They gain the same special rules as the parent unit (stubborn, stupidity etc) and also get the same prayer as the parent unit.

This is pretty huge. The increase in point cost is nothing really but the section about detachments coming out of the points for the section of the parent unit is pretty big. I assume they do this otherwise people would take their 50% special allotment in greatswords and then fill them out with detachments and be done. Also, prayers extending to the detachment is pretty huge as well.


Mortars will be s2(6) big plate and get a 33% point increase aswell. Great cannon gets a 20% point increase.

It needed it. The point increase is a bit much, probably only needed 20% as well, but S3 pie plate was too devastating given the vast majority of armies out there are T3. I've had entire unts of slaves decimated by a single mortar shot.


Steam tank now works differently with a steamengine missifirechart. It moves d6 random move per steampoint used up to 5 and causes d6+d3 per steampoint impact hits.The stank will have t6 , the stank has +1 AS instead. + the rules are different now. The effectivness of the main cannon and the steam gun is dependant on how many steampoints you spend on it that turn. the steamtank moves d6 random move per steam point (so it could in theory charge 30") and it does d6+d3 per steampoint impacthits

Doesn't it work essentially the same now? I don't use steam tanks but it sounds familiar from when I've faced them in the past. T6 brings it in line with most other "monsters".


Witchhunters get some sort of "assassin type role in the army. After deployment you pick a model to "accuse of heresy!" ::heretic:: and then the witchhunter will be extra strong against that model.

I guessed at this when I saw the stats on GW's website. Imagine him with Van Hostman's Speculum.


Engineers can now either pass their BS on to one war engine per turn OR reroll a dice
Griffons are down to 170pts

All good. Although the griffon is priced too high for my liking. Still reasonable but too much for me to stick him in the average game (I likely wouldn't use him for anything below 3k).


The rules for sacrificing flagellants have been remade so they can get +1t instead of that +1 combat res if i remember it right.
And if you use flagellants against the right unit they can wreak havoc...

Unbreakable plague monks... *Shivers*


What to do... what to do... I must be crazy to start both an Empire (well, re-starting) and a Chaos Dwarf army at the same time...

[Wildeybeast]

IF this is all true, Empire got nerfed and points increases. Oh goody. Sounds about right for Cruddace.

[Cherub]

the state troops got a HUGE buff what are you talking about?

Hold the line.

Any regiment that is required to take a break test with a captain or a general of the empire in the unit rolls 3d6 and takes the lowest 2

that's worth the points increase imo

[Wildeybeast]

That is only of any benefit if you take a captain in the unit, the troopers on their own don't really warrant a points increase. I was also talking more generally and I did preface that last post with a big IF. I'm not going to get too worked up until I've read through the book for myself.

[eldargal]

More rumours:

Ok report on the book now:
Magic items are as i've said about them. steel banner is 35 points

General up with 15pts start with light armour and the hold your ground special rule. No ancient heirlom rule.
Grand master i think was up by 20pts and cannot choose demigryph mount
Archlector down by 25, altar up by 50, only has power lvl 4 banishment as spell now
Wizard down by 10

Captain up by 10 start with same as general
warrior priest down by 25pts same prayers as i said before.
witch hunters will be the same as the old captain price, and the "heresy rule" is that he gains reroll to hit and killingblow against the target. He gives his unit immune to terror ( it only causes fear to the unit) and himselfe is also immune to fear (not the whole unit). He reroll to wound against wizards, undeads and demons.

(core)
All heroes and chars that used to be able to ride pegasi can still do so. pegasi down by 5pts and got some upgrades like +1 stomp or reroll 1's on the charge.

All statetroops are up by 1 point except spearmen. Swordsmen are down to i3.
militia is up by 1 and archers goes down 1pts.
knights ( i correct myselfe here) is down by ONE point. and only 1 unit may be innercircle and ONLY that unit may take a magic banner.

(special)
greatswords are up by1 but can take magic banners
mortars are up by 33% and are s2(6)
great cannons are up by 20%
Flagellants are now a special unit (gets ws3!! :) ) and takes d6 s3 when sacrificing 1 dead= reroll to hit, 2dead = reroll to wound, 4+dead = +1t
Huntsmen are now special choice at same price as old handgunners and archers.
Demigryphs can take either halberds or lances (normal halberds)

(rare)
Helblaster is like before but with new missfire chart: 1 missfire, the rest of the barrels shoot half their number, 2 missfires, roll on blackpowderchart, 3 missfires, 30hits and the machine explodes. Can now use the engineers BS to fire :)
helstorm fires d3 s3 small templates. roll artillery dice + the number of template scatterdices ( allways counted as inderect fire)
Steamtank is now down by 50pts. the steamboiler works like you roll a artydice, if the number is higher than your current wounds or a missfire, roll on the missfirechart. to do this roll a d3 + the number of steampoints you generated.
gets d6 random move per steam point. steamgun now works like a breathweapon in CC aswell as shooting only that it works in CC every turn. The strenght of the steamgun depends on how much steampoints you put on it up to s6.

The light mobile gives a dispeldice, 6++ to all units within 6" and fires a boundspell power 4. s8 flaming magic missile that does d3wounds and pierce ranks like boltthrower. reroll wounds against undeads and demons
The heavens mobile gives +1 to hit in cc and has a boundspell that shoots a template that can do damage or turn the targeted unit towards a random direction.

Detachment rule is as i've mentioned. there was a list of special rules that passed from the parent unit to the detachment. i dont remember all of them

Apparently hte steamtank misfire chart isn't too terrible.

Assuming these rumours are accurate, there is no doubt Empire has been nerfed a bit. However I think it has brought it in line with the other 8th ed books. The only really stupid bit so far is the mortar. I'm still not convinced they are authentic, to be honest. I mean GW stores aren't even supposed to have the book 'til today yet frenka has been posting rumours since the 30th. Somehow one store in Sweden just happened to get a copy days before anywhere else in the world, with one person on the whole internet having access to it? Usually once someone gets access to something a lot of other people do at the same time nd the trickle becomes a flood very quickly. Something feels off about all this, but I may just be paranoid.:rolleyes:

Edit: Oh, another thing that amuses me, every time a new monster is released and some people don't like it, some of those people will say it is clearly Trish Cardens work. Happened with every monster release since SoM and only with some of the SoM monsters were they correct. It happened with the Imperial Griffon just a few days ago, and in WD and on the GW website it names the sculptors and Trish is not one of them.:rolleyes:

[iu_maddog]

http://www.3sdgames.com/iumaddog/?p=636

April 7th for the entirety of the army, instead of a 2 week piece, with another release 2 weeks later.

[Wildeybeast]

More rumours:


Apparently hte steamtank misfire chart isn't too terrible.

Assuming these rumours are accurate, there is no doubt Empire has been nerfed a bit. However I think it has brought it in line with the other 8th ed books. The only really stupid bit so far is the mortar. I'm still not convinced they are authentic, to be honest. I mean GW stores aren't even supposed to have the book 'til today yet frenka has been posting rumours since the 30th. Somehow one store in Sweden just happened to get a copy days before anywhere else in the world, with one person on the whole internet having access to it? Usually once someone gets access to something a lot of other people do at the same time nd the trickle becomes a flood very quickly. Something feels off about all this, but I may just be paranoid.:rolleyes:

Edit: Oh, another thing that amuses me, every time a new monster is released and some people don't like it, some of those people will say it is clearly Trish Cardens work. Happened with every monster release since SoM and only with some of the SoM monsters were they correct. It happened with the Imperial Griffon just a few days ago, and in WD and on the GW website it names the sculptors and Trish is not one of them.:rolleyes:

God, I hope these rumours aren't true. Empire were competitive without being OP, they did not need nerfing and certainly not a points increase on basic troops. TBH, a lot of these rumours don't make sense to me. Swordsmen get and I drop but go up 1 point. At 7 points that puts them at basic HE spearmen level and they are nowhere near that good.

[eldargal]

None of that is new, iu_maddog.


Well, HE core are probably underpriced and Dark Elf core definitely is. The new detachment rules are quite powerful as are the new leadership rules (someone worked out you can get regiments with onl a 2% chance of failing a test or something). 50 halberdiers at the old price plus the new hold the line rule with detachments of swordsmen at the old price wouldbe a bit overpowered in my opinion.

But as I said I'm still not convinced by the rumours, but if they are true I think it will take re-adjustment but it won't be too bad in the long run, when compared with 8th edition books. The trouble is some of the 7th ed books are stupidly overpowered still. Which is probably why WoC, DE and HE are all on the rumour agenda for the next 2 years or so. And Dwarfs.

[eldargal]

Ok someone else has a book and is confirming what frenka said but is adding to it as well, people seem to be cheering up slightly bar one or two determined moaners.

I think the book is good by 8th edition standards, not compared to some of the OP 7th ed army books (HE, DE, WoC, DoC). Still think mortars were overly nerfed, flaggelants seem similarly reduced in effectiveness.


KNIGHTS
knights: option to replace lance &shield with great weapon


GRAND MASTER
no demigryph, master of battle: give itp to the unit he is in (knightly order or demigryph, remember only barded warhorse)


DETACHMENTS
detachment is quite long but let's say that you give to the detach: hatred, frenzy, hold the line, itp, stubborn, steadfast, stupidity if the parent unit has that ability & within 3

yes yes, counter charge & support fire


STEAM TANK
steam tank misfire chart: (hahahaha)
1-4 roll a d3:
=1-2 no sp on engine this turn
=3-4 no sp on steam gun this turn
=5-6 no sp this turn

5: -d3 sp

6:-d6 sp + st & any unit in base contact 2d6 strenght 2 hits
7: roll d3: +that roll of sp, that roll= wounds sto the st
8: st goes boom & all units within 6 suffer 2d6 str 4 hits



MARKUS WULFHART/HUNSTMEN
he is a standard cap (profile)
with
hatred (monsters) itp, scouts
reroll to hit (shooting) monster, no randomize on ridden monsters, you chose
upgrade one unit of huntsmen to wulfhart's hunter: itp, monster hunters

amber bow:wounds monster on 4+ d3 wounds

ahah my fault, actualy is the "reroll to hit monsters" & no randomization


GRIFFON
double head: chomp attack with +1 to hit large target
blood roar: fear & terror test with 3d6 discarding the lowest

no protection........


FLAGELLANTS
yes, they cost more, the martyrdom bonuses lasts only for the current phase...
table: 1 reroll to hit
2-3: reroll to hit & to wound
4+: +1 toughness & as 2-3


KARL/KURT
I don't have the old book here, so I dunno :P , kurt is 20 bananas over 300 nights & karl franz is jus 20 umbrella (on foot) over kurt


ARCH LECTOR/WARRIOR PRIESTS
hatred to the unit (not char thou)
battle prayers:
power level 3
if the prayer is succesfully cast on a regimental unit, any of its detach within 3 gains the effects

hammer of sig: reroll to wound

shield of blabla: 5+ word save (only in cc)

soulfire: flaming attacks + str 4 hits to any model in btb contact, undeads & demons str 5 , no armor saves

archlector same as warrior priest but +1 w & ld, & the war altar option


OUTRIDERS
outriders: 42 nuclear bombs halved, bs 4, 3 shots; champion can exchange the rep hundgun with: rep pistol or grenade launcher (no sniper rifle)

yes for fc & barding
340 chips for 4 people, for runefang that works as the old one[

MAGIC ITEMS
no griffon banner w/o bsb
speculum: you must swap s,t,i,a in challenges

MISC
no full command on everything, full plate to cap & general (master wears it as standard)

Moar:

mortar +33% points, str 2, black powder misfire chart, LARGE template, armor piercing, str 6 on center, d3 wounds

captains: +10 bananas
gote: +15 fruits

[eldargal]

GW just put a video up (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=2200092-gws) with Cruddace talking about the Empire release.

So, I think if you had a flagellant and mortar heavy 7th ed competitive list you may be feeling rather upset.

[Cherub]

you could see that something was going to happen to mortars. they were just too good with engineers nearby and the 8th rules for templates. though i would have rather seen a larger points increase then the s2.

[eldargal]

Yup, and given that many of the remaining OP armies are T3 mortars could still be seen. Perhaps not in tournaments but who gives a damn about that. Against Skaven and Elves perhaps they may be worthwhile. Not convinced yet, but it is possible. Still ridiculous to up the price so much and drop to S2. My games club is thinking of houseruling them back to the old poitns value.

[Wildeybeast]

GW just put a video up (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=2200092-gws) with Cruddace talking about the Empire release.

So, I think if you had a flagellant and mortar heavy 7th ed competitive list you may be feeling rather upset.

Looks like my mortars and flagellants are going ebay then.:(

Well, that video was....uniformative. Would be nice to see him actually discussing some of the changes in game terms. And now I come to think about it, WD was distinctly lacking on that front. No interviews about designing the new models, no interview with Cruddace about rules changes/new rules and no bat rep to show how they performed, just some fluff lifted from the army book.

[eldargal]

You could always houserule mortars and flagellants or use them as counts-as. My group is debating whether or not to houserule the prices down on both next tuesday after we get a good look at the book. Or as I said, count mortars as cannon. Or helblasters or whatever suits you.

It's a shame it had to come to it, but given the SoB and Tyranid codices it could have been much worse. Empire is now on a level with the other 8th ed books instead of having certain incredibly OP builds and half the entries useless.

The problem I have with Cruddace, apart from his past of internal balance issues (which don't seem to be AS severe as previous efforts) is that by screwing up a few choices (mortars, flagellants) he tends to inadvertently restrict the number of really viable, fun lists. Not many people will be running relligious nutjob armies now, which is a shame as they were fluffy. Unfortunately under the old book they were extremely OP so they had it coming. I just feel that any of the other authors would have re-balanced teh book far more evenly.

[Wildeybeast]

I concur entirely. I'm going to play a few games with it and see how it handles before house ruling anything. I like your idea of counts as cannons, my halfing hot pot was already a counts as mortars and now they are in FC I may have to pick up another one!

[eldargal]

Also from a realism perspective mortars were for shelling fortifications, untikl the 19th century they were too slow to load, aim and fire to be used against anything but stationary positions. Never really felt comfortable including them in my army on that basis (I would only ever take one).

I tended to rely on magic to combat large units (like Skaven).

[eldargal]

Regarding flagellants, the Bearded One over on Warseer has made a convincing re-habilitation of them under the new rules as a fantastic hammer unit.


Flaggelants kill virtually anything, actually, as they do such obscene damage in the first round. Against a unit of 40 skavenslaves 5 wide, a flaghorde does 23 wounds in the first round, bringing the slaves down to 17 models, which, if the flaggelants still have 25 out of 40 models left, is not enough to be steadfast. If you keep your flaggelants near a hurricanium the +1 to hit bonus can bring that number up even further and make them more reliable. By contrast a horde of greatswords would kill about 12 slaves, which means it'd take it a significantly longer time.

There are few units a horde of flaggelants is going to lose the first round of combat from, and that first round is often all that it takes to break the opponent's back. Send the flaggelants straight at the most imposing enemy unit and either destroy or at least decimate it. Enemy has 40 templeguard? the flaggelants kill 22 of them in the first round. Irongutstar? The flaggelants kill 9 of them in the first round. Slavebus? 23 (so a loss of 5 ranks) in the first round. Hammererhorde? 26. horde of white lions, an unfavourable matchup due to ASF, they lose 22 before striking, sacrifice 2, and still kill 19 in return.

But whatever, take your 1-attack str5 attack every round. I'll take frenzied str5 with reroll to hit & wound for 1 round, which will suffice. Because they're a special choice and actually not really shockingly expensive, you could take that beloved greatsword horde, a flaggelant horde, and 2 small support units of 6'ish wide tucked somewhere in gaps of your battleline.

Flaggelants can't be detachments, can they?


If I see slaves it's either 40 or 50, but without any equipment of any kind. Even so, frenzied spearslaves do only 5 wounds total.

I added some examples to my post: " Enemy has 40 templeguard? the flaggelants kill 22 of them in the first round. Irongutstar? The flaggelants kill 9 of them in the first round. Slavebus? 23 (so a loss of 5 ranks) in the first round. Hammererhorde? 26. horde of white lions, an unfavourable matchup due to ASF, they lose 22 before striking, sacrifice 2, and still kill 19 in return. "

If the enemy isn't stubborn or unbreakable, such burst damage is often impossible to survive without breaking. Empire doesn't really have any comparable units capable of destruction on such a large scale with such high numbers. Halbediers and other statetroops certainly don't, neither do knights, a demigryph horde maybe. Greatswords come somewhere near but lack the numer of attacks and rerolls. 30 str5 attacks comes nowhere near 40 str5 attacks with reroll to hit and wound, as the math shows. Against a ws4 t3 enemy greatswords do 12.5 wounds. flaggelants 29. 29!! That's 232% of what the greatswords do! Where I see greatswords edge out over flaggelants is against massed str3 (witch elves, corsairs, spear elves etc.) and a prolonged combat where the enemy can survive with enough strength to the next round, although as the math against the skavenslaves showns the burstdamage is often enough to determine the combat from the getgo.

Plus the models are nice, and a significantly better buy economically than goldswords (in euro's the greatswords cost 32.50 and the flaggelants 22.75)


Mhmm.. all this talk of flaggelants makes me wanna start an empire army.. how about some kind of crusading army, or reiksguard army of knights, griffons and demigryps, joined up by flaggelants that keep annoying them, repeatedly yelling 'the pudding is coming! repent!'

This really leaves only the mortar as the major nerf of the book, with militia left useless and engineers on the borderline.

[Wildeybeast]

TBH I always found militia fairly useless before, though slightly less so than spearmen.

[eldargal]

Agreed. Incidentally the opinion on Warseer is changing more to the positive now that more details are coming out.:rolleyes: Except for a couple of determined moaners. Even the mortar is being re-considered as still having a use against T3 armies, two of which at least are considered top tier (DE & Skaven). Even Engineers while not ideal of babysitting cannon batteries could still prove useful for helstorm/helblasters.

[Wildeybeast]

The mortar will still have a use, no doubt, but when it's wounding on 5's there are probably better investments for your points. Still, I'm looking forawrd to getting all my shiny new stuff tomorrow, can't wait to have sexy sexy KF mush some skulls.

[Chronowraith]

FYI - I have my copy of the book if anyone needs clarifications ( I won't give even abstract point values). I'll check back every so often and answer what I can... for now.. I'm off to read the book myself.

[Chronowraith]

So I've had some time to peruse the book and here are some quick opinions

Likes
Plenty of Unit Choices
Demigryph Knights
Luminarch/Hurricanium
New detatchment rules

Dislikes
No Demigryph character mounts
Only Big Hitter in Rare slot is steam tank (no War Wagon, no griffon monster, etc
Can't have a unit push the war altar

I really don't see the point increases hurting the book. The first list I made (2500 points) I actually came up short after including everything I initially wrote down. My second and third lists I had to trim down, but the most I ran over was roughly 100 points.

People are reacting to the strength of the mortar being decreased. I've tried a couple test games and against T3 opponents it's still horribly devastating.

Steadfast carries over to detatchments. So as long as the parent unit is steadfast, so are the detatchments. A host of other abilities carry over as well (Stubborn, Frenzy, Hatred, hold the Line, ItP, and stupidity as well)

I'm perplexed at the Witch hunter... he seems like an assassin type character but one that is likely unable to assassinate anything other than mages (and even that depends on the mage in question).

I'm crying at the fact that warrior priests don't automatically generate dispel dice anymore (they have to channel them). I felt it was unique that empire could play a strong list without any casters before thanks to warrior priests. At least they went down in points (if I recall correctly).

Steel Standard + Demigryph Knights is pretty awesome. The demigryphs are barded and rerolling 1s on charge/pursue is pretty sweet.

Markus Wolfhart is a fantastic monster hunter. He extends his monster hunter rule to any unit he joins (reroll failed to Hit rolls against monsters) and the unit gains ItP. His bow is only S3 but against monsters never needs more than a 4+ to wound and has d3 Multiple Wounds. Pretty good considering he is BS5. Stick him with some scouts and you are golden. Now if only he had flaming attacks :P

[eldargal]

The Witch Hunter is supposed to get bonuses against undead an chaosy types, isn't he? People were saying on Warseer that he could really put VC and Chaos combat armies off their game by doing a lot of no good to combat vampries and chaos lords and whatnot.

[Chronowraith]

Correct... sort of. He gets to reroll failed to-wound rolls against models with the "Undead", "Nehekharan Undead", or "Daemonic" special rules. So general chaos is not in there. He seems... situational at best. I could see him using Van Horstmann's Speculum and causing some general mayhem but he isn't very survivable (light armor only and no chance of upgrading that except through his magic item allotment).

EDIT: against his quarry he can be a beast since he rerolls failed to-hit and gains killing blow, and sniper. However, he's only a hero with a base two attacks.

[eldargal]

Still, against a combat vampire lord he could be devestating especially if you give him a 4+ ward item or something that lets him strike first. I agree much more of a fluffy themed choice than competitive one.

That reminds me, can flagellants be selected as a detachment choice? Someone mentioned they could so thus count towards core. If so you could make a very Sigmarite themed army indeed. State troops with flagellant detachments, big unit if flagellants, War Altar, Witch Hunters and lots of Warrior Priests.

[Chronowraith]

That's precisely the problem of the witch hunter. Mediocre stats kill him. A vampire lord would go before him and tear him apart. Sad that such a cool model will rarely be seen on the tabletop.


can flagellants be selected as a detachment choice

Not that I can see. They do not possess the detachment special rule. I double checked to make sure that warrior-priests or Volkmar didn't make them core or add the detachment rule to them and as far as I can tell.. it does not.

So definitely no flagellants in core spots.

Overall I still think the crazy madmen are worth it. They can't be core but are specials and saw a WS increase (and a point increase) but are still unbreakable and can still martyr themselves. Although martyrdom isn't a guaranteed occurrence either. you have to roll a d6 for the number of attempted martyrs and then roll to wound (S3 hit)... Not sure I understand the reasoning there...

[Skeith154]

i suppose throwing your self on your enemies swords might confuse them to the point they actually try to avoid killing you? i guess?

[Cherub]

all that matters is that they are no longer 10-30 :) I am so looking forward to a good sized unit of them again