Protectorate of Menoth - Black Widows Theme Army List

[Elfy]

Protectorate of Menoth - Black Widows

Some of my friends have convinced me to start playing Warmachine. After looking over the models, and taking into account what the others are playing, I’ve decided to go with Protectorate of Menoth. After looking over the available forces, I’m looking to go with a Thyra Black Widows theme force. Here’s what I’m thinking as far as an army list from 15 points to 35 points. How does it look to you Protectorate of Menoth players on here?

15 points [Theme Tier 3]

Thyra, Flame of Sorrow
>Dervish
>Dervish
Daughters of the Flame
Daughters of the Flame
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance


20 points [Theme Tier 4]

Thyra, Flame of Sorrow
>Dervish
>Blood of Martyrs
Daughters of the Flame
Daughters of the Flame
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance


24 points [Theme Tier 4]

Thyra, Flame of Sorrow
>Dervish
>Dervish
>Blood of Martyrs
Daughters of the Flame
Daughters of the Flame
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance


30 points [Theme Tier 4]

Thyra, Flame of Sorrow
>Dervish
>Dervish
>Dervish
>Blood of Martyrs
Daughters of the Flame
Daughters of the Flame
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance
Choir of Menoth (Minimum)

35 points [Theme Tier 4]

Thyra, Flame of Sorrow
>Dervish
>Dervish
>Dervish
>Blood of Martyrs
Daughters of the Flame
Daughters of the Flame
Daughters of the Flame
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance
Choir of Menoth (Minimum)

Theme Tier 3: the force has unlimited Daughters of the Flame, one Warjack per DotF can make an Advance after deployment but before turn 1, the entire force enjoys Stealth on turn 1

Theme Tier 4: As above and each Warjack in Thyra's battlegroup automatically receives 1 free Focus on the first turn.

[Elfy]

So, does it look okay? Does anyone have an suggestions on how to make it better? Are there too many Warjacks in Thyra's battlegroup. How many is a good amount of warjacks for Thyra? How many Focus Points should she generally keep for herself. Any suggestions for tactics when using this theme force?

[Mdw005]

Even in themed lists, if at all possible, you want to diversify as much as possible. You have too much Dervish. Devouts would help her out immensely, and while I don't have the book in front of me, I am sure you can take one of those. Depending on what you are doing with her, a Revenger isn't bad either.

The big problem is that you don't have anything to help her be focus efficient (Wracks, Reclaimer, Heirophant, Vassal etc.) Again, I don't have the books in front of me, but I would wager that the fewer jacks she has, the better off she will be surviving since she can play with her own focus instead of dishing it out.

You have a very fast army, and those jacks are going to be lagging behind without that focus, which sucks because Thyra needs every last drop she can find, and, as stated earlier, you have no focus relief to assist her in that. You might be better off with Blood of Martyrs and a Devout, and scrapping the Dervishes altogether. (Assuming you can). I know that you have the tier benefits, but unless you are rushing all your warjacks forwards every turn, you aren't taking full advantage of that. It is neigh impossible for Thyra to run four jacks by herself with no outside help, and still upkeep and cast appropriately. She basically, due to the lack of assistance, works against her own theme.

Not only that, but if you have all this speed from your theme, then how is your Choir supposed to keep up? If you go the heavy jack route, I would recommend that you pitch the Choir altogether. They aren't keeping up unless they run, and if they run, they aren't helping you.

-MW-

[Elfy]

The theme benefits only help out at the beginning, but they allow the Warjacks to move forward quickly out of the gate to get a head start over the rest of the force and give the entire force Stealth on turn 1 to help it against ranged attacks while it closes the gap to the enemy line.

Unfortunately, a Thyra theme list can only choose from the following few models:

Lights: Dervish, Devout, Redeemer, Repenter, Revenger, Vigilant
Heavys: Blood of Martyrs, Castigator, Reckoner, Sanctifier*
Units: Choir of Menoth, Daughters of the Flame, Flame Bringers*
Solos: Nicia Tear of Vengeance

(* Sadly, the Sanctifier isn't out yet and there is nothing on the Flame Bringers).

I was wondering if I had too many warjacks, but Thyra only has three choices outside of warjacks to choose from. I'm sure she can handle controlling the two warjacks in the 15 and 20 point lists, but I wasn't sure about the third warjack in the 25 point list and I was worried that the forth warjack in the 30 and 35 point lists was too much for her.

In the 25 point list, I could replace a Dervish for a Devout, Repenter, Vigilant for diversity, but that would still leave her controlling 3 warjacks, or I could choose another Daughters of the Flame in its place. Not sure what to do for the 30 and 35 point lists.

[Mdw005]

Well, here in lies the problem with a majority of Theme Forces, they are not very competitive. Unfortunately, here is the situation you have. You are pigeonholed into a select few models, and the benefit is very moderate considering the options you have to give up. If you are trying to be as competitive as you can, I would recommend diversifying your jacks as best as possible.

Your best heavies are Blood of Martyrs and Reckoners.
Your Lights vary, but I would suspect that light jacks with ranged options, like Redeemers would be helpful, as would Devouts and Vigilants to keep Thyra safe. The Revenger is a good option if you want to try throwing Pursuit around.

I think having at least Blood of Martyrs is necessary, and a Reckoner may not hurt. You need SOMETHING to crack heavy armor, and those Menoth lights are probably not going to do it.

-MW-

[thebarbalag]

This is a really rough theme list. Without whatever Flamebringers are, your options are very limited. Once the Sanctifier is out, I think this theme could get much more powerful. Reckoners are amazing, but want focus, and Thyra does not want to give out focus. Having the Sanctifier along with BoM (a must have IMO) really reduces the focus distribution, as both can benefit from every dying Daughter or Choir.

That said, though the benefits of the theme are nice, I like Thyra with Wracks, a Reclaimer, a Hierophant and TFG (very rare not to bring TFG).

Maybe Flamebringers will alter the equation, but this theme is only for fun in my book. (Which is fine by me, really, I probably play 5 for fun games for every on competitive game I play...though I play a lot of games.)

[Elfy]

Well, the thing is that a 35 point theme tournament is coming up in a few weeks and I was thinking about participating in it. All forces have to be at least tier 1 theme forces. So everyone will be in a similar situation where they have limited choices of models to put with their preferred Warcaster/Warlock. Although I've not played a single game of WM/H yet (I hope to start getting some games in this week), Thyra is the caster I want to build around. Since apparently the Sanctifier and Flame Bringers won't be out in time, I cannot use them in my list.

Focusing on the 35 point version, here's what I've got:

Black Widows (33 Points)
Thyra, Flame of Sorrow
>Blood of Martyrs
>Devout
>Dervish
Max Choir of Menoth
3x Daughters of the Flame
Nicia, Tear of Vengeance

With only 3 Warjacks, I don't really need a second Choir of Menoth to fill those last two points and it seems better to me to go in 2 points under than to take out the Choir of Menoth and replace them with a fourth Daughters of the Flame or Warjack.

[under]

You're new, Theme forces are the absolute worst thing to start playing with. The. Absolute. Worst.

If you must, because you want to enter the tournement then stick to Teir One at 15, and not care about Teir 4 untill 50 points.

That second, third, and fourth unit of Daughters are really only ever going to be played with this one Caster, Thyra and that's the second reason Theme forces are terrible for new players, just plain aweful.

I'd actually recomend you speak with the TO and ask, that as a new player you be allowed to proxy different unit as a second Daughters unit or for you to find some one you can borrow it from for the day.

Theme tournements are a lot of fun, but they are really terrible to brand new players because of the model restrictions.

My other advice would be to play a Caster with less model restrictions at Tier One.