Devastator squads?

[UltraBlood]

Ok I have seen some battle reports lately with 10 man devastator squads in them but the consensus is to only take 5 from everyone I ask.

Is it worth the extra points to have the extra wounds or would it be worth it to take a 10 man squad and combat squad it and use the extra 5 guys to assault units that came close to allow the heavy weapons to fire that much longer?

[Garamond]

the 5 extra guys are worth it. i hate losing a heavy weapon on the first turn and those 5 really help.

[Brother Cruorem]

I usually only have 5 man Dev squads to spend the points on something better. However, if you really want the 10 man I would combat squad them. This way you can put the bolter guys in the front to prevent the heavy weapons from getting assaulted first and it gives them a cover save against shooting.

[Calgar33]

I generally use a 10 man squad with all lascannons and missile launchers and keep them together to add some serious fire power in one area but I am currently using a squad with heavy bolters and lascannons and combat squads.

[AbusePuppy]

Ten man squads are rarely worth it because you'd rather have more squads with more guns than extra bodies in an existing squad. Two squads of five Devs with Missiles is more threatening than one squad of ten Devs with Missiles.

There are sometimes cases where you want the full ten- for example, BA in large games can use up all its HS slots and thus want to be able to split fire via a ten-man Dev squad, but this is generally a rare occurrence.

If you're positioning your fire support units properly and presenting enough threats to the enemy, you shouldn't need to worry about losing guys straight away against many armies. 3+ armor and 4+ cover are enough to protect you- sinking another hundred points for ablative bodies are not a good use of resources.

(Oh, and since a lot of people also do this as well: don't buy mixed weapon loadouts. Even for SW, they never really work out.)

[SonicPara]

If I have the extra points and HS slot I take a 5-man unit with 2 missile launchers. It comes in at 120 points, has ablative wounds in the two bolter marines and the sergeant, and still is the cheapest way to bring 2 infantry missile launchers into a Codes: Space Marines list.

If you do the full 10-man unit I recommend doing 2 missiles and 2 plasma cannons and using the Combat Squad rule to have two 5-man units (2 missiles, sergeant, 2 bolters in one and then the 2 plasma cannons, 3 bolters in the other. Plasma cannons don't need the signum). Missiles instead of Lascannons as Lascannons are more cost-effective in Tac Squads (25 point discount compared to Devs while the missile is only a 15 point discount in the Tac Squad) and Plasma Cannons for the AP2 templates.

[Wolfshade]

The extra bodies are always useful for soaking up wounds.
You can also do some quite cunning things with the combat squadding options.
Putting all the heavies in one squad, tehn having another 5 man squad adevancing like normal marines (though remember they can't hold objectives, but can contest) Splitting 2 heavies per squad, while this doesn't give the same rate of heavy fire, it does enable you to split the squads firing and if you had half with anti-tank weaponry and half with anti-infantry then the non specialised shots aren't wasted. You could potentially split the heaves 1-3, if the 1 had a signifcantly shorter range than the other 3 this enables the lone heavy + squad to be further forward and in range of targets that perhaps would be not in range if they were all together
I usually keep all of them together as I know that my devastators will be subjected to deep striking squads coming in behind the battle line, so that gives me 5 rapid firing bolters a chance to thin the ranks down

[jb50c]

I think it depends on your style of play, but IMHO a 10 man squad is a waste. It's expensive and can't hold objectives. Devs/Long Fangs should be about massed fire at range. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only heavy weapon you could possbly make at the same rage as bolters is the multi-melta and why on earth would you ever mix that fire. If you want to mix bolter fire with a heavy, do it with a tac squad.

5 man w/4 missiles = 150
5 man w/5 lascannons = 230

10 man w/4 missiles = 230
10 man w/4 lascannons = 310

So I could have 8 missiles in 2 squads (w/2 signums) for 70 points more than a 10 man w/4 missiles.

[herigonz]

I think in a bigger game where you are using a lot of your heavy support, having a 10 man squad makes sense...

...so long as it isn't a Kill Points battle. Then in general, I tend to oppose combat squadding. The extra ablative wounds can be helpful, especially to help keep them in cover (you put the bolter marines behind the building/in terrain giving you clear line of sight).

[Nykster]

To me it depends on how important that unit of regrets toes are to your game plan. If they are a vital part of your army list, and you only have one unit of them, I would suggest to get the extra guys. It does suck up a hunk of points, but I helps with morale also. I hate I when my heavy weapon squads fall back after losing 2 models.

[Paul]

Also, as mentioned above, it can help immensely with getting lanes of fire and still cover.

Put the Sergeant and five Bolters into cover, then string out the heavy weapons into open terrain with wide fields of fire.

You'll be getting a cover save AND you'll be able to shoot well with the heavy weapons.

Add a Techmarine and that save becomes a 3+ if it is a ruin.

[Xyon]

I like the flexibility of 10 man dev squad, but like has been said it depends on your situation.

3 5 man dev squads is the most efficient use of your points, so it could be good for tournaments, but if you're not building a tournament army then you dont need to worry about that as much.

With 10 man squads you can have 1 big squad, or 2 combat squads, people dont usually mix heavy weapons, but with the current combat squad option it becomes a bit more viable.

You could have 2 missiles and 2 of any other weapon, and split so you have 2 weapons in each combat squad, throw in a rhino for the squad and one combat squad can pillbox while maybe the other is deployed in cover, or toss in a razorback to add more firepower.

Or have all 4 weapons in 1 combat squad, the other 5 marines deployed in front of the dev squad to give cover save, or put into a rhino or razorback to give some extra mobile rapid-fire bolter rounds where needed.

Heck you could take a 10 man dev squad, power fist the sgt, rhino, and take zero heavy weapons.

I guess just have fun with it, its a game after all.

[codiddy]

I always use 10, but that's because my regular opponents are so worried about them and their missile salvos that they take a lot of fire. In that case the extra 80 points is worth it because you have to throw A LOT of shots at them before you reduce their effectiveness.

[UltraBlood]

Thanks for the advice on the question everyone. I guess I will just need to try it out in some games going forward to see what would work best for me. I got some very good pointers that I wasn't even considering such as the extra 5 guys allowing me to extend cover to the heavy weapons while potentially opening up some fire lanes.

[Grenadier]

When I field my Black Templars as vanilla marines I'll often assemble two Devastator squads. I personally find the best combination of weapons is two plasma cannons and two lascannons. Pricy but it means you'll mangle troops and tanks a like.

But I never field a full 10 man squad. Sure, you can preserve your heavy weapons better this way. But I think it is wasteful. First of all, if you deploy your Devastators well and support them with other units they shouldn't have to worry about a lot of threats. Especially being assaulted. Secondly, those points spent on 5 more guys could be better spent elsewhere I think. Sure, 5 men for a single squad isn't a big deal, but if you run more than one squad you're looking at 10 or 15 more marines. For that you could field some other unit. The best thing to do with a Devastator squad is give them a Razorback for additional firepower and deploy them in the rear in cover. Slap a scout squad somewhere nearby to run interference for them. And if all else fails retreat them into the Razorback and redeploy.

[mysterex]

Ten man squads are rarely worth it

I'd argue that even 5 man squads are rarely worth it with the Space Marine and Dark Angel Codecii.

All missile launcher 5 man units work out better with Blood Angels but then they don't really fit with their "fast moving" theme.

I use missile launcher & heavy bolter equipped land speeders instead because of their mobility.

[UltraBlood]

I use missile launcher & heavy bolter equipped land speeders instead because of their mobility.

I have not had any luck keeping land speeders alive long enough to do much. Do you just hide them in the back in cover?

[bubblehearthz]

I have to be honest, I usually only take 5 man dev squads because in the 5 man form, you are getting tremendous value for your points. When you upgrade to 10 man squads, it just seems to me like those points could have gone somewhere else, like towards a 5 man tac squad, which would give you an extra scoring unit!

[Ravenger]

Even though you can take more missile with two units of devastators, what about if you dont have the extra force org slots to use, this way you can split fire by putting two 5 man units with 2 missile launchers each to fire on separate targets.

[mysterex]

I have not had any luck keeping land speeders alive long enough to do much. Do you just hide them in the back in cover?

No so much in the back but definitely at least partially behind cover and at least 24" away from most things. We tend to play with a lot of multi-level building ruins which makes it easier. I try to position them at the sides of the table if possible so that I'm out of range from the opponents heavy weapons but so that the middle of the table is within my range.

I also use them in single vehicle units which makes them easier to hide but can also make giving up kill points easier.

The great thing is that the can move a relatively long distance to get angles on the target or take advantage over cover and yet still shoot.

I always use the heavy bolter/missile launcher combo now because shorter ranged weapons used to put them too close to the action and therefore easily shot down.

However if you play on terrain that looks like a golf course, then yes, they die easily.

[UltraBlood]

No so much in the back but definitely at least partially behind cover and at least 24" away from most things. We tend to play with a lot of multi-level building ruins which makes it easier. I try to position them at the sides of the table if possible so that I'm out of range from the opponents heavy weapons but so that the middle of the table is within my range.

I also use them in single vehicle units which makes them easier to hide but can also make giving up kill points easier.

The great thing is that the can move a relatively long distance to get angles on the target or take advantage over cover and yet still shoot.

I always use the heavy bolter/missile launcher combo now because shorter ranged weapons used to put them too close to the action and therefore easily shot down.

However if you play on terrain that looks like a golf course, then yes, they die easily.

That makes a lot of sense and I think my major issue is the last line of your response. I will have to work on getting some more terrain for the games I play in.

[Root]

I don't use Devastators because 1/3 of the time Dawn of War B Rapes them. But if I did want to use them my vote would be 10 man squad split up 2 weapons in each combat squad. Its not cheap but with a few more Tactical combat squads hanging around its a lot of hard to remove (yet critically static) firepower.

[pathwinder14]

10 man squads offer padding whne you start getting shot at. I usually run mine in 1 of 2 ways. Either I run a 10 man squad combat squadded into 2 equal units with 2 ML in each squad or I run 8 devs in a single unit wiht 4 ML and start removing bolter armed models when the unit gets shot at.

[SeraphimAngels]

I always go 5 man squad of devastators, remember you get to kit out your tac squads with a heavy weapon if you want. If you're running with 3 tac squads you can 3 of a weapon or kit it out different. I like going with Multi melta, Plasma cannon, Plasma cannon for my tac squads and 2 Las cannons in my devastator squad. Your opponent has to decide whats more dangerous, if a plasma cannons goes off it hits side armor and most side armors are 10-12? not bad depending on rolls.

[bobdole4]

I stick to 5 man squads. I'd rather use those points for more than just wounds.

[Serk]

5 man squads here as well, equipped with 4 ML.
Just make sure you have a good position with them (cover save and maybe an angle which keeps them out of line of sight of potential threats for a while).

[St.Germaine]

I used to be a huge fan of the 5 man squad with 4 ML but I've recently had a slight change of heart and now always go with a 5 man squad with 3 ML and 1 LC when I take Devs. I really like the flexibility of MLs but I recently realized that the Dev Sgt has an auspex and with the current rules this confers +1 BS for one model if the Sgt doesn't shoot. Let's see shoot my bolter or have a LC shot at 2+ to hit. Hmmm?