Space Wolves Diappointment

[ork mage]

Anyone else as disappointed with the death of the 13th company as I am.
Looking through the new codex I am horrified to see that they are gone.
Not only are they gone, but there is no mention of them anywhere that I have seen. Equally the whole wolfen thing has been whitewashed.
I can't believe that even GW would totally ignore a huge part of the background story of the Wolves in such a fashion. I had really hoped that after the last Blackmane novel in which they named some of the 13th characters that they would incorporate them into the new release in a similar fashion to the way they used Gutsmek to keep speedfreaks as a viable build.

The codex itself gives some really powerful stuff which I am sure will appeal to the basic Wolves player but I am unconvinced that I will be able to salvage anything from the new book that will allow me to enjoy playing my Wolves anywhere near as much as I did the 13th, which I would find totally unsatisfyng.

[crazyredpraetorian]

Anyone else as disappointed with the death of the 13th company as I am.
Looking through the new codex I am horrified to see that they are gone.
Not only are they gone, but there is no mention of them anywhere that I have seen. Equally the whole wolfen thing has been whitewashed.
I can't believe that even GW would totally ignore a huge part of the background story of the Wolves in such a fashion. I had really hoped that after the last Blackmane novel in which they named some of the 13th characters that they would incorporate them into the new release in a similar fashion to the way they used Gutsmek to keep speedfreaks as a viable build.

The codex itself gives some really powerful stuff which I am sure will appeal to the basic Wolves player but I am unconvinced that I will be able to salvage anything from the new book that will allow me to enjoy playing my Wolves anywhere near as much as I did the 13th, which I would find totally unsatisfyng.

The 13th were not part of the last SW codex. So, I really didn't expext them to be in the new codex. GW has been streamlining their products(ie:Chaos codex). So, I kind of expected this to happen.

[Chumbalaya]

The 13th did get a mention, something along the lines of them vanishing as mysteriously as they appeared after the 13th Black Crusade.

Lame, I know, but that's how it went down.

The only thing 13th company armies lost were Wulfen squads and Gate. You can give Mark of the Wolfen (replace attacks with D6+ 1 rending attacks) model in GH and WG units, as well as your Wolf Lord, WGBL, and Lone Wolves. You still get Fenrisian Wolves, Grey Hunters get ultragrit like Grey Slayers (IIRC, played the army like once), and everything else.

You can also toss in Thunderwolves are a giant werewolf dude or whatever.

The playstyle may have changed, but most of your models and still usable, unless you had a crap ton of Wulfen. I know counts-as sucks when your army is invalidated, but it isn't nearly as bad with the new book.

[Bjorn the fell-handed]

Anyone else as disappointed with the death of the 13th company as I am.
Looking through the new codex I am horrified to see that they are gone.
Not only are they gone, but there is no mention of them anywhere that I have seen. Equally the whole wolfen thing has been whitewashed.
I can't believe that even GW would totally ignore a huge part of the background story of the Wolves in such a fashion. I had really hoped that after the last Blackmane novel in which they named some of the 13th characters that they would incorporate them into the new release in a similar fashion to the way they used Gutsmek to keep speedfreaks as a viable build.

The codex itself gives some really powerful stuff which I am sure will appeal to the basic Wolves player but I am unconvinced that I will be able to salvage anything from the new book that will allow me to enjoy playing my Wolves anywhere near as much as I did the 13th, which I would find totally unsatisfyng.

First, as has been said,the 13th was sub list to C:SW, and so I think the majority of people didnt expect it to get a huge amount of space. but its hardly impossible to do a 13th list.

You can still give your lord things like the saga of the bear/warrior born, which would embody a mighty lord, mark of the wulfen and any number of things. Rune Priests, while getting a nerf in combat stats get some cool potent shamaistic powers that would work for a 13th player (though why the gate isnt one of them confused even me *eyeroll( ) WGBL's could be warband leaders under th elord, as per their fluff, and Wolf Priests again, can be customised, as per RP's. With regards to wargear, well, WTT got an improvement to 5+ and the rune priests staffs make negating psychic powers easier, which is appropriate considering th e13ths mission to hunt down the thousand sons.

For troops, well, you can use Grey Hunters, who get their free special weapon at 10 man strong, as well they get BP/Bolter/CCW, which means they get the same number of basic attacks as a 13th company (2 all the time). BC's... well, give them a miss and just use GH's for assault troops. Ok, you can't take whole packs of Wulfen,but you can still include them in each pack. Not all of the 13th have yet succumbed to the Curse of the Wulfen, and it could symbolise the steady decline of each unit to the curse. Wolves don't mass succumb barring extreme (very extreme ) circumstances

You can still field packs of Fenrisian Wolves as Fast Attack, and so provide yourself with more bodies for attrition to take. If you want to remain true to the 13th spirit, restrict yourself on vehicles and some of th eless than fluffy stuff. Lone Wolves also give this feel of attrition, that the [acks have been worn down through thousands of years of war.

If you even wanted to, you can counts as Logan Grimnar for a 13th company Lord, and use his rule that WG= troops to get that elite warrior warband feel if you really wanted to, or Ragnar for a fierce berserker warband leader.

I think the new dex isnt as restrictive as people make out; just people arent thinking of ways to make it work. In my own humble opinion, ok, there are some bits in it that make me shudder, but its a solid, well put together dex with plenty of options to any wolf player. Look through the book again, and look for what you can't have that you used to in the EoT codex, and you'll find that there isnt that much thats disappeared, bar whole units of Wulfen and the gate. But, change happens. We've all got to deal with it. As for GW's policy concerning fluff, and its general smashing of previous accounts, well, you choose which fluff you prefer and base your army around it, as best as can be managed. Its your army at the end of th eday, and it can't be invalidated just because GW releases a new codex. Hell, if you want, ask your local group if you can use the old dex if that makes you happy. Entirely your call. But I for one am not disappointed at all with this new codex.

Bjorn

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

I see what you mean about the Wulfen, im surprised they werent put in as a "legion of the damned" type slot personally..but I dont play wolves or know much about them.

That said, the rules look fine to me. I'll totally be using them for my "King in yellow" xeno army im planning..its almost like they knew what I wanted for that army and gave me the counts-as rules for it lol

[Grimgore]

i'm one of those people who had an heavy Wulfen based force...

Wulfen Lord on a bike with Frost Blade, attached to 1 bike pack
Wolf Priest with Healing Potions and Balms, attached to larger Wulfen pack
Rune Priest with combi-melta, attached to Long Fangs

2 Storm Claw bike packs - check 10 models
2 large Wulfen packs - check 26 models
3 large Fenrisian Wolf packs - check 39 models

5 Long Fang with 4 Meltas

i can salvage most of the list and the models but i am not going to bother, what burns me the most is getting the Wulfen minis and now they are invalidated by the current 'dex. i love the EoT 'dex... have a 13th Co. army and was working on my Lost and the Damned army when they pulled the plug on it... kinda killed the game for me for a bit. now i just play Chaos... at least i know it will always be around.
Grim

[Chumbalaya]

Lord can still be used, Priest is ok, Rune Priest is fine, Storm Claw = Swiftclaw, Wulfen = Lone Wolves, Wolf Guard, MotW critters, doggies = doggies, Long Fangs = GH or WG.

It's not disastrous, but I don't blame you for being pissed. Your army got shafted.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

hrm, reminds me of the complaining about the Lost and the damned army, also featured in the EoT codex. Maybe GW should update the EoT codex book properly for the armies like those that are "invalidated" ? just a thought...

[DarkLink]

The ability to take a single wulfen model in squads is pretty cool. For fairly cheap, you get D6+1 rending attacks in addition to your power weapons and any wolf guard.

[Herald of Nurgle]

Mark of the Wulfen means that you can't use any upgrades - you're slashing at them with claws and jaws, remember?

Yeah. I'm really disappointed with the fact you can't even give MotW to multiple Wolf Guard in the same unit...

[Chumbalaya]

I'd love to see LatD released as a proper Chaos Codex.

[ork mage]

First, as has been said,the 13th was sub list to C:SW, and so I think the majority of people didnt expect it to get a huge amount of space. but its hardly impossible to do a 13th list.


Actually it is.

Wolfen are gone totally, a few lone Wolves and Mark of the wolfen do not replace that.
Wolves now have a leadership of 6 which makes them unplayable as a large part of your army. They are fast moving and hard hitting, but with the AS of 6, forcing a leadership test will be an easy task for the enemy.
Losing the Gate takes away the ability to take out important objectives quickly (Landraiders for instance), although the Fangs are cheaper and haven't changed for the worst.
Yes, Grey Hunters now have effectively the same number of Attacks as the slayers, but only the Scouts have scout and they are not useful in a 13th esque with their 4+ save, although it is fair to say that everything having Scout is broken in Fifth Ed.

As I said, for Space Wolves players there is a lot of good stuff in the codex, I am just disappointed that a major aspect of the Wolves story has been whitewashed and the 13th, who were an integral part of the fluff (in much the same way as the Deathwing) have become victims of it.

One of the great things about the 13th was the way the lack of vehicles and other restrictions were compensated for by the speed and ferocity that they could bring to the table, with the ability to misdirect the enemy by making use of the Scout move a really important factor.
Where else could you build a Marine army with the only guns belonging to Longfangs and on your Boss's bike.
Just feel that the game is losing something with this codex.

[Grimnar42]

Keep ur fingers crossed maybe we will get a mini dex in the future mind u I am still waiting on the cult lists for chaos.
Things I would like to know is can they or cant they teleport now ?
Why a SW landraider can only transport 10 models instead of the generic landraider12 ?
Are Ironclad Dreadnoughts available to SW ?
Are thunderfire cannons available to SW ?
Masters of the chapter SW equivalent ?
I figured SW wouldnt get Landspeeder storms but would have been nice option

Wolfguard pack leaders are now split off from a squad instead of counting as part of the one slot so going to take up a elite slot ie one squad to provide pack leaders on top of any other squad u buy such as Wolf guard terminators.

Not so keen on Space Marine cavalry ??

All in all but I like what I see and what I dont like I can work around or use house rules at home dont want to see all those wulfen models go to waste

[Chumbalaya]

No Storms, Ironclads, Thunderfires, or other Chapter Masters. As for the 10 capacity Land Raider, I have no idea, it's just another pointless arbitrary restriction like IG Sergeants only have laspistols and ccw.

To the OP, I can totally see where you are coming from, but I wouldn't count out infantry based SW lists. Wolves can be buffed with sagas up to Ld7 (and I5) or Ld8 with Canis and can re-roll morale if there's a Thunderwolf mount nearby, so don't worry about them breaking. Thunderwolves are stupid good, as are Lone Wolves and Wolf Guard (Troops if you bring Logan). Gate going is a problem, but Drop Podding or DS Dreads/Speeders can help with that, as can running around with cavalry models brandishing S10 Thunder Hammers with 5 attacks.

[ork mage]

No Storms, Ironclads, Thunderfires, or other Chapter Masters. As for the 10 capacity Land Raider, I have no idea, it's just another pointless arbitrary restriction like IG Sergeants only have laspistols and ccw.

To the OP, I can totally see where you are coming from, but I wouldn't count out infantry based SW lists. Wolves can be buffed with sagas up to Ld7 (and I5) or Ld8 with Canis and can re-roll morale if there's a Thunderwolf mount nearby, so don't worry about them breaking. Thunderwolves are stupid good, as are Lone Wolves and Wolf Guard (Troops if you bring Logan). Gate going is a problem, but Drop Podding or DS Dreads/Speeders can help with that, as can running around with cavalry models brandishing S10 Thunder Hammers with 5 attacks.

No wolf riders for me thank you, lamest idea I ever heard from GW.
Can't have drop pods in a 13th esque army (no vehicles).
As for Canis, I refer you to point one :p

oh well!