SoB Exorcists vs Rending Heavy Bolter Retributors

[Elfy]

For 280 pts I can take 2x Exorcists w/dozer blades (better hide in ruins and forests) or, for 264pts, I can take 3x Heavy Bolter Retributors (w/4 Heavy Bolters and a Sister Superior w/Storm Bolter).

In theory, I should be getting 7x 48” shots of STR 8 AP 1 with the two Exorcist tanks, but, despite the averages, I seem to get 2-3 shots instead of the 7 I should be getting from them.

On the other hand, with the three Heavy Bolter Retributors squad, I reliably get 36x 36” shots of STR 5 AP 4 and 6x 24” shots of STR 4 AP 5 shots with 1 or 2 teams getting Rending. Additionally, a couple of attacks will not likely even take out an entire squad in cover (even if they’re hit with a low AP blast weapon) whereas a couple of good hits could easy disable/destroy both Exorcists.

The Exorcists seem too unreliable to count on. They would be more agreeable if they fired 1d3+2 shots each turn instead of 1d6 shots. Too bad the designer didn’t see it that way (not to mention, it’s a ‘one hit wonder’ since it only takes a single weapon destroyed to nerf it useless).

So how do my other Sisters of Battle (all 1 dozen of you!) players like to make the best use of your Heavy Support slots?

[DarkLink]

Mix them up. Both are pretty good, so instead of limiting yourself to one's strengths and weaknesses cover your bases. Neither is so much stronger than the other that it's an obvious choice.

Believe it or not, very few top tournament lists are that spammy. Aside from a few examples like Goatboy's 50 Grey Hunter 1750 list, a list is almost always stronger with a wide range of flexible units.


So, take one squad of Retributors and two Exorcists. I'd keep the two Exorcists because Sisters otherwise lack long range firepower.

[Bean]

I generally agree with Darklink. Both are pretty good, and you should probably have both. The Exorcists are more mobile, have better range, and are better against some targets (though not most) while the Retributors are more durable and have better damage output against most targets, but have less range and no mobility.

Play one of each. I'm not sure whether I'd advise two Exorcists or two Retributor units. I'd try both.

[Elfy]

I seem to roll way more 1s and 2s than the other numbers when determining the number of missiles my exorcists will fire. Since the numbers of attacks I roll with Exorcists are so persistently low time and time again it’s not really worth just taking 1 of them. I might go with 2 Exorcists and 1 Heavy Bolter Retributor team for the upcoming league I’m participating in. Thanks for your input!

[Bean]

I seem to roll way more 1s and 2s than the other numbers when determining the number of missiles my exorcists will fire. Since the numbers of attacks I roll with Exorcists are so persistently low time and time again it’s not really worth just taking 1 of them. I might go with 2 Exorcists and 1 Heavy Bolter Retributor team for the upcoming league I’m participating in. Thanks for your input!

This is one of those times that relying on your experience for analysis is a bad idea. Bad luck sucks, but believing that bad luck is somehow persistent is irrational.

Or, perhaps you need better dice. GW and Chessex dice roll consistently more ones than sixes. (I actually sat down and tested this, once, rolling a thousand Chessex dice, ten at a time, onto felt, and I got 23.6% more ones than sixes).

But yeah, not that big a deal. Glad to help, and good luck in your league!

[Turkadactyl]

Comparing Exorcists to Retributors is like comparing apples to oranges. They both have different roles on the battle field. As mentioned Sisters lack long range firepower, which the Exorcist is the only long range punch they have. The random sucks but that is part of the allure I guess.

I usually put more gals in my Retributor squads. I try to go 8 strong at least. Those that I play against focus on the Retributors because of the rending. The extra bodies helps buy me some time to allow the heavy bolters to do some damage.

Two Exorcists and 1 squad of Retributors is the way to go. That is how I have been playing my heavy support slots since the Witch Hunters codex came out.

[Bean]

Comparing Exorcists to Retributors is like comparing apples to oranges. They both have different roles on the battle field. As mentioned Sisters lack long range firepower, which the Exorcist is the only long range punch they have. The random sucks but that is part of the allure I guess.


I never get why people say "apples to oranges" as if apples and oranges were things that are difficult to compare. They're really not--in fact, apples and oranges are very similar, and quite comparable. They're especially comparable when you're deciding which to buy--they both occupy essentially the same role in one's diet and eating schedule, they cost similar amounts. When you buy fruit, in fact, you're routinely deciding between buying apples and buying oranges--and of course you're comparing them.

The same is true for Exorcists and Retributors. They cost similar amounts, they fill the same slot in the force organization charge, and they overlap significantly in terms of what targets they can engage effectively.

Retributors and Exorcists are very comparable, and since you basically have to at least some of at least one of them to have a competitive you really have to compare them.

Apples to oranges is basically a rubbish response--a cheap cop-out. These units have to be compared, and comparing them is not that difficult, despite their somewhat-differing roles. Frankly, when you're building an army, if you're not comparing every unit against every other unit that you could possibly take for the same points, you're doing it wrong--which means that not only is apples to oranges a lousy response here, it's pretty much always a lousy response everywhere.

[MrGiggles]

Personally, I field Retributors more than Exorcists, but that's mostly because my Exorcist isn't painted yet. I'll probably wind up fielding them together in some sort of mix. That's just because I haven't had much luck on taking vehicles down with Retributors. I'm not saying it doesn't happen or doesn't work, just that I seem to have better luck targeting infantry.

The other thing to mention is that I find Retributors generally more expensive than Exorcists. The simple reason being that I tend to like to include a Simulacrum Imperialis with the unit and some extra Sisters for some ablative wounds and extra shooting with 24". If you're going with a minimum sized unit of five, it can work, but it can also get shot up pretty easily; just like any other MSU I suppose.

[Garradh]

I mix it up. Two Exorcists and one squad of HB Rets. I find anything less than two Exorcists makes them hit-and-miss.

[marsdonut]

My friend plays 2 exorcists and a large squad of retributors, and we play once a week Sisters versus Orks. From our games, I have deduced that going heavy killa kanz or trukks is just a bad idea. If I'm not outnumbering him, his exorcists pick me apart, and if I don't bring lootas, his retributors constantly cause trouble somewhere else. On average, I am playing the same general list each week (except when I try to be different, and lose quick because of it) I have given up on kommandos because his 1500 force is very mobile and because of certain bits of comfort (deployment is repetitive because he likes to nominate a "snipers nest" pregame, and its usually high up).

Normally, for myself to have a chance, I have to flank with deffkoptas as well as move a large baiting unit in the middle for his Jacobus' deathrhino. Lootas have to trade shots with the retributors, and hopefully win the numbers game, all the while leaving whichever other units to pressure him or entice him to flame/melta my guys. And after the bait is taken, hopefully I have units left to close the trap (if there is one left!) Needless to say, I think the games all play out the same.

To what the topic and others have discussed, I think 2 Exorcist and 1x Retributor is a good mix. I don't think highly of the stormbolter and would much rather see a regular boltgun on thy leader. I have only played against the heavy bolter varient of retributors, but I would be very interested to hear if anyone fielded any with multi-meltas, heavy flamers, or completely vanilla. Would I ever field my friend's SoB, I would probably want to field 2x retributors and 1 exorcist, with one retributor squad geared less stand and shooty. Exorcists definitely need the armor.

[Souba]

i know 2 sisters players and one of them runs 3 exorcists. even though you have less true anti infantry firepower they do hae awesome anti vehicle and anti elite infantry shooting. sisters have enough anti infantry firepower, they lack long range anti tank and exorcists fill that spot greatly.

[thecactusman17]

There is only one list that three retributors cannot reliably deal with, and that is mechanized Wave Serpent Eldar with their "only one die" shenanigans.

Don't forget that you can also toss a unit with heavy flamers into a rhino, rush them up the side, and boom--rending HFs in the opponent's backfield.

[Root]

After 20+ games with the WD Codex I'm fairly sold on the 2 Exorcist and 1 Retributor squad with heavy bolters. Honestly I feel 3 Exorcists might be better but I lack the models to try it. I like the Retributors cuz they're cheap and survivable but even with rending I've yet to knock out anything really impressive with them whilst the Exorcists have been consistently devastating and hard to kill. Whatever you choose I really believe 2 Exorcists are mandatory in a good SoB list. Retributors are optional...

[Speed Freek]

It depends on what else you have in your list.

I'm currently running a foot list and use one multi melta squad and two heavy bolter.

When I run immolators and mechanized - I run all three Exorcists.

Two Exorcists and one heavy bolter is probably the best compromise.

I would not run a single Exorcist though - all the anti tank will make it the prime target and it won't last long.

[Boss Zargore]

I'll admit I haven't run many games with the wd Dex, (pretty dissapointed in it) I have had a few games and Sisters were my go to tournament army with the old dex, so weigh accordingly with my advice. ^^

I usually take three exorcists in any tourney list I run. They consistantly deal with all kinds of threats and provide great support for the rest of the army. I like the mobility they have and their av 13 keeps the safe in the backfield. My typical battle plan is to take out threats to them as a high priority. They tend to last all game that way.

I've really been meaning to experiment with rets, but I've never cared for their lack of mobility. I would say also that as far as a 5 girl squad goes, its probably much easier to damage or wipe them out than it is the exos, and each hit you take from the rets hurts.

That said I think they're still viable and would be okay taking 2 exos and one ret squad. Hope this helps!

[Ziac45]

I run as many excorcists in my list as possible at the points level. What I like about them over the Retributors is that they are more versatile, they can at worst glance every vehicle in the game something that is harder for the heavy bolters to do. They also rock at killing terminators without needing to roll a six, and the strength 8 can get most things with Instant death. I just think all around the Excorcist is a better choice.

[Son_of_Osiris]

I think the higher the points game, the more exorcists you'll need. The lower the points game, the more powerful/useful the retributors are. When you get up to 1850-2500 opponents can really field a ton of armor and hard targets for exorcists, but in lower points games the retributors are able to threaten the enemy's fewer (and therefore more precious) scoring units. I sort of agree that your heavy support should reflect your special weapon choices throughout the rest of the army, however, I'm finding more and more that a balanced mix of specials are the way to go and the HS are based on the size of the game.

But wait... what about penitent engines!?!?!?!

[TheStarkLord]

in my experience the exorcist is usually the way to go. that 48 inch range and ap1 really help your army out by popping transports and making sure you can control the speed at which the enemy comes at you (or runs away). i personally almost always try to take two if points allow and they really need no upgrades except maybe extra armor. but you can skip that if you want and hope your shield of faith will protect you.

also retributors are really just anti-infantry and well your army already does that pretty well already.
so if you have to choose just one i say exorcist. but if you got points two exorcists and a squad of heavy bolter rets wouldn't be too bad. i know i just said you already do anti-infantry well but a little more at better range doesn't hurt.

[Moonley]

I have played sisters for a while and I cant imagine a list that didn't have good answers to vehicles. I played back in fourth and fifth though when armored company existed, eldar players were completely mechanized, same with tau...my sisters had a tough time back then with out my exorcists, so I could just be thinking off old out of date habits.

[Garradh]

And then there are crazy, off-the-wall, wtfmathhammer games like I just played, where my Immolator killed three Rhinos and a Land Raider and my Exorcists and HB Retributors did jack squat but let the other guy laugh while he rolled cover.

Science, what have you wrought?