What Does It Take...

[RedScorpionsGirl]

I know this is going to be a bit on the touchy side, but I would like to give a chance to others to voice their opinions without directly pointing fingers at individual persons..

What do you think it takes to call work "Pro/Master" painted?

If you get a chance to check through ebay, you will see more and more painted models labeled as "Pro", "Master Painted" and more. Sometimes, they are really worthy of this, and sometimes, when you click to check it out, you wonder if the modeller had any idea about the game, or if they just pieced it together, without actually thinking of the gaming impact. While I know that a lot of people simply say that if you sell a model, you can call yourself professional because people have bought you work, but come on. This isn't exactly what I mean.. One piece bought does not a professional make...

It might look pretty, interesting, or cool, but if you are selling it for gaming, and not just collecting, here are a few questions that I wonder if they consider:

- Can the model in question be legally used?
- Would this combination make sense at all?
- Does this model make sense at all (ie. A winged Justicar, a winged Black Templar Marshal..etc)
- Can this model be legally fielded? (While it always says that a model with a large number of weapons is feaible as long as you model it, do you really think that the melta/lightning claw/stormbolter/sword, and don't forget the sword in the sheath on the hip too...would work?) Or another example, a devestator squad sergant with a heavy weapon. (easy fix, just a regular guy in the squad instead of the sgt. But why label it right?)
- Does the title match the model. For example, if it is is titled eldar, is it an eldar?
- Say if it is a marine, for example. If it is listed as an Imperial Fist, is it yellow? Or if it is a Crimson Fist, is it painted as such?
- Color Combination..Does it hurt your eyes? Even if it's painted well, bad color choices can ruin a model...Did they make good use of complimentary colors?
- Quality...How would you rate this model on a scale of 1-10, regardless of how well you can paint, overall, how well does it capture what the artist intended on? Will it fit in with your army?
- Basing. Is the model based for gaming or collecting? If it is based for gaming, is it based correctly? If not, how hard is it to rebase? Is the seller willing to base it for game play? If you have a power armour model that is based on a terminator base, while you can base the model on a larger and not smaller base for play...Do you really want your character to be on the wrong size base?
- Basing 2. How does it look? Will the basing fit in with what you've already done? Is it easy to replicate if you haven't based yet? Will they sell the model on an unfinished base so you can match your army? Are they willing to base it to match your army (mind you these questions are asking of reasonable basing, not asking if the seller will go out and buy a special forgeworld base or such to match your army.. Common sense on this one. If you have a simple flocked/dirt base...it's not hard to replicate..etc)

I know there's a lot more than just these question to ask, so what else would you ask/ look for?

So, is it better to say well painted, or professionally painted? It seems as though it would be better to say well painted, and accept compliments, than Professionally painted and deal with a lot of criticism because it doesn't live up to that particular person's definition of professionally painted?

I'm really curious how everyone looks at this..Thx for responding!

[zed]

Pro Painted rarely lives up to the description. I wouldn't consider myself a pro painter but my work is usually better that 90% of items that you see described as such

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/frazermac/tank1.jpg

[Aldramelech]

By its very definition a Pro painted piece is something painted by someone who makes their living from painting, i.e they are professional figure painters. The problem is that people started using the term to describe any well painted items and then other people started using it as a marketing term to sell less well painted items (and in some cases terrible items!)

Now I would describe myself as an above average painter but I don't make a living from it or do commissions, therefore would never describe anything I was selling as 'Pro Painted'.

Its gets worse when you consider that there are people out there painting 'Professionally' who cant paint to save their lives, so although it is accurate to describe the work as Pro, the standard is poor. You also get items described as 'well painted' or painted to a 'good standard' and the problem with this is that it is very subjective. Lots of these items on Ebay described as such I would personally describe as 'average' or even 'poor'.

The only way to cut through all this BS is too ignore it completely and judge the piece on its own merits rather then its description.

[MUMBLES]

"Pro painted" immediately tells me that whoever is selling that piece thinks very highly of themselves, and therefore, the price. I don't even open them.

[Emperorsmercy]

I sell a fair amount of painted models on ebay, and i describe it as well painted. Hoewever, I also mainly put items on them that look good so a gamer gets the model and realises that in a comptetiitive list, its not really useable. Generally, hardcore gamers shouldn't really buy things on ebay, and even though im wandering slighitly off topic, it was nice to get that off my chest.

[Aldramelech]

I sell a fair amount of painted models on ebay, and i describe it as well painted. Hoewever, I also mainly put items on them that look good so a gamer gets the model and realises that in a comptetiitive list, its not really useable. Generally, hardcore gamers shouldn't really buy things on ebay, and even though im wandering slighitly off topic, it was nice to get that off my chest.

I dont understand........ Why shouldnt hard core gamers buy from ebay??????????????

[Tetz]

Not sure what a "hardcore" gamer is but I buy a lot of things on ebay. I enjoy the painting though so I either buy unpainted, still on sprue or badly painted pieces to be repainted.

I don't buy quality painted pieces because they do go for more than poor or unpainted items and for me it isn't worth the extra. I understand the higher price, and for those wanting a nice army and they aren't painters it's a great way to do it.

[fade_74]

Most people who advertise pro-painted minis are utter crap. I consider myself a top notch painter. I use airbrushing, wetblending, freehand, drybrushing, weathering with powders, and paints and NMM. I spend at least 3 hours on any basic troop paintjob. I have been painting for about 20 years now, but I would NEVER call myself a pro painter. I let others call me whatever they want when they see my stuff. If I were to sell something on ebay I would title it "Finely painted whatever" and then I would fill it up with nice pics for all the people to judge for themselves. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Abominable Plague Marine]

As most have already commented, labeling something subjectively defeats the purpose. I dont know about you guys but when I "search" for things on eBay, I never type in ~pro painted~ or anything of the sorts. Gernally items labeled as such will be ignored as I troll through looking for what I want. Generally they are just trying to justify their "buy it now" or "reserve" price, or whatever.

If anything was truely pro painted it would be by someone employed by a studio, and for them to sell their work on the side like that smacks of moonlighting and Id have none of it anyway.

[MaltonNecromancer]

Generally, hardcore gamers shouldn't really buy things on ebay

Arrogant much? :mad:

Where else am I going to buy 1st edition Space Marine Librarians? Where else am I going to find Bob Olley sculpts? Where else am I going to be able to find all those really obscure Adeptus Mechanicus models with the gribbly face pipes?

What should hardcore gamers be doing? Please, dispense some pearls of wisdom from atop the boughs of the learning tree that I may bask in the glorious knowledge of the subtle art that is "hardcore". As a fat social reject with low self-esteem, I need to be "hardcore" to fit in with all those cool kids; the approval of others is all I have to gauge my own value as a human being.

Back on-topic, pro-painted tends to mean "basic colours blocked in" at best, or "dipped in paint until the only definite shape that you're certain of is the sword; and that might be an axe". Never seen a "pro-painted" model where I didn't think "I can do better", and I'm bloody awful at painting.

[Aldramelech]

:D;):eek:Lol

[sukigod]

I'm not sure where I heard this in my particular past, but it's the definition I use.

Professional: Someone who has been paid/employed at what they do for a living for two years or more.

Yes, that does make me a "Professional Designer". Mini painter? No. I've been miniature modeling for over 25 years but I don't make a living from it. Could I? Maybe. Yes, there are a number of "studios" that churn out mediocre (or less) work and could still be considered "professional" by this definition. Would I pay for that level of quality? No. But some do. S'alright for them, I guess.

Master is a different word entire and should be judged differently than "Pro". Master means someone who is most likely in the top 3-5% of whatever ever skill/art/task they're attempting to achieve. Insofar as mini painting, there's not that many. I would assume a list of awards and accolades - maybe thier name whispered at conventions. A Master's work should be aspired to.

On the flip side and definitions aside, I think most people, after seeing the first page or two of "Pro PAINTED!!!!!!" get the idea that the hyperbole is unwarrented and move on, or click just for a good laugh - I know I do.

[RedScorpionsGirl]

Honestly, I would like to see the title "well painted' more than pro/master. This gives the person(s) viewing the chance to make their own decision on whether or not it is better than that. The ones I tire of...even off ebay and on cool mini or not are those that call it professional, and once you look at it, they don't even take the time to fill gaps, or the worst.. Professionally Painted, and upon further inspection, fully of unsightly, obvious mould lines...rather disappointing that a model's good paint job can be ruined by this..wouldn't you say?

[MajorSoB]

When someone posts the term " Pro Painted" on eBay it is only advertising, nothing more. It holds as much credibility as the term "New and Improved". Some people use Pro Painted in their search engine to find interesting models to buy. If it didn't work no one would use it.

I don't think that you are ever going to come up with a standard as to what Pro Painted should symbolize although I like some of the descriptions that you have listed in your definition. While I rarely sell anything on eBay, I have done some commission work and would freely use the term Pro Painted to describe my work. I paint better than 90% of the people out there, my models are well assembled and quite usable in gaming. I don't derive a decent portion of my living from painting however I am certain that someone who bought one of my models would be extremely happy with the quality they received.

I guess for me the litmus test is whether or not it is Pro Painted worthy is simple visual. Do you like what you see? Remember what we do is artistic and creative. There is a vast range in artists from DaVinci to Michelangelo, others such as Warhol and Picasso, and even clowns like Maplethorpe who claim to fame was a crucifixion in urine. Artist was a term given to all of them, although I may disagree, they were free to use that self description much as eBay listers use Pro Painted to describe their work.