Praetorians and 6th. Rampant speculation.

[ZenPaladin]

So I was thinking about the triarch praetorians today and boggling that they are such a weak option. Especially with their weapon of choice the rod if the covenenant. We know that the Necrons are designed to be 6th Ed comparable. We can see proof of it with things like the monoliths heavy designation.

But when we look at alot of the weaker options in the codex, could we be looking at the shape of things to come? Preferred Enemy on Destroyers has most thinking that it will be effective in the shooting phase. Could 1A, jump pack close combat troops for 50 points lead us to another assumption?

Assault weapons can be used with their profile in the assault phase. It's the only thing I can think of that justifies their point cost and range.

[Thiazi]

there is a lot of speculation about this right now. Personally i just buy and play with the current rule set in mind. If the leaked rules and rumors are to be believed alot of the necron units will gain power with 6th edition, but my guess is those rules and rumors are based on early play test rules and will have changed considerably by the time the book is released.

[Necron_Lord]

It is pretty safe to assume that Preferred Enemy will apply to the shooting phase in 6e, but we don't know the specifics yet.

It is also pretty safe to assume that certain units can assault after Deep Striking, like Jump Infantry. There supposedly will be defensive fire so these units can be shot before they assault but certain units will be immune from it, like Vanguard Veterans. The Necron wargear for the Crypteks which work against units Deep Striking within 6" confirm that this will happen as well as the Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs rule for Imotekh the Stormlord.

We'll have to wait for a genuine leaked copy of 6e to be available to really do the math and get in some games to see what will work and what won't.

[FTE-Charge!!!]

I dont know about your assault weapon prediction. But if they get the charge against a marine equ they will do pretty good. I havent figured out the pistol ccw combo yet. Too expensive to hope for rending attacks.

[Kaika87]

I hope something happens to Rapid Fire and Sniper. Deathmarks are such cool models, it's a shame.

[Kawauso]

I don't think Praetorians are as bad as everyone's been saying...
Granted I haven't had a chance to field any yet (I don't get many chances to play these days), but I'm hoping to run a few of them with a Destroyer Lord w/ orb - on paper it seems like it could be a pretty solid unit.

[doogansquest]

It is pretty safe to assume that Preferred Enemy will apply to the shooting phase in 6e, but we don't know the specifics yet.

It is also pretty safe to assume that certain units can assault after Deep Striking, like Jump Infantry. There supposedly will be defensive fire so these units can be shot before they assault but certain units will be immune from it, like Vanguard Veterans. The Necron wargear for the Crypteks which work against units Deep Striking within 6" confirm that this will happen as well as the Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs rule for Imotekh the Stormlord.

We'll have to wait for a genuine leaked copy of 6e to be available to really do the math and get in some games to see what will work and what won't.

Very well said. For these, and other reasons, I'm not too disappointed that the Necron 2nd wave will come later than most expect. Don't want to be spending all that cash on what could be silly units.

[Hogleg]

I hope something happens to Rapid Fire and Sniper. Deathmarks are such cool models, it's a shame.

I think Deathmarks still have their place in the 5th meta. Twin Linking shots is no joke, especially when played with stalkers.

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I thought Praetorians were Imperial Guard guys in red jackets with pith helmets led by Michael Caine. What are you people talking about?

[Kaika87]

I think Deathmarks still have their place in the 5th meta. Twin Linking shots is no joke, especially when played with stalkers.

I think you've gotten something mixed up, the Deathmarks don't twin-link anything. All they do is let themselves and other Deathmark units wound on 2+. Admittedly, there's a good use for that against MCs, but the biggest problem with them is the short range.

[CrimsonTurkey]

If preferred enemy does work for shooting, Old Adversary on a Hive Tyrant is about to make nids a lot scarier. Just imagine a brood of four warriors and a prime putting out 15 S5 shots at BS4/5 with re-rolls to hit, or the sheer weight of fire coming from termagants with 50% more effective shooting.

[Wildcard]

Hmm, how was it with the assault weapons on the 'leaked 6th ed. rules'?

Assault weapons can count as a second CCW on the first round of close combat, if the unit does not already have 2nd ccw?

This would make the GK incredibly good at assaulting stuff:
Now:
Purifier:
2A base
+ 1A Falchions
+ 1A charge
At best, total of 4 attacks (that are armor ignoring, and causing instant death on all the strikes)

Terminator:
2A Base
+1 falchions
+1 charge
+1 banner
At best, total of 5 attacks ( that are armor ignoring, and causing instant death on all the strikes)

If 6th rumors are true:
Purifier:
2A base
+ 1A Falchions
+ 1A charge
+ 1A Additional to charge for the assault weapon that acts as a second CCW
At best, total of 5 attacks (that are armor ignoring, and causing instant death on all the strikes)
Full squad (for total horde control) puts out 50 power / force weapon attacks on the charge

And even on the base cost of the Purifier (24pts?) Its a total of 4A on the charge

Terminator:
2A Base
+1 falchions
+1 charge
+ 1A Additional to charge for the assault weapon that acts as a second CCW
+1 banner
At best, total of 6 attacks ( that are armor ignoring, and causing instant death on all the strikes)
Full squad (for total horde control) puts out 54 power / force weapon attacks on the charge + 6 normal attacks (the banner carrier)

---------------------------------------------

Even the most basic of troops (GK Strike Squad member with 1A base) will be striking 3 times on the charge without upgrades.
200point 10man marine squad with all power weapons would be striking 31 times on the charge (after that it drops to 11 strikes per round)

This would truly live up to the ideology that i believe i heard that GK wants to assault only if they can be sure that they can wipe the enemy out :)

[gredert]

I hope something happens to Rapid Fire and Sniper. Deathmarks are such cool models, it's a shame.

Am I missing something in the rules that doesnt allow them to rapid fire as snipers? Cause I have been running 5 of them in 1k lists and they are great as a way to DS a unit in close that can hit on 3's and wound 1target on 2s, and their shots double if I get in the ever important RF range.

To me the only big changes to shooting I hope we see in 6th is a chart for shooting like in fantasy with bonuses and negatives that mean shooting will need to be applied wisely to be effective, as well as I would love to see a rules addition to sniper rifles that state they give +1 to BS, or at least a +1 on the afore mentioned chart.

[PhatCat]

There has to be something in 6th Ed that makes Praetorians useful. They are in the realm of terribad right now. But anything that's out right is speculation at best.

[Kaika87]

Am I missing something in the rules that doesnt allow them to rapid fire as snipers? Cause I have been running 5 of them in 1k lists and they are great as a way to DS a unit in close that can hit on 3's and wound 1target on 2s, and their shots double if I get in the ever important RF range.

To me the only big changes to shooting I hope we see in 6th is a chart for shooting like in fantasy with bonuses and negatives that mean shooting will need to be applied wisely to be effective, as well as I would love to see a rules addition to sniper rifles that state they give +1 to BS, or at least a +1 on the afore mentioned chart.

No no, I didn't mean to give that impression. I just think the range on Deathmarks is underwhelming. That "all-important" Rapid-Fire double tap range has another name too, and that's "charge range." Granted, that's in a vacuum where any number of factors are left out. You might have a massive terrain piece between you and your target, giving them a tough time of getting to you, or you might have a unit if Wraiths you're about to tie them up with. Or you have a Seismic Crucible in the squad. But all of these are just stalling tactics.

If the Deathmarks had Assault Sniper weapons, or heck if they just had a longer range but still Rapid Fire, I'd be all over them like a blueberry muffin. Just the combination of a) mid-range weapons and b) Rapid Fire makes them situational at best. Like I said, great against Monstrous Creatures l, but I'd be mucb happier if I they could shoot further out or on on the move. I'd love to give them a VeilTek in the latter case and hop around, and yes if they had a Phaeron they could do just that, but that seems like it would make a very expensive unit into a juicy target.

[Wolfshade]

I thought Praetorians were Imperial Guard guys in red jackets with pith helmets led by Michael Caine. What are you people talking about?
I have to say reading the title my initial thoughts were of Praetorian rumours - best ImpyG regiment ever

[docbungle]

I don't think Praetorians are as bad as everyone's been saying...
Granted I haven't had a chance to field any yet (I don't get many chances to play these days), but I'm hoping to run a few of them with a Destroyer Lord w/ orb - on paper it seems like it could be a pretty solid unit.

It does well only thing holding it back is my bad dice rolls!

Would recommend mind-scarabs as well on the lord :D

[xxvaderxx]

While i still play and assemble models, i limit it to my 1500 list, i have models for more than that but i am holding back until i see 6th

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I have to say reading the title my initial thoughts were of Praetorian rumours - best ImpyG regiment ever

Thank you! I wondered when someone was going to figure out what I was talking about. Theses new Necron players are a tad serious.

I was thinnking it might be possible to resurrect Praetorians using Cadian bodies with heads from some 28mm British Zulu-War line. They would not look as good but they'd be lighter and cheaper. Have you seen what the old metal Praetorians go for on Ebay?

[Toaster36]

Just to add to the speculation: Anyone else notice that Praetorians don't have grenades? Neither do Lychguards. Or Flayed Ones. I don't think the word "grenade" is even mentioned anywhere in the codex.

[Kawauso]

It's not (except defensive grenades from Crypteks). Most of the time it makes little difference in an army of I2. Necrons have to rely on toughness to let them get their attacks in most of the time.

[Wolfshade]

I was thinnking it might be possible to resurrect Praetorians using Cadian bodies with heads from some 28mm British Zulu-War line. They would not look as good but they'd be lighter and cheaper. Have you seen what the old metal Praetorians go for on Ebay?
I know how much they go for, do you remember the old praetorian box set? a mate of mine found it in his loft and sold it and brought a couple of battle forces and tanks off the profits

[Drunkencorgimaster]

I know how much they go for, do you remember the old praetorian box set? a mate of mine found it in his loft and sold it and brought a couple of battle forces and tanks off the profits

I believe it. I wanted one on Ebay about two years ago and bailed when it hit $400 with still over two days to go on the auction.

-Oh, and Birmingham rocks by the way. I've been there doing research twice. Great town. Much nicer people than London.