What if... to hit modifiers (a brain fart)

[Renegade]

Reading through Kirby's news articles, and this though t came as an obvious fix to transports, and cover saves. The change would be quite simple, and need not change much the rules around cover.

Non-vehicles, including monstrous (but not gigantic) would be a -1 to BS to a minium of 1 for each full 6 inches of movement.

Vehicles and gigantic creatures would get the same for every full 12 inches of movement.

I wouldn't really change cover saves if these modifiers where in place, other than making vehicle save similar to other, but 5+ rather than 4... they're just to big. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in1eK3x1PBI)

No doubt the PA crowd will disagree, but I think it would be a good step forward in the development of the rules.

[mysterex]

I has some merit - the number of times I've seen someone miss a land-raider at close range is a bit ridiculous.

It should be easier to hit a vehicle or monstrous creature than a normal sized model everything else being equal. The ability to inflict any significant damage is already covered armour and wounds.

[Scion_of_Terra]

I like this idea. Here's my two cents on the subject:

When shooting, the following modifiers should apply to the 'to hit' roll.
+1 for shooting at a large target (they're big - it should be easier to hit them)
-1 for shooting at a vehicle that has moved over 6" (it's harder to target vulnerabilities)
-2 for shooting at a vehicle that has moved over 12" (the enemy can't kill you if he can't hit you)
-1 for shooting at a vehicle that has popped smoke (obscures weak points in the armor)
-1 for shooting at a model or unit in cover (this would be combined with a general reduction in cover saves from a 4+ to a 5+)
-1 for shooting at turboboosting bikes
-1 for a model without relentless moving and firing a heavy weapon
-1 for shooting if the unit took an unsaved wound from a Pinning weapon in the previous player turn (replacing the current rule for Pinning weapons)
A roll of a '6' always hits
Note that as this is a modifier to the die roll, not the model's BS skill, a unit firing a blast weapon will not modify the distance the blast template scatters. Template weapons are of course unaffected as well.

Consider the following scenarios:
1. A Space Marine with a meltagun shoots at a Raider that has moved 24" into cover, and will hit on a 5+ (BS4 +1 for shooting at a large target, -2 for shooting at a vehicle that has moved over 12", and -1 for shooting at a model in cover).
2. An IG heavy weapons team moves 6" and fires at a monstrous creature, hitting on a 4+ (BS3 +1 for shooting at a large target, -1 for moving and shooting with a heavy weapon).
3. A Devastator squad shoots at a Rhino that has moved 12" and popped smoke, and will hit on a 4+ (BS4 -1 for shooting at a vehicle that has moved over 6", +1 for shooting at a large target, -1 for smoke).
4. A War Walker shoots at a stationary Manticore, hitting on a 3+ (BS3 +1 for shooting at a large target).
5. A Tactical squad shoots at turboboosting Reavers which killed two Marines with Grav-Talons in their Movement phase, hitting on 5's (BS4 -1 for shooting at a turboboosting unit and -1 for being Pinned)

[MaltonNecromancer]

If I want to play 1st edition 40K, I'll play 1st edition 40K. I remember the bad old days - I do not want them back! More maths = more boring. I'm fully aware it's easy to do, but it's not easy to memorise, and adds a layer of irritating complexity unless you're a maths geek. Which not every player is.

Find a way that doesn't involve any adding and subtracting, and I'll listen.

[triplare]

The ideas listed here sound like pretty decent ideas (in general) except that I think 6th edition will bring about many other changes to the basic rules which would make these suggestions moot; but I do agree that some type of modifiers for hits are needed for non-vehicle ground troops.

[Renegade]

I like this idea. Here's my two cents on the subject:

When shooting, the following modifiers should apply to the 'to hit' roll.
+1 for shooting at a large target (they're big - it should be easier to hit them)
-1 for shooting at a vehicle that has moved over 6" (it's harder to target vulnerabilities)
-2 for shooting at a vehicle that has moved over 12" (the enemy can't kill you if he can't hit you)
-1 for shooting at a vehicle that has popped smoke (obscures weak points in the armor)
-1 for shooting at a model or unit in cover (this would be combined with a general reduction in cover saves from a 4+ to a 5+)
-1 for shooting at turboboosting bikes
-1 for a model without relentless moving and firing a heavy weapon
-1 for shooting if the unit took an unsaved wound from a Pinning weapon in the previous player turn (replacing the current rule for Pinning weapons)
A roll of a '6' always hits
Note that as this is a modifier to the die roll, not the model's BS skill, a unit firing a blast weapon will not modify the distance the blast template scatters. Template weapons are of course unaffected as well.

Consider the following scenarios:
1. A Space Marine with a meltagun shoots at a Raider that has moved 24" into cover, and will hit on a 5+ (BS4 +1 for shooting at a large target, -2 for shooting at a vehicle that has moved over 12", and -1 for shooting at a model in cover).
2. An IG heavy weapons team moves 6" and fires at a monstrous creature, hitting on a 4+ (BS3 +1 for shooting at a large target, -1 for moving and shooting with a heavy weapon).
3. A Devastator squad shoots at a Rhino that has moved 12" and popped smoke, and will hit on a 4+ (BS4 -1 for shooting at a vehicle that has moved over 6", +1 for shooting at a large target, -1 for smoke).
4. A War Walker shoots at a stationary Manticore, hitting on a 3+ (BS3 +1 for shooting at a large target).
5. A Tactical squad shoots at turboboosting Reavers which killed two Marines with Grav-Talons in their Movement phase, hitting on 5's (BS4 -1 for shooting at a turboboosting unit and -1 for being Pinned)


Don't get me wrong, but how good you are at hitting a barn door is already part of the BS of the unit. The only thing that should improve your chances is should be wargear. imho.

I see where you're coming from, but I do number crunching all-day at work, I really don't want to have to think to much in the games I have afterwards... it what makes the current edition, to me, pretty much okay.

[Mr.Pickelz]

Hmm, while i like the effort put into this, i have to say it looks a lot like fantasy in that with all the modifiers to BS in Fantasy, direct shooting is handicapped when compared to other shooting options like stone throwers and cannons which don't rely on a BS skill. Thus tossing those units down the ladder(or shoots) of effectiveness and viability. :(

[Hive Mind]

I think this is a good idea, much as I thought so the first time I read it in the leaked/faked 6th. Ed. rules.

[Wildeybeast]

I quite like modifiers in fantasy and I don't see why it won't work in 40k, they have always felt like the better option to me. Of course the question is, how similar do the designers want 40k to be to fantasy? I mean why not do away with AP values and just have S modifieres, same as fantasy. I suspect the lack of modifieres in 40k is a deliberate design choice to differentiate it from fantasy.

[Spectral Dragon]

Great line of thinking, great for putting this up.

That said, I don't like it. Hitting a moving target is already part of the units BS.

I imagine a lot more shots would actually go across the field than we are seeing on the tabletop, actually, and most of the time everyone is missing. By making the rate of fire for the weapons less than what it is I imagine is one way they show that moving targets are hard to hit.

[Dalleron]

Honeslty, if you want all those modifiers, play WHFB. THey exist there already, and got into 1st ed 40k, as mentioned above.

Sure they make sense and all, but we are talking about a game here. Maybe 6th will bring some similiar ideas to the table.

[Wolfshade]

If I want to play 1st edition 40K, I'll play 1st edition 40K. I remember the bad old days - I do not want them back!
Quite right, plus "lucky hank" wouldn't have been named if he had managed to hit very large very close objects with his krak missiles...