2k Eldar fun list (warning- Forge World units!)

[Krisken]

I've spent some time trying to update my Eldar list and thought I'd get some comments/advice from you, the viewer at home. :)

HQ
Eldrad
Avatar

Troops
10 Guardians, BL Weapon Platform
10 Guardians, BL Weapon Platform
10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer Conceal
3 Guardian Jetbikes

Fast Attack
Hornet, 2 Scatter Lasers
Hornet, 2 Scatter Lasers

Elite
5 Fire Dragons, Wave Serpent, Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones
4 Harlequins with Kisses, 1 Shadowseer with Kiss

Heavy
Warp Hunter, Spirit Stones
Wraithlord, Bright Lance Missile Launcher
Wraithlord, Bright Lance Missile Launcher

Comes in at 1992. The idea is to have the Wraithguard and Wraithlords serve as an anchor unit and the Avatar and the Guardians serve as a second flank group, each side having a counter attack group of the Avatar on one side and the Harlequins on the other.

Anyways, how's it look?

[Infinite Freedom]

In a word: Scary. Unless your are facing off against Nids or Green Tide Orks.

[Krisken]

In a word: Scary. Unless your are facing off against Nids or Green Tide Orks.

That could indeed be a problem for the list. I'm hoping that the Warp Hunter and the two Hornets will be able to whittle down any horde style armies enough to make them manageable. If I find they are too difficult to overcome, I may have to find a way to deal with that threat.

Thanks for the comment and observation!

[alshrive]

with 2 wraithlords, and a unit of wraithguard i would feel tempted to recommend you include a Wraithseer! not only is the model drop-dead gorgeous but the rules back it up quite nicely too! overall i like the feel of the army, i just think that a Wraithseer would fit better than Eldrad personally.

My Two Cents (well Pence i guess, what with being British)
ALShrive

[Chumbalaya]

"Fun" is certainly a way to describe it.

Why not go all out and throw in Hawks, Spears, Scorpions and Vibro Cannons?

[Krisken]

"Fun" is certainly a way to describe it.

Why not go all out and throw in Hawks, Spears, Scorpions and Vibro Cannons?

No need to be mean. I haven't really played my Eldar since 3rd Edition, so being snarky doesn't really help me any. Of course, I could just play a pile of Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms like everyone else, eh? Booooorriiinng.

[Bean]

Pretty unspectactular, really. But, then, since you're not trying to build a good list, it's not entirely clear what sort of advice you want.

[Krisken]

Pretty unspectactular, really. But, then, since you're not trying to build a good list, it's not entirely clear what sort of advice you want.

I suppose I'm not entirely clear on what a "good" Eldar list is (and tbh, no one has really said WHY the list is so bad past using Bright Lances on the Guardians).

Perhaps I should just go back to Daemons with this kind of criticism!

[Bean]

I suppose I'm not entirely clear on what a "good" Eldar list is (and tbh, no one has really said WHY the list is so bad past using Bright Lances on the Guardians).

Perhaps I should just go back to Daemons with this kind of criticism!

Lol, you'll almost certainly get as much criticism playing daemons--there are very, very few good Daemon builds.

So, what makes it bad.

Well, first, foot guardians with brightlances are basically worthless. You might play one, just to camp home objectives, but I really wouldn't bring two.

Wraithguard aren't terrible, but they're not exactly great. I see how they fit into this list, but their utility is still fairly limited--largely because of their very low threat range.

Scatter Laser hornets don't seem like a great buy.

Fire dragons in the wave serpent are a very good buy.

The small harlequin unit seems dubious--they're basically assault only, and such a small unit will have a hard time cleaning up assaults tough enough to make them worthwhile.

I'm not sure what the Warp Hunter does (if it's the one I think it is, I have a hard time imagining any opponent agreeing to play against it in a regular game--it's basically an Apocalypse piece, and one of the more overpowered ones at that).

But the two Wraithlords seem dubious--shooty wraithlords just don't really put out damage that warrants how expensive they are.

Avatar and Eldrad are both pretty reasonable.

So, what would I do?

Short of actually trying to build a good Eldar list, I would:

drop one of the guardian units
drop a wraithlord, and drop a gun off the second wraithlord in favor of a sword.
bulk the Harlequins up to ten
Add a shuriken cannon to the jetbikes.
Add a Dire-avenger/Wave Serpent unit.

Not sure what to tell you about the Warp Hunter.

[Krisken]

Lol, you'll almost certainly get as much criticism playing daemons--there are very, very few good Daemon builds.
On that I would definitely agree (though I would argue I know that book inside and out and what works and what doesn't, much different than Eldar). Until they either have a reliable way to get their MC's into close combat with vehicles (instead of being shot to pieces upon arriving) or have a consistent way to destroy vehicles with shooting, they'll always be be weak against mech.



So, what makes it bad.

Well, first, foot guardians with brightlances are basically worthless. You might play one, just to camp home objectives, but I really wouldn't bring two.

Wraithguard aren't terrible, but they're not exactly great. I see how they fit into this list, but their utility is still fairly limited--largely because of their very low threat range.

Scatter Laser hornets don't seem like a great buy.

Fire dragons in the wave serpent are a very good buy.

The small harlequin unit seems dubious--they're basically assault only, and such a small unit will have a hard time cleaning up assaults tough enough to make them worthwhile.

I'm not sure what the Warp Hunter does (if it's the one I think it is, I have a hard time imagining any opponent agreeing to play against it in a regular game--it's basically an Apocalypse piece, and one of the more overpowered ones at that).

But the two Wraithlords seem dubious--shooty wraithlords just don't really put out damage that warrants how expensive they are.

Avatar and Eldrad are both pretty reasonable.

So, what would I do?

Short of actually trying to build a good Eldar list, I would:

drop one of the guardian units
drop a wraithlord, and drop a gun off the second wraithlord in favor of a sword.
bulk the Harlequins up to ten
Add a shuriken cannon to the jetbikes.
Add a Dire-avenger/Wave Serpent unit.

Not sure what to tell you about the Warp Hunter.
That's very helpful, and more what I was looking for. Some reasoned arguments against the Wraithlords as shooting platforms and you make a good point on the Harlequins (ugh, painting Harlequins). I'm confused on the hate for the scatter laser Hornets, but maybe it's the idea of paying extra for the scatter lasers that does it. Perhaps switch to Shuriken Cannons and keep the cost at 65 (with their speed and being able to fire after moving at cruising speed I wonder if losing the 12" range of the Lasers hurts me as much as I initially thought)?

The Warp Hunter isn't really all that strong. As soon as it loses that one gun, it's pretty much useless. I play with a fairly open minded group of people and if we don't like how it plays I'll just use it as a Fire Prism.

Ok, if I make the changes above, it looks more like-


HQ
Eldrad
Avatar

Troops
5 Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent, Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones
10 Guardians, BL Weapon Platform
10 Wraithguard, Spiritseer, Conceal
3 Guardian Jetbikes, Shuriken Cannon

Fast Attack
Hornet, 2 Shuriken Cannons
Hornet, 2 Shuriken Cannons

Elite
5 Fire Dragons, Wave Serpent, Scatter Lasers, Spirit Stones
9 Harlequins with Kisses, 1 Shadowseer with Kiss

Heavy
Warp Hunter, Spirit Stones
Wraithlord, Bright Lance, Wraithsword

Coming in at 1962.

[D'Natagal]

I love the new Hornets. I run mine with 2x Pulse Lasers. Use the Warp Hunter to pop the Land Raider and then the Hornets shoot up the Termies. It works wonders.

Really consider adding the Wraithseer to your list. Would be very fluffy and very powerful. Keep your Wraithlords near the Seer and march forward with your screening Wraithguard. The Seer can give fleet and Feel No Pain to Wraith units. Yummy!

[Krisken]

I love the new Hornets. I run mine with 2x Pulse Lasers. Use the Warp Hunter to pop the Land Raider and then the Hornets shoot up the Termies. It works wonders.

Really consider adding the Wraithseer to your list. Would be very fluffy and very powerful. Keep your Wraithlords near the Seer and march forward with your screening Wraithguard. The Seer can give fleet and Feel No Pain to Wraith units. Yummy!

Do you run into problems with the Hornets making back their points cost at all or do they often get shot up before they can fire the guns? That 125 point cost scared the heck out of me!

I do love the Wraithseer (and may indeed move in that direction), but again the points scared me off a bit. A Wraith Lord charge would be pretty neat, though.

[Bean]

Hm...I hadn't done the math, but I was hoping you could get more DA than that. I'd find something to drop to fill out that squad. I'd probably find a couple of ten point upgrades to drop and fill that squad out to ten.

I was thinking the Warp Hunter was one of the 2 point superheavies with a big Destroyer weapon. What does it actually do?

Also, I really don't know about the Hornets. They seem awfully expensive. Maybe drop one, use the points to fill out some other stuff, and see how it goes. If you end up just loving them, you can always put the second one back in.

[Krisken]

Hm...I hadn't done the math, but I was hoping you could get more DA than that. I'd find something to drop to fill out that squad. I'd probably find a couple of ten point upgrades to drop and fill that squad out to ten.

I was thinking the Warp Hunter was one of the 2 point superheavies with a big Destroyer weapon. What does it actually do?

Also, I really don't know about the Hornets. They seem awfully expensive. Maybe drop one, use the points to fill out some other stuff, and see how it goes. If you end up just loving them, you can always put the second one back in.

If I drop a Hornet I can raise the unit to 10 and have quite a few points left over.

The Warp Hunter is basically a Fire Prism that costs an extra 10 points and has a D-Cannon barrage weapon/+6" (small end up to 6" away from gun) flame template.

(still playing around) Egads, doing way too much removing/adding units! I think I'm losing focus a bit.

Would it be terrible if I had 8 Harlies plus Shadowseer and add Eldrad to the unit (making it 10 total models) and drop the Avatar for the Wraithseer? I could even keep the 2nd Hornet and the points would come to 1990.

[Bean]

If I drop a Hornet I can raise the unit to 10 and have quite a few points left over.

The Warp Hunter is basically a Fire Prism that costs an extra 10 points and has a D-Cannon barrage weapon/+6" (small end up to 6" away from gun) flame template.

(still playing around) Egads, doing way too much removing/adding units! I think I'm losing focus a bit.

Would it be terrible if I had 8 Harlies plus Shadowseer and add Eldrad to the unit (making it 10 total models) and drop the Avatar for the Wraithseer? I could even keep the 2nd Hornet and the points would come to 1990.

I don't know what the Wraithseer does, so I can't really comment on that.

Eldrad with Harlies is pretty unorthodox, but it does seem like it could be decent. And, sure--you don't really need a full unit of Harlies, necessarily, it's just that five seems pretty light. Nine would probably be fine.

[Chumbalaya]

No need to be mean. I haven't really played my Eldar since 3rd Edition, so being snarky doesn't really help me any. Of course, I could just play a pile of Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms like everyone else, eh? Booooorriiinng.

Mean? You said in the OP you were looking for a "fun" list. What's more fun than Vibro Cannons?;)
But seriously, there's not much you can talk about with a "fun" list, since anything goes in a casual setting and winning doesn't matter.

Now, if you were trying to tune up your casual list to have more teeth, then we've got something to talk about.

[D'Natagal]

Since Hornets can Outflank, I just fly them on the board 12", shoot whatever needs to die, then spend the rest of the game alternating flat out and killing stuff. 11 front and side is AMAZING. Last game my 2 Hornets killed 8 Termies, 2 Razorbacks and a Scout storm and only lost one by the end of the game. I truly love the Aerial assault rule.

And I haven't used the Wraithseer yet, but would in a heartbeat. I have always wanted to run an entire Wraith army! Plus the idea of equpping him with a D-Cannon is awesome.

[Krisken]

Mean? You said in the OP you were looking for a "fun" list. What's more fun than Vibro Cannons?;)
But seriously, there's not much you can talk about with a "fun" list, since anything goes in a casual setting and winning doesn't matter.

Now, if you were trying to tune up your casual list to have more teeth, then we've got something to talk about.

I suppose what I should have said instead of 'fun' was 'not tournament'. I'm obviously not going to be tearing up even a local tournament scene with the list, but I would like something which can hold its own (or fight with its last dying breath) against my mates (who play Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Space Marines, Necron, IG, Tyranids, and Orks).

Considering these are guys who load up on 2 Librarian's with Null Zone when they know I'm bringing Daemons, I don't mind hitting them with a tough list now and again. ;)



Since Hornets can Outflank, I just fly them on the board 12", shoot whatever needs to die, then spend the rest of the game alternating flat out and killing stuff. 11 front and side is AMAZING. Last game my 2 Hornets killed 8 Termies, 2 Razorbacks and a Scout storm and only lost one by the end of the game. I truly love the Aerial assault rule.

And I haven't used the Wraithseer yet, but would in a heartbeat. I have always wanted to run an entire Wraith army! Plus the idea of equpping him with a D-Cannon is awesome.

BS4 Aerial Assault really is a fantastic buy and one of the reasons I went with them over the War Walkers I've seen most Footdar style lists use. I'm also pretty sure I'm going with the Wraithseer over the Avatar at this point. Giving a Wraithguard or Wraithlord FNP seems kind of crazy gross at this point.

One thing that bothers me about the list is how thin it is on troops. I know the Jetbikes are likely to die a horrible death until I can get the hang of using them.

[Chumbalaya]

Tailoring against Daemons? Jeez, that's weaksauce. Dreadsock, ahoy!

[Krisken]

Tailoring against Daemons? Jeez, that's weaksauce. Dreadsock, ahoy!

That's pretty much how I feel about it. Still, it's a close match up and I generally tend to squeak out the win anyways, so I must be doing ok with them. ;)