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herigonz
03-16-2012, 10:55 AM
Hey all,

I decided to take the plunge and jump into Warmachine with one of my buddies and we agreed to split the Two Player battle box. He was more keen on going Khador and I decided in favor of the Protectorate of Menoth. All ready I've come across a lot of guides that tell me general starting strategies as well as where to expand (Choir and Vassal seem to be the two easiest ways to expand).

In any case, how competitive is the Protectorate? The one thing I've gotten from reading at various places is that you don't have the same issues of game balance you tend to find in 40K (which is the other game I mostly play). So I don't expect to lose a lot early on because I have an underpowered army as much as I might just need to learn strategy and such.

Are all comer lists the way to go in this game or do people inevitably all gravitate to lists made to assassinate the opposing warcaster/warlock?

wittdooley
03-16-2012, 11:20 AM
Hey all,
So I don't expect to lose a lot early on because I have an underpowered army as much as I might just need to learn strategy and such.

Expect to lose often early. Often. It's the nature of the game, unless you happen to have an eidedic memory and can instantly recall every other armies synergies and strategies. Combos will happen that you simply didn't realize could happen. It is what it is.



Are all comer lists the way to go in this game or do people inevitably all gravitate to lists made to assassinate the opposing warcaster/warlock?

Well, for steamrollers you typically bring two lists, so you're probably best off developing two strategies that each work against different things.

theHman
03-16-2012, 02:01 PM
Menoth is one of the factions I hate playing against the most.
For some reason I just can't seem to beat them very often.
They've got a tremendous amount of great synergies and combos that really 'f' other armies up.

With that said, the beauty of warmachine is it really doesn't matter which faction you choose to play with, they're ALL freakin' awesome!

The biggest thing you'll come across is learning what other armies can do to kill you. That's how I lost when I first got started. Just didn't know they could do what they did to kill me. But once they pull their sneaky shenanigan, it becomes much harder to beat me with the same trick.

Best of luck to you and your buddy and welcome the best mini wargame!

DogFog
03-16-2012, 03:10 PM
I'm in your shoes, too, so I hope you don't mind if I jump in and ask some questions.

I used to play 40k, and recently I've really gotten interested in Warmachine/Hordes. On the one hand, I recognize that the two-player box set is an incredible value, but on the other hand, I don't have someone to go in on it with, and the armies that most interest me are (in order): Everblight, Orboros, Cygnar, Khador. So where would you all recommend I start?

vorlauf
03-16-2012, 03:35 PM
I'll be curious to see the answer to the above question. I've been very interested in taking the plunge as well but don't have a lot of money to just start throwing around haphazardly.

ElectricPaladin
03-16-2012, 03:45 PM
There are two important differences between Warmachine and 40k:

1) In Warmachine there are remarkably few units/models that categorically "suck." There are a few that are hard to use, and a few that are currently sub-par in the current environment, edition, and FAQ cycle. However, most models will work pretty well, if used properly.
2) In Warmachine, you don't need to do any customization. Whatever you buy is exactly what it is. This isn't 40k, where if you build and paint a dude with one kind of weapon then you've wasted your time and money if it turns out that that weapon sucks. A trencher is a trencher is a trencher.

In other words, if you like the look/style of a model, buy it. You'll find a way to use it. This means that you really can just "take the plunge," buy what you like, and see what happens. You might not be competitive right away... but then again, who is?

The only thing you really need to worry about is the possibility that you will buy a model that doesn't do what you expect it to do, doesn't work the way you want it to with what you've already got, or turns out to be one of those few models that just doesn't really work at all.

For that, I direct your attention to Battle College (http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/). This is basically the Warmachine/Hordes wiki. Read their faction/model/unit profiles to help you pick your faction, warnoun, and monsters/robots. Battle College hasn't led me astray yet, and I was where you are now about a year ago.

Dyrnwyn
03-16-2012, 04:28 PM
In any case, how competitive is the Protectorate? The one thing I've gotten from reading at various places is that you don't have the same issues of game balance you tend to find in 40K (which is the other game I mostly play). So I don't expect to lose a lot early on because I have an underpowered army as much as I might just need to learn strategy and such.
Menoth's game pretty much revolves around layered buff effects making mostly mediocre jacks and infantry amazing, and telling the other factions 'NO U.' They have access to Purification, which shuts down upkeep spells and animi, so they basically can stop other factions from doing their thing.


Are all comer lists the way to go in this game or do people inevitably all gravitate to lists made to assassinate the opposing warcaster/warlock?
There aren't really 'all comer lists' in the 40k sense in Warmachine. Most models are effective, and all warjacks/warbeasts have access to power attacks which make them able to field multiple roles - Trample lets them stomp hordes of infantry, throws and slams let them deal with other jacks. What you will find is that there are three primary strategies - attrition, assassination, and scenario. Attrition and assassination are exactly what they sound like - outlast an opponent's army and grind him into the dirt, or dash in and end the game in a quick kill respectively. Scenario is about being able to move up and claim points, or forcing enemies away. In tournaments, a scenario victory is worth more than a caster kill, but caster kill is easier. Different casters are good at different things.


I'm in your shoes, too, so I hope you don't mind if I jump in and ask some questions.

I used to play 40k, and recently I've really gotten interested in Warmachine/Hordes. On the one hand, I recognize that the two-player box set is an incredible value, but on the other hand, I don't have someone to go in on it with, and the armies that most interest me are (in order): Everblight, Orboros, Cygnar, Khador. So where would you all recommend I start?
If you have no one who is currently interested, the tw0-player box might be better, as then you can have two forces so you can loan one to a prospective opponent. Personally, I'd look into the rulebooks and talk up your friends. Convince them to try it - the battleboxes are only $50, and that's not much of an investment if they're already into 40k or WFB. If you suceed in talking them into trying it, and you like Everblight, buy the Everblight battlebox. All the current edition battleboxes come with quickstart rules which give you the core mechanics for Warmachine and the rules governing your warlock/warbeasts or warcaster/warjacks, as well as the stats for the other battleboxes for Warmachine or Hordes respectively. You won't need the full rulebook until you start moving beyond the intro games with battleboxes and start including units, cavalry or solos.

herigonz
03-18-2012, 03:43 PM
Thanks for all the quality advice. I definitely figured I'd lose more often than not at the beginning, albeit not for the combo reason specifically. I've been watching battlereports here and there online (I tend to just fire them up while I paint mini's) so hopefully that will help soften the lack of knowledge.

Having said that, I know I'm more likely to learn when it's my face that gets stomped in rather than some random dude on teh internetz.

It is refreshing to know that what I buy to build is what I buy to build. I think there is some interchangeability with some of the jacks (universally there are heavy jacks and light jacks I guess). Is it possible to just buy the arms to make one type of heavy mech another or is generally a dumb idea? I assume the light jack arms don't look right if I tried putting them on a heavy jack.

I think the fact that a battlebox is only $50 (less on the discounters) is great. Everywhere I go, I hear about how you always get a relatively great caster and/or jacks in those boxes. I personally bought the 2 person battle box initially because even if I didn't expand, it provided 2 equal forces to play. Definitely getting a friend to go in on it makes it better. I liked the fluff behind Cygnar but gravatated to Menoth in the end.

When I think that an entire starter set is worth the same cost of a single Assault Marine Squad, it's hard to argue against giving this game a go.

ElectricPaladin
03-18-2012, 06:23 PM
It is refreshing to know that what I buy to build is what I buy to build. I think there is some interchangeability with some of the jacks (universally there are heavy jacks and light jacks I guess). Is it possible to just buy the arms to make one type of heavy mech another or is generally a dumb idea? I assume the light jack arms don't look right if I tried putting them on a heavy jack.


The plastic 'jack kit comes with all the arms for all its factions 'jacks of that chasis. So the "Cygnar Heavy" box includes everything you need for the Ironclad, Cyclone, and Defender, but not the Hammersmith or Centurion, for example. You can magnetize them pretty easily, if you want - I've seen it before.

herigonz
03-18-2012, 06:56 PM
Ah that makes more sense. I thought that since everything else was sold in individual kits that the heavy jacks would all be too but it does seem like the plastic kit is what the magnetizing is meant to help with.

Do people normally field multiple jacks of the same type? Or I guess does it vary from strategy to strategy? I have to admit that I've seen the most for Khador so their warjacks are the ones I'm most familiar with.

Is the heavy warjack "plastic" kit actually plastic or resin like the other stuff?

ElectricPaladin
03-19-2012, 10:14 AM
Do people normally field multiple jacks of the same type? Or I guess does it vary from strategy to strategy? I have to admit that I've seen the most for Khador so their warjacks are the ones I'm most familiar with.

Frequently, but not always. It depends on the faction, the 'caster, and the list.


Is the heavy warjack "plastic" kit actually plastic or resin like the other stuff?

It is the plastic/resin hybrid often called "ambrosia." In other words, an excellent modeling material.

muffinman331
03-19-2012, 03:11 PM
Do people normally field multiple jacks of the same type? Or I guess does it vary from strategy to strategy? I have to admit that I've seen the most for Khador so their warjacks are the ones I'm most familiar with.


I would recommend not buying a duplicate of anything until you've decided you really like it or want it for a particular build. for most factions, there are major differences between each 'jack or 'beast, and the first one you try might not be one you want several of. there are exceptions to that rule of course, but in general you should be trying more different models/units instead of getting several of one kind.

I have been playing for about a year now, and only have one duplicate unit and no duplicates of any Beasts or solos. I enjoy having the flexibility of having multiple types of units on the field instead of the redundancy of having several of the same model.

in the end it's a personal taste thing, and many people argue for duplicates of certain units/jacks/solos.

Thornblood
03-20-2012, 08:50 PM
Heya- to all the guys just starting with Warma-hordes. The Big Khador-Protectorate box is worth so much and saving so much.

However, if you dont want it, most factions for the two compatible games have a starter box of a warcaster or warlock and some warjacks or warbeasts that are quite well matched against the other faction starter boxes. So its really easy to start. They dont however have units of infantry or solo's (single model units) which you can add later, so your early games are very much about your caster and their little band of robots/beasts and how they control them and get the best out of them.

The whole game seems to be about combos and synergies. Bear that in mind.

Also, by replacing your warcaster/warlock with a different one it really changes your army dramatically and it will play in a very different way.

The Hordes game starter boxes are likely to be replaced by new plasticy-resin ones in the next few months if you want to hold off.

Drakkan Vael
03-21-2012, 02:18 AM
Do people normally field multiple jacks of the same type? Or I guess does it vary from strategy to strategy? I have to admit that I've seen the most for Khador so their warjacks are the ones I'm most familiar with.

If you are going to play with Menoth you might want to add a second Paladin and maybe two or three Vassal Mechanics sooner or later, but for now I'd follow muffinman331's advice and try as many different 'jacks and units as you like.

The two-player box is really an excellent choice for starting the game. All you will need in addition is som templates.

I still use both heavies, the Cinerators and Kreoss in quite a few games and plan to do so for at least a while (and quite frequently loose to some new trick one of my opponents discovered among the myriad of casters).

ersatzgnomes
03-21-2012, 07:29 PM
once you get the hang of it, protectorate can be pretty balls out ridiculous

ersatzgnomes
03-21-2012, 07:34 PM
it's really faction based, when I played cryx I used to run a pair of slayers with great regularity, but I know some people who would only ever use 1 of a given jack just for flavor or variety

thebarbalag
03-21-2012, 08:35 PM
A second to the above comments. My own experience...

Menoth is my primary Warmachine Army. There are a few pieces that should be your first steps after the Two-Player Battle Box:

Choir of Menoth - your 'jack buffing unit, makes them untouchable by ranged attacks, boosts their mediocre stats into absurdity (that cheap Crusader in your battlebox is suddenly terrifying with +2 Attack and Damage, and that Repenter that couldn't hit anything will now mow down half a unit in a single flamethrower shot)...and don't forget, your Vanquisher's blast damage gets the +2 after halving its initial POW.

Covenant of Menoth - you may not use it every game, but you will never regret bringing it - prevents knockdown, stops enemy spell-casting, incredibly annoying to try to kill for your enemy.

Temple Flameguard - Menoth has a lot of great units, but this one will probably find its way into more lists than any other - reach, combined melee, shield wall - this unit is incredibly versatile. The unit attachment is also very useful.

After that, play, play, play - with the same Warcaster. Kreoss isn't flashy, he isn't tricky, he has a simple but devastatingly powerful feat, a solid spell list, and can hold his own in melee (if he must). Give yourself several games with him before switching to a new Warcaster. Changing this piece of your army and nothing else will give you a completely different play experience. This, I think, is one of the biggest differences between Warmachine and 40K.

As for Legion...well, that's a favorite Hordes faction of mine as well. If nobody wants to go in on a Two-Player box with you, don't fret. The single player battleboxes are still a good deal, and the Legion box is no exception. Lylyth is a great starting caster, and in battlebox-level games, your opponents will come to loathe your Carnivean, which can not only tear up any heavy in the game, but is a pain to get rid of as well.

Moving on from the Battlebox, I highly recommend picking up a Shepherd and a Forsaken. Legion is much like Menoth in its need to maximize synergies and relying on its beasts...which are phenomenal. Units for Legion are more to taste. If you like Lylyth, you can't go wrong with Striders and Deathstalkers.