Thinking About Tyranids

[Diagnosis Ninja]

So, I got to thinking about Tyranids, and started thinking of daft ways the book could be improved. It's not like I'd be able to do it, but it's fun right?

Anyway, an idea hit me which I figured could be helpful: Give most units the same ability to be taken as troops as the Tervigon. The best way I thought of it was

The biggest complaint I see about tyranids is that the elites slot is too packed up, and you can't take everything you "need". Doing it this way would allow for an effective 3 slots extra, bringing more toys to the table and allow some interesting units to become scoring. Overall, it would improve the versatility of the army, and probably shake them up a little.

Obviously, there would need to be some kind of restriction. 150 points split between 3 units of Termagants would obviously be crazy if it allowed you to take a Carnifex or something. So, it could go something like:

"For every full sized Troops choice you take, you can take a non monstrous creature unit as Troops".

Means you need 27 Warriors/ 60 Genestealers/ 90 hormagaunts or termagants to be able to take 3 extra units, and it can't be "broken" by someone wanting to take 9 Carnifexes (If that kind of thing is ever done :P )

Opinions?

[jifel]

That's actually a pretty good idea. It wouldnt be game breaking and actually supports the fluff by having giant broods. Maybe a clarification that a Termagant squad can't unlock the troops slot for a random unit and then also a Tervigon? Id probably only use it once in a normal army list with a large H gaunt squad and then tack on some Zoeys (those always seem to be that 4th elites choice I want but never can take.)

[Necron_Lord]

Obviously, there would need to be some kind of restriction. 150 points split between 3 units of Termagants would obviously be crazy if it allowed you to take a Carnifex or something. So, it could go something like:

"For every full sized Troops choice you take, you can take a non monstrous creature unit as Troops".

Means you need 27 Warriors/ 60 Genestealers/ 90 hormagaunts or termagants to be able to take 3 extra units, and it can't be "broken" by someone wanting to take 9 Carnifexes (If that kind of thing is ever done :P )

Opinions?

Nid players can legally field 9 Carnifeges (a pun to today's GW blog entry on Carnifexes) right now as they can take 3 broods of 3. Bascially the only units which aren't MCs one would want to take would be in the Elite slot as it is crowded with good units which compete with one another. It might make for a decent house rule.

If anyone on the GW blog is wondering, the plural for rex and lex is reges and leges, so the plural for Carnifex would be Carnifeges and not Carnifices. -ices is the plural ending for words ending in -ix. There, Latin lesson is over.

Upon reflection, Carnifex could have the -ices plural ending if the e preceding the x was short as the plural for codex and judex are codices and judices respectively. I am sure the GW bloggers would lobby hard to say that the final e in Carnifex is short to support their position.

[Ziac45]

The best way to improve the Tyranid book is to go back to using the old tyranid book.

[Emerald Rose Widow]

Nid players can legally field 9 Carnifeges (a pun to today's GW blog entry on Carnifexes) right now as they can take 3 broods of 3. Bascially the only units which aren't MCs one would want to take would be in the Elite slot as it is crowded with good units which compete with one another. It might make for a decent house rule.

If anyone on the GW blog is wondering, the plural for rex and lex is reges and leges, so the plural for Carnifex would be Carnifeges and not Carnifices. -ices is the plural ending for words ending in -ix. There, Latin lesson is over.

Noone actually ever fields such a squad though because it costs an arm and a let to do so. Just basic brood of 3 carnifeges is 480 points, I mean that is no upgrades at all. Ouch.

I wanna run a brood of fexes though one of these days, just to have fun with it, but I doubt I would ever run 9 of them. Sick as that thought would be.

[juliusb]

I like the idea but I might tie the additional slot to specific troops; ie Genestealers-Lictors, Rippers-Venomthropes etc.

[Eupackardia]

The best way to improve the Tyranid book is to go back to using the old tyranid book.

I totally agree.
More versatility, with more units.

I miss those days...

[Warped-Bitz]

I totally agree.
More versatility, with more units.

I miss those days...

QFT, however if you look around you can find some semi viable builds!

[ComradePenguin]

You are playing a dangerous game when you mess with a codex and foc slots. What happens if you start slaughtering your opponents? You will probably have to go back to Cruddace's codex. I think this kind of thing is fine when playing with friends, but I sincerely doubt you will get a pick-up opponent to agree to these rules shifts.

[Diagnosis Ninja]

Well, in that case, I'm sure it could be extended to cover all codexes as a Force Organisation mod for a scenario.

[Soups]

On a certain Pink Poster's Blog, Abusepuppy had a remake of the Nid codex as a pet project, for reason's unknown.

One good idea he had (besides some re-costing on units) was to make the synapse do things besides let the nids play. Aura's that hand out a universal special rule, or give immunity to force weapons, or just normal instant death (already covered I see). I do think thinking up of a way for a synapse biomorph to act like Marks of Chaos would be a great way to tweak the codex without having too much in the way rules conflict, or cries of OP.

Personally, I think the only over-costed unit in the codex is Carnifex and Tyranofex.

[Inquiring M1nd]

I'm not certain this would be a good fix. It is true, we have a loaded elites section, which could be seen as a testament to the Hive Mind's versatility. These units are specialists, and primarily valued for their vehicle-busting abilities, or unique deployment matched with combat expertise. There are alternative answers to both of these problems, some are found in the fast attack slot (harpies, Raveners) or the heavy support slot (pick a monstrous creature).

I have felt routinely let-down by my elite tank hunters, but pleasantly surprised by my Trygon, Genestealers, and Raveners. What they don't have in ranged ability, they make up for in movement. Granted, relying solely on CC to answer tanks makes fast vehicles a source of ulcers in the digestion pool, so don't. Just keep in mind the entire codex when drawing up an army and the roles/ redundancy covered, and you'll be in decent shape.

[Mystery.Shadow]

The best way to improve the Tyranid book is to go back to using the old tyranid book.

Nobody would let us go back, so let's hope for a bright future!

Help us Obi Wan Phil Kelly. You're our only hope!

[Suffokate]

Nobody would let us go back, so let's hope for a bright future!

Help us Obi Wan Phil Kelly. You're our only hope!

I would much rather have Matt Ward on the Nid book to get some hilariously named war gear and units, and to finally be the cool kid on the block with a Ward dex.

[Kevlarshark]

How about a new Hive tyrant ability "adaptive swarm" one elite or heavy can be selected as a troops choice? Orks already have an ability like this with their Warboss and Nobs or Mekboy and dreds.

Allow Alpha Warrior to select a spore pod.

I would like to see venomthropes as a 0-3 independent character type choice. So you could select up to 3 and split them up to attach them to squads (a bit like wolf guard).

Pyrovores need to shoot like a hellhound.

It would be nice to give the t-fex a bit of a shooting accuracy boost too...I am not asking for +1BS (doesn't feel characterful enough) how about allowing it to re-roll 1s when within synapse range?

I could see Synapse functioning more like IG orders in the next codex giving selected benefit to the unit within range, Synapse is all stick and no carrot at the moment.

[Osiris]

The first thing that's wrong with the Tyranid book is the internal balance, or the lack thereof. Some things are awesome for their points, others are...not. Some upgrades are a steal while others provide almost zero function (I'm looking at you TL-Deathspitters). My list of changes are as follows:
-Elite slots are super-full, no joke. Move Hive Guard to heavy support where they belong.
-Some things need point cost reduction. Carnifex at 130-140 range, Harpy to about 130 as well. T-fex could really be about 225 W/ rupture cannon (not 265).
-Pyrovore just needs...help. Good idea, poor implementation. Maybe have their death explosion be automatic, AP3, and have them not give up a KP? (maybe I've been playing too much Warmachine...)
-Change SitW to perils on doubles. This will make GK think once in a while.
-Allow lictors to either charge or shoot when they arrive. Similar to vanguard vets.
-Some other stuff like upgrade costs need tweaking and/or removing. Once again, I'm looking at you TL-Deathspitters...

The reason for these changes is not to just "buffnidsplz", it's to patch what is wrong with the book. The carnifex change is obvious, people may actually take them if the were appropriately priced, same for the Harpy and T-fex. And with the HG in the support slots you A) can get other overlooked support units in the elite section and, B ) actually have to think about what goes into your HS other than MOAR TRYGONS!

Discuss.