Help with a WAAC power gamer list (GK, course)

[superhappyrobot]

I've built the following list 1850 out of bits and such from my bit box, and I'm wondering what weaknesses it has, and tactics to address them:


Draigo

Coteaz

10 Paladins
Apothecary w/ Halberd
Brotherhood Banner
MC Psycannon w/ Hammer
MC Psycannon w/ Halberd
Psycannon w/ Hammer
Psycannon w/ Halberd
Warding Stave
Hammer
Halberd
Sword

3 Warrior Henchmen in a Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo

3 Warrior Henchmen in a Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo

3 Warrior Henchmen in a Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo

3 Warrior Henchmen in a Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo

3 Warrior Henchmen in a Razorback w/ Psybolt Ammo

Psyfleman Dread

Psyfleman Dread

Psyfleman Dread

To take this list to 2000 points, I'd add a Vindicare Assassin and Searchlights on the Razorbacks. So what would this struggle against, and how can I mitigate those struggles?

[Rahakanji]

You don't have much Psy defense (sure the reinforced aegis but that alone isn't reliabel). Your Paladins without nades aren't so reliable after all, ie Thunderhammer-termis etc. Maybe swap Draigo for an Liby or normal Grandmaster! So on my first thoughts, but it looks pretty reliable after all!!

[thecactusman17]

drop draigo, take a GM or Libby, use leftovers to market the dreads venerable. Otherwise, this list falls apart by killing the vehicles. Paladins are easily avoided on their own and are rarely a factor in most of my games.

[DarkLink]

3 man Acolyte squad in razorbacks are effectively worthless for anything other than claiming objectives. The only problem your opponent has with this list is avoiding assault with Driago. It's not hard for a decent, competitive army to open up a couple razorbacks and kill 3 guardsmen. One to sit on your home objective is ok, but the rest of your units need to be able to do something useful.

Don't bother with a venerable upgrade, either. Too many points, and you're already throwing points into a massive deathstar. Not worth it. In fact, I've found little reason to take a third Dreadnought. Psyrifle Dreads are almost completely one-dimensional. What they do is very useful, but you only need a little bit of it and overloading on it makes this already one-dimensional list even more so.


This list can only do three things: Pop Rhinos from 48", scare people with Driago and friends, and claim objectives so long as you don't have to fight to contest them. Driago and friends are tricky to deal with, but other than that it's a reasonable task for a quality competitive list to beat.

Any one of the three elements in the list, individually, is good. Spamming just runs into the problem of diminishing returns when you should be spending those points to make the list more three-dimensional.


Oh, and drop the apothecary. Way overpriced. Again, diminishing returns. I've never taken the apothecary upgrade, and I've never lost a Paladin to small arms fire. The stuff that kills Paladins is the stuff that ignores FNP anyways.


You don't have much Psy defense (sure the reinforced aegis but that alone isn't reliabel).

Reinforced Aegis is more than enough. Psychic hoods are nice if you're facing Eldar or Blood Angels, since they have a lot of buffing psychic powers, but it is not worth ~170pts for a hood. I gave up on Librarians in most lists a long time ago. You're paying a lot of points for a lot of little gimmicks. A Grand Master, Inquisitor Driago or Coteaz is a better buy. I would only ever run a Librarian if I was taking Land Raiders and/or Storm Ravens, because then the cover save is a big thing and you can take advantage of Warp Quake, Might of Titan and the Quickening. Otherwise, skip the Librarian.



Your Paladins without nades aren't so reliable after all, ie Thunderhammer-termis etc.

Grenades or no, 10 Paladins and Driago can kill ~5-6 THSS without the charge before they get to strike. Drigao can laugh off one, the Stave can tank another hit.

Since you can only fit a max of 8 Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader, and footslogging THSS Terminators are no threat to Driago and Friends, there's not much to worry about. And if your opponent takes 2 Land Raiders of Terminators, well, he's spending even more points on his deathstar than you are. I've never seen anyone take that many THSS Terminators in a competitive list anyways.

Even without Grenades, there is very little that can stand up to 10 Paladins and Driago. Grenades just make them effectively impossible to beat in CC, but you're already almost unbeatable. I can't think of anything in particular that can kill Driago and 10 Paladins in CC that can't be mitigated by decent play.



Maybe swap Draigo for an Liby or normal Grandmaster! So on my first thoughts, but it looks pretty reliable after all!!

Take 10 Paladins, and Driago is an auto-include for like a half dozen reasons. Driago is well worth his points. Coteaz is awesome as well, for his own reasons. Grenades are nice, but as I mentioned not particularly important in a list that already dominates in CC. You get diminishing returns.










To improve the list, I'd pare back a bunch of stuff and build it back up:

Driago
Coteaz
10 Paladins (4 psycannons, Stave, Banner, 2 Master Crafts)
3 Acolytes, Razorback
2 Psyrifle Dreads
Total: 1392

Now, your list lacks a couple things. You're still slow, so throw in either a Dreadknight or a unit of Interceptors. This lets you threaten units like long fangs hidden way off in a corner. I think in this list I would go with Interceptors for their psycannons. That brings us up to 1702 pts.

150pts left doesn't leave us much to work with. We already have a cheap backfield unit to hold objectives and take pot-shots, so we can go with something that brings a bit more firepower while still scoring. Either take some acolytes, or a unit of 5 GKSS in a Rhino with a psycannon.

Alternatively, if you take the Dreadknight with Personal Teleporter and Incinerator, then you can afford a unit of Purifiers. It's 199pts for 5 with 2 psycannons, 2 halberds, 1 hammer and a razorback. You can use the Grand Strategy if needed to make them scoring, and you have a few points left over for miscellaneous upgrades.


So:
Driago
Coteaz
10 Paladins
5 GKSS, Rhino
3 Acolytes, Razorback
10 Interceptors
2 Psyrifle Dreads



or

Driago
Coteaz
5 Purifiers, Razorback
10 Paladins
5 Acolytes, 3 meltaguns, Razorback
Dreadknight
2 Psyrifle Dreads

5 acolytes with 3 meltaguns is still cheap, but now you can actually do something other than hope they don't die. You can use them to scare Land Raider, which works remarkably well, and hurt outflanking units. But they're still cheap enough you can just leave them on an objective, too. Awesome unit, well worth the small points investment for the meltaguns and a few extra bodies.


And BTW, this list is now actually very, very similar to Blackmoor's Driagowing army that's won and placed very highly multiple tournaments here on the west coast. You have a lot more tactical options with this list.


Edit:
And before someone says it, yes, it is worth taking Coteaz with only one Acolyte squad. I do it all the time. In fact, I've been taking Coteaz and a second Xenos Inquisitor with grenades as my HQs lately and only one acolyte unit with meltaguns, and it works very well.