Forge World "pre-heresy" tank crew are finecast

[Regnir]

It kind of blew my mind when I opened the box, but the tank crew are packaged in a clamshell like other Finecast products and upon opening the pack, found that they are definitely Finecast and not any of the resins that I am familiar with seeing from FW( I have a lot of FW crap).

That said, the quality of the tank crew is better than any other FC model I've ever purchased.

[Regnir]

Scratch the quality comment. Lots of hidden bubbles that I hadn't seen upon quick inspection :(

[ChacoStylez]

"Failcost" strikes again!

Sorry to hear about the poor quality of the models. Are you going to try to have their customer service send you new ones?

[eldargal]

It won't actually be Finecast, FW use a variety of resins and Finecast used machines to pour and spin the resin in the mulds. Forge World hand pour. You just got a dodgy cast in a clampack.

[vharing]

I recently got a relic contemptor and difference of the resin was very different than the resin of the termi shoulder pads I got a while ago. The shoulder pads were a much softer resin while the contemptor is almost too stiff to work with. But I am impressed I got done the air bubbles others have been complaining about.

[heretic marine]

not to sure if i am happy or sad that FW is using finecast.

[Regnir]

It won't actually be Finecast, FW use a variety of resins and Finecast used machines to pour and spin the resin in the mulds. Forge World hand pour. You just got a dodgy cast in a clampack.

Perhaps you should buy the model pack and look for yourself. It is very clearly Finecast when you handle it.

I have easily several thousand dollars worth of FW models sitting on the shelves above my desk, and several years experience working with their kits. It's pretty easy to tell the difference in materials when you're working with them. Set side by side with the new Space Wolves Lord on Thunderwolf, it is the exact same material formed in the exact same type of sprue/frame. Not using large block style vents like FW uses for resins.

I'd take some photos, but I've already built the tank crews.

@Vharing: That is fairly normal, as Eldargal said. FW uses a variety of different resins(buy a Heirophant Bio Titan. I believe it includes parts in 3 different resins). The thing that gives the finecast nature away is that the parts are on a sprue/frame rather than just having large block style vents hangning off of the pieces.

[eldargal]

Forge World tested some of the techniques used for Finecast (the sprues), but they do not use Finecast resin. This has been brought up repeatedly on the FW Facebook site and always gets the same response.

[Defenestratus]

Forge World tested some of the techniques used for Finecast (the sprues), but they do not use Finecast resin. This has been brought up repeatedly on the FW Facebook site and always gets the same response.

Would you like to say sorry to my good friend Regnir now given the front page evidence to the contrary of what you've stated?

[gendoikari87]

I'm starting to think there's member on here that are working for GW in some capacity as a PR machine.

[Regnir]

Owned.

yeah, I'm pretty floored to see this on what is a really old kit. The kit that I had ordered was essentially a very recent release, so I assumed it was a new thing moving forward.

In that same order that I received the finecast tank crew, all of the other models were standard good old resin.

That said, I'm not convinced Eldargal is a GW PR person so much as I'm concerned that she just feels compelled to get the last word in on anything, hence why I stopped responding.

[BigGrim]

Would you like to say sorry to my good friend Regnir now given the front page evidence to the contrary of what you've stated?

Why should she say sorry? She was going from data provided by Forge World at the time. Now they say something else. It's not Eldargals fault they have changed the info.

[Defenestratus]

Why should she say sorry?

Because she was wrong and insisted she was right even when contradicted by a first hand account.

But don't let me get in the way of your White Knight cosplay.

[gendoikari87]

Owned.

yeah, I'm pretty floored to see this on what is a really old kit. The kit that I had ordered was essentially a very recent release, so I assumed it was a new thing moving forward.

In that same order that I received the finecast tank crew, all of the other models were standard good old resin.

That said, I'm not convinced Eldargal is a GW PR person so much as I'm concerned that she just feels compelled to get the last word in on anything, hence why I stopped responding.

Oh, eldergal is the least of the my suspicions. There's a few more whom are much higher up there on that suspect list.

[warpcrafter]

I"m not surprised. FW isn't gonna go away, they're just gonna sorta go sour. I"m glad I never fell for their racket.

[dewisant]

I have had lots for problems with FW stuff over the years.... Missing parts, huge bubbles, complete miss casts. However, I can't knock there customer service. One email and a few pics and they pop new ones in the post.

[scadugenga]

Because she was wrong and insisted she was right even when contradicted by a first hand account.

But don't let me get in the way of your White Knight cosplay.

So, what---your white knight cosplay somehow trumps BigGrim's? Who isn't even white-knigthing?

Pot, kettle, Defenestratus...

[eldargal]

I'll admit I'm wrong, happily, when someone provides evidence that this ia anything other than what Forge World have said it is. Because that is all I've done here, relay FWs explanation for these kits. They have said, on numerous occassions, they tested some of the Finecast techniques but that they still hand pour and use different resin formula to Finecast.

If someone provides evidence that the chemical composition of these models is identical to Finecast I will gladly concede the point and email FW asking for an explanation.

In the meantime I suggest just treating Defenestratus with polite condescension, the poor chap is obviously still cranky since I pointed out that asking for a model range to match its fluff isnt a 'feminist agenda'. Accusing anyone of agreeing with or defending me of being a 'white knight' is about at his level.:rolleyes:

Edit: In fact Ead from Forge World DID recently confirm they have been using 'Finecast resin' for some smaller parts for a while now, which IS in direct contradition to earlier remarks, so in fact, I was wrong. I'm still not sure why this warrants an apology given that I was simply relaying the information FW had given at the time, but I will apologise for any offense inadvertently caused.

[Regnir]

So, what---your white knight cosplay somehow trumps BigGrim's? Who isn't even white-knigthing?

Pot, kettle, Defenestratus...

I'm not sure that you know what the term "white knight" refers to... Defenestratus most certainly is not filling that role...

[eldargal]

I believe Scadugenga is referring to Defenstratus' defense of you and his demand, on your behalf, of an apology from me.

[Regnir]

I believe Scadugenga is referring to Defenstratus' defense of you and his demand, on your behalf, of an apology from me.

The term would still not be very appropriate, since I am not an actual(alleged) girl. While I'm sure the gender roles could certainly be reversed, the term is almost always used to describe men defending women, hence my misunderstanding.

That aside, there was no offense taken. It's more being told "You don't know what you're looking at and touching" by someone who appears to just be regurgitating marketing gak/trolling, when you can very clearly tell the difference.

I'm glad someone got a kit and thought to take pictures before building the models. Unfortunately, the comments from Ead(I believe) about quality control are kind of lost on me, since the kit I received from FW had about the same quality as any Citadel Finecast kit I've purchased: not un-savable, but definitely more work than it needed to be.

[eldargal]

Your misunderstanding was reasonable in the circumstances I agree, hence my explanation.:) I'm glad you didn't take offense, however I'm still more inclined to trust the comments of one involved in the production process over one basing their opinion on subjective things like touch and appearance. My opinion of FWs customer service has, however, lessened slightly. I mean they quite specifically ruled out using the Finecast resin, stating only that they tested some of the techniques.

Also that 'gak' is from exactly the same source now cited as evidence of what you alleged.

[gendoikari87]

Is this really such a big deal I mean finecast isn't THAT bad. Tech marine box set I built was fairly good, better than the original metal.

[scadugenga]

The term would still not be very appropriate, since I am not an actual(alleged) girl. While I'm sure the gender roles could certainly be reversed, the term is almost always used to describe men defending women, hence my misunderstanding.

Well, to be fair neither you nor he made your gender readily known. :)

Somehow, him acting the "white knight" for another guy makes it more...poignant, almost. :P

[TheStarkLord]

Not to nit pick or sound rude but...
visual and tactile observations are not subjective but objective espeically when try to identify a material. Ask a geologist or chemist. Its a rather crude way of doing things but it counts.
Now the op should have posted pictures so others could varifiy his claims... visually.
Also eldargirl your issue should not be with customerservice but more likely their pr department for clearly not giveing out the proper details.
otherwise good use of what you thought was a proper primary source at the time
i dont think this is a big deal even if they are useing "fincast" resin. Forgeworld still has pretty good quality control and good customer service for when they mess up.

[Regnir]

i dont think this is a big deal even if they are useing "fincast" resin. Forgeworld still has pretty good quality control and good customer service for when they mess up.

Well, my problem with it was that while FW does have pretty good quality control, and I've worked with resin enough times over the years to expect things like warped parts, bubbles, and the like, the "FW Finecast" products looked just about as well QC'd as "Citadel Finecast" was.

All of the parts were covered in the small telltale pockmark bubbles that every single FC kit I've purchased has included. I cannot recall the last time that I've had to actually backfill a bubble in a normal FW kit, and I buy a lot of FW...

So yeah, to me it is a problem. The Finecast kits that I've purchased are "usable", but they require a far greater amount of work to get to a point where they look as good as the old metal version would have out of the blister. My time is important, and GW should recognize that when it comes to product that they're charging a premium for(and hyping up to no end).

[wittdooley]

Well, my problem with it was that while FW does have pretty good quality control, and I've worked with resin enough times over the years to expect things like warped parts, bubbles, and the like, the "FW Finecast" products looked just about as well QC'd as "Citadel Finecast" was.

All of the parts were covered in the small telltale pockmark bubbles that every single FC kit I've purchased has included. I cannot recall the last time that I've had to actually backfill a bubble in a normal FW kit, and I buy a lot of FW...

So yeah, to me it is a problem. The Finecast kits that I've purchased are "usable", but they require a far greater amount of work to get to a point where they look as good as the old metal version would have out of the blister. My time is important, and GW should recognize that when it comes to product that they're charging a premium for(and hyping up to no end).

So, if we work with the assumption that FW QC is better than standard GW Fincecast QC, is it possible that there is an inherent flaw with the Finecast resin that makes it more prone to bubbling?

Seems like this may be the case. Can anyone with better knowledge of the actual resin being used speak to that? Is the material more porous and therefore more prone to bubbling?

[Regnir]

So, if we work with the assumption that FW QC is better than standard GW Fincecast QC, is it possible that there is an inherent flaw with the Finecast resin that makes it more prone to bubbling?

Seems like this may be the case. Can anyone with better knowledge of the actual resin being used speak to that? Is the material more porous and therefore more prone to bubbling?

yeah, I dunno. I do a fair amount of resin casting at home, but I've never worked with a resin that can be spin-cast, and I've only spin cast metal once in my life when I almost accepted a job working IT for a company that makes fishing equipment.

I'm sure it has something to do with the difference in viscosity or density between molten metal and liquid resin not quite forcing all of the bubbles out as it spins. if that were the case, I'm not sure what they could do to improve the process?

Clearly just spin it faster. Faster is always an acceptable answer. ;)

[wittdooley]

yeah, I dunno. I do a fair amount of resin casting at home, but I've never worked with a resin that can be spin-cast, and I've only spin cast metal once in my life when I almost accepted a job working IT for a company that makes fishing equipment.

I'm sure it has something to do with the difference in viscosity or density between molten metal and liquid resin not quite forcing all of the bubbles out as it spins. if that were the case, I'm not sure what they could do to improve the process?

Clearly just spin it faster. Faster is always an acceptable answer. ;)

So....paint the machines red.

[Big Jim]

I wonder if the World Eaters upgrade set I just ordered will be packaged this way. If it is regular resin or finecast it does not matter to me, there are always some minor issues that need addressing with FW.

[Chuck777]

I think its just the same packaging, rather than actually being fine cast. For pieces as fragile as Forgeworld's stuff, I always found it shocking that they would willingly package their products in plastic bags.

[Lady Fenris]

I really hope they don't switch to the finecast material. I prefer their slightly more rigid material.

However, I would love to see it become easier to get fiencast peices. I am in love with the gorgeous Dreadnoughts that they keep putting out, and being able to get my hands on one easier would be a godsend!

[Deadestdai]

Please no FW finecast.... it would make me consider buying from illegitimate even moreso.

But if not, then I'd love to see FW products in better packaging, though thus far, their postal boxing hasn't exactly been bad or anything.

[troglodytesrus]

FW resin is tricky to work with sometimes. Fix the quality issues of GW finecast and I wouldn't mind.

[Lord Nefarius]

wasn't it just a matter of time until fw switches over to finecast. going by the rumours and the policy of fw more and more promoting their models to be used in regular 40k finecast was to expect...

[TheStarkLord]

well going on a limb here from my limited knowledge of resin. since its a two part mixture (right?). is it possible that it could have density abnormalities during pouring which could cause irregular air bubbling in the mold while spinning?
if this is the case it could be partially solved by better premixing of the resin before pouring into the mold.

or ... just thought of this the mold surface conditions could be causing air to "stick" during spinning. in which case i guess cleaning the mold on a more regular basis or lining them with something might do the trick?

of course i know basically nothing about resin so just assume i'm wrong here and just throwing thoughts to the wind :)

best answer i think is to paint the centrifuge red and shake it at the same time, because we all know how good an idea it is to shake a centrifuge while its spinning:D

[The Ghost]

Well, my problem with it was that while FW does have pretty good quality control, and I've worked with resin enough times over the years to expect things like warped parts, bubbles, and the like, the "FW Finecast" products looked just about as well QC'd as "Citadel Finecast" was.

All of the parts were covered in the small telltale pockmark bubbles that every single FC kit I've purchased has included. I cannot recall the last time that I've had to actually backfill a bubble in a normal FW kit, and I buy a lot of FW...

So yeah, to me it is a problem. The Finecast kits that I've purchased are "usable", but they require a far greater amount of work to get to a point where they look as good as the old metal version would have out of the blister. My time is important, and GW should recognize that when it comes to product that they're charging a premium for(and hyping up to no end).

You sir must be blessed with good luck. Of my last 10 forgeworld purchases half of them were miscast (vents must give forgeworld nightmares). I understand that resin casting isn't perfected yet, but I wish that they could maybe give a quick check on the models before they go out the door. That being said their customer service has always been responsive and helpful. On a completely unrelated note my pre heresy blood angels amount to 1.5 times what I paid for them thanks forgeworld customer service =).

[Regnir]

You sir must be blessed with good luck. Of my last 10 forgeworld purchases half of them were miscast (vents must give forgeworld nightmares). I understand that resin casting isn't perfected yet, but I wish that they could maybe give a quick check on the models before they go out the door. That being said their customer service has always been responsive and helpful. On a completely unrelated note my pre heresy blood angels amount to 1.5 times what I paid for them thanks forgeworld customer service =).

Hmm, that sucks. I am currently working with roughly 40 MK3 marine kits, a bunch of the weapon kits for them, 3 MK1 rhinos, 1 Land Raider proteus, and 3 contemptors. Of all of the kits, only the proteus had any visible miscastings.

That said, I've found that one persons idea of a miscast is often times not the same as another. For instance, I do not consider a "mould slip" miscast unless it cannot easily be fixed by scraping, in the same way that one would fix a mould line. The last kit that I've had this happen on was my Warhound, which was about six years ago. I expected something along these lines on my Reaver, and had zero of them.