Wolves without Long Fangs

[Ramzus]

Hey everyone, I was just wondering if it is sensible to make a competitive SW army without using Long Fangs? I find it very difficult to match their efficiency, however I have minimized my use of them in a current army list that I have been toying with and only run one squad of them, and it seems to do alright. I am a little bit skeptical about posting the list though, as it is the one I plan on bringing to WarGamesCon this summer. I just wanted to know your thoughts on a SW army with minimal/no long fangs.

[Chumbalaya]

It's doable, but you usually need a good reason not to. Fangs provide great firepower for a low cost and really help make up for the lack of heavy weapons in your other slots.

If you have a fully mechanized army, Fangs can be an obvious target for anti-infantry fire, so fielding more tanks would be a better call. Fangs can't fire on the move unless you bring Logan along, so you may want to add tanks so you can shoot on the move.

Really can't make a call without the context of your list.

[Ramzus]

Thank you for your response!

My list is pretty mech heavy, so I like the imput of more tanks, being able to move and shoot. Definately sounds like and advantage over having to walk the fangs on.

[ragnarcissist]

yeah ive tried this with drop podding everything, it works about as well as youd expect. the great thing about our codex is that there are soooooooo many different things we can do, from fully meched up to footlslogging to the cavalry charge. we dont need to spam units to win games (not a tournament player fyi) and its much funner to make unique fluffy lists. long fangs ARE great but rhino rush can be just as effective

[chipstar1]

I guess you could replace them with predators if you wanted more tanks.

[uatu13]

I rarely use longfangs when I play my wolves. I tried using 3 squads last game, all with ML's, and they didn't perform very well (which is usually what I find). I generally take vindicators and landraiders with my wolves to give them some much needed low AP weapons. The problem I always have with the longfangs is that there aren't any ablative wounds, once you start taking saves you're either losing the pack leader or heavy weapons. Not to mention I suck at passing marine saves :D

[TheSustainableCenter]

You can always go for cheap predators. No where near as effective, but it's the only real substitute in a SW heavy slot.

[islyfe]

My cousin refuses to use long fangs as well and usually brings two dakka preds in most of his lists. 85pts for for 3 heavy weapons is a steal.

[Vanchet]

If there's no long fangs I'd recommend squads of grey hunters with Las razorbacks to make up the anti tank

My fave idea is a las/plas back with 5 greyhunters with a plasmagun an a wolf guard with a combi plasma (makes 6 plasma shots-lets see what can hold gainst that)

[Ramzus]

I think I lean more towards the rhino rush. I have two razorbacks in the list as well, but i just don't really like the idea of having 5 strong units, I like having a full 10 man squad, it just seems more useful to me.

[newtoncain]

SW w/o 3 x LF squads, the sky is falling, the sky is falling.:eek:

[WodenMHC]

Running them without Long Fangs is entirely possible - They are a fantastic near auto-include, but with a little list building foresight you can compensate for the loss of not having them. Of course, they are the go-to points-effective solution to long range firepower, with additional benefits that other options don't provide.

I'd probably lean toward a faster Wolf list without their support - Mech everyone up or Drop Pod them, and focus on the 12" firefight, which Wolves are entirely able to win. I do agree with the cheap Predator suggestion - fill out heavy support with 3 Preds, nothing on them except Dozer Blades, and have them make an AV13 wall for the Rhinos behind them.

While I don't mean to generalize, a few games without the Long Fangs might in fact make for my dynamic and faster paced games, since it removes the crutch of knowing you have 48" support.

[Father]

Didn't read the whole thread, but yes, you can do without the Fangs, but the only time you should do so is if you are running pure mech.

[slopike]

Though Long Fangs are indeed useful, you can definitely do well without them.

I know this is just my experience, but I took an all mobile wolf list to a tourney (mix of a land raider, dakka preds, thunderwolves, rhinos, and fenrisians to screen) and did well. Won 2 games and tied my third.

[bethor]

My buddy has been toying with the no fang idea as well. He runs a pod/rhino/razor/raider combo. Razor hang back, pods drop in the enemy zone, raiders rush accros, and rhino rush or reserve as needed.

[newtoncain]

Didn't read the whole thread, but yes, you can do without the Fangs, but the only time you should do so is if you are running pure mech.



But when you run LFs, don't you always buy a Razorback for them anyways. 200pts for 5 x ML + TLHB.:eek:

[Marshal_Wilhelm]

Wolves have access to Rifledreads and Typhoons, which are proven winners for C:SM.
As you are already mech-heavy, these add even more AV, which further saturates your opponents ability to deal with the AV.

In such a case, even an AutoLas Pred, or Dakka Pred, has the gap lessened between them and the feared Missile Fangs. Missile Fangs are plain amazing, especially in Foot or Hybrid lists. But the heavier into AV you go, the less 'bad' the 'lesser' options become.

If you want a change from a proven unit, I say go for it ;)

[Phoibos]

It all depends on which roles the LFs fill in your list. Obviously you should have a good mixture of both anti-armor and anti-infantry units, but without your list it is hard to give you advice. You have to figure out what your list lacks when you take the LFs out.

In general Wolves are definitely playable without Longfangs. I have had some success with a mech list, which basically consisted of GHs in Rhinos, Dreads and Tanks. For a while I even pulled off a foot-slooging horde kind of army, which was not the most competetive thing ever but a very fun thing to play.

[Forrix]

Long fangs fill a deffinate niche in our lists for the most part and unless you really have a reason to leave them at home they are probably your best bet. That being said if you want to keep your whole army mobile drop pods are an ok choice a couple razorbacks can provide some lazcannon and a small squad to get objectives with or even a land raider with grey hunters can be very dangerous. When i played without long fangs i used lots of mech with landspeeder typhoons to provide some heavy weapons and a pair of wolf scout units with meltas to hunt tanks sitting back in the corner

[Ramzus]

Basically my list is:
5 squads of GH's in rhinos
1 5 man squad of gh's in a TLL R-back
1 squad of long fangs plus WG with Cyclone missiles and lasplas rback
runepriest
2 ACLC preds
and a unit of scouts with melta bombs

so far I am 9-0 playing in local tournaments, but that doesn't say much. there are WG in all of the GH squads... I have the one unit of fangs just because for tournament play I didn't want to not have them. I mostly didn't want to spam LFs.

[dabral]

I run in a 2k list 3 drop pods and 3 grey hunter units on foot, i believe that long fangs are the only really good long range option that wolves have for their points cost. They make up for the mid to short range game that wolves excel at.

[wolflold]

You can replace the Long Fangs with Wolf scouts! I myself run 1 unit Long Fangs, 1 unit scouts, 1 lascannon dreadnought and 2 las/plas razorbacks with grey hunters for long ranged anti-tank. 2 rhino's with grey hunters, 1 rune priest with living lightnig (shooting out of a rhino is great with unlimited range :D), Lord on Thunder wolf and thunder wolf calv. to fill in the rest. The rhino grey hunters and thunder wolves are anti tank and infantry. Works fine for me!

Just make a list that seems fun to you, play a lot and you know the strenght of your army wich makes you win the battle! Also make a build know one seen before and you'll catch them of guard, everyone expects the 'standard' lists, so if you make something completly different they don't know what to do or expect!

[Lord Severus]

You can make a viable army without fangs, but they definately are a super unit for their cost.

[hippsman]

Goatboy just posted an article on the main page where he went to a tourney without taking Long fangs and did fairly well. Check it out.

[Tiberian]

very interesting..........

[AwesomeWolf]

I have a soft spot for the Vindicator. In a mech heavy army, a Vindie or two can present some really hard choices for your opponent's target priority. Yeah, they do suffer from being easily neutralized with a spot of bad luck, but they can also ruin just about anything in the game. And when you are pushing tow of them forward with several Rhinos full of Grey Hunters, it is a big psychological advantage.

Plus, I've found the siege shields and resulting ability to move them with total disregard for difficult/dangerous terrain can surprise opponents as they maneuver in unexpected ways.