Quick Cover Save Question

[Demonus]

So this came up in a game yesterday. A Razor Back is firing at a single character through a squad of guys.


XX
XX
o
o o o o


L



x= razorback
o= squad
L= librarian

Razorback hit and I went to make a cover save since firing through a squad usually gives a cover save to the squad fired at. I was told the Razorback's gun is taller than the squad, so no cover save.

Is this correct, or did I just happen to get a bum deal on this? (as it turns out, the librarian died from the shot, and had he not died, he could have single handedly shifted the battle warprifting the squad+razorback, and engaging them in hand to hand the following turn)

[Kawauso]

Well, you draw line of sight from the weapon on a vehicle, so...

Staring down the barrel of the Razorback's weapon, was the Librarian obscured at least 50% by the models in the squad that were between them? True LoS should keep things of this nature pretty straightforward. The game isn't happening in 2D space, remember. :)

[SeattleDV8]

Well, you draw line of sight from the weapon on a vehicle, so...

Staring down the barrel of the Razorback's weapon, was the Librarian obscured at least 50% by the models in the squad that were between them? True LoS should keep things of this nature pretty straightforward. The game isn't happening in 2D space, remember. :)
Not quite, the Librarian is not a monstrous creature or a vehicle, he doesn't have to be 50% obscured.
If any part of the model is obscured from the LOS of the shooter the model is in cover.
Also even if that Razorback could see all the model did the LOS run though the unit?
By running a line from the top of each model of the intervening unit did the LOS from the gun pass though that space?
If so you get cover, if not...well no.

[dannyat2460]

pg 22 brb

firing through units or area terain.

If a model fires through the gaps between elements of area terain (such as tho trees in a wood) or through the gaps between models models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visable to the firer. Note that this does NOT apply if the shots go over the area terain or the unit rather than through it

As such and from personal experience the razor back is way taller than the squad making it a clear shot over a unit that is that close to the tank so no cover unless he goes to ground

[Kawauso]

Not quite, the Librarian is not a monstrous creature or a vehicle, he doesn't have to be 50% obscured.
If any part of the model is obscured from the LOS of the shooter the model is in cover.


The 50% rule applies to units that aren't monstrous creatures, too. Being that he's a single-model unit (in this instance), well...he has to be 50% obscured to get cover, or else be inside area terrain.

[thecactusman17]

Drawing direct LOS from the vehicle weapon, were the shots going between models or through th e elements of an intervening terrain piece? If so, a cover save is granted. If the gun was placed above the intervening unit, then it likely didn't allow a cover save.

[SeattleDV8]

The 50% rule applies to units that aren't monstrous creatures, too. Being that he's a single-model unit (in this instance), well...he has to be 50% obscured to get cover, or else be inside area terrain.
Well thats an....interesting misread of the rule.

BRB pg. 21
When any part of the target model's body (as defined on page 16) is obscured from the point of view of the firer, the target model is in cover.
BRB pg. 22
If half or more of the models in the target unit are in cover, the entire unit is deemed to be in cover....

The model (non-vehicle & non-monstrous ) does not have to be 50% obscured.
Any obscurement will grant it cover.
A single model unit is always in cover if the model is in cover because 'one half or more' of the models in the unit are in cover.

[thecactusman17]

Well thats an....interesting misread of the rule.

BRB pg. 21
BRB pg. 22

The model (non-vehicle & non-monstrous ) does not have to be 50% obscured.
Any obscurement will grant it cover.
A single model unit is always in cover if the model is in cover because 'one half or more' of the models in the unit are in cover.

Thanks, I didn't realize how general that rule was! That's a great help for my dark Eldar and their raised transports!

[Kawauso]

Well thats an....interesting misread of the rule.

BRB pg. 21


Son of a *****. :(
Guess I was getting the 50% of the unit bit mixed in with that...

Well, time to eat a slice of humble pie.

[SeattleDV8]

No problem, glad to be helpful.

[Nosmo75]

"pg 22 brb

firing through units or area terain.

If a model fires through the gaps between elements of area terain (such as tho trees in a wood) or through the gaps between models models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover, even if it is completely visable to the firer. Note that this does NOT apply if the shots go over the area terain or the unit rather than through it"


"BRB pg. 21
Quote:
When any part of the target model's body (as defined on page 16) is obscured from the point of view of the firer, the target model is in cover.
BRB pg. 22
Quote:
If half or more of the models in the target unit are in cover, the entire unit is deemed to be in cover....
The model (non-vehicle & non-monstrous ) does not have to be 50% obscured.
Any obscurement will grant it cover.
A single model unit is always in cover if the model is in cover because 'one half or more' of the models in the unit are in cover."

I learnt two new things today! xD

[Demonus]

Makes sense. I didnt get behind the razorback to see if any part of him was covered. Weve always played that if a unit was between the firer and the target, they got a cover save (50% covered if vehicle/MC).

guess next time Ill climb back there and take a look :)

cheers.

[Dorsai]

I know that in my local group it LOS is always determined by using the weapon position. So I love having my Vendettas high on their stands. Lets me shoot over friendly tanks and infantry. As to the cover, it is often solved with a dice roll or compromise. Say a 5+ or 6+ depending on how much of the model may be seen. Of course we are all pretty good friends so it does make it easier to resolve disputes.

Without an actual photo of how it was actually sitting, can't really say if he would get a save or not. I might be willing to allow a 5+, but never a 4+ from the way you have it laid out.