Dreadnoughts: vehicle or infantry tweaked stats

[vulkan_tu'shaun]

Hi guys, no idea if this has been discussed before and if it has i cant find it. I want to know where you all stand on Dreadnought stats. I personally think they should be like the Tau crisis suit teams, with wounds and stuff. My dreadnoughts get blasted far too quickly for my liking as people see them and instantly think BIG MACHINE NEEDS KILLING.

I ask because with a revamp of the space marine codex on the horizon i was thinking of taking it to them and asking for it to be changed, i know its a long shot but hey if you don't ask you don't get!

(sorry if this has already been discussed as well)

[celestialatc]

I don't think that should be like Crisis suits. If people are killing your dreadnoughts quickly you probably need to change your strategy. Use them to draw the big guns out and then make them pay for ignoring your other units.

I play Grey Knights and I usually have two to three dreadnoughts and I usually only lose one but I make them pay for ignore my other units.

There is no needs to make dreadnoughts anything but vehicles, they are awesome the way they are. If you wants something like Crisis Suits you can use terminators.

[SotonShades]

I agree with celestialatc. I'm running a list with 6 dreadnoughts in at the moment (got to love the Master of the Forge for that... he's useless for everything else though...) and it's very rare I don't have at least 2 still kicking at the end of turn 7. Most of the time I still have 4 going strong, especially if there is actually the 25% of the board covered in terrain that the rulebook suggests. If you only have one, and it's the only killy vehicle in your army (drop pods, rhinos and even razorbacks really aren't killy per se) then it will attract a lot of attention in the first couple of turns and will die. That said, but a single wraithlord at T8 in a footslogging eldar list and the same thing will happen, and they are generally much harder to see off than a dred.

I'd also agree that there is no reason to make them some sort of monstrous creature. They are a vehicle, so saves and wound's wouldn't make sense. Partly because losing wounds doesn't make a monstrous creature less effective until you kill it, where as damaging a vehicle can with weapon destroyed and immobilisation results.

More over, GW won't do it. Even assuming that it wasn't all ready written into the 6th ed. rulebook (which it will have to be by now for a release this year), how many codicies have dreadnoughts or other walkers? Actually, it's much quicker to count the ones that don't. Not only the Space Marine codex, but all those others would have to be quickly rewritten to change dreadnoughts.

[Wolfshade]

I'd also agree that there is no reason to make them some sort of monstrous creature. They are a vehicle, so saves and wound's wouldn't make sense. Partly because losing wounds doesn't make a monstrous creature less effective until you kill it, where as damaging a vehicle can with weapon destroyed and immobilisation results.

More over, GW won't do it. Even assuming that it wasn't all ready written into the 6th ed. rulebook (which it will have to be by now for a release this year), how many codicies have dreadnoughts or other walkers? Actually, it's much quicker to count the ones that don't. Not only the Space Marine codex, but all those others would have to be quickly rewritten to change dreadnoughts.

Having said all that Wraithlords that have previously been mentioned used to be an Eldar Dreadnoughts and treated as a vehicle.
There is a fine line between when does someone wear armour and when does someone ride in a mechanised walker. Lest we forget Terminator armour is tactical dreadnought armour. Also, dreadnoughts are piloted just as sentinels and dreadknights.
Though I would agree with SotonShades' skeptical view that it would be unlikely to occur

I would say that if your dreads are getting shot to peices then perhaps a change of tactics is in order rather than change of rules.

[Wildeybeast]

Your dreadnoughts are dying too easily and so your solution is to make them more like the T4 crisis suits? :confused:

Honestly, they are supposed to be big clanking hulks of death, they are walking vehciles after all, not mobile but lightly armoured suits. I don't think from either a fluff or rules points of view they need any significant changes. As people have already pointed out, big things will be shot at first, you either need to swallow this and compensate with your other units, or give your opponent more big things to shoot at.

[Demonus]

Im fine with them as vehicles, but could see them with stats similar to Dread Knights.

Glad someone brought up Wraithlords. I sure hope when Eldar get updated, they took a look at these, compare them with DreadKnights, and give them more survivability.

I for one would give up some str/toughness for a 2+/5++ save. Maybe str 7/tou 7 like ctan.

[vulkan_tu'shaun]

perhaps i have worded this wrong or not given enough info. its not that they got shot up so quick all the time, as stated by others i have used them to draw fire away from tac marines and other lowly troops. my ironclad dread takes plenty of fire and seems to deal with it and i have only lost it a few times (love the hulking machines) i just believe that imo they are still living pilots in a vehicle much like crisis suits, with the obvious exception that they are completely useless marines if they got out the dread lol. it was just a thing that many people would like to see in my gaming club.

i would love to see a dread strolling around with same stats but no armour but like T5 W3/4... would be awesome! alas i know GW would never do it but a man can dream lol

BTW thank you for your input here guys

EDIT: by blasted too quickly i mean certain dice rolls end up becoming near enough like ' what was the point of rolling should just say it was instant death lol'

P.S i think the S3 blast radius when they explode should be changed as well to represent the ammo/engines/anything reactive causing more havoc (it is in the future and engines are reactive (tau?)) but again thats just my opinion